http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/spc...n-stoney-creek
http://m.insidehalton.com/news-story...unter-s-arrow/
LATEST UPDATE (Nov.26.2014).... thanks 'duckduckgoose':
http://www.chch.com/hamilton-police-...-not-murdered/
Printable View
http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/spc...n-stoney-creek
http://m.insidehalton.com/news-story...unter-s-arrow/
LATEST UPDATE (Nov.26.2014).... thanks 'duckduckgoose':
http://www.chch.com/hamilton-police-...-not-murdered/
Wow! That article burnt my azz worse than last weeks chilli. That is about as anti hunter as you can get. The better part of the article is focused on hunters and not a dead horse. The idiocy behind these people drives me nuts. We don't have the arrow but it was a crossbow! How did they figure this out? I wouldn't doubt this comes back as an anti hunters way of creating some waves. If someone breaks into an enclosure and shoots a horse he is not a hunter, he's just a guy who killed a horse.
Wow.....
I am sure Mr. Stoltzfus the clear anti-hunter is a forensic expert in all projectile weapons, which allowed him to investigate the wound on Moonpie and at first recognize a high powered rifle exit would, then further investigate and realize it had to be a crossbow, which could have any number (probably what 20-30) different wounds depending on the broad head.
It also could not at all be due to the fact that he was recently trespassing on a neighbors property and had a confrontation.
Just another great article making hunters look terrible, and even better it could just be a lunatic.
-Steve
I was wondering that myself. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
"Following the incident, Stoltzfus plans to keep his horses confined in a secured enclosure each night"
I can't help but think that might have been a good way to care for them anyway. Good for him for finally thinking of it.
I think that means bringing them in the barn every night. And no, a livestock owner should not have to do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. in TO
Why is the word "hunter" used here? There is nothing at all to suggest it was a hunter.
This article is not anti-hunter in my opinion it is simply quoting one person's opinion.
Pretty disgusting who ever did this, I hope they find who is responsible.
This article has nothing to do with hunting or hunters.....
hard to say what really happened... may have bin a poacher who stayed after dark, seen what he thought to be a deer and shot the pony... or could be the disgruntled man he ran into in the bush... couple years ago out here in chisholm, we had a guy shoot a neighbours horse on his property... the story was he seen the horses loose on his property, and didnt want them to ruin his hunt, so he fired a warning shot towards them to scare them off, then apparently the horse charged at him, and he had to shoot to protect his own life... he was charged... and living in a community that is over run with horse owners, he moved away the same month, assuming he got some threats lol
Lol. He was worried the horses would ruin his hunt but the warning shot wouldn't? Thats a special kind of logic there.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy steve
ya and im sure all the opp, mnr etc investigators really helped out his hunting too lolQuote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
The horse charged him and he had to shoot to save himself? That might work if the judge had never been around horses....
Always someone out there ready to give hunters a bad name.
Holy jumping to conclusions Batman. It was a hunter? with a rifle? No wait , must of been a crossbow? Only a wack job would kill a pony and for the paper to report it as a hunter ? WTF. But as Welsh has pointed out before the general public will fail to see the difference.
Very sad.
Really? Have a 1/2 acre lot fenced in dog has the run of the back yard during the day however at night or when not supervised it gets kenneled. Do I have too guess not however to do my part to reduce risk of whatever I choose too. Its about personal responsibilities and reducing risks.Quote:
Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher
I live within earshot of this story...Seeing a grown man (and woman cry on CHCH news) for his horse was a bit unsettling.
Judging by his tears, it was like he lost his child..
However, it was assumed hunters or somebody with a bow, only because the animal was cut up the length to have an arrow and all evidence removed.
It's very hard to find a hunting spot in this area without landowners permission..Therefore, it had to be a trespasser, or somebody with total disregard. The owner was correct in claiming that mistaken identity is not and excuse..If you can't tell the difference between horse and deer, then you've got issues.
I felt for him. He deserves justice.
I think that's sort of the point of many responses here, I don't think anyone believes the mistaken identy case being made. No hunter killed the horse by mistake; someone who doesn't like horses (or those horses) killed the horse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pijetro
I like the line...On Nov. 12, Stoltzfus was unknowingly riding on private property when he was confronted by an angry man. So this guy is trespassing. Tries to pass it off claiming "unknowingly". Well if you don't know where your property ends you have bigger problems. Forget the hunter its more likely a Hatfields and McCoy situation. This guy thinks he's self entitled to ride where he wants (the damaged fence may have been self initiated to provided easier access for himself.) neighbour may have said stop or else......
1/2acre lot. Ok, I get where you're coming from. We have 222 acres with beef cattle and horses. Are you suggesting we should herd all of our livestock into the barns every night because it's deer season? I think we're looking at this very differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Light-heartedly, I often get annoyed when people call horses livestock. To me, they're no more livestock than a dog is. We don't eat, get milk or wool from horses - they're just pets like dog 'round here.Quote:
Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher
Would imagine you shelter your live stock in adverse weather to protect them. Do what you want I feel everyone should do what they can too reduce risk not depend on someone else. This is not a "Hunter" or "Hunting" problem. Its a criminal problem so you may want too protect your livestock from a criminal element.
I have owned quarter horses most of my life. NEVER have I had one shot, or saw/heard of one shot accidentally.
Likely more to the story.
Punch Bowl is on the non hunting side of boundary designating hunting/no hunting (2.6 kilometers off), horses impacting deer movement etc is a non issue. This is a criminal act, not a hunting incident.
My sentiments,exactly! The Hamilton Spec editors need to be taken to task for this inflammatory,yellow attempt at journalism. An editor with one shred of credibility should have ordered a complete re-write,removing the word "hunter". This was not done by a hunter,at all. It was done by an armed criminal and should be regarded as such.....period!Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
That was no mistake! Check out the wacko neighbour in behind him that happens to own a crossbow (allegedly). Hunters don't hunt until 11;00 pm but annoyed neighbours sure do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pijetro
I agree. Saw the story on the news as well, something didn't seem right to me about a 'hunting incident'. There is more to this story I suspect....Quote:
Originally Posted by DGM999
RB
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher
The Anti-Hunter part of this article is clearly the use of the word hunter IN the land owners opinion you mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
In the first article it says:
"Stoltzfus believes the shooter may have been a disgruntled hunter who was concerned that his horses were scaring off deer in the area."
in the follow up article the headline is
"Search on for hunter who killed Hamilton pony with arrow"
It further goes on to say:
"Jukes is shocked and angry, saying the hunter had to know what he was doing because the area requires some knowledge of the "lay of the land" and how to get in and out quickly."There are some sick people out there … a murder has happened."
The article is not anti hunter the opinion of the land owner is, and then by printing the "opinion" the article hops on the band wagon.
I agree I hope whoever did this comes to justice as it is sick, but to "ASSume" it was a hunter because you "identified" a xbow wound or even a gunshot wound is largely anti hunter.
There are tons of people (no license required) who own bows of all kinds, also tons of people who (license required) own guns, and can get mad at trespassing or any sort of confrontation.
Some people are sick and twisted, doesn't mean you need to automatically blame hunters.
-Steve
Oops,
Missed a few GEMS at the end......
"Stoltzfus says other hunters identified the wound as an arrow wound. The arrow itself is gone because the hunter cut it out of the pony's body so he couldn't be traced, Stoltzfus believes.
Moonpie "didn't have a chance. He's so friendly. He thinks humans are his best friends. He's nosy anyway. He'd go over (to the hunter) to investigate his presence, thinking 'hey, do you have an apple for me?'""
He didn't have a chance..... no , did he happen to leave his armor and sword in the barn?
Also of course he would go over (to the hunter) and see if he had any apples.
I can't say how disgusted I am by the act as horses like dogs are pets and I would be out for blood if someone killed my dog, but this has spun out of control.
-Steve
I read a lot of detective stories when I was a kid - I got this one all figured out - see this Stoltzfus fellow got someone real mad and since the guy couldn't shoot Stoltzfus he shot his pony - so all you got to do is find out who hates Stoltzfus - but it could be a problem if everybody hates Stoltzfus - case almost closed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckduckgoose
well... you can eat horses, and get milk from them, and there is more to raisiing livestock than just getting food and wool... horses can be pretty big money, could be a fellow's lively hood, raising, training and selling horses. not all horses are just pets either, even in todays world, horses are still widely used on a farm, especially in a amish community. not my horses... mine just eat hay...
The hunter removed the arrow from moonpie so he couldn't be traced. WTF. I emailed the spec about the use of the term"hunter" no response thus far. I encourage others to do the same.
I too have sent an email.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
What's new on this story?
I hope we don't just keep on putting the cart before the horse on this one....
Lol. I've just always imagined livestock as production animals. If you're not eating your horses, they're not livestock. Guys on here make their money breeding and training dogs, but their dogs aren't livestock either.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy steve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestock
The term "livestock" is nebulous and may be defined narrowly or broadly. On a broader view, livestock refers to any breed or population of animal kept by humans for a useful, commercial purpose. This can mean domestic animals, semi-domestic animals, or captive wild animals. Semi-domesticated refers to animals which are only lightly domesticated or of disputed status. These populations may also be in the process of domestication. Some people may use the term livestock to refer to only domestic animals or even to only red meat animals.
it lists horse as dairy and meat... it also shows dog as a type of livestock and meat is also listed beside it lol i think if you are raising dogs or any live animal for profit, i would consider it to be livestock
Lol. Fair enough. I'm still picking one of the narrower definitions. :P
I have a friend that raises horses and hunts too. Last week he was telling me that hunting deer from horseback is a real advantage. According to his experience, the deer hear the four feet of the horse and are therefore not alarmed as they would be by two feet in the woods.
So, to add to all the speculation and opinions there is yet another error in the statements. Horses don't spook deer if his experience is to be accepted. It makes sense to me.
For my own part I feel for the guy. No matter how miserable you might be to another there is no valid reason to target a defenseless domestic animal.
Did the pony taste good? Too Soon?
Quotes from this mornings Ham. Spec. article;
"Moonpie was found Sunday night , dead but still warm, with a deep wound from what's believed to bean arrow through his thigh. He lay in an neighboring orchard, behind the Ridge Road market grounds where Stoltsfus housed Moonpie and his three horses "
" An expert who visited the property Tuesday told Stoltsfus the wound was caused by an arrow"
One of the places I hunt The lady there owns a few horses and one day sneaking through the pasture to my stand I spy 2 does feeding under an apple tree. I back tracked out of site and approached one of the horses and started scratching her ears and she followed me back toward where the deer were feeding. I stayed on the far side of the deer as we approached and when I was about 20 yards away I took to one knee and waited for the horse to carry on. when the horse cleared kicking range I had an easy broadside shot and the deer had no idea I was there.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGearyFTE
Moral of that story is deer don't know how many feet a horse has.
That's awesome! One of the biggest bucks i've ever seen was standing in a pasture amongst horses mid day just outside Dundas Valley. Think he was trying to blend in :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
Is your name Wile E. Coyote by chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
I walked out in a field beside a harvester and shot a nice doe .I had been watching her circle the harvester with every pass he made .when he got to the road I talked to him turns out I knew him so that worked real well .Dutch
In The Spec today, there is an article saying the ministry is no longer involved in the investigation since there is no evidence that it is hunting related.
Maybe they got enough letters,emails that they felt the need to clarify.
Good to hear. Good work to all of you that sent letters/emails. :goodstuff:Quote:
Originally Posted by Danz
I don't get that much of an anti hunting sentiment out of the article itself, just from the victim who was quoted. they have to report the story and since this gentlemen was a huge part of it they needed to include his quote whether we like it or not....
in talking to a bunch of farmers from a few different areas, a lot of them tend to have a negative view of hunters due to the mistakes of past hunters on their land, and also stories from adjacent landowners with similar horror stories. I know these people aren't "hunters" but they do knock on doors asking to hunt or engage in "hunting like" behavior and therefore whether we like it or not we all get lumped in with them.
I think the guy is a bit off base with his allegations that it was a hunter, however I bet he has had issues in the past with hunters and that leaves a bad taste in his mouth and that comes out at times like this where he has a problem (involving firearms during an open season).
just my thoughts....
It's either that or they've been listening to the usual anti-hunter anecdotal bull shyte. Don't forget,we're dealing with the Hamilton Spec,right?Quote:
Originally Posted by bowj
A buddy of mine's uncle who owns a horse farm in Sharon has had two of his horses shot by hunters over the years. He gets angry when even asked to consider to allow me to hunt on his property. I asked him how could anybody shot a horse thinking it was a deer??
He said they just push the property with dogs and try to force anything thats around to the other end. I guess it was a dogging situation? Seemed really hard to believe but he will never let anybody hunt his area again. He says he knows people still tresspass back there to. He wouldnt even cool to the idea of using bow. Even for turkey!!
This wasn't a recent event could have been years ago. But I know he's 100% on the fact his horses were shot by hunters during controlled hunts.
Anybody ever hear of anything like this happening?
Not allowed to run dogs for deer any where near Sharon.
I'm not even sure if he said dogs or not he wasnt too detailed about the description and keep in mind this could have been like 20-30 years ago. It wasnt anytime recent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
Isnt thst what Will Geer said to Robert Redford in Jeremiah Johnson....LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
My favorite movie.
Spikebat I think your uncle has a problem with HUNTING and he's trying to find an easy way to say no to your request so he's come up with an "incident" that would justify saying NO. You likely don't want to hunt his property because the first thing that goes wrong will be your fault.
When I was finishing my degree here in Thunder Bay some years back, someone shot my friend's horse in its paddock outside of town.
Their property backed onto Crown.
Some people. . .
out of the movie..Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
We had a case here years ago - some farmer was dead set on not letting anyone on his property - so one time he has charges laid against two guys for trespassing - they got fined - well about a year later someone shot two of his cows that were out in a field overnight - couldn't proof who did it but I think I can guess who - sometimes a land owner or for that matter someone can get another person really teaed off and someone gets even -
Horses and deer get along together well.
Where I hunt the farmer when he was still around would feed the horses some grain every morning to see how they are.
The deer would come at the sound of his ATV and it was not uncommon for him to be within 20 yds of the deer as they were accustomed to him coming. I have never done this with my ATV I think the deer must know even the sound of his machine.
Joe, Canadians get Teaed off (usually Red Rose Tea) However American's do get Teed off. Unless you consider golf, then both Canadians and Americans get Teed off. I worked with some Aussies that would get Teaed off at precisely 10 am every morning, provided we had plenty of cream or milk. Almost started a donnybrook asking them if coffee mate creamer would be ok for their tea(who knew). Now married to a nice Canadian lady, I completely understand the blasphemy in my offering Coffee Mate. (live and learn):tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
.....Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
Attachment 27475
once again hunters get the blame , news release this morning, police investigating insident say the pony fell onto a piece rebar on the property.
I wonder if hunters will get an appolagy.
Here's a link:
http://www.chch.com/hamilton-police-...-not-murdered/
Ha. Imagine that.
Maybe OSPCA should inspect the property to see if there are any other hazards negligently left about by the absentee owner.
Maybe if Mr Doofus had ensured that there was no trash laying around Moonpie would still be alive. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see the hunting community seeing an apology from either Stoltzfus or the Spec any time soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. in TO
Too bad we can't sue The Spec and Mr.Doofus for slander and defamation of character.....or can we?Quote:
Originally Posted by M_P
Guess the wound from a xbow is similar to that of rebar. Who knew.
Um.. Didnt the original article say that the pony was cut open to remove the arrow? Or cut it outta place?? Was that just total bs?
Because that's pretty different than just having rebar hole in the pony. This doesn't make much sense now.
So it was a lie that the pony was cut to remove the arrow??? Geez.
You evidently missed the "TEAED"off vs TEED off in Joe's original post, you know.... Tea ed off, Tee ed off. Guess you had to be there. I'll just show get my hat and show myself out..........Quote:
Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher
Way over my head. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Some people just have a habit of jumping to conclusions without all the facts. I can't say I ever got to read the original story in the Spec but the news articles in the OP's original post have nothing to do with the Spec. Anyone have a link to the original story in the Spec?
According to the " Spectator " this morning, the police have concluded their investigation and found that Moonpie the pony was NOT shot by an arrow' as previously thought by most, they said that the pony " fell into a small well like hole and impaled himself on a metal t-bar stuck into the ground".
After taking pictures and finding blood on the metal stake and in the footprints of the pony after it had extricated itself from the stake , this is what they had determined and have ended their investigation.
Also in the article - Mr. Stoltzfus does not accept this finding and is adamant that the wound was caused by an arrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Spoken like someone afraid of the backlash. What a moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by M_P
Stoltzfus sounds like a real jerk -
Yep! Please see the original post. Links are provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cody
Sounds live Stoltzfus is a real piece of work. With the problem he's trying to cause, he'd now be a DNR in my division.
Perhaps he should be charged for causing undue suffering an death for poor ol moonpie since he felt it was ok to keep him in such poor and dangerous conditions.
Not sure if that explains the fence getting cut or evidence of a broadhead
Broad head ? What broad head?
In the original article there was indication that a broad head had been used but cut out of the animal... it sounds like it was mistaken for a fence t-post.
Surprising to think those could be mixed up.
300 Grain Muzzy. Lol
I have to wonder if there was insurance on the pony. That may explain the owners attitude and refusing to accept why the pony is dead. I had a relative who used to own race horses and they were all insured for accidental death as long as the owners negligence wasn't to blame. Just a possibility
I understand now. The original post was for articles in the Hamilton News and the Halton News. Both are small, free, community newspapers. The Hamilton Spectator is a completely separate newspaper from these. All the references to the Hamilton Spec had me confused that there was a missing link in the thread to another story about this in the Spec. but there never was a link to a story about this in the Hamilton Spec in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Fence getting "cut" was likely from moonpie running into it and then impaling herself on one of the fence posts. It's not uncommon for horses to injure themselves on fences. Especially poorly constructed ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridger
[QUOTE=Ridger;847136]Not sure if that explains the fence getting cut or evidence of a broadhead[/QUOTE
The police also said that upon examination, they found that the fence was NOT cut just broken as it was rusted through, no evidence of any broadhead.
"Perhaps he should be charged for causing undue suffering an death for poor ol moonpie since he felt it was ok to keep him in such poor and dangerous conditions. "
I didn't want to say anything about him , but it is up to the owner of any animal , to make sure that they cannot get hurt in their surroundings, my wife and I had Quarter Horses for many years and it is surprising how easily they can get hurt by "just horsing around"
This truly disgusts me. The gullible public was convinced that a disgruntled, vindictive 'hunter' cut a fence, and shot a cute, little pony with a crossbow. 'Evidence' is found, and the farmer conducts an investigation Dispicable murder of a pet! A fund gets set up. People attend a service for the poor thing. Awwww, such a terrible shame.
But wait!..... No, what REALLY happened was that the fence was broken from rust and neglect, and a farmer allowed his prize pony to fall and fatally injure itself through his own negligence. It has NOTHING to do with a hunter, or crossbow, or any other person......but most of the public will still hold hunters in a bad light.
I must admit that when I heard the REAL STORY on the radio I laughed out loud at the audacity of the owner, the media, and the publicity. I feel badly for the beast and the children that loved it, but my stomach hurt from laughing so hard.
I do believe insurance fraud entered somebody's mind, too.
Disgusting
Hey buddy!! He ain't a farmer unless the feds say he is at income tax time !! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by urbansherpa
This guy is an absentee pet owner as far as I see it! So stop throwing the "F" word around man!!
If that tbar caused a broadhead type wound as identified by the experts, i want to get my hands on one. Put a pony down within 40 yards that'll work wonders on a deer.
Really though, I am relieved that they at least ruled the bow thing out. As hunters we don't need this nonsense being published by the spec, but I bet nobody is surprised when they jumped to conclusions.
Horse shot with crossbow by a hunter?
Man beats horse to death with hockey stick, must have been a hockey player?
Horse is slain by man wielding sword, must have been a knight?
Stupid stupid stupid
I'm not sure if it was ever brought up, but the thing that always ran through my head was every arcticle saying "crossbow", specifically. If you don't have the bolt, how do you know if it was a bolt or an arrow? And as it turns out, rebar... neither a bolt nor an arrow... rebar...
Wow are we still beating this horse?
No pun intended right?Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
It's not a horse man, it's a pony.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
At least if it was a donkey we could have a barbecue and all get a piece of axx ! lol
Angus brother, you have my most sincere apologies! Never intended to besmirch the good name of the farmers. Simply equated the country-living equine owner as being a farmer. I realize that true farmers are the ones who help feed us all. They're not neglective, vindictive exploiters of cute pets! Didn't mean to 'saddle' you with a bad name!Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
I gotta go sharpen up my rebars now. Hoping to take a deer this week!
You don't need rebar, just neglected T-post the cows have bent over will get you a nice buck if baited properly ! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by urbansherpa
It would be interesting to see where the pony was impaled... hard to believe someone would be so negligent with steel post, given they have livestock running around.
In the immortal words of Aunt Manya...........
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...psca6f7ba0.jpg
Absolute classic.. LMAO . Funny how most things in life can relate back to Seinfeld .Quote:
Originally Posted by STUBBLE BUM