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So I filled up in Elmvale yesterday for $99.9 cents/ltr and noticed the deisel fuel was priced 15 cents higher? When you factor the the large premium for that option on purchase and the sometimes higher price of fuel, does it really make sense as a daily driver? I get the extra towing capacity if needed but do you really net out a savings over time if you dont work it hard?
I guess for those driving VW Jetta TDI's it's worth it, over time, but I've never found that the diesel option in a truck is cost effective. Needing a diesel is one thing, but most/a lot, just use their diesel trucks to get groceries. If money was no object then I'd have no problem with the diesel option, but since I don't need one and can haul anything I use my truck for with a gasser, diesel definitely isn't worth it, for me.
The other thing to keep in mind is that in most cases, a diesel truck puts you into a whole different realm in regards to the laws of the road. Safeties, CVOR, pre-trips etc, unless you're looking at some of these ultra light duty trucks that come with diesels.
In the past diesel was always much much cheaper and diesel cars and trucks got much better millage. But today gasoline engines get almost as good mileage except when idling.
The diesel cars and trucks still get the better mileage but my question really is what is the break even point where the added purchase price and extra cost of fuel starts givjng you a return on the investment? There was a time when that option in a pickup was over $5k. You can buy allot of gasoline with $5k.
I agree except that if you take my Dodge Ram with the cummins diesel with 300,000 Kim's on it and advertise it for sale I can still get $5000 more for it than you will get for your gasser. Over the long term investment it is worth it. If you don't plan on keeping a vehical and sell or trade every couple yrs then might not make sense. Also some of us still like the sound of the diesel :) if you know about the refining of fuels, diesel is actually cheaper to produce as it's taken from the cracker way earlier in the distillering process than any grade of gasoline. Why is it more money, don't know usually cheaper during the summer so I believe it's a supply and demand more is used for heating in the winter so price goes up. That's my guess
When I bought my golf tdi almost ten years ago the diesel option was an extra 1800 bucks and diesel was only 85 cents a liter and cost me 45 bucks to fill the tank that would get me 1000kms . Today it costs me 60 bucks to fill and it still goes 1000km ,the car has 290,000 kms on her and still going strong. I will get another when this one dies as I drive just over 100kms a day to work and home so for me it is worth it.
The extra cost of a deisel is because of regulations. It's cheaper to build and repair them. But in North Americia they have tried to discourage car and truck maker from using deisel engines.
go anywheres over seas and you will find deisel engines in everything.
Unless I'm planning on putting 300 000+ km on my odometer, it doesn't economic sense to go this route..
I have yet to drive a vehicle with that many KMs on it...
You can put 300,000 km's on a gasser just as easily and with cheaper maintenance, so even that doesn't apply. Once vehicles get up to that amount of mileage (assuming the average mileage people drive is applied) it's everything else around the engine that starts to break/fail anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pijetro
I have about 205000 km's on my 05 truck now, and I plan on keeping it for another couple of years before replacing it. The truck is now 10 years old.
That is great to hear - I just bought a 2015 Golf TDI in September and sometimes I get nervous with the horror stories you read online, but I think the people who complain are the minority that have issues. Everyone that has one that I've run into in person has loves theirs. I'm in the same boat as you, long drive to work. Went with the manual, comfortline, upgraded stereo and bi-xenons :-) .Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
I put that many kms on every vehicle I own easily. I think the advantage of a diesel is to go substantially beyond 300k but as said above its the rest of the vehicle that will fall apart not the engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pijetro
I think the VW tdi are proven to be excellent investments but there really aren't too many direct competitors in that segment, at least not many that are commercially successful. Most are in the luxury class cars like Audi or MB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
I think you need to define if you are talking about diesel trucks or diesel cars.
there is a big difference in cost/returns I think.
Cars mostly. Trucks also have a definite performance advantage which cars really don't other than the mileage advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJL
Whet did you get your info from? Depends on the weight of three truck.. a 1 tone side not need a yellow sticker cvor etc... also depends on what the vehicle is used for.. commercial will require cvor and pre trip if you tow nearly anything. Personal use your okay... as long as your towing a"mobile home" (camper, fifth wheel) put a utility trailer on the back... and you now need to be more concerned about weight....Quote:
Originally Posted by last5oh_302
Part of the reason I went with the TDI Golf was the performance factor. I was looking for something that got 40 mpg+, and there were a few contenders in the gasser category, like the Fit, Yaris etc but the driving experience of the Golf is lightyears ahead. To get great mileage but also have a torquey, fun to drive car was what got me.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I definitely rack up the miles. My truck (2000 F150) is over 450,000 kms now, and the car is already over 5000.
Never met a TDI owner who didn't love the thing.
Any one ton dually brand new from the factory needs a yellow safety sticker (has to be done every year) before it leaves the lot. All I was saying is that getting a diesel truck has it's pros and cons, and since a lot people buy one ton duallies when they go diesel, it needed mentioning than there are some technicalities/added expenses that could possibly go along with moving up to a heavy duty diesel truck.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
Since this thread is mostly about diesel cars then it doesn't matter anyway.:silly:
Heavy duty diesel trucks have eight drive tires and 9 to 18 gears...Quote:
Originally Posted by last5oh_302
even a one ton is still a "light duty" truck.
You have to be towing over 5 ton to need to worry about yellow stickers..
Any pickup with a manufacturers gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4500 kg's needs an annual yellow safety sticker. Any 1 ton dually made these days and for the past 10 years has a MGVWR of more than 4500 kg. They need the sticker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Correct. Reference for this isQuote:
Originally Posted by last5oh_302
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tru...tions.shtml#Q2
So my dad's 2012 personal f350 diesel.. has a yellow sticker.... news to me and him... and it's got farm plates too....Quote:
Originally Posted by last5oh_302
Oh wait my friend has an 04 Chevy 1 tone diesel.. again no yellow... yes both duelly...
Look at the sticker on the inside of the drivers door. If the MGVWR is more than 4500 kg's (which it is) then you need the sticker and could be charged, and have the farm plates removed. Farmers don't get an exemption for safeties.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
There are plenty of pickups out there that don't have stickers but need them. It's a $240 ticket.
"Truck" includes, but is not limited to truck tractors, straight trucks, pickup trucks, curb side/cube vans, trade vans/panel trucks, and passenger vans and two and four wheel drive sport utility vehicles
> while being used to transport cargo, other than personal effects, <
with one or more of the vehicle's rear seats removed. This applies regardless of how the vehicle is plated, e.g., car, truck or farm plated.
Chipped this from that link... can't figure out how to bold it...
That's talking about passenger vans and SUVs with seats removed to move cargo.
Trust me topher, your dad needs the sticker.
my father in law had to get the yellow sticker for his half ton to pull the rv up north .thy were checking for them on the 400 hwy .D
Last time some one said that to me I ended up with nuts the size of grape fruit.Quote:
Originally Posted by last5oh_302
although he was a urologist....
That's funny.. an rv is listed as an exemption.Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
I drive a 2005 GMC crew cab dually diesel with 350,000km. Yes yellow sticker is mandatory. I will probably never own a diesel truck again, this being my second one. Maintenance and fuel costs are just outrageous. 15mpg is 15 mpg be it gas, diesel, propane or whatever. $200.00 oil change and fuel filter replacement, I have been nursing a head gasket leak for over a year as they want over $5000.00 to replace. A couple places have said to replace the injectors while the engine is out at a cost of $600.00-$800.00 per injector plus labor. So now we are well over $10,000.00 and still have a 2005 with 350,000km.
Have been told that the diesel costs more now because of the demand for furnace oil. Mentioned to the fuel gougers that I don't run furnace oil in my truck. I think it may just be the number of diesel vehicles on the road generating extra revenue for the shareholders.
outback
last5oh is right. I had a dodge dually for years and needed yellow sticker every year. as well every trailer I hooked onto needed a yellow sticker aswell. kind of gets expensive when you need to safety a few things every year. ive had several run ins with mto over the years and never had a problem with them. my stuff was always in order. now opp is a different story. lol.
outback is right on the money when you consider the cost of ownership on diesels. I wrench on my stuff but it still gets expensive. I find anything go wrong on these diesels plan to drop 1000 everytime minimum. I lost my truck in an acciedent and now own a ram 1500. the truck does the job but when you compare power between the two it doesn't compare.
That is because they don't weight 9900LBS or MORE. 4500Kg =9900LBS. If your pickup weights 9900 or more your driving a 5 ton truck. They are also list in part 6.1 as not requiring a Inspection sticker..Rv Trailers are in parts 6.2Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
I Quote:
6. What vehicles do not require annual or semi-annual inspections?
1. A motor vehicle commonly known as a recreational vehicle or a motor home, other than a motor vehicle:
- Carrying commercial cargo or tools or equipment of a type normally used for commercial purposes; or
- Carrying animals or non-commercial tools, equipment or vehicles that occupy one-half or more of its floor space.
2. A house trailer, other than a house trailer:
- Owned or leased by an employer to house the employer’s employee;
- Carrying commercial cargo, tools or equipment of a type normally used for commercial purposes; or
- Carrying animals or non-commercial tools, equipment or vehicles that occupy one-half or more of its floor space
Note: a "house trailer" includes a cabin trailer, collapsible cabin trailer, tent trailer and camping trailer.
3. Devices such as tar pots, portable welders, cement mixers, compressors, farm implements such as farm wagons, etc.
4. Bus with a GVWR of 4,500 kg or less used exclusively for personal use.
5. An empty commercial vehicle that is being operated by a manufacturer or vehicle dealer who has obtained a "special Permit" for a 10 day period as per the requirements under the HTA Regulation 628 "Vehicle Permits" does not require a sticker.
Ford f350 wet weight is between 6000lbs and 7000 lbs depending on options... if the truck is empty and not carrying anything to are UNDER 4500kg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
See my updated post. Had to post and then edit to quote from other page.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
I believe you can have the GRW lowered on your ownership down below the 4500 kg just the same as you can have a 1/2 or 3/4 ton raised in GRW. Both my 1500 and 2500 series trucks have been raised to 4495kg just under the limit that needs the yellow sticker. And yes as posted if truck has the sticker then every trailer it pulls also needs it
Go for a older diesel with no dpf egr or all that emissions crap my old Duramax gets 950 km tank 100$ on hwy with computer tunning. The newer diesel trucks power stroke cummins duramax are pigs on fuel and too much emissions crap. And mto never hassled me while towing as long as it's personal and under 11 000 lbs combined.
I'll correct you on a few points here since we went this route in the thread anyway. No, the CVOR and pre trip/log book has nothing do do with towing "nearly anything". Your truck can have an RGW of well over 4500 KG's and you can be hauling a large trailer and still get the personal use pickup exemption, meaning you don't need a CVOR, pre trip inspection or log book. As long as the power unit doesn't have a MGVWR of more than 6000 KG's you can be eligible for the personal use exemption. The personal use exemption also has nothing to do with an RV. RV's have always been exempt from just safety stickers. There are other exemptions in there for redtricted class A licenses when towing a 5th wheel RV, etc, but that only has to do with drivers license.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
Getting back to the yellow safty sticker for a sec and after saying all that, all trucks over 4500 kg's whether that be actual weight, RGW, or MGVWR require an annual yellow safety sticker, and any trailer you hook up to that truck requires a yellow safety sticker as well, unless it's an RV.
beat me to it. you will find gasser cars that will get similar mileage. but the fun factor of the TDI can't be beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGidley
that torque just pulls....
not sure about the newer Hondas, Toyota, etc. but the quality/fit and finish of earlier ones cant compare to Jettas.
Any dually made nowadays needs a yellow sticker before it rolls down the road. Just because some trucks don't have one, doesnt mean squat, just means they haven't been caught yet. Yes you could reduce the weight rating, but then why the hell are you buying a dually.
I increased my dually weight rating for my 30' gooseneck/load and my annual registration sticker is just shy of $700, then add the cvor bi-yearly, yellow safety inspections and "yellow heavy" 407 transponder and it gets expensive to roll down the road.
There's a lot of guys out there that don't have the proper licensing for hauling weight, even though they've got the truck and trailer capable with all those stickers current. On the back of your "G" drivers license it states you can drive legally with a combined weight of vehicle and trailer 11,000 kg max, with the trailer weighing 4600kg max. If you tow heavier than 4600 kgs you need an "A" or AR" license not a "G" other than recreational use. If you get caught, you won't be let off with a warning, you'll be calling for a ride and either get a tow or get someone with an appropriate license to continue with your rig, and even worse if you get in an accident, you can be damned sure your insurance is null and void as you were driving without a valid license, and if it's a bad accident, you'll pay for that until your dead.
If your combined weight of truck and trailer is over 11,000 kgs, again other than recreation, you require an "A" or AR" license, and your truck better have the proper registered weight as you need to be stopping at every weight scale if it's open wether your loaded, or completely empty, and the only person legally allowed to drive that truck is someone with an "A" or "AR" license loaded or completely empty or driving to church for that matter.
Topher, better scale that f350...... Since Ford is the heaviest dually out of the big 3, that truck weighs most likely 8400-8800 lbs. My gmc dually scales 8200 lbs and 8800 with the toolbox. If it's a gasser it'll be a little lighter, but not the 6-7000 lbs you posted.
Back to the original topic, generally the diesel option (includes the tranny upgrade as well) in a truck is approx $10k more than a gasser from new, but generally they hold that $10 k value on resale, so it's a wash in the end most times. Diesel fuel isn't priced cheaper than gas very much these days and definitely not in winter with it following heating oil prices and them having to add additives to the fuel so it doesn't gel in our northern climates. Today's gassers are getting similar or better mpgs than diesel when used as grocery getters or for the weekend warrior, but hook a trailer behind it, and that diesel will destroy the gasser. Parts or repair bills are always more expensive wether it's motor work , oil change, or just plain brakes on a diesel truck. If your not towing much or very limited, a gasser is the way to go, but if that truck is towing and working every day like it was built to do, diesel hands down is the way to go. All that being said, I will never own a gas truck even if I don't need the pulling power anymore, the lack of torque and roll on power of a gasser would make me shoot myself........ And as any oil burner or coal roller knows, " real trucks don't have spark plugs" lol
Swamp Donk has a good handle on this. Trust him topher. :)
Your engine on the diesel may last longer, may, but the rest of the vehicle components are the same. If your ball joint goes your ball joint goes, no matter what your engine is. Most of the time vehicles are not trusted anymore and scrapped because parts die on it that are not the engine.
My 1994 Camry had 347000km on it and that was still on the original clutch.
My 1998 4Runner had 284000km on it, the radiator went and put coolant into my transmission. I sold the truck and told the guy I sold it that this had happened and that I had replaced everything and flushed it. The truck is still being driven now.
Both vehicles had perfect engines with oil burning, no coolant loss, no problems.
They both had leaking steering racks. One had an iffy transmission. Shocks were going on both. Clutch was unknown on the camry.
The engine was not the reason to get rid of it.
Diesels do get better mileage but with the extra fuel cost, extra vehicle cost and extra maintenance, unless you are going to tow a pile of weight it does not really make sense. If you want a little car with great mileage they exist now and the VW diesel has a poor reputation, the newer ones.
In 2002, I bought a 2500HD Silverado Duramax diesel. Still using it today with no issues. Only has 180,000 kms. Use it to haul 5th wheeler and boat trailer. About 20 mpg while towing at 105 kph. Drops to 17-18 if I push 120. My friend has an 06 Siverado with a 6 liter gas and hauls a truck camper and boat. He keeps it around 90 kph and gets around 8 mpg. He is always amazed when with me at the fuel economy and power of my old truck.
Well said, except for the shoot myself bit ! I have a 3500 Ram with the 5.9 and I just really concentrate on taking care of the body because routine engine/drive line maintenance this might be the last ruck I will need!Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp donk
It's not normal for it to be higher
why is it that you can go to any other country in the world other then north America you see most countrys have small trucks and cars that all run on diesel .thy have so many small diesel trucks like Toyotas hilux and many others ,I would love to have a little 4x4 diesel for a hunting rig like a ranger size or s10 size .why do we not see them over here .Dutch
My understanding is that we have different emmissions laws and to make those diesel engines meet our laws is too costly.Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
This is notcorrect, I require a yellow annual sticker for both my goose trailer and 1500 Silverado.This is for personal use only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker