deworming dogs

I never bothered deworming my dogs, other than young pups, there's a lot of conflicting info out there...
I did a lot of digging and perhaps this info can be useful to others.
Here's a good summary of a few approaches.
http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/201...ogs-how-often/

if you feel like digging around on that blog - go ahead, lots of yaki stuff ;)

I have to say, I am not paranoid about worms and living with dogs. However, I personally knew a guy that almost died and had serious abdominal surgery to remove http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/echinococcosis/

BTW, if you do decide to deworm, there's lots of options using off label large animal meds for dogs, saves a lot of money, if you're comfortable determining the correct dosage.

I use SafeGuard (fenbendazole) for horses to deal with giardia and other parasites when dummy picks em up from drinking out of puddles LOL

At deer camp we use gin as a dewormer. None of us ever come home with them......

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Originally Posted by terrym

At deer camp we use gin as a dewormer. None of us ever come home with them......

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haha, that is THE best medicine..awesome

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Originally Posted by Cass

I use SafeGuard (fenbendazole) for horses to deal with giardia and other parasites when dummy picks em up from drinking out of puddles LOL

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Indeed. However, 25g of SG at Tractor Supply is $20 (while $9 in the same store in the US) and it's not even enough to treat a single dog (44 lbs in my case) with min of 3 doses (5 is usually recommended for Giardia). I just oredered liquid SG from Amazon shipped to Canada for US$33 125 ml, it's 5 times the amount in the 25 g horse paste.
How do you spell 'tight wad'? ;)

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Originally Posted by terrym

At deer camp we use gin as a dewormer. None of us ever come home with them......

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yeah, right, only at deer camp ;)

My dog gets his summer flea whatever dose but I give his stool a boot and have a look here and there . Most are easily seen including that wicked whip worm . Over the years when I've seen something even my vet has been surprised how quick I have caught it just by a simple kick of my boot to the stool . LOL:scream::D

TD

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

Over the years when I've seen something even my vet has been surprised how quick I have caught it just by a simple kick of my boot to the stool . LOL:scream::D TD

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BB...if you live in the burbs you get to pick it up and take it home with you..just throw it on the counter and have a boo....:)

We do the 'Heartguard' thing'....box of six for the year/season...the lads find far to many tasty treats in and around the farm.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

BB...if you live in the burbs you get to pick it up and take it home with you..just throw it on the counter and have a boo....:)

We do the 'Heartguard' thing'....box of six for the year/season...the lads find far to many tasty treats in and around the farm.

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LMAO Mike . No fear of doggy doo doo ending up on my counter top for inspection plus with very good training the boy doesn't do it near the house and I don't even use an e-collar . LOL:D Any tastey treats of vermin squirrels etc get thrown on my barn roof for the ravens . Even works for fish guts . Nothing wasted .:thumbup: And heah since cat is old and uses the litter box during the winter months the fecal etc matter ends up in the woodstove including chicken bones etc . Why waste it I say and less trips to the dump other than for toxic crap and recyclables . ;)

TD

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Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz

I never bothered deworming my dogs, other than young pups, there's a lot of conflicting info out there...
I did a lot of digging and perhaps this info can be useful to others.
Here's a good summary of a few approaches.
http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/201...ogs-how-often/

if you feel like digging around on that blog - go ahead, lots of yaki stuff ;)

I have to say, I am not paranoid about worms and living with dogs. However, I personally knew a guy that almost died and had serious abdominal surgery to remove http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/echinococcosis/

BTW, if you do decide to deworm, there's lots of options using off label large animal meds for dogs, saves a lot of money, if you're comfortable determining the correct dosage.

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Good post. I've never dewormed any of my dogs over the years either. They get a feces check once a year but have never had any worms.

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Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz

Indeed. However, 25g of SG at Tractor Supply is $20 (while $9 in the same store in the US) and it's not even enough to treat a single dog (44 lbs in my case) with min of 3 doses (5 is usually recommended for Giardia). I just oredered liquid SG from Amazon shipped to Canada for US$33 125 ml, it's 5 times the amount in the 25 g horse paste.
How do you spell 'tight wad'? ;)

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Careful with your "ciphering" there when you're using large animal drugs "off label". The dose of fenbendazole for dogs is 50mg/kg, so your 20kg dog needs 1000mg per dose or 1 gram. The tube of horse wormer is 25g or 25 doses for your dog.
125ml is not 5x the 25g tube of paste. ml do not equal g if you don't know the mg/ml or the mg/g

the 125ml goat dewormer is a 10% solution or 100mg/ml so you're getting a total of 12,500mg or 12.5g or 1/2 the amount of the horse tube, but in a much easier format to dose your dog

We use Strongid T that I get prescription from Vet. We do 2 dogs and five cats usually twice a year and bottle lasts a couple of years or more. I think I paid about $20.00 for the last one.
Cats seem to have worms more than the dogs. I don't think I have actually seen them in the dog stools but definitely in the cats, and knowing the dogs think nothing about picking up treats off of the ground i don't take any chances.
Stu.

You scared me there for a minute. But it's always good to double check things like that and I agree, one needs to be super-duper careful with dosage.

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The dose of fenbendazole for dogs is 50mg/kg, so your 20kg dog needs 1000mg per dose or 1 gram.

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Agree

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The tube of horse wormer is 25g or 25 doses for your dog.

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eh, the tube I am holding in my hand says 100 mg/g, so I need 10 g of paste to get 1g (1000 mg) of Fenbendazole.

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ml do not equal g if you don't know the mg/ml or the mg/g

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duh :)

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the 125ml goat dewormer is a 10% solution or 100mg/ml so you're getting a total of 12,500mg or 12.5g

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right

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or 1/2 the amount of the horse tube

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since both are 100mg/g or ml, the 125 ml is 5x the amount of drug in 25 g paste

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but in a much easier format to dose your dog

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Agree, but I have .01 g scale, so paste would not be a problem.


Here's a dosage summary from another site

Panacur/Safeguard (Fenbendazole) Dosages for Dogs

The appropriate dosage of fenbendazole for dogs is 22.7 mg/lb.

A 35-pound dog would require 794.5 mg of fenbendazole per day for 3 days in a row
(a total of 2383.5 mg)
A 40-pound dog would require 908 mg per day (a total of 2724 mg)
A 45-pound dog would require 1021.5 mg per day (a total of 3064.5 mg)
A 50-pound dog would require 1135 mg per day (a total of 3405 mg)
A 55-pound dog would require 1248.5 mg per day (a total of 3745.5 mg)

A 92 gm tube of equine Safeguard/Panacur dewormer contains a fenbendazole concentration of 10% (100 mg/g). Just as seen above, the dose is per day for 3 days in a row. Using this method with the paste will have the following dosages per weight of dog (numbers have been approximated for ease of calculation and administration:

35 lb = 8 grams of paste per day
40 lb = 9 grams of paste per day
45 lb = 10.25 grams of paste per day
50 lb= 11.5 grams of paste per day
55 lb = 12.5 grams of paste per day

This tube contains only 92 grams, so three 45-pound dogs can just barely be treated from the contents of one tube. If your dogs weigh more than this, one tube won’t be enough to treat all of them. If they weigh less, you will have some left over. Do the calculations as appropriate for your dogs’ weights. This tube of paste is a dial syringe made for horses so it can be difficult to get the exact amounts needed.


The 10% cattle and goat liquid suspension of Safeguard/Panacur has very similar dosing to the paste, one dose per day for 3 days in a row, except it is in liquid form, which makes things very easy. You can use a standard type syringe that measures in cc or mL, as these units are equivalent (i.e. 1 cc = 1 mL). The dosing is as follows:

35 lb = 8 mL of liquid per day
40 lb = 9 mL of liquid per day
45 lb = 10.25 mL of liquid per day
50 lb = 11.5 mL of liquid per day
55 lb = 12.5 mL of liquid per day

The suspension is available in 125 mL bottles, 1 liter (1000 mL) bottles, and 1 gallon (3785 mL) bottles.
A 125 mL bottle will treat approximately five 35-pound dogs, four 40-45-pound dogs, or three 50-55 -pound dogs. Of course, this is just a rough estimate to give you an idea of what one 125 mL bottle can treat.
A liter can treat 41 35-pound dogs, 37 40-pound dogs, 32 45-pound dogs, 29 50-pound dogs, or 26 55-pound dogs… etc.
A gallon can treat approximately 123 45-pound dogs… etc.



Cost Effectiveness (Price Comparisons of each formula type)

Prices used are from the Jeffers Pet website and are evaluated using the 45-pound dog just for sake of demonstration. These prices compare the Safeguard granules available for canines, the Safeguard equine paste, and the Safeguard cattle/goat suspension. Safeguard and Panacur are very similarly priced. These are the top two brands of fenbendazole commercially available.

Canine granules are:
1 box of (3) 1 gram packets is $5.49
1 box of (3) 2 gram packets is $7.49
1 box of (3) 4 gram packets is $12.99
A 45-pound dog would require 1 box of 1 gm packets and 1 box of 4 gm packets in order to receive the appropriate dose. This would cost $18.48 to treat ONE dog.

Horse paste tubes are:
1 92 gram tube is $24.49.
This tube is capable of treating three 45-pound dogs. This equals to a cost per treatment of $8.16 per dog.

Cattle/goat suspension bottles are:
125 mL bottle is $17.95
1 liter (1000 mL) bottle is $112.45
1 gallon (3785 mL) bottle is $378.95
A 125 mL bottle can treat four 45-pound dogs, which equals to a cost of $4.49 per dog. A liter bottle can treat 32 45-pound dogs, which equals to a cost of $3.52 per dog. A gallon bottle can treat 123 45-pound dogs, which equals to a cost of $3.09 per dog.

As you can see, it is much more cost effective to purchase the gallon of cattle/goat suspension. The least cost effective method of treatment are the canine granules.

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php/109894-Safeguard-Panacur-%28Fenbendazole%29-Dose-for-Dogs

My apologies for impugning your math skills. I had wrongly assumed you were using a larger sized paste containing 25g of fendbendazole.

Funny coming across this. Yesterday i went to a pet store to get some de-wormer for our cat. Of course the vets say that the stuff you buy in those stores is useless so of course you're forced to buy the expensive (at least around here) stuff from the vet, and they will only give it to you if the pet has been in for a check up within the last year. What a racket.

So the lady at Pet Smart shows me a 400g jar of food grade Diatomaceous Earth, a fossil shell flour, which I'm familiar with for insect control in gardening. It's a a natural alternative for the treatment of fleas, ticks etc. externally, and parasites internally. Also reported to help for shinier coat, healthier skin, stronger nails, colon cleanser and digestive aid. She tells me that's all her mom uses for four cats. I decide to try it. Its the same consistency as baking soda.
When I got home I spent more than an hour researching DE online. Turns out it has a decent following in pet and livestock owners who prefer not to put chemicals in their animals. Lot's of positive reports/comments on websites of testing zero for worms, and from farmers and horse owners who report far less manure with much less odor as the animals, (people use it too) absorb the nutrients much better due to the cleansing of the slime that builds up in the digestive track. So it goes...Also results in lower vet bills. It actually is a good method for indoor dusting for the control of fleas and other buggers.
The only sort of negative stuff I found came from the medical community, of course. The normal line about natural/holistic methods not having gone through the extensive (read expensive, it's part of the whole industry) testing required. Hence why they cannot make certain claims on the product like a pharmaceutical can.


Anyway, I just thought I'd toss this into the equation. I know there are dog owners here who feed their buddy a raw meat diet as a natural, healthier alternative to the dog food industry. If the claims are at all valid it could well be a good supplement to add to our dogs diet. My Toller and wifeys cat are now on it so I'll see for myself.

Cheers

"they will only give it to you if the pet has been in for a check up within the last year. What a racket. " quote

There is a good reason for this. They don't want to give out a dewormer based on our diagnosis when there could be other things wrong with your dog too.

I can't go to my GP and ask for blood pressure pills based on my measurements on my home device. Who knows what else could be wrong.

They must be cautious as there is always some one ready to sue them for ..........................

I never get very concerned about vet fees. If I didn't trust my vet I wouldn't be there. If we got a printout of what OUR medical visits cost , we would be more understanding. Because we never see those OHIP bills , vet fees annoy many people.

Apparently there now is a site where you can see what your GP/tests medical bills are for the year.

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Originally Posted by smitty55

So the lady at Pet Smart shows me a 400g jar of food grade Diatomaceous Earth, a fossil shell flour, which I'm familiar with for insect control in gardening. It's a a natural alternative for the treatment of fleas, ticks etc. externally, and parasites internally.

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Thanks for that heads up, I used to work in a livestock feed store and they sold it there in these huge 50lb bags. Lots of local farmers use the stuff for the beef they feed their family's. I didn't know you could get a smaller source from a Pet food store.

We use Strongid T regularly, and once a year everyone gets Valbazen. Too much livestock, too many dogs on the property and plenty of coyotes and foxes around. We haven't lost a dog to worms, but friends in the southern states (where we go with our dogs several times a year) have lost them to hook worms and whip worms. Not worth taking the chance around here. I keep meaning to get a few big bags of DE, I have no problem dosing the dogs with that stuff and mixing up modes of action. I will also dust the ground in and around the kennels with it to prevent fleas.
If you do worm talk to the vet and make sure you mix up your drugs a bit. Not all "broad spectrum" de-wormers get everything, and there are places in the southern states with parasite populations that are resistant to the more common drugs of choice. Be proactive and mix it up.

Heartguard. I know it can be expensive. I even gave them a couple extra months as they are outside from 7am to 9pm off lead at the camp. I think it's more for me. I did ask our old vet why did she need to test for worms if we used what she prescribed. I know what Sharon is saying but that vet couldn't even convey that. One of the dogs was a eater too so I paid for heart guard.

We did have a vet close to home but now come to one by the camp in bancroft. It is convenient as we put a lot of time in up here. The price difference is astonishing. This week's visit:
$35 to determine one dog doesn't have cancer cell. That would have been $80 at least back home.
$80 to put or old fella of 16 years down on boxing day. When we called back home it was $180. No specials.

The heart guard and spring check up was about a 50% drop up north.

MY understanding of using DE for internal parasites is that it doesn't work inside an animal for that purpose - the environment is too wet DE kills a bug by scratching it body - the DE is very sharp but internally when it gets wet it doesn't do that - it may have other benefits but internal parasites - no


I watch a program on TV called The Monsters Inside Us - it comes on down here every Thursday - it goes through true stories of people who end up with parasites - it scares the heck out of you when you see the problems people have from getting some kind of parasite - some people actually die - there was a story about this girl who was going blind in her one eye - finally a eye doctor checked and found a worm in the back of her eye - it showed the doctor operating on her eye and getting a hold of the worm - he slowly started pulling out the worm very carefully so it wouldn't break off - he kept pressure on the worm and it gradually slowly came out - 8 inches long - it was a heart worm that the girl got from a dog - I think that if you have a pet around the house it is a good bet to have a stool sample checked by a vet at least once a year - and if a dog to get some heart worm medicine

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I watch a program on TV called The Monsters Inside Us - it comes on down here every Thursday - it goes through true stories of people who end up with parasites - it scares the heck out of you when you see the problems people have from getting some kind of parasite - some people actually die - there was a story about this girl who was going blind in her one eye - finally a eye doctor checked and found a worm in the back of her eye - it showed the doctor operating on her eye and getting a hold of the worm - he slowly started pulling out the worm very carefully so it wouldn't break off - he kept pressure on the worm and it gradually slowly came out - 8 inches long - it was a heart worm that the girl got from a dog - I think that if you have a pet around the house it is a good bet to have a stool sample checked by a vet at least once a year - and if a dog to get some heart worm medicine

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I watched the same show , interesting and scary "what you can get and from where ".

I can recommend you this way to get rid of worms. A veterinarian friend told me about a dog dewormer called fenbendazole. It’s branded as Fenben LAB and can be ordered online.
shop of pure pba

I have also used pumpkin seeds, ground into a fine powder.

My GSP had some intestinal worms a few months ago, and they were eliminated.

"Pumpkin seeds contain the amino acid cucurbitin, which works to paralyze and eliminate parasites from your dog’s digestive tract. Feed the seeds whole, or grind and add to food. Give your dog one-quarter teaspoon per ten pounds of body weight once or twice daily until the worms are gone. Using pumpkin seeds instead of veterinary dewormer will allow you to avoid dosing concerns and side effects such as diarrhea, vomiting or allergic reaction. Pumpkin seeds are a safe dewormer and also provide quality protein, amino acids and many nutrients."