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What is the point/purpose of the CO having a "ghost" truck?
I think the OPP driving in unmarked ghost cars is counter to road safety...let alone as some have suggested lessening road safety as a driver has no way to tell if the car pulling them over is a legit Law Enforcement vehicle.
But what could possibly be the purpose of the CO requiring a ghost truck?
Is law enforcement that bad that it must be hidden?
FW
A couple of years ago there was a Min. of Ont . Mining truck running around in our area during the deer hunt . I'm sure he was coping down licence numbers on any vehicles parked along the road side . Ive also been stopped by the MNR in unmarked trucks . If you are legal " NO WORRIES ! "
Glen
Undercover work. I know a CO who goes to truck stops in plain cloth and scruffy looking during hunting season and chat with people to get intel.
I interpret ghost vehicle as one that is marked but "un-manned", hence ghost.
But as to your question. What would I care if they have an un-marked vehicle?
I saw one on the QEW a couple of days ago. I wasn't hunting, fishing or trapping. But I question why every LEO now required unmarked (well black shadow marking on a black vehicle in this case) vehicles. The CO driving was in uniform.
I just question what reasons would predicate this. Same as police now becoming paramilitary organizations vs the once upstanding men that they were.
Seems pretty simple to me: People hide their poaching if they think a CO is watching, and probably wont if they think one isnt.
That's funny...I can count on my palm how many CO'S I've seen while hunting in the last 10 years. Mostly see them while fishing on overpopulated lakes.. ie Simcoe icefishing.
No one is making a compelling argument why law enforcement has to sink to sneaking around. Seems a little dishonest no?
I got pulled over by a ghost truck last year during turkey season. Apparently there were reports of people tresspassing in the area I was hunting. A few quick questions, some hunting chit chat, and I was on my way. I actually passed him going the opposite way, and had no clue it was a CO.....i thought it was OPP. I was kinda happy to see him actually.
S.
Only if you're trying to get away with something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
I have a friend who worked undercover for mnr, no uniform, badge and gun investigated large comercial violations and stings always in unmarked car
Do not get me wrong. I like seeing the CO'S out...I just like seeing them. I think there should be more in fact.
Same as my reasons for dislike of unmarked police cars.
I believe that visible presence deters crime (in the case of road safety it deters speeding, aggressive driving etc increasing road safety).
Hiding in unmarked vehicles does nothing to reduce offences...just to increase revenues.
How does their hiding their identity (a dishonest act) reflect on that comment?Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingfrog
I understand that being visible can be a useful deterrent. I also understand that sometimes it might be useful not to be easily seen as a C.O.
If someone is within the law it should make no difference.
The fact is that many people are not within the law. The best way to deter them is through active & visible patrolling.
I think police resort to unmarked vehicles because they can't patrol at a level that provides an effective deterrent. If the cops are always around it's one thing, but if they're rarely around then patrolling is a poor deterrent. So these unmarked vehicles restore deterrence by making people think the cops could be there at any time.
its the government saving money, they probably think that most people will assume its a cop of some kind and drive slower, safer.
Good points .:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
TD
Law enforcement has to change their ways to keep up with the changing ways of law breakers. I've seen both marked and unmarked vehicle used by C.O.'s. Marked vehicle provide a direct deterrent by being highly visible. Unmarked vehicles allow the officer to get up close to people before they know they are there ...thereby increasing the potential to be right there when an offense is being committed. If the bad guys get to the point that they never know who's in the vehicle approaching them, and therefore tend not to violate.....that helps prevent some violations and maybe save some game.
Law enforcement will change to meet the issues of the day.
I'd be willing to bet that many of us have been monitored by LEO and never knew it..
I can't believe this thread. One of my closest friends and co owner of my hunt camp is a CO. if you knew some of the under cover stuff these guys do you would be amazed. They also have access to the same forensic resources as the police do so if you think you have gotten away with something, many times it comes back to bite you hard. If you have to worry about them then you probably deserve to worry....LoL !
Friend of mine is a retired CO. He said nothing gets your heart pumping like walking into a hunt camp and telling them you're there to seize every 30 calibre rifle for forensic testing.
Was thinking the same, the CO in our camp was under cover for 40 years, the stories he has, there IS a need for undercover / ghost vehicles in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
You roll into a ma and pa retailer you suspect selling licenses after the fact in a marked CO truck, guess who isn't selling you a license...
It's a tool to aid in aspects of the job.
Not to me. I'd rather COs be sneaky then have poachers get away with poaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
I think blasted sabre and others are missing FW's point here . Nobody is denying that undercover ops and ghost cars shouldn't EVER be used but a pro -active approach is prevention and will deter more . Once an animal or fish has been killed it is gone for good and will never ever be harvested legally . Alot of any temptation to cross the line or risk a charge is taken away if da law is visible . Do dope dealers deal in front of a marked car ? Not likely . Will a robber rob a store or bank knowingly if there is a marked car close that they have seen ? . Not likely . I think that is the point FW is trying to make . Just like Friday . MNR was very visible with insignia etc on the side of the chopper cruising low in Burk's Falls area . Alot of folks noticed it and it likely prevented some from taking a adult moose without the proper tag in the last two days or leaving one in the bush to rot . Lots of camps frustrated at lack of tags or not finding calves . High visibility kept many honest hunters honest just incase they decided to even think about straying . Saved some moose and likely even some deer .Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
TD
TD
This isn't about undercover work. It's uniformed officers driving cars with low-profile markings. The question is whether you best deter offenders by being visible.
Routine patrols with a green/white pickup will never the deter a local seasoned poacher. They're comfortable in their back yard and are used to seeing an MNR vehicle. They've got their stories down pat even before being stopped and checked.
Unmarked can pick up a lot of violations, everything from guys fishing with extra lines to loaded firearms in a vehicle. All that's usually needed is to get closer to the guys before they clean up their act and unmarked accomplishes this.
CO's should probably parked their marked car in a visible place but walk the river wearing a fishing vest and gear.
Might get more excitement that way.
Having been working in a "ghost car" for years I will chime in here, although not a CO. It may be a cost saving issue, striping a vehicle can cost a lot of money first of all. It could be a new vehicle for them and the striping is being designed and being prepped for installation. Unmarked law enforcement vehicle have their place, and so do marked. Most unmarked have so many lights that it is obvious that they are who they are when they want to be seen. The officers are also in uniform which is a dead give away. When people see a marked vehicle they are good, while they see the marked vehicle, but once out of sight return to their original habits. If your original habits are legal then there isn't an issue. I also used to get people telling me all the time "I saw your new mustang the other day," when we didn't have a mustang at the time. People will never now where the officer is or what he is driving so they will change their habits all the time no knowing. Not everyone but the majority will. Striped vehicles are also usually made of reflective material for visibility, so it would be pretty hard for a marked vehicle to park in low light conditions and not glow. If your legal who cares. If your legal lots of people will be happy that they will catch a few more poachers. And they have had unmarked vehicles throughout the province for decades, as I was aware of one such in north western Ontario years ago. There are always people who feel that this is unfair, or entrapment or that the unmarked vehicle is not needed, but the majority feels the opposite.
I saw a CO last weekend and I'm almost certain he was out in his own truck. There wasn't a marking on it, but he was in uniform. Was actually very helpful as I was in a new area and he pointed out some spots to stay away from.
I had all my stuff so I was legal so I wasn't worried about seeing him, but if others weren't legal they would have never noticed him until he was out of his truck.
I agree , Headin to work last year and had this guy behind wanting to " GO " And at a very dangerous time pulled a bad hair brain move to pass me , only to have the light grey mid sized car behind him start strobing the grill light's I pulled over and the officer got his guy a km up the road. I just laughed... Saw a CO in a blue ford escape running around last year. It work'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Crash2000
Not really sure what exactly a ghost car is....
But the MNR has fully marked vehicles, completely unmarked vehicles and they also have some vehicles with subdued markings. Those are the dark vehicles with markings that only show up when a light hits them at night.
Good news, there are currently 9 new CO's going through Ontario Police College right now.
We need more CO's, but I don't think it will happen.
Maybe it's time to train some OPP a little more in the FWCA. A CO in every OPP detachment would be nice to see.
Like a previous poster said...if you are doing nothing wrong then why are concerned about it??? I'm all for more u/c co's in unmarked vehicles to stop all the poaching that is going on, be it in the rivers, lakes or woods!
The term the CO's use is "STEALTH" vehicle. THis is the vehicle that is black that has Black Lettering. Not for under cover work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
The OP seems like a little bit of a trolling expedition to me:)
The more out there the better IMO . I don't care if they are invisible.
I have no issue with unmarked vehicles and stealth work. If they are digging up information about illegal activity going on within a location by undercover work and catching poachers then that's one up for the various game and fish species we all enjoy hunting each year.
Goes along the lines Takes a thief to catch a thief. As in under cover cops in drug and gang enforcement its a tool to uncover illegal activities. You may have not seem a CO but that plain clothes fisherman eyeing you may have been one. Another saying A measure of a man is what he does when no one is looking. Hence illegal activities occur even by otherwise honest people when no ones looking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
This is the problem with some people. Lack of person responsibility. That fact that they got penalized wasn't an unmarked car it was you did something illegal. Its not a cash grab...If you don't want to pay don't do the crime in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
A little off topic here but MNRF, is forestry not a natural resource? Why do they need to mention it?
Everyone likes more letters after their name :) wonder how much that "rebrand" cost us :)Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyRookie
$28.00 for a turkey tag:):)
I watched an undercover CO on the saugeen last fall. He really didn't know how to steelhead but the three clowns stuffing fish in the bush behind them sure did. Unfortunately a CO up on the hill had parked a "marked" unit and when some of the poachers buddies left the river a text message quickly flew back to the culprits ............ a lot of nice rainbows rotted in the bush that day. So that's a situation where the marked unit wasn't a good idea at all. Nice to see a plainclothes CO though!Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Some of the most fun I had when "on the job" were the assignments to a selective enforcement unit (completely unmarked and tinted out) to nail the crap out of speeders in high risk collision areas and/or areas of high complaints of traffic infractions in residential areas. Outwardly,the units looked like any other vehicle parked at the side of the road/street,but,the inside looked like an airline cockpit. It wasn't uncommon to write a full book of tickets in one shift and the effect on infractions was dramatic. We'd set up for one day,wait a couple of days until the area "cooled down" then go back and hammer them,again,until we felt they "got the message." The effects seemed to last a long time before we needed to go back.
As for investigative technique,unmarked vehicles and plain clothes assignments are indispensible. Crooks don't usually act up when they know the cops are around,especially in FWCA enforcement by OMNRF officers. Sending a marked unit around to different areas certainly help in "showing the flag" as we used to call it,but,the real meat-and-potatoes is with undercover assignments and are usually the most risky for personal injury to enforcement personnel. Unfortunately,it sometimes goes with territory.
I think they should use the most appropriate tool for the job. However, I have to say that I don't have a problem being stopped or questioned by any officer in uniform, but I get indignant, to say the least, if some nonuniformed goof walks up demanding something...
In simple terms there are good guys and bad guys and they should be treated accordingly. I see a trend that some law enforcement thinks they can treat the regular guy like a criminal until proven otherwise. Unmarked cars, no uniform, paramilitary equpiment are all tell tales. Certainly, there is a place for all of that, but it should be plan B and not become the default.
.......... but I get indignant, to say the least, if some nonuniformed goof walks up demanding something...
Nope Plan A. I feel above is the wrong attitude. If they are questioning you be polite answer their question let them go on their way. If they got a guy acting twitchy got no problem with them getting control of the situation. Every one has the right to a safe work place. Don't want too see another person of service go home on their back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waftrudnir
I absolutely agree. A cardinal rule of plain clothes or unmarked units for law enforcement is to never confront citizens unless or until a marked uniformed officer is present with you. Personnel can get seriously injured or even killed pulling stuff like that and "I didn't know it was the police at the time,your honor" is a valid defense in Court. Except in dire circumstances where life is in danger and rapid,immediate,decisive action is needed to prevent loss of that life,will undercover or plain clothes officers act.
I,too,have zero tolerance for dough heads that think they're "somebodies" indignantly and disrespectfully demanding such things as ID or some "pass" and you just know they don't have the authority to spit. Bear in mind that all LEO's,provincial Offense Officers carry badges and warrant cards and they're required to produce them,on demand,by anyone. If some goof can't,they'll usually get told to go to hell,real quick,but,in such a polite way that they'll actually enjoy the trip. LOL
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Until I (and only I) am fully convinced that guy approaches me is legit, he is a threat and I will act accordingly! If some LEO doesn’t like that the public is doing that, wear uniform, drive a marked car or look for a different job in the first place!
There is a reason why all over the world law enforcement has been wearing uniforms for centuries! People who know they are guilty seek evasion when possible, but a good number of upright citizens will seek confrontation until they actually understand the situation and what role the play supposingly in it.
One thing I wonder: Waiving some potentially fake papers and badges are hard to evaluate for the layman from a distance. So if the situation is not clear and there is no grave danger to anyone around, what can I do to verify the legitimacy of the officer; e.g. call 911 and tell them to stay on standby until they confirm?
Unmarked units are a force multiplayer in that the same officer can lay more charges of higher quality in many instances. For the law abiding it is better use of their tax dollars. For the years I had hair half way down my back my uniform was a ball cap and vest with police written on it. I bet the druggies whined just like the poachers that wasn't fair ball.
That's true. There's more than one kind of offender. But the "seasoned poacher" isn't your only problem out there. Small scale offences by large numbers of people, taken together, are just as important as continued, deliberate poaching by a few individuals. And this is to say nothing of the safety stuff -- how many people would start banging away 15 mins before legal shooting light if they knew the MNR was out and about?Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Well, it's certainly not entrapment. But it's not only important to deal with people who break the rules; it's also important to consider what the message sent by the way you do it. "We're here to protect the resource and keep you safe" is a good message; "We're here to ding ya" is ultimately counterproductive. Good old Peel's principles: in the fish & game arena, most people care about the resource and are on the CO's side, and I think it's important to keep it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash2000
Highway Traffic Act is another thing entirely -- most people violate it every time they step behind the wheel. That includes the police ... and me, too. The ghost car is obviously a useful tool there, and I think most of us accept that when we get pulled over for speeding, it's fair.
Case in point re Peel's principles. The police are an extension of the people, and they can be effective only with our goodwill and support. That's not to be discarded lightly. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Waftrudnir
We were questioned at a private campground in Kirkland Lake by a CO driving an unmarked Jeep branded SUV, looking for information on who started a campfire on an island and didn't extinguish it properly, causing a bush fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by G Skinner
That's why I shoot a .35. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by mbhunter
What Welsh said
Oh ya and I was in a trolling mood last night.
Trolling isn't a mood. It's a disorder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
Having a marked vehicle driving around will temporarily deter criminals from doing anything illegal. That's great at preventing crime if you want to keep driving around the block all day. Unfortunately the CO's can't even afford gas so that options out.
Deterring crime is just delaying crime, criminals will continue what they're doing once the CO is down the road. I fully support the unmarked cars because at least this way they can catch poachers in the act and build a stronger case against them for court.
Don't know about that...got a few good pages of debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
I have never until two days ago seen an MNRF "stealth" truck. I found it odd...beyond to the story if the rogue CO that stated out a man's farm for several days over allegations of selling in inspected meat.
This is simply untrue. Most FWCA offences are not the work of career criminals.Quote:
Originally Posted by x_xeon_x
I got to see one first hand on the opening day of ducks, and watch the undercover officers make their busts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
The MNR does a *lot* of stakeouts like this for OMFRA, which does not have enforcement officers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
could be a rental
Just seems like more danger to the CO who may not be in uniform and not driving a marked car to approach someone with a weapon and start demanding things.
Saw this truck today.. New black f150 saw out near buttonVille airport
Had two "undercover" Co check me and my buddy a few years back. It was opening day duck on mud lake. We had set up a good hour before sunrise. In the dark saw 2 guys paddeling a canoe towards us. In the dark we thought it was some lost hunters and after a couple of WTF are you doing in our decoys they turned on the lights and although they were in camo underneath you could see the bullet proof jacket and the shotgun across the gunnels. Apolgies given and accepted by both quick check and on their way. Pays to be legal always.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-wanShinobi
We were stopped in the Ganny a number of years ago by a uniformed combo C.O./O.P.P. riding together in a beat up Ford Taurus. I asked the flatfoot what caused the big dent in the car and he said "that's one deer you guys wont get" LMAO.
And most of us will still refer to it as the MNR (rolling my eyes). The L&F/MNR had their building beside us in Apsley. Even up until it was closed most of us referred to it as the Lands & Forest building.Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
Law enforcement officers need all the tools they can get including unmarked cars or whatever you call them....
We had the white ghost truck stop outside of where we parked take down our plate no and then 2 hours later walk into the woods at our stand to make sure we had all the paper work and red on as well as gun cases, he completely beggared our hunt.
Well,yeah,they need to do their jobs,right?Quote:
Originally Posted by stilchen67
It still is amazing me how many never got the intent of what or how I read the post . Nor what FW said . We all believe in ghost cars and undercover work to get the job done to catch the bad guys and it takes that to catch the REAL BAD GUYS but your failing to see that '' a lock is only a prevention " that keeps a normally honest man honest . '' We hear you . !!!!!! I personally could care a less if it was a ghost or marked vehicle that stopped me because I follow the law and believe in it . I just want to see MNR vehicles and more they are seen is a good thing to deter . Just heard a rumour that became true and charges laid . 3 cows left in bush to rot and cow calf killed that was seized because of not tagged . SAD . MNR marked vehicles in THE area may have prevented this .
TD
TD
Where those moose in your area? I ask because the C.O. I saw near Temagami last weekend was working a moose case.
Yea sure.... It's COs like that who know full well they are wrecking someones hunt that turn hunters off for life.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Cheers
I'm glad you picked up on my theme TD.
In my hunting career I can count the number of CO encounters on one hand (yes I still count on my hands). I have seen many more while fishing esp icefishing popular lakes.
This poor showing leads many to believe they can get away with breaking laws. With many WMUs having severe tag reductions you can bet poaching will be up. So I'm still not sure how hiding out in "stealth" vehicles will curb this behaviour.
The other concern I gave is the continued negative view Law Enforcement organizations get...certainly ghost cars/hiding etc does nothing to raise the image of LEO....Hiding is sneaky aka bad aka what bad guys do.
400bb ... absolutely.
[QUOTE=400bigbear;837928] SAD . MNR marked vehicles in THE area may have prevented this .
Well, I can say I've been there. The odds that a marked MNR vehicle could have been in that particular area at the time of or around the time of the offence is miniscule. There are thousands upon thousands of km of logging roads, lakes, rivers and camps that have to be checked during moose season. On top of that the nature of the work demands that guys double up because they're expected to work nights. This cuts coverage in half again.
I can guarantee that is someone wants to take a moose/deer illegally and the opportunity presents itself, no marked or unmarked vehicle will prevent that.
Talking about being pulled over by plain clothes officers. In the past there have been incidents where folks have put a flashing light on the dash of their car & pulled people over w/ bad intentions. I recall the police forces in question getting the word out to the public, that if a member of the public felt uncomfortable about the situation, they should in no way get out of the car.
If anyone call fill in the blanks it would be great.
I've been pulled over by the OPP & DRs a few times over the years & the officers were always in uniform.
How does a five-minute equipment check wreck your hunt if you show them your stuff and they're on their way?Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
Good read guys - the only comment I have is what if your a woman driving at night and a car behind you puts on flashing lights and wants you to pull over - should you stop - drive slowly to a lighted gas station - if you stop and some guy not in uniform approaches what do you do - I know of one case where a woman would not stop when a car with flashing lights pulled behind her - she drove slowly to a lighted store before stopping - the cop got real mad and gave her a hard time and a ticket for not stopping - she went to trail and the judge ruled that the cop was wrong and the ticket was thrown out - just a couple weeks ago I'm driving on a country road and a vehicle behind me puts on its flashing lights - I slow down and pull over to let it pass - the vehicle turns out to be a pickup truck and passes me - I figure it might be a volunteer fireman going to a fire or something - well I continue on my way and come to a corner where a bar is located - there in the parking lot is the pickup truck - he must have been dying for a beer -
Ask Stilchen. It happened to him and I've heard enough stories of it happening. Depends on the time of day. If it's the middle of the day it's not as bad but they could still spook the area you're hunting in, that you went to in the dark, playing the wind and staying quiet for hours. I know I would be thoroughly ticked off after going through a pile of time and work getting my site set up, only to have a couple of COs come tromping through the bush, specially during the prime rut when bucks could be moving anytime of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
If there is a good reason to suspect that someone is breaking the law then of course that's a different story, otherwise wait at the road etc to check folks out or check the camps. Mind you, with the limited resources available to the MNR I do understand that it might not be the most practical way.
Cheers
I believe that if a plain clothes officer does "light up" a car to pull it over they are then obliged to identify themselves with badges. If stopped, I would be asking for this and if the person cannot produce a badge....carry on. If they do, I believe you are obligated to cooperate otherwise you'd be guilty of failing to stop for police.
There are many police forces who have plain clothes detectives, unmarked and "ghost" cars with many varieties of lights used to pull cars over. . MNR is no different now.
You have the right to request a marked cruiser and officer before handing over your identification. As far as I understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
Not really. Once the officer identifies himself with a badge and warrant card, any further obstruction on your part will earn you the right to a speedy trial !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
It was in wmu 49 kickingfrog . Hunters in the area dropped the dime when they came across the wanton waste . Even a poacher will usually try to recover a kill often and it's when they get caught .Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingfrog
Sawbill . No disrespect intended and I'm very well aware of the difficulties CO's experience in this vast province of ours especially with the lack of funding for MNR and the lack of respect the portfolio gets as a whole by sitting government . That's not the point I'm reiterating on . There are hotspots for moose hunters and moose in many jurisdictions and should be self explanatory . Even a single patrol by MNR and or OPP gets the lips a flapping and can be a deterrent . The season here after all is only one week long . Will it stop all . NEVER and it is not the point being made . Never seeing any presence though is not a good thing .
Maybe it's time to disband CO's all together and let the highly funded OPP take patrols etc over ? They can't catch all but understand that PRESENCE can make a difference in prevention . They patrol the area anyways as is but don't like to step on the frail toes of MNR . This year CO's are travelling with OPP in OPP cruisers in catchment areas but heah .
TD
Great Idea if you want your taxes to go up for the municipality. OPP charges back for their services. Whole new can of crap if you go that route.Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
I agree that the highly visible trucks provide a deterrent to the bad guys. Are you trying to say that OPP don't use plain or "ghost" vehicles for their patrolling/monitoring?
I think the idea of a few plain/unmarked vehicles is that the bad guys will never really know who's coming down the road so possibly be careful all the time....and it lets the good guys get a little closer before poachers realize who is coming.
Also, once an officer identifies him/herself with badge etc., I'd be pretty careful about resisting what they are doing!! As mentioned you may be setting yourself up for obstruction. If a plainclothes detective pulled you over, showed you a badge and asked for your I.D. would you demand a cruiser and uniform officer attend prior to cooperating. I hope not. What's the difference?
This is a bit of a "sticky wicket",too. Very few people know what Canadian law enforcement badges and warrant cards look like. Crooks know that they can flash anything that looks "official". Warrant cards can printed by anyone with a computer and laminater and badges can be bought off the internet from any number of repro dealers, very easily. They're very difficult for the average person to discern,especially in the dark. How many people actually look at them and read them? That's why that defense in court is absolute which makes plain clothes and under cover work difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I was stopped this morn by a ghost MNR truck in elgin county. just a regular black f150 with silver tool box
A very good friend of mine had that happen but with OPP he called 911, said where he was and wouldn't pull over until he had confirmation.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter10
How did that end for him? not being smart just curious as to the opp reactionQuote:
Originally Posted by topher
He got a speeding ticket. Lol. It was late night. And a black unmarked car is pulling you over... how safe would you feel? He explained what he did to the officer.. when he pulled over. He did however slow down to a snail pace... just did not stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
I don't really know what defence you are referring to, as being absolute. If you think " But I didn't know the officers badge and warrant card was real", is a defence, certainly not around here !!Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
People tend to think they have rights they don't have.
For example, people think they have the right to inspect a search warrant before allowing the search. They don't. And you really have no right to inspect a peace officer's credentials before you let him do his job. If a cop has reason to arrest you, for example, you don't get to resist up until the time he produces his credentials and explains himself.
You do have the right to argue about it after the fact, in court.
This is the one I saw on the QEW. Lettering doesn't show in the photo.
Ask 400 what he pays for the service up that way! I know it is going up again next year or the year after. These people in small villages/towns can hardly afford to keep the infrastructure up to date let alone pay more for the services that seems to be less each year. Only time you will see them in Sundridge is if they have to search for someone in the lake, or it is bingo night at the legion.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLR308
I had two colleagues that were taken to task after charges against an individual for "resisting" were dismissed because he wasn't allowed to inspect their ID when he requested. It didn't matter to the judge that the skell was a dirt bag. It lead to changes in in-service training techniques for staff working on plain clothes details and,ASFAIK,it's still in use,today.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
That was probably in the dark ages.....there are more officers working in a plain clothes capacity now, than there ever was. Drugs, Intel, Internet crime, biker enforcement units, domestic violence units, General investigations units, homicide units....to name a few. Not many people question authenticity of police badges and warrant cards now. Like I said, those that do, and decide to obstruct, have the right to a speedy trial.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Yessir! That's why we have courts and you're right,it's hard to imagine that it was as long ago as it was. Lots of water has gone under the ol' bridge since then.LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
What's a speedy trial? Last one I was a crown witness for spanned 4 years.... and than the guy pled guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
That's a discussion for another day ! LolQuote:
Originally Posted by topher
Having a good look at such ID is hardly obstructing. Without allowing a reasonable inspection of said I'D what is the purpose...could be flashing me a library card and cracker jack prize for all I know if I don't get to actually examine it. Perhaps I can just flash my DL no need for examination right? Next time I go thru CBSA I'll just flash my passport. Same difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Go for it ! Don't forget your toothbrush.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy