Hey guys,
I was looking for some advice on a entry level cross bow that would give me a shot to fill my deer tag this season.
Thanks
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Hey guys,
I was looking for some advice on a entry level cross bow that would give me a shot to fill my deer tag this season.
Thanks
Excalibur axiom. First and last you will ever need to buy and anything beyond that I would consider a luxury upgrade.
buy a excel and be set for life .no looking back .best warranty in the world Dutch
Excalibur phoenix or axiom.
Buy the best bow you can afford ! I would be inclined to look for a used Excal. There are lots being sold now, as guys upgrade.
There's a pretty good one for sale here. I don't know the seller personally, but he posts here quite often and has a pretty good reputation as a reasonable guy. $540 fully equipped phoenix. Hard to beat.
http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...ssbow-for-Sale
I don't think there is a crossbow out there that you can buy now that will prepare you to hunt 'this' season....contrary to some thinking, it takes a lot of practise to become proficient enough to hunt Deer with a crossbow. Far to many deer get wounded that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier_Charette
Brand new Excalibur Exocet with arrows and scope $750 Gators in Sarnia.
Pick up a used excal in any model as it will serve you well and they are bullet proof. As mike pal said make sure u get in a lot of practice before you take to the field.
Keep your shots under 20 yards and an excalibur will put meat in the freezer. As a buyer there are a lot of used excaliburs for sale but new ones are also going for about 550. If I was a buyer I would negotiate price. Ones sitting for awhile are overpriced. Good deals like the matrix 330 recently listed go fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
Thanks for the advice guys,
I think il take MikePal's Advice and just drop the dream for this season and will gear up and practice for Next Season.
You will get the "deals" when you are not in a hurry to buy. Keep an eye on the market and keep reading all the good advice above!
Get a Excalibur and you will be all set it does not take much practice to shoot a crossbow.
Once sighted in and tested for 20 and 30 yards ,you will be fine.
Absolutely correct very little practice needed as long as you can control your nerves. :)
Agree - but you must be very good at getting your range to deer accurate. I have 20 yard and 30 yard markers at my stand. Take a few target shots from your stand at where you expect the deer to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE
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Originally Posted by JUDGE
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Originally Posted by yellow dog
Great advice guys ...., :silly:Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Sure a slap in the face for those of us that take the sport seriously and practise endless hrs honing our skills to ensure that when we take a shot, it's a clean, fast kill…
Geez MP - my daughter - who is not a hunter/shooter - wanted to try my xbow out when she was 15. At 25 yards she was hitting a 3" bullseye freehand every time from the first shot. My M-I-L who is also not a hunter/shooter tried it too - albeit using a picnic table for a rest, but was able to do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Shooting an xbow is NOT difficult - all you need to know is the range of you target and which crosshair marker to use at that range. I guess its also important to know to pull the string straight back too - but if you use the cocking aid - that's a moot point.
Interesting perspective - 'anyone that doesn't spend as much time as I do shouldn't be out there hunting'...
Your missing the point Werner...
I got the point and disagreed with it. I know that you expect everyone here to follow your advice as the one and only authority on the forum, but really?
My 2c.
How much shooting have you done in your life?
How much Deer hunting have you done?
I am no stranger to shooting. While there was a huge gap in my life, when I wasn't hunting/shooting ( basically while married) I grew up shooting. In the fall of 2013 I took up WFing for the first time in my life. By my fourth outing, the experienced WFer who was/is teaching me was more than a little surprised when I started doing as well/better than him.
WFing/Wing shooting is very different than almost any other type of shooting/hunting. While some things are very different, breathing, squeezing shooting techniques (with some latitude) remain the same.
If you've shot rifles, you can shoot a x-bow. right now imo.
Don't push yourself, stay within your limits. Many experienced bow hunters deem 30 or 40 yards their limit. 20 yards almost a "gimme".
You could spend the next 365 days on a range.....you wont know if you will get "buck fever" until the moment of truth regardless. meaning If you can hit a pie plate today consistently.....you can hit it 1 yr from now. Sooner or later, you have go in the field. Have a buck in your sights and x-hair on the vitals.
You wont know until it's for real.
***************
Hard to go wrong with Excals regardless of model.
I own an Exclipse XT and the top end scope for it. I am thinking about selling it for one of the newer 405 matrix models.
then I ask myself why.
Is the Eclipse lacking anything?
In other words.
They are all tools, all lethal within 30-40 yards
Always with the personal shot hey Werner….Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Shooting paper in the back yard is not the same as hunting deer….
Just read thru the Bowhunting forum and see how many guys miss or wounded deer at 20 yds year after year….it’s because they don’t understand the difference.
But Hey, lets advice new guys to the sport go out and try it anyways. Great mentoring.
"Shooting paper in the back yard is not the same as hunting deer…."Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Exactly - so how is the OP supposed to get his experience hunting deer if he isn't hunting deer?????????
No shortage of stories on missed/wounded deer w/ bows- but its not just the newcomers - and I would bet that most are due to range estimation errors and excitement.
...and whey you start taking shots at other people's advice that you disagree with - expect some blowback. Pretty childish of you to take a shot at 3 people's opinions and then whine because you get some blowback from that coming your way. You really have to get used to the idea that you are not the only one on the forum with an opinion.
Do you even have the ability to have a debate an issue without resorting to personal attacks and name calling...it's gotten real old Werner...Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
It seems the OP understood the point I was making.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier_Charette
OP probably did not want to spend the money to buy the crossbow. You can practice 10 years on a bag there is nothing like actually hunting. Practice is not the same as actually hunting period. So have to agree with Werner on this one. If you take a excalibur out and keep your shots under 20 yards and shoot and use the right broadheads you will have a dead deer or bear. Practice and real hunting are not the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Practicing simulated hunting scenarios at home is what MP is really referring to here and there's lots of them.
20 yards in an open field and 20 yards in the woods are 2 completely different looking images.
If you can't distinguish the difference, you're missing or wounding animals. Only experience puts that knowledge into your memory.
You aren't achieving that by sighting in your bow with a handfull of arrows.
I learned at a young age that "what can go wrong in bowhunting , will go wrong in bowhunting.
...and someone pointed this out way earlier in the thread "but you must be very good at getting your range to deer accurate. I have 20 yard and 30 yard markers at my stand. Take a few target shots from your stand at where you expect the deer to be."Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
Me bad, didn't notice, sorry bout that.
Practicing on stand is good for the memory. Do you take a shot when you get there or when you're ready to leave?
I normally set up my stand when I'm not hunting...find or set up range markers - rocks/trees. Throw out the black box target and take a few shots to make sure things work as I expect.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
If I'm hunting the evening and I get there early enough, I'll take a couple of practice shots. If I hunt the morning, I'll take a couple of practice shots when I'm leaving. These are field points that I shoot into the ground - usually at apples - since I'm usually hunting over apples - I drop this routine when the ground freezes.
I am not much of a bow hunter, but I'm pretty good with my phoenix. Never shot at a deer yet - passed a couple because of darkness and one because of range - unsure of making a 40 or so yard shot - I wasn't prepared for it having made the assumption that any deer that close would come right in to the 30 yard marker. I have taken a couple of grouse with the phoenix though.
I just reread your reference.
Yeah, not really the same message werner. "but you must be very good at getting your range to deer accurate"
How are you achieving this without hours of practice?
I must have been writing when you were.
You answered my question.
It doesn't take hours of practice to estimate what is 10, 20, 30 yards...But that aside, for hunting, I don't guess at the range to the deer - I pick points around the stand where I expect the deer to be and measure to them. So I know if the deer is standing right at the apple pile - that's 30 yards. The little pine partway to the apple pile is 20 yards. The big rock to the south is 20. The dead pine is 15 yards behind me. Where the deer come out of the spruces is 42 yards. Markers like that...Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
So with all that knowledge of what’s required to practise in prep of a hunting season…you still agreed that the OP should buy a bow and head out with only a little more than a month left in the season…and the late winter season no less, when everything is working against you.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
That was my point….he would be better off waiting till next year when he can better prepare himself for the hunt.
Seems you agree, it's more than just shooting a good grouping into paper and heading out.
Sure its more than targets and paper. But I'd think if he spent one Saturday getting his bow figured out, set up a stand and figured out his ranges around the stand, he'd still get a few days of hunting in - I think he's in 65 and that would be 7 weekends up to Dec 31.
I guess I'm assuming he's serious about it in that late season bow hunting is a bit tougher than October - cold, bulky clothes and all.
If he waits for next year, he'll be in no better position at the start of September with the season opening October 1, albeit he'll be doing October hunting, not December hunting.
100% agree it's not Rocket Science.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Also agree 100 percent.Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE
Thankfully he's opted to wait till next year, because he 'WILL' be in a better position to hone the skills over the summer. Rushing into in now, in late Nov, with the short days and cold conditions is less than ideal, a lot more challenging and would run a greater risk of wounding a deer.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Good post. I shoot a fair bit of 3D and while it's not actual hunting it is good practice for hunting season. I've watched many people who have no problem hitting a dot on a target bag at known distances become quite humbled the first time they shoot 3D. Throw in awkward shooting positions, unknown distances, different target angles, difficult lighting conditions and a few obsticles between you and the target and it's a whole new ball game. I'm with Mike on this one. A little practical practice time before hitting the field may not be a bad idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
Maybe the best of both worlds...buy now and practice until you are comfortable... that may be next week or........ next year, never to early to start practicing... :)
At the end of the day, so long as he is legal and ethical, its all good no matter what he does.
Its really not "that" hard to shoot a x-bow and be consistent under 25, especially if you have experience shooting.
Its really not "that" hard to stand in your lanes and place small stumps or logs at 20, 30 40 or if that not an option flag trees with marking tape/other at ranges.
This is where I hunt in 47 (Loring deer yards).
The 20 is right on the trail they use (right to left in the image)
The 30 is the tree
The 40 is a stump (look carefully) and the buck I lost last year was right at it. I pinned for 41-42, ranged the shot for 43 afterwards.
The 50 is the log on the ground behind that
The Doe in the background is at 65
No ranging and little guessing involved and maybe 20 minutes work.
http://jbenphotography.ca/img/s10/v103/p396317085-6.jpg
I don't lift my bows until Ive sat in a stand, and ranged trees/other and committed them to memory.
No matter how much time someone spends practicing on the range, be it a day, be it a year the real test will be the first time a buck is in the X hairs, and no one knows until they are in the moment.
I won't get into whether it's a good idea to head out with a month left in the season and minimal experience but I would disagree that late winter has everything working against you. Other than the cold (and you can dress for that) I find this the most productive time of year to hunt:Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
- The options available for food are reduced and once identified can be very productive.
- During the last 2 weeks of december the big bucks are mostly done with the rut and are focussed on eating as much as possible from these limited sources and become easier to pattern.
- The snow makes identifying runs and bedding areas much easier.
- Much easier to see blood trails and track in the snow as well.
- Another advantage is during the last 2 weeks of december the orange army is long gone and the deer are a lot less spooky.
- Light conditions are better during the last few minutes of legal light with no leaves and snow on the ground.
- recovery via toboggan is easier than dragging on earth
- sight lines are better with better odds of detecting movement with the leaves off the trees.
- less chance of spoilage if it is an involved recovery
Guess I look at this way.
Assuming one has shot rifles, X-bows really aren't different where it matters. If one is picking up xbox for the first time ever, it really doesn't take that long. My girls were hitting vitals at the range (20 yards) pretty quick as kids with their compounds.
There is no experience that equates to being in a stand. Learning to sit still, learning the hard way, that grabbing, readying your bow at the wrong time, getting winded perhaps and seeing how they react, walking into the stand and so much more. Nothing will teach a new hunter to grunt to get a buck to stop, nothing will teach a new hunter what it is, to watch a buck come in, get closer, closer….Even if it doesn't actually get within range, or present a good shot.
So much goes in to a successful hunt before the trigger is pulled, and you only experience that in the field. He has time this season to experience buck fever and decide not to pull the trigger vs next year when (if) it hits him and he misses a great buck as a result.
A beginner has time now to get in the stand. If a limit of 20 is set and some time at the range is put in to know you can hit a donut/pie plate out to 20 over and over and over and over and over. how long that takes really depends on have you ever held a rifle before, squeezed a trigger before..But even if not, it shouldn't take too long.
Go, sit in a stand when its cold, get used to keeping movement to a minimum, not get fidgety, bored, not drink too much coffee ( or do have 3 cups and experience that to) and so much more.
If a Buck comes in close
Sooner or later that moment comes for everyone and no amount of range time replaces that and there is absolutely no law that says you have to pull the trigger. But sooner or later every new hunter must.
Oh I agree with you, it's why I enjoy the ML and late bow season so much, best time of the year for hunting.....but in terms of personal hardship issues.. bulky clothing, frozen hands, stiff muscles from sitting in the cold, frozen feet etc etc...all factors working against you hunting late season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
It takes experience and training on how to dress to keep yourself functional and able to use your bow. Most guys who first start out can't stay much longer than 2-3 rs in sub -10 degrees. Tough time to be out learning new skills.
I also agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonura
I find common ground on both points.
Yes, you can pick up a sighted in crossbow and be good enough to hit TARGETS with in 1 shot. My wife who has never shot anything before was hitting a 6'' bullseye at 50 yards free hand with my Vortex. Compound bows you need way more practice with to hit a target consistently, and recurve or long bows you have to dedicate your life to practicing with to hit targets. Three drastically different skill levels of archery, crossbows being the one that by far takes the very least amount.
However, when using a crossbow for HUNTING it takes just about the same amount of "archery hunting skill" as a vertical bow. Estimating short distances accurately in the woods in low light and on an animal takes a lot of practice. Controlling your nerves takes practice. Most importantly, picking an effective, ethical archery shot takes a lot of practice.
I'm not big on anyone without any big game hunting experience just picking up a crossbow and trying to deer hunt with it unless they're willing to get serious about the do's and don'ts of archery. A dabble into the sport with a half interest is a disaster waiting to happen. Archery hunting is much more limited and difficult than gun hunting and your nerves and judgement usually won't be controlled well enough for an ethical shot the first few times it's presented. However, if you're not new to big game hunting and know the limits of your bow and stay within them, you've got to start somewhere.
This is very true...my buddy came over to do try his 1st ever 3D shooting a few years back, he showed with his block, it looked like a porcupine with at dozen arrows in a 4" circle around the bull...."from my deck at 20 yds" he proudly proclaimed. ImpressiveQuote:
Originally Posted by TPM
We took the block out to a 16' stand and set it out 20 yds. He stood and aimed and totally missed...slight calculation the second arrow just barley hit the edge...he was so deflated. It took lots of arrows before he started to hit the centre area of the block. Lesson learned, shooting 3d from a stand is a totally different ballgame, it takes lots of practise.
Thats kind of what I'm driving at Xeon. Good post.
<<<you don't learn this stuff at the range.Quote:
However, when using a crossbow for HUNTING it takes just about the same amount of "archery hunting skill" as a vertical bow. Estimating short distances accurately in the woods in low light and on an animal takes a lot of practice. Controlling your nerves takes practice. Most importantly, picking an effective, ethical archery shot takes a lot of practice.
It's not unlike so many debates about "right to carry". You can spend all the time in the world at the range and hit centre mass. Its a whole lot different in the field. And there is only one way to find out and get that experience.
A person could buy their first bow, x-bow in April. Spend all summer at the range, get really good from 20 to 40 or 50.
October rolls around and all that excitement waiting and waiting for opening day is finally here.
Go into their stand very confident, supremely confident in their new found skills.
Still take ill an advised shot.
Still be impatient
Still lose control of their breathing.
Still have buck fever hit them hard
Still miss the vitals.
As for range, and estimating it. Honestly feel thats a red herring, a non issue.
Just as I can walk into my back yard and place a target block at 20 or 23. Go back to my shooting position and dial it in, over and over and over and over because I know the range.Anyone can spend 5 to 20 minutes and flag trees, bushes at 20 and 25 yards, and or move fallen logs, stumps.
Opps sorry wrong word, I meant to say target blocks
Looking outside with all this snow on the ground I am itching to get out and crossbow for deer. For the initial op I would look for some great deals for a used Excalibur keep your shots under 20 yards and enjoy the great outdoors. This month and December is a great time to hunt for deer with a crossbow. Only experience hunting gained is actually hunting. Real experience not target shooting. Heck this is forum is called Bowhunting for a reason.