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Hi guys, so I found a ATV, good condition and low KM's and fits my budget. Nice right, wrong he has no ownership and hes the second owner. How hard is it to get the ownership tansferred if he does not have the papers.
Also, if I plan to use this for icefishing do I need plates on it to drive on the ice, i know I will need insurance. Any help is greatly apprciated
You need the machine to be licensed & insured to use it on the ice. No ownership run away!!!
Like I said in the other thread....you can get ownership, we did it this summer with an ATV we bought at an estate auction, but you don't want to be standing there when they run the vin....make him do it :)
Take a tip from me, if he can't provide an ownership. Don't buy the machine. This should be self explanatory
People lose ownerships, it happens, I lost the one to my sled, (found it after the sale) took pictures of the machine, vin, etc, we went to the service center together, and got it taken care of.
Doesn't mean he's a shady person, and it can be overcome, but go together, to ensure that everything is on the up and up if this is the machine you want.
I think I can tell you my experience, for sure you need to register the ATV before you can buy insurance. I bought a 1987 without Honda ATV 3 years ago without ownership, I just go to service Canada with the bill of sales, they ask me go to the dealer to ask for a proof of the ATV with the Vin number, just to clarify it wasn't been stolen. I paid $50 for that proof then went back to service Canada to issue the ownership. But one of my friend told me he just get the ownership right away although the guy sold him the ATV without ownership. I think it;s better for you to go and check with them. After that I just search for insurance on internet, cause the insurance company for my house doesn't insure ATV, finally I purchase the insurance with TD, not bad $137 for a year. it's much cheaper then a ticket. Hope it help.
One more thing, if you go the the lake need to go though a trail then you need to purchase the Trail Pass too.
We see these ad's all the time. "For Sale" "no ownership....." Then they go on about how easy it is to get one. If the seller is the legitimate owner, they will have little trouble getting a new one. Tell the seller to go and get it and then you'll consider buying it. Until then, stay away!
Exactly TR. You are the owner. You can provide info to prove it's your machine. A new buyer can't do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyRookie
Check for "liens" or "stolen" before you pay any money to anyone. It can all be done with one visit to Service Ontario. Once they're satisfied,they will issue a new registration card and plate. After that,call your insurance company. Bear in mind,if you send the ATV to the bottom of a lake,your insurance will be cancelled,outright. Think long and hard before you take it out on the ice.Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhunter
Oh,yeah....what Bushmoose said. Don't make a mistake.
It is very easy to get an ownership..
Take bill of sale to mto.. swear that the info is correct.. (cost is about $20) give them vin.. buy used vehicle package.. pray not reported stolen... then transfer vehicle to your name... buy new ownership... costs about$30 more than with ownership..
I do this about once a year
Last vehicle I did was a trailer from 1979...
Trailer had never been registered.
I run for the woods when I hear that . a machine without ownership the price gets cut in half . I had the same issue and got burned a few years back . guy had a nice Polaris bike he wanted to sell . met him at a gas station half way in between where he said he loved and my place. Checked over the bike , everything looked awesome . he stated the same thing no ownership older guy didn't look shady at all so I didn't think anything of it. Went in a few days later to get owner ship they ran the Vin . stolen . gave the police all the info , lost the bike lost my money and all the info I had on this guy was false even the bill of sale he put a fake name.
Be very careful this guy was very believable not once did I think it was a stolen machine and I got screwed
If you are the registered owner all you need to do is give the MTO your drivers license and they can pull up all vehicles that are in your name, no problem at all, even if you have lost your paperwork.
And that is the reason to stay away from these "no ownership" deals. If the seller say's it easy to get one, then tell him to go and get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat32rf
Usually get vehicle package before buying it... I've bought vehicles that haven't been licensed ever... pretty hard to get an ownership when no one knows the original owner.. a bike I bought the owner have it it his son.. shoo did nothing with it for two years.. father died.. (in Norway) how do you get an ownership from the original owner than? Just don't pay for the own until you have the used vehicle package..Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
Well this guy ain't in Norway and he ain't dead, why make a guy take a chance, make the the present owner do the leg work, very simple. :whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
Thanks for everyone's help. I emailed the guy and he said he will look into it. Didnt really like his answer so I guess the hunting for a used ATV starts again
I know the good old saying is, just do it your self. Well......don't! Get the right paper work first and then drop the cash.
If you are a serious potential buyer and he doesn't want to produce the ownership, walk away and don't look back! What ATV was it and what are you looking for?
Also, make sure you are familiar with where the vins are located on each machine, make sure they match, there are great forums for each brand that have GREAT info on known issues for each make/model/year
Konabiker, it was a Yamaha Kodiak. Im looking for a 4X4 ATV, dont really care about a winch cause I have a brand new here I bought years ago and never used it. Electric start, auto would be nice. Open to all models
I posted this a few weeks ago
Looking at buying a sled, and checked the web to see if VIN can be checked. Website below:
http://app.cpic-cipc.ca/English/search.cfm
For snow machine check here, was surprised at the amount info you can glean with a VIN, buyer beware..
Search Vehicles by VIN (Vehicle Identification Number)
You may search for autos, trucks, vans, SUVs, motorcycles, snowmobiles, farm vehicles, heavy equipment, trailers, or ATVs. Please enter only letters and numbers without spaces or other special characters.
Well, I had the Yamaha Grizzly 450 and simply loved it. In canada they are called Kodiak and they are the same thing. All have electric starters and are automatic. Also have the pull cord for emergencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhunter
OPP uses them and they go for sale in auctions once in a while but no "good deals" can be found in auctions if you ask me!
The Yamahas have a 4 wheel differential lock that will enable you to go anywhere under any conditions pretty much, and all you'll need is aggressive tires to help you along. Also Yamaha models have great ground clearance which I like.
As soon as I get my hands on some $$$ I will be running to the dealer to buy a new one, because I believe that a new machine can give me quite a few years of service before anything goes wrong, and I am very good with taking care of stuff.
As for insurance, I never insured mine and never ran into any trouble on the lakes or off-road. Not advocating it, but that's simply my personal experience. I'd never buy one if the seller can't provide ownership anyway.
Did the OPP ever ask for your papers to find out that you had no insurance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat32rf
Unless you use your ATV exclusively on private property and it's never used to even cross a roadway,it must be registered,licensed and insured the same as any other vehicle. The penalty for operating a motor vehicle without proof of insurance (pink card) is $500; without insurance,it's $5000. It's just blind luck that you haven't been checked by either the Police,CO or an MTO officer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman
...and if you get hit by another vehicle on an uninsured ATV, you will have no right to a claim against the other driver even if they are 100% at fault if you have no insurance of your own...that caveat even applies to atv's insured as farm equipment under farm insurance policies...Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
That's one heck of a chance to take. Insurance can be found for under $300/ year.
Yes a big chance to take and if in an accident you take the chance of losing everything you have acquired in your lifetime .
I was being checked on ice and back to shore twice last year at Scugog and Kempenfelt . One time they just look for the plate, second time they asked for insurance. Lucky I always have both with me all the time.
I've been checked once in fifteen years, happened to be on private property and got nailed because my helmet was on my lap instead of my head. We were carrying gear between two vehicles about 100' apart.....getting ready to head into the bush on a fishing trip.
I didn't think they could give you a fine on private property for something like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat32rf
They can if you're on a provincial trail that crosses private property,but,if you're just rodding around on a farm or private lot,either your own or with the owners permission,they can't. The Highway Traffic Act and Motorized Snow Vehicles Act don't apply in that instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I thought I could get off as well, until I talked to a JP who showed me my error. While it was private, the owner did not know I was there. The cop didn't even know it was private, but they were having a " blitz" and since he was from out of the area he just stopped whoever he saw and wrote up everything he could. A local cop would have just looked at my papers, asked about the fishing and told me to put my helmet on before heading down the trail.....
i don't know what act it comes under, but if we had been drinking, we could have been nailed, even on private property WITH the owner.
When I am camping at Bissett Creek (which is all crown) only 25% wear helmets. Personally I don't like helmets but I hate fines even more not worth my time to fight over that put the helmet on.
Can't see or hear as well with my helmet on, canoe rack forms roll bar, top speed is about 10mph when loaded to go fishing, or around my own property. Still must wear helmet " for our own good"!
Once you reach a certain age, some of the regs should be replaced by the experience of life!
There's a bell curve to that Pat...once you approach the 'Grey' age you need to start wearing the safety stuff more often :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat32rf
My wifes (an ER nurse) nagging to wear my safety equipment has saved me from losing a few appendages, a split second of forgetfulness is all it takes. It works on my buddies too...they don't want to have to go see her at the ER and have to explain why they are there ..LOL..
Absolutely! Once you cross the threshold from the Provincial HTA to the federal Criminal Code,all bet's are off,private property or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat32rf
I think the best helmet related charge came to an unlucky bunch that decided to ride their Rhino UTV through town a couple years ago. Charged for riding on a public roadway (not considered an atv), helmets improperly fastened and not wearing seatbelts. Id love to know how that one turned out in court.
So they get tickets for being on a public roadway w/o seatbelts because its not an ATV, but also tickets for no helmets riding an ATV? That would be interesting. I guess the cop was just covering all the bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
I disagree wholeheartedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat32rf
Think of the young lad who looks up to his grandpa, who at an impressionable age, sees grandpa doing something like not wearing a helmet......Timmy knows grandpa is wise, and smart in all things outdoors, so Timmy gets the idea that helmets are just an inconvenience.
It's the older wiser members of our group who need to uphold the standard for everyone to see, not relaxing the rules as we age.
Yes. The cop got them with everything he could. From the little bit I saw the two in the Rhino were quite repecting towards the officer, then again this cop does have a bit of a complex going on. Hes well known for harassing locals too.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
No I disagree . I am Grandpa and you do as I say not as I do . Just like I light fires doesn't mean he gets too . LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Is it harassing OR enforcement if you ARE breaking the law?Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Timmy will know that Grandpa does a lot of dumb stuff. Mom and Grandma will make sure he (and everyone else) know this.Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Some Grandpa's take it on as their job to show the grandkids what happens when you make bad choices - so the grandkids don't have to figure out everything first hand.
Disclaimer - I am not a Grandpa - but I don't need a crystal ball to see this coming.
How is your long legged pony today?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
harassment would be continually pestering people who are NOT breaking the laws! If someone is breaking a law that would be enforcement. Glad I could help clarify for you.
Eg. The only dealing I had with the sawed off punk was when I was pulled over for doing 75kph on an unmarked rural road.
If he is handing out tickets ,then I would assume he was upholding the law. Do they hand out tickets for NOT breaking the law?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
LOL. OK grandpa.
Not being a part of that club yet, maybe I'll feel differently when I'm there.
Police do routinely break the laws my street is a posted 80 km/hr Police never do less then 100 km/hr. I drive it at 85 km/hr and they pass me all the time must be in a hurry to stop for the coffee as that's where they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I did not get a ticket.... how is he going to ticket me for 75 in an 80?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
This is true...but if he just lost it for 10 bucks he could have got or can get another one............if the guy is not willing to get the ownership for you run as fast as you can.....I had this on a camping trailer...and luckily I know the person who runs the lisence office so was able to talk to him before I actually purchased it. Its a bit different for a camping trailer I suppose in the sense that you cannot even legally tow it without having the insurance where an atv I guess you could slap on a trailer and haul away......if you were just usin it to toot around your own farm or something maybe but not in a million yrs if its going anywhere other then that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyRookie
I thought you -we were talking about the guys in town on their Rhino utv. How was that harassment? They got tickets and I bet at least one of them stuck.
LOL Your time will come Bluebulldog . I don't wear a bell either when public skating but they sure do . They remind me to though Lol . I just tell them I was grandfathered in so don't have too LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Seemed we were talking harassment.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Either way. Im sure you are right. One of them stuck. If that is the case then only the one ticket should have been issued. The cop was being a little too antlered with this scenario. This area is a rookie training ground and I suppose he's trying to earn a bigger pair of boots.
That's why we have courts, and they are called charges. Many tickets of all types are thrown out in court. If the same leo has many -most of his tickets tossed, you can bet he will have to answer for that with his superiors.
Too many of our was have been passed to protect those who are too inexperienced/stupid/drunk to do it themselves. Many cops realize that there are cases where a helmet, safety belt, life jacket, etc are not needed and the operator is being careful because they do not have the helmet, seat belt etc.
In my case the cop didn't care that a helmet was no benefit where we were, at the speed I was moving and it was obvious that I was only going 100' between the two vehicles while we loaded our gear, BUT what I was doing was illegal and he had travelled 100 km from his home detachment(Odessa) on the Easter weekend just to write tickets for this sort of thing....
He was enforcing the letter of the law, useless as it was...
Yes - Killaloe is very much an OPP training ground and has a lot of problems because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
If a cop is writing tickets he know will not stick - that is harassment. I got an unfair ticket once and had the "points" guy handle it. He got the cop on the stand to tell his version. After that he asked the judge to have the charge dismissed. The judge dismissed it and told the cop he should be ashamed of wasting the courts, his and my time.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Wow! Really? What an ignorant comment! Lets say my Im not wearing my seatbelt and I get pulled over and ticketed for no seatbelt, speeding even though I wasn't and a taillight out even though all lights are working. By your way of thinking it is o.k. that I now have to take a day off from work to go fight the ticked because some brain dead punk was having a bad day?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Give me a break! That attitute is why the general public has an issue with leo's and why when a kid sees a cop they always play shy like the cop is a bad person. Great way to run a campaign of fear.
Yes! Seeing this is exactly why after passing the preliminaries I decided the OPP was not the prfession for me. Watching the way the know it alls fresh out of their big 13 weeks of training handle themselves is sickening at times. If I would have to act in such a manner toward others....no thanks. Respect should be earned not demanded.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Good thing we have a few decent older cops around.
I thought this thread was about no ownership not fines,as in the last 3 pages.
You know how these threads go.. by page 20 will be talking about pickles or something else. :):joker:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaspumper
I usually stop paying attention after page 7... after that it becomes a Terry/Gilroy argument...Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
just went through this. there is a website where you can check the vin to make sure its not hot. I searched vin check and it brought up the site and it is free. you will have to pay to get a new copy of the ownership. bring a bill of sale it cost me around $100 for everything including plate. Good luck
So How about if you buy an ATV are you are provided a signed ownership with a vin of course but when you look at the big you notice the vin has been ground off the frame and the vin sticker is missing as well
I would suggest starting a new thread as this situation would leave you in a very complicated spot. Many members just won't read thru 5-6 pages of argument but would find your situation interesting. Personally I believe that it would come under the same situation as a defaced serial number on a rifle.