:sad:
http://www.oodmag.com/guns-and-gear/...ton-model-887/
Printable View
As long as customer demand is there for cheap guns, they are going to keep making them.
Good for Remington getting out in front of it,quickly. Building anything cheap always comes back to haunt them. Hopefully,all manufacturers are learning their lessons.
Pretty serious recall......"a do not use" type recall.
Many firearms are manufactured cheaply and/or inexpensively. Doesn't mean they have to be inherently unsafe.
SKS, AK, Glock, Garand........
Sure seems like Rems have way more than their share of trigger issues though.
I picked one of these up as my first shotgun 3 years ago - huge mistake. Within around 4 boxes of ammo through it I started having all sorts of issues - constant stovepipe and jams on follow up shots being the worst, due to the cheap metal plate that closed off the ejector port behind the shortened bolt becoming derailed due to shotty materials. I sent a "strongly worded" email to Remington stating my concerns with the safety of the gun let alone it's inability to perform in the field, and told them I wanted an upgrade to the next model free of charge. They put me on the list to receive a brand new 870 Wingmaster once they completed the next production run - took about 5 months but I received it. Everyone I spoke to at Remington acknowledged the fact that the 887 was a highly inferior product, and I received no resistance when I asked for an upgrade. Definitely was a good learning experience in act of purchasing quality tools. Was impressed with Remington's customer service for sure.
Remington use to make great guns. The old 700, 788, 870, 1100 series were and still are great products. The new "express" line is an accountant's influence. Buy old ones and keep them forever, new ones........??????
LOL no kidding ... I was thinking just the other day that the 870 Express has "MBA" written all over it: "leverage the reputation of the Wingmaster brand," etc. Could make an interesting case study: I'd argue the attempt to capitalize on the Wingmaster brand has damaged it.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Remington has had a number of these nasty issues over the past few years. There are others out there making cheap guns without the recalls ... Mossberg makes cheap shotguns but we don't hear about these issues. I think Remington's problems go deeper than the simple consequences of reducing costs.
LMAO..cheap 870's i don't think so...I currently own six 870 expresses and have NEVER had a problem with any of them and they all get used in the field...they are not 'safe queens'...I stand by my 870's and have no problem recommending them to anyone!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brampton Mike
Guess I got one that was built on a Monday or a Friday then....and so did my Buddy.
Hard to believe it was manufactured by the same company that built my old Wingmaster.
The point with the 870 Express is that it doesn't much matter if it truly is good or bad ... it has damaged the 870 brand, regardless.
Remington's reputation keeps taking hits, which is too bad because they do make good products.
I know I have never been happier with a semi shotgun than I am with a 60's model 1100. Dad bought a 3" mag vent rib 1100 somewhere in the early to late 80s and it was IMO nowhere near the gun mine was.
Hey Excal-rookie, you must be mistaken. The Remington 887 is "the most durable and reliable shotgun ever built". Ever. It says so on Remington's website :silly:Quote:
Originally Posted by excal-rookie
"Pump Action Model 887™
Born of gunmaking expertise that brought you the best-selling, most trusted shotgun of all time – the Model 870™ – the new Model 887™ Nitro Mag is an armor-clad warrior here to carry the torch of our great pump-gun legacy through the most extreme conditions on earth. The most durable and reliable shotgun ever built, it has no external surfaces to rust. Our exclusive ArmorLokt™ construction process seals the receiver and barrel in a vault of weather-impervious synthetic armor that's both rustproof and tough as nails."
Anyone that thinks an express is anywhere near the quality of a wingmaster is sadly mistaken, I have owned both. Not even close, I currently have a S&W model 2000 pump, its a beautiful pump gun as well.
Yep,just like GM. :fish: Sorry welsh,I couldn't resist. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by welsh
The Norinco 870 clones are better built than the real deal now a days. That.... Is sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Absolutely, its at the point now where if it says Remington in the ad when looking on CGN I just skip over it. I've got a Remington hat that Im worried might even jam on me.
If they put as much stock in developing the firearm rather than that marketing spew, I may still be shooting one lol. Definitely managed to pull the wool over my eyes - lesson learned. At least now I am shooting a Wingmaster, definitely no complaints on that front.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninepointer
I have owned a few wingmasters and a couple Express versions. Loved the wingmasters and know the present owners will never part with them. if someone gave me an Express it would be sold off before sundown.Quote:
Originally Posted by excal-rookie
I think the main trouble is Remington saw other value priced manufacturers taking more market share, and decided they needed to get involved.
They however waded in to the production side with the idea that they could build the gun the same way, but either use cheaper production methods, or cheaper materials. This is obviously having disastrous results.
Unlike Savage, Mossberg etc, who designed their guns, triggers, and actions around the production methods.
It's the same as the Russians. Take an idea, build it the way you can making use of available resources with outstanding results ( T34 tank, SKS, AK47). They didn't look at a complex idea like a Panzer tank and attempt to build it on their assembly lines.
Sadly, this is contributing to the overall degradation of the brand, and there's not too many who view it in the way it was 20 years ago.
Even my 1st new gun purchase in 1997, was an 870 Express in 20g. It felt cheap back then, and the wood was crummy. I'd hate to see what they're doing with them now.
We bought an 887 NitroMag for my 17yr old son a couple of years ago. It jammed so bad at the trap range that we couldn't fix it. The whole bolt came off the rails. Sent it back INSISTING that they not send us another POS 887, but perhaps an 870.
Well a couple of weeks later we had a nice 870. "Tested and proven for years". My son proudly took it back to the range and within a few shots it JAMMED. Jammed so bad we had to disassemble it. No, I'm not kidding!
I sure felt stupid having extolled the virtues of the venerable 870 upon him.....only to have it break in the first five minutes. Out of the dozens of firearms I've had, I've only needed warranty service 4 times. Each time was for each of the 4 Remingtons I've owned.
I will NEVER buy another Remington. EVER.
Mine must've been the same as well. I started having problems with it from the 3rd round I put through it. Took it to a gun smith and he told he "I bet the ejector springs not in right, it's common in the 870 express" Sure enough he was right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbear
They are either a working man's gem... or a working man's lament.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brampton Mike
Any one positive ownership story is matched by another's negative ownership story.
870s have definitely hurt the Remington brand, just too much bad press. Whether 100% of that bad press is justified or not, well, who knows.
Just a question and only because Im curious, but why? One in every gauge?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brampton Mike
Have to admit, I wondered that one myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by mox72
Well, given the reliability of the things maybe he needs them as backup?Quote:
Originally Posted by mox72
I think the only reason that there are millions of 870 happy owners is because Remington has produced over 10,000,000 of them.
I'd guess there are at least 5 million UNhappy owners!
You think that after building over ten million of them that Remington would have maybe PERFECTED it! At least worked the bugs out ?!?!
I'll keep my B-guns, thank you.
My only experience with remington products is an 870 rifled slug gun I purchased new in the early 90s and it worked admirably and took quite a few deer. The other was a wingmaster I inhereted that was made in the late 70s and i dont think this thing had been shotas it was mint. I traded the 870 and I gave the wingmaster to my best bud when he got his hunting liscence so he had something to start out with.
My understanding is that they started to have problems after 2000 and not just the shotguns but the 700 rifle as well.
They should've recalled the 887 just based on uglyness alone. Looks like the offspring of a lada did it with a crooked log in the back of a parking lot.
They are indeed Fugly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
SuperNova wannabe! Not even close. I love my Benelli !
They did perfect it. Then somewhere along the line (late 90s? Early 2000s?) they started going with cheap parts/manufacturing process and poor quality control.Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansherpa
My 40~ year old wingmaster is a tank. Its a flawlessly built firearm which I have absolute confidence in. From the duck blind to the grouse woods to the thick swamps for deer, its gets used everywhere.
I like Ithaca 37,Ithaca the best!
Pretty sure you can still buy Wingmasters although I cant say if the quality of them has eroded as well. Your 40 year old 870 is about as good as a pump was ever made which is what makes the cr@p made now seem like a shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
I have a 37 featherlight that was my Grandfathers and I agree with you.
Late 90s.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
I know the 870 I bought in 97 was the beginning period of the downhill slide.
Is it a Wingmaster or Express?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
I was an Express.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I dumped that POS a very long time ago.
I however have nothing bad to say about my Mossberg 500.....
I used to own a Fox (double) , Savage and Remington 1100 for a number of decades . All of them worked very well but I traded them off one by one . --- During the last ~40 years my Ithaca 37 Deerslayer has been doing the chores . --- YES , that cylinder-bored barrel does everything I ask of it . At ~35 yards the pattern is still tight enough for decoyed ducks or anything-else I chose to use it on . As a bonus : It groups slugs 3-4'' AT 80 YARDS . --- Yeah , I can hear some of you scoffing ! --- Try a cylinder- or a skeet-bore for ducks some day , you might be surprised . --- Just don't stretch the range too much . --- Incidently : An average 12 gauge measures ~0.725-0.730'' . My cylinder-bore mikes at 0.695'' . --- Furthermore , the quality surpasses the Remington by far .Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf58
I've only got one, I bought it new in '87. No issues except for some worn out parts I changed a few years ago. I changed the ejector spring because it was getting thin as well as the feed rails and the slide assembly. Both had worn out and were giving me feed issues. Problem solved after that. For a gun that had never jammed or failed to feed in 25 years to give me a half dozen or so in a month indicated a problem. I have in the neighbourhood of 20-25 000 rounds through it over the years, and have dragged it through conditions while casing ducks and geese that would make many gun owners cringe. That thing goes bang, pump, bang, pump, bang every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brampton Mike
i can't speak to the Express models sold in the last give years or so, but the older ones are good solid guns.