Growling Lab

My 1 year old lab has developed a bad habit that I am seeking advise on.

When I am home she is golden & behaves very well. Probably because I am the one who did all the obediance training with her. I have spent many hours with her training & I execise her for a min of 1hr a day off leash in fields or the bush & she behaves very well & take her rabbitt hunting. She is a champ of a dog in the field.

When I am not home she is a total bratt. She finds something to steal like a sock/pillows/eye glasses/laptops or basically anything she can carry & plays keep away with my wife & daughters. She knows these items are off limits & she clearly knows this gets a rise out of them.

I have taught her the "leave it" command & if I am home I give the command & she drops whatever she has.

When I am not home she will stand her ground & growls @ the girls. She eventually gives up & drops it but I am afraid she will bite one of these times when they go to grab the item.

She is a smart cookie & knows when I am not around.

Has any-one ever experianced this before & what did you do?

It sounds like a classic power struggle. She recognizes you as being the alpha, and of course will behave for you, but being female, she's actually trying to compete with the other females in the home to determine who's dominant.

My wife had the same issue a few years ago with a pointer I had. Part of this training is ensure that when you're home, your wife and daughters spend time training her ( not just you). She needs to understand that they are going to be higher than her in pecking order. This includes making sure that if she is to receive discipline, that they deal it out with you present, so she understands that this is your will as well.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

It sounds like a classic power struggle. She recognizes you as being the alpha, and of course will behave for you, but being female, she's actually trying to compete with the other females in the home to determine who's dominant.

My wife had the same issue a few years ago with a pointer I had. Part of this training is ensure that when you're home, your wife and daughters spend time training her ( not just you). She needs to understand that they are going to be higher than her in pecking order. This includes making sure that if she is to receive discipline, that they deal it out with you present, so she understands that this is your will as well.

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What he said ^^^

Your dog is at the age where it is trying to establish dominance and typically children and sometimes wives aren't as alpha as you. I would buy an e'collar and have it wear it and anytime it shows any type of attempt at dominance or growls ZAP it hard. You need to break this habit immediately.

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Originally Posted by terrym

What he said ^^^

Your dog is at the age where it is trying to establish dominance and typically children and sometimes wives aren't as alpha as you. I would buy an e'collar and have it wear it and anytime it shows any type of attempt at dominance or growls ZAP it hard. You need to break this habit immediately.

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...I didn't want to mention the e-collar, but using that, as well as making my wife actually physically push the dog onto the ground and hold her neck actually breaks it pretty darn quick.

My golden has been growling at my daughter who has been rough housing the dog since they were both babies. It really worried me in the beginning and I tried to train it out of her by having my daughter be dominate in my presence and correcting both of them along the way. This was to no avail. It turns out its just how my dog likes to play. 8 years on, and the dog has never bitten my 10 year old daughter, but still growls when they play. Of course there has been incidents where they were both reaching for a ball or when pulling on a toy and the dog tries to re-grip. These have only been little scuffs or abrasions on my daughters fingers all done by mistake on the dogs part, and carelessness on my daughters part.

Be careful and don't assume you can trust your dog as I do mine, make sure the dog knows who's boss.

I use to have my daughter feed the dog, and interrupt the dogs meal by taking away the food, a lot in the beginning, and occasionally throughout the years, just to be sure all is good.

Good Luck!

MC

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Originally Posted by mastercaster

My golden has been growling at my daughter who has been rough housing the dog since they were both babies. It really worried me in the beginning and I tried to train it out of her by having my daughter be dominate in my presence and correcting both of them along the way. This was to no avail. It turns out its just how my dog likes to play. 8 years on, and the dog has never bitten my 10 year old daughter, but still growls when they play. Of course there has been incidents where they were both reaching for a ball or when pulling on a toy and the dog tries to re-grip. These have only been little scuffs or abrasions on my daughters fingers all done by mistake on the dogs part, and carelessness on my daughters part.

Be careful and don't assume you can trust your dog as I do mine, make sure the dog knows who's boss.

I use to have my daughter feed the dog, and interrupt the dogs meal by taking away the food, a lot in the beginning, and occasionally throughout the years, just to be sure all is good.

Good Luck!

MC

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I agree with what you are saying. There is playful growling and agressive growling. My dog will growl with me when roughhousing but it isn't an aggressive move at all. But if that is not the case with this lab then it's a big problem. My dog will grab his chew toy bring it to me with tail wagging and growl. That is him saying "I'm bored, bring it on" and then we have at it.

Try looking into a good positive reinforcement training club or ask for some advice from a real trainer. Some of advice being offered here is just downright scary to say the least.

Involving your family in the training sounds like a good idea, but based on your description, it sounds like the dog doesn’t follow their commands. I doubt that training her when you are around will change that; i.e. dog will look at you and you have to confirm the command before he will obey (to you). Therefore, you would have your family train the dog without you – and depending on what they do, it may change how the dog reacts to your commands in the field.
The e-collar is a good back up plan. However, again if the dog doesn’t follow the command because of the pecking order there is some limitation and a risk that it's use could be counterproductive to your training. Although, good for the back pocket, not the primary solution IMHO. Additionally, the e-collar raises the whole question of how you dicipline your dog. Not getting into this here...
On the other hand, you can’t go wrong with food. Let only the ladies feed the dog! Make sure that the dog realizes who is feeding him (not you). Not a fast solution by any means, but easy & fool proof.
Perhaps, combine all three and stop #1 and #2 if anything appears to be just slightly off when you are with her.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

It sounds like a classic power struggle. She recognizes you as being the alpha, and of course will behave for you, but being female, she's actually trying to compete with the other females in the home to determine who's dominant.

My wife had the same issue a few years ago with a pointer I had. Part of this training is ensure that when you're home, your wife and daughters spend time training her ( not just you). She needs to understand that they are going to be higher than her in pecking order. This includes making sure that if she is to receive discipline, that they deal it out with you present, so she understands that this is your will as well.

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Good advice... Another thing you could try to rearrange the pecking order is skip feeding the dog for a couple of days and then have your wife or daughter take over feeding the dog - then feed him a bit less than he's used to for a few weeks so he learns to appreciate who's providing the food for him.

The food suggestion worked in our household. The dog wanted to dominate the two teens but once they started serving the dish, making him sit and stay, shaking a paw, etc. before he was allowed to touch his food resolved the situation. He soon realized he better behave with them or else it was going to be an empty and "growling" stomach.....lol

Thanks for the advise. Funny she is not food aggresive at all. All of us can put our hands in her dish & she has no issues with that. She sit's and waits for the OK from all of us before eating. Same with bones & toys.

This is strictly possesion of non-allowed items that causes the warning growl.

This Sunday we are all going back to the trainers for some tips (K921st century in Amherstburg Ont).
We trained her with the prong collar & the trainer has said via e-mail to leave it on with a 6 foot leash when I am not home so that they can reach for the leash & correct her. This is similar to the e-collar in a sense. So far I have not needed an e-collar for training but I am not ruling it out as a tool for training.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by impact

The food suggestion worked in our household. The dog wanted to dominate the two teens but once they started serving the dish, making him sit and stay, shaking a paw, etc. before he was allowed to touch his food resolved the situation. He soon realized he better behave with them or else it was going to be an empty and "growling" stomach.....lol

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Excellent. I do this too and never a problem with any of my dogs.. I do the sit and stay, put food down, I can walk around the house a few times if I want and she won't touch her food until she hears "OK". My girl is 7 months old now and she's been doing this since before she was 3 months old.

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Thanks for the advise. Funny she is not food aggresive at all. All of us can put our hands in her dish & she has no issues with that. She sit's and waits for the OK from all of us before eating. Same with bones & toys.

This is strictly possesion of non-allowed items that causes the warning growl.

This Sunday we are all going back to the trainers for some tips (K921st century in Amherstburg Ont).
We trained her with the prong collar & the trainer has said via e-mail to leave it on with a 6 foot leash when I am not home so that they can reach for the leash & correct her. This is similar to the e-collar in a sense. So far I have not needed an e-collar for training but I am not ruling it out as a tool for training.

Jeff

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An e-collar is nothing but a long leash... wouldn't be my priority right now. You said that the dog will behave around food flawlessly and obey to commands from all family members, but not around high priced items - high priced to your family. So really, the dog could not care less about these items, she only cares about the attention she gets when taking them away. You also said you exercise her an hour a day. Physically excercise is important, but only one part of the game. Maybe the dog needs a bit more mental/emotional excercise, which she seems to have when you are around, but no excitement for her when you are gone.
Hard to say, jsut a thought.

"This Sunday we are ALL going back to the trainers for some tips (K921st century in Amherstburg Ont)." quote

What a great idea!
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As Weiner-Reiche said better than me. See his post.
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Same at my house but not a growling problem . My husband is not respected by the dog because he let's anything go, calls him and doesn't follow through and doesn't praise for good behaviour. That's him; that's the way it is.

Not that uncommon. Have the girls feed the dog. They make her sit, wait for a minute and then put the food down.

If the dog is only growling when it has an item and the girls want it , I'd say it is just playing.... one year old. jmo

PS I wouldn't use an e collar for that problem , but jmo

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Excellent. I do this too and never a problem with any of my dogs.. I do the sit and stay, put food down, I can walk around the house a few times if I want and she won't touch her food until she hears "OK". My girl is 7 months old now and she's been doing this since before she was 3 months old.

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"I do this", "I do the sit and stay", "I can walk around the house".....

The OP doesn't have a problem with him, it's his family.

You disagree with others advice, and then are insulting and call it scary? Nice. Dogs, contrary to your opinion on other posts are pack animals, they need to fit into a hierarchy. Some breeds do very well with positive reinforcement, some do not. Ever trained a Chesapeke Bay Retriever?

Positive reinforcement is always the best training tool, however in the event that a dog begins to test out where is sits on the ladder, often with behavioral issues being attached there needs to be a definite behavior correction, you cannot simply positively reinforce whenever the dog does what mom, or daughter commands. This doesn't have to be an e-collar ( In fact I've trained some harder breeds, using one sparingly, but don't own one anymore). It can often be a more minor behavioral correction.

Originally Posted by impact http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...post-right.png The food suggestion worked in our household. The dog wanted to dominate the two teens but once they started serving the dish, making him sit and stay, shaking a paw, etc. before he was allowed to touch his food resolved the situation. He soon realized he better behave with them or else it was going to be an empty and "growling" stomach.....lol

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Excellent. I do this too and never a problem with any of my dogs.. I do the sit and stay, put food down, I can walk around the house a few times if I want and she won't touch her food until she hears "OK". My girl is 7 months old now and she's been doing this since before she was 3 months old.

.......... quote LastOh5
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Good on you. Well done.

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"making my wife actually physically push the dog onto the ground and hold her neck actually breaks it pretty darn quick" .........

If this works for you that is great , but to suggest it for an untrained dog family( kids and wife) - which is the problem - not the owner- is not a good idea - just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

"I do this", "I do the sit and stay", "I can walk around the house".....

The OP doesn't have a problem with him, it's his family.

You disagree with others advice, and then are insulting and call it scary? Nice. Dogs, contrary to your opinion on other posts are pack animals, they need to fit into a hierarchy. Some breeds do very well with positive reinforcement, some do not. Ever trained a Chesapeke Bay Retriever?

Positive reinforcement is always the best training tool, however in the event that a dog begins to test out where is sits on the ladder, often with behavioral issues being attached there needs to be a definite behavior correction, you cannot simply positively reinforce whenever the dog does what mom, or daughter commands. This doesn't have to be an e-collar ( In fact I've trained some harder breeds, using one sparingly, but don't own one anymore). It can often be a more minor behavioral correction.

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well said

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

"I do this", "I do the sit and stay", "I can walk around the house".....

The OP doesn't have a problem with him, it's his family.

You disagree with others advice, and then are insulting and call it scary? Nice. Dogs, contrary to your opinion on other posts are pack animals, they need to fit into a hierarchy. Some breeds do very well with positive reinforcement, some do not. Ever trained a Chesapeke Bay Retriever?

Positive reinforcement is always the best training tool, however in the event that a dog begins to test out where is sits on the ladder, often with behavioral issues being attached there needs to be a definite behavior correction, you cannot simply positively reinforce whenever the dog does what mom, or daughter commands. This doesn't have to be an e-collar ( In fact I've trained some harder breeds, using one sparingly, but don't own one anymore). It can often be a more minor behavioral correction.

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I can do it and anyone in my family can too. Yes, I meant to add that everyone in the family should be doing it this way (everyone in the family should practice this consistently) but others have already touched on that. Great advice and no need to zap the dog or pin it down into submission for something that can be handled in a much less traumatic/stressful way for you and the dog, There are lot of old school people here that use methods that have been outdated for years.
If I insulted you by calling it scary, then I apologize.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I can do it and anyone in my family can too. Yes, I meant to add that everyone in the family should be doing it this way (everyone in the family should practice this consistently) but others have already touched on that. Great advice and no need to zap the dog or pin it down into submission for something that can be handled in a much less traumatic/stressful way for you and the dog, There are lot of old school people here that use methods that have been outdated for years.
If I insulted you by calling it scary, then I apologize.

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That is such a good point. I posted about my JRT pup learning to climb on the chair then onto the kitchen table, to see what might have been left behind. I got some thoughtful advice.

What did I do? I turn the chair to the wall so he can't climb on it. If this was an older dog and still doing that , I would take more serious measures , but..........

Excellent point.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

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That is such a good point. I posted about my JRT pup learning to climb on the chair then onto the kitchen table, to see what might have been left behind. I got some thoughtful advice.

What did I do? I turn the chair to the wall so he can't climb on it. If this was an older dog and still doing that , I would take more serious measures , but..........

Excellent point.

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Hi Sharon. Macy started her second round of advanced puppy class last night (she did fantastic in basic puppy class but she already knew everything since I had her for a couple of months before her class started..lol) Actually going to these classes and learning new things is interesting. When these positive methods (some new ones to me) are explained they really make a lot of sense and open your eyes to how wrong a lot of these old methods are/were.

I take young pups to dog training classes . Not for me much - although as you said , there is always something to be learned - I go for part of the pup's socialization.

( I have 3 coffees and it's -16 out ... Can't take the dogs out. Will try not to post so much for the rest of the day. :)

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Originally Posted by Sharon

I take young pups to dog training classes . Not for me much - although as you said , there is always something to be learned - I go for part of the pup's socialization.

( I have 3 coffees and it's -16 out ... Can't take the dogs out. Will try not to post so much for the rest of the day. :)

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Yep, it's great for socialization as well. I'm not sure how much further we will go after advanced puppy class but my wife is enjoying it so much we may just get her a title or two. :)

You have 3 coffee's going at once! You'll be posting from here to eternity then! :)

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Try looking into a good positive reinforcement training club or ask for some advice from a real trainer. Some of advice being offered here is just downright scary to say the least.

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Sorry my advice scares you but based on what had been described at that point , that 1 yr old Labrador was growling at his kids I stand by my post. Establishing a submissive position to the entire family is not something to take lightly with a dog the size of a Labrador and the children may not be physically threatening to this young dog. A tap on the collar evens things out. At that point the dog is disobeying and you are only reinforcing a known command/order. Do you actually own an ecollar and know how to use it?

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Originally Posted by terrym

Sorry my advice scares you but based on what had been described at that point , that 1 yr old Labrador was growling at his kids I stand by my post. Establishing a submissive position to the entire family is not something to take lightly with a dog the size of a Labrador and the children may not be physically threatening to this young dog. A tap on the collar evens things out. At that point the dog is disobeying and you are only reinforcing a known command/order. Do you actually own an ecollar and know how to use it?

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And I stand by my post. Giving advice on the net to zap and pin a dog down when you haven't even seen the dog is flat out wrong, and very scary advice to be giving someone.

No I don't own an e-collar and I have no intentions of ever getting one. It's not necessary for anything I've ever done with my dogs and I've always seemed to get the desired result I wanted without one.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

And I stand by my post. Giving advice on the net to zap and pin a dog down when you haven't even seen the dog is flat out wrong, and very scary advice to be giving someone.

No I don't own an e-collar and I have no intentions of ever getting one. It's not necessary for anything I've ever done with my dogs and I've always seemed to get the desired result I wanted without one.

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The biggest problem with e-collars is that owners fail to use them properly, and rely too heavily on them. Which of course is why I was reluctant to mention it at all in my 1st post on this thread. As mentioned before, I have used them, on rather hard headed breeds, but VERY sparingly, as the abuse of them can have quite negative effects on the dog.

The part about pinning the dog was quite simple. It was a rescue GSP who was doing marvelously in his training, but had a very difficult time accepting my wifes instructions, and would out-and-out disobey her. We went the route of positive re-inforcements, kennel time, her feeding him, and he seemed to simply disregard her when I was not around. He wasn't small ( 80-90 lbs). It eventually got to the point, where I advised her that when he disobeyed her, to repeat the command, and if he didn't follow, she was to grab him by the scruff, and use her weight to put him down to the ground and place her hand on his neck. Traumatize? Hardly, but she only had to do it twice in a week long period, and he suddenly became obedient to her commands ( well, with treats at first).

I've trained lots of dogs, some mine, some not. I have never been disappointed yet with a dog, but owners, yes.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

And I stand by my post. Giving advice on the net to zap and pin a dog down when you haven't even seen the dog is flat out wrong, and very scary advice to be giving someone.

No I don't own an e-collar and I have no intentions of ever getting one. It's not necessary for anything I've ever done with my dogs and I've always seemed to get the desired result I wanted without one.

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Then you don't know enough about them to make such blanket comments. They are very adjustable and don''t cause pain unless you deliberately do that. My dog comes running and jumps for joy whenever he see's it come off the hook. Not quite the medieval torture tool the uninformed think it is. And quite frankly not all breeds are equal in temperament. A Labrador is a sporting breed and a large one at that.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Then you don't know enough about them to make such blanket comments. They are very adjustable and don''t cause pain unless you deliberately do that. My dog comes running and jumps for joy whenever he see's it come off the hook. Not quite the medieval torture tool the uninformed think it is. And quite frankly not all breeds are equal in temperament. A Labrador is a sporting breed and a large one at that.

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Well that's fine Terry, if you need to use one then that's your choice. I wasn't knocking e-collars (just the advice given to use one for what appears to be a minor issue), although I've never needed one for either of my Rottweilers.

A labrador growling at my kids is what I consider to be more than a minor issue. Of all the people I know and hunt with I would say at least 75% of them use an e-collar. Wearing an e-collar doesn't mean you drop the dog to it's knees. We'll let this thread get back to it's original intent.

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Originally Posted by terrym

A labrador growling at my kids is what I consider to be more than a minor issue.

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And you saw and heard this growl and feel comfortable enough to offer advice to "ZAP it hard". OK?

Again, I think it's more than likely a minor issue considering this is a 1 year old pup, but I wasn't there to see it so maybe you're right. Perhaps it needs to be ZAPPED hard.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Well that's fine Terry, if you need to use one then that's your choice. I wasn't knocking e-collars (just the advice given to use one for what appears to be a minor issue), although I've never needed one for either of my Rottweilers.

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Rottweilers!? Rottweilers!? Those ever lovin', drool spillin', 90-130lb cuddle muffins? Well no wonder you've never had a problem.....:tongue:

Now the sporting breeds like labs, and Chessies........well, they can certainly have their challenges.......but last I checked, you'll not find too many rotties willing to jump into 0 Degree swamp to bring back a soggy, yet quite edible bird.

:D

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

The biggest problem with e-collars is that owners fail to use them properly, and rely too heavily on them. Which of course is why I was reluctant to mention it at all in my 1st post on this thread. As mentioned before, I have used them, on rather hard headed breeds, but VERY sparingly, as the abuse of them can have quite negative effects on the dog.

The part about pinning the dog was quite simple. It was a rescue GSP who was doing marvelously in his training, but had a very difficult time accepting my wifes instructions, and would out-and-out disobey her. We went the route of positive re-inforcements, kennel time, her feeding him, and he seemed to simply disregard her when I was not around. He wasn't small ( 80-90 lbs). It eventually got to the point, where I advised her that when he disobeyed her, to repeat the command, and if he didn't follow, she was to grab him by the scruff, and use her weight to put him down to the ground and place her hand on his neck. Traumatize? Hardly, but she only had to do it twice in a week long period, and he suddenly became obedient to her commands ( well, with treats at first).

I've trained lots of dogs, some mine, some not. I have never been disappointed yet with a dog, but owners, yes.

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That's a good post. There's a place for both corrections in the house. Not what should be tried first though in my opinion.

MY JRT loves to abuse my old 14 year old arthritic dog , who can't defend herself . I tried several things to put an end to this and eventually used the e collar.

I can also understand that people who have non hunting dogs may never need an e collar.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Rottweilers!? Rottweilers!? Those ever lovin', drool spillin', 90-130lb cuddle muffins? Well no wonder you've never had a problem.....:tongue:

N
:D

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lol..well neither of my Rotts drool/drooled but my most challenging dog was actually a Dalmatian.

One bad incident can definitely make you wary of that breed. Unfortunate but reality. I had a bad incident with a dalmation too. I don't want to take this off topic but one of several GOOD things about dog parks is that you get to see 25+ different breeds at a visit. Has changed my opinion to the positive for many several breeds for me.

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

My 1 year old lab has developed a bad habit that I am seeking advise on.

When I am home she is golden & behaves very well. Probably because I am the one who did all the obediance training with her. I have spent many hours with her training & I execise her for a min of 1hr a day off leash in fields or the bush & she behaves very well & take her rabbitt hunting. She is a champ of a dog in the field.

When I am not home she is a total bratt. She finds something to steal like a sock/pillows/eye glasses/laptops or basically anything she can carry & plays keep away with my wife & daughters. She knows these items are off limits & she clearly knows this gets a rise out of them.

I have taught her the "leave it" command & if I am home I give the command & she drops whatever she has.

When I am not home she will stand her ground & growls @ the girls. She eventually gives up & drops it but I am afraid she will bite one of these times when they go to grab the item.

She is a smart cookie & knows when I am not around.

Has any-one ever experianced this before & what did you do?

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Getting back on topic. :)

I have the same problem with my wife and my dog. He had little to no respect for her or really any females as far as obedience. I know the issue has always been that I was the one that trained and corrected him for everything he did wrong. My wife tends to be a bit more lenient with regards to discipline and therefore he knew he could get away with it. At night we both take turns sitting on the floor with him. He has always used his mouth to explore (very light mouthing). With my wife he groans and growls but has never really turned into anything. A few times when he was real tired she sat on the floor and he came over but had little patience for her. With regards to most females the main issue is that he jumps up and grabs clothing or hands. I think it is that the female friends that visit have no authority when they come in the house with respect to putting the dog in his place. My male friends (we discussed this in advance) will walk in the house and at first jump will jab him quick in the chest with their knee and will have minimal problems with the rest of the visit. I have since had my wife training him nightly (sit, come, down, hide and seek) and he is doing much better with my wife anyway. She has even taken to teaching him her own tricks such as high five, shake paw and roll over and I find if she is consistent everybody is much happier. At first it was frustrating for my wife but now we understand what was going on it is much better.

We have four Labs. in the house , all are quiet except for mine which I taught to bark /growl when someone comes down our drive, our daughters young dog is now starting to pick this up.
She is very possessive of "her "property , sometimes even barks when a strange vehicle come into the neighbors drive.
Sure comes in handy to have them let us know when something/someone strange is around at all other times they are quiet , no barking or growling.

By the time last50h and Sharon are done having you mother and smother with lovin and treats , THE DOG , it will be a total dud and only one thing left to do is shoot the growler .

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

By the time last50h and Sharon are done having you mother and smother with lovin and treats , THE DOG , it will be a total dud and only one thing left to do is shoot the growler .

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400 you're a prime example of old school stubborn headedness that will never change because you're so set in your ways and those are the only correct ways in your little mind. Typical but funny. Sad for the dogs though.
But hey thx for the tips on what the op should do. Great advise given right there. End/ thread.

thread derailed again... LOL
seriously I would have liked to know if the pup was just bored with the gals or not…

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

400 you're a prime example of old school stubborn headedness that will never change because you're so set in your ways and those are the only correct ways in your little mind. Typical but funny. Sad for the dogs though.
But hey thx for the advise on what the op should do.

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The only thing sad is that you have yet to learn with all your new system that your dealing with an ANIMAL , A DOG . You put the dog on such a high pedestal and yourself beneath which is not the way of the hierarchy of the world .Dogs were domesticated for us to use .i worry that folks such as yourself and Sharon are not far removed from some that think we should not hunt or work our dogs .You have not stated this but that's how you come across . Run to the vets for every little thing , coddle them , put coats on them etc etc . Well a dog is just a dog no matter how high a pedestal you wish to put him on .I love mine but he and I both know who is at the top of the pecking order and if in the end I was starving I would eat him just as I would any other animal .

errrr... be careful on that last statement....lol Animals have been known to turn on their masters and eat them as well....lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

The only thing sad is that you have yet to learn with all your new system that your dealing with an ANIMAL , A DOG . You put the dog on such a high pedestal and yourself beneath which is not the way of the hierarchy of the world .Dogs were domesticated for us to use .i worry that folks such as yourself and Sharon are not far removed from some that think we should not hunt or work our dogs .You have not stated this but that's how you come across . Run to the vets for every little thing , coddle them , put coats on them etc etc . Well a dog is just a dog no matter how high a pedestal you wish to put him on .I love mine but he and I both know who is at the top of the pecking order and if in the end I was starving I would eat him just as I would any other animal .

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Why are you putting words in my mouth, words I've never said?

Hey, I offered my advise and if you don't like it then do your thing. I really don't give a rats arse but if I can offer advise that will help somebody, they're free to read it and choose on their own. Sorry you disagree.

Great story though bro!:thumbup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

The only thing sad is that you have yet to learn with all your new system that your dealing with an ANIMAL , A DOG . You put the dog on such a high pedestal and yourself beneath which is not the way of the hierarchy of the world .Dogs were domesticated for us to use .i worry that folks such as yourself and Sharon are not far removed from some that think we should not hunt or work our dogs .You have not stated this but that's how you come across . Run to the vets for every little thing , coddle them , put coats on them etc etc . Well a dog is just a dog no matter how high a pedestal you wish to put him on .I love mine but he and I both know who is at the top of the pecking order and if in the end I was starving I would eat him just as I would any other animal .

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[emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]
You got it boss. A flaming is in order here when one dares mention it but a dog is a dog, an animal and yes lol food if need be. It drives me nuts when people try to humanize their pets. This humanization is what started all this PETA and SPCA crap. Ohhh your dog can't go outside..... ohhh you can't train your dog like that. What a bunch..... do what is required to train the animal right. No kids face is worth a dogs next breath.

Well last50h your manner is often condescending saying the proven old ways are not right and that were small minded if we don't do it by the new huggy , feel goody way . Actually my first post in this thread although a shot at you and mother Sharon was meant in humour but you seem to get defensive if your way differs from many of ours . But while I have you in my crosshairs I may as well fire another over your bow . Lol A complete hijack but I did see you mention your Rottis don't drool .? Methinks your blind bud as I've seen my share of rottis and have yet to see one that doesn't but just incase you best rush yours to a vet . Lol Oaknut . Thumbs up . You understand that humans are humans and far far removed from dog DNA .

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

thread derailed again... LOL
seriously I would have liked to know if the pup was just bored with the gals or not…

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Yep. Hard to see this come to the dog forum, but we seem to be attracting the "off forum" fighters lately.

You don't know me BB as well as you think. 50 years of successful gun dogs / foster teens/20 years at the jail working . I can't be all that soft. :)

Difference between us , is that I don't start out with the " big guns " when dog training. Never necessary.

You're lucky I've only had one coffee so far. :) Now get back to work!

** My apologies Belle river for my part in taking your thread off topic.

Belleriver you really need to help your wife and daughter establish themselves with this dog or you will be rehoming it. I have had three incidence of dogs growling at the females and younger children. One was a golden retriever that put itself above the youngest child in the household. The owners worked hard to correct the problem but by chance one day the wife was home and look out the window and saw the dog put the neighbours child down and attack him. Thank goodness it was winter and the child had on a heavy snowsuit and knew how to protect his head. That dog was put down that day. The second was a yellow lab and it would growl when the wife and daughter tried to make it get off the furniture or take something from it. This dog was not vicious but it knew who it could boss in the family. They were flabbergasted one night in class when I saw the daughter slip it an unearned treat and I walked over pried its mouth open and reached down its throat and took the treat. It didn't even put up a fight cause it knew I was boss. This dog was rehomed. The third was a shepherd type the family bought off KIJIJI. To make a long story short it too started to dominate the youngest child, to the point where it bit. This dog too was put down.
I would suggest that you look for a couple of books, one is Good Owners Great Dogs by Brian Killcommon, or his How to Child Proof. . Your Dog. These are both good resources and have a common sense approach. The other one I can't keep on my shelf because people don't ever return it is How to Raise a Puppy You Can Live With by Rutherford and Rutherford It takes you through the different stages of the pup's development and again is good common sense training. The former you can order through Coles and I used to get my copies of Rutherford and Rutherford from the CKC. There are good resources out there. I would also suggest a good basic obedience class, not a puppy socialization class. You need one where your wife does the work and teaches the dog to follow her commands.

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

My 1 year old lab has developed a bad habit that I am seeking advise on.

When I am home she is golden & behaves very well. Probably because I am the one who did all the obediance training with her. I have spent many hours with her training & I execise her for a min of 1hr a day off leash in fields or the bush & she behaves very well & take her rabbitt hunting. She is a champ of a dog in the field.

When I am not home she is a total bratt. She finds something to steal like a sock/pillows/eye glasses/laptops or basically anything she can carry & plays keep away with my wife & daughters. She knows these items are off limits & she clearly knows this gets a rise out of them.

I have taught her the "leave it" command & if I am home I give the command & she drops whatever she has.

When I am not home she will stand her ground & growls @ the girls. She eventually gives up & drops it but I am afraid she will bite one of these times when they go to grab the item.

She is a smart cookie & knows when I am not around.

Has any-one ever experianced this before & what did you do?

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I am quoting the original post to remind everyone to stay on topic, if you can't, I will gladly remove you from the thread.

Belleriver,
Always tough making suggestions when we don't see first hand the observable behaviour that we wish to eliminate; howevere for what it's worth:

-go back and soundly review the basics, sit, stay, here ,heel, drop, down and drop
-be sure even you are getting a high standard. 'Most ' of the time is not good enough. Look carefully for small signs of avoidance like slow to comply, turning head, not sitting on initial command......am sure you get the picture
-have your daughters join you once the review is complete, allow them to watch you carefully....tone, stature, commands etc
-do a simple retrieve as a drill right from sit to sit.
-next day daughter takes dog through drill with you present. Drill can be with a bumper. It can be a basic retrieve with a sit to deliver then get up, walk at heel, sit again then deliver to hand. You coach daughter as you go through the drill.

What you are attempting to do is put some consistency with the type of approach that all the family will use......commands etc. You are also communicating the difference between play time and work time. In this case you are giving her clear notice you are now on work time. Too much play time with lack of standards can get them sloppy.

Dogs need to know they are accountable regardless if it's me, my daughter or wife.....sit means sit.....down means down etc. I haven't even mentioned the use of an e-collar which would clean this up so fast, you'd be surprised.

Go back for several days with this approach and let us know how things are.

Regards,

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Originally Posted by impact

errrr... be careful on that last statement....lol Animals have been known to turn on their masters and eat them as well....lol

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No he is safe he owns a dog it's the cat people who should be worried those things would eat ya before you cooled.