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I just watched a programme on TVO called Mysteries of the Moose , a segment of the prorgamme dealt with moose in Alberta , dying from "Tick Infestations" it was absolutely amazing to see the number of ticks on these moose.
They mentioned that this problem occurs in the southern range of the moose .
Is it possible that this is occurring in Ontario and that is why we are seeing a drastic decline in our moose population?
Thats what the MNR blamed the sudden near wipeout of moose in Algonquin on. It was just funny it coincided with the first two years the natives were allowed to hunt in the park.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
I believe the first mandate of the MNR, is to protect native hunting /fishing rights. The next priority is commercial fisheries, etc, etc. Protecting sport hunting and fishing , is at the bottom of the list.
the tick on all of us is the natives
Ticks are taking their toll on some moose in Central Ontario. I've seen them on moose in the Parry Sound area.
Do you care to explain this remark.....Quote:
Originally Posted by toddc
Not sure if moose get infested with the same ones as deer do? Can't see why not? Ticks certainly have expanded their range and have become a serious problem. The only thing that seems to keep them at somewhat a lower level than the South must be our winters? I have got to the point that I get the heebyjeebys just turkey hunting in the Spring because of how we do it and those damned ticks.
the natives take more then we all care to admit,they put huge dents in the moose pop.. we can bury our head in the sand if you wish but truth be told its a major problemQuote:
Originally Posted by bdog
Disappointing that a thread about the damage caused by ticks in our moose population became a thread complaining about natives. The program on TVO was based on scientific research, could I ask what research your responses are based on? If you have none based on science then I suggest that your responses are based on bigotry and could very well be considered as promoting hatred against a people.
I am not a friend of the native, IMO I believe they are getting too much handed to them and our governments need to stand up to them more then they have; but unfortunately court rulings in BC have set a precedent in which natives will get even more if things go to court.
Back to the ticks, with the Global Warming that we are experiencing we can expect to see more of this type of thing in the future as conditions become favorable for these insects to move northward.
A fairly recent study of the tick problem with moose in the Park indictes it's not a critical problem to the populations there.
http://www.parkreports.com/parksblog/?p=5647Quote:
Ultimately, the relationship between ticks and moose is not fully understood. Every spring since 1984, biologists at Algonquin Provincial Park have been conducting aerial surveys of tick infestation based on the degree of hair loss in moose. This allows staff to predict the potential impact on the local moose population. In 2014, 64 moose were assessed with an overall rating that was fairly low for hair loss meaning moose deaths due to winter ticks are not anticipated in Algonquin this year.
good paper on the potential effects of climate change and predators on the moose populations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
http://files.ontario.ca/environment-...rod_100584.pdf
For those that didnt read the study I posted...in regards to unregulated Hunting of Moose...
Quote:
Regulated and unregulated hunting
Hunting was modelled as a density-independent rate of mortality of 11%. In Ontario regulated hunting accounts for about 9% of annual moose mortality and unregulated hunting for about 2% more, for a combined death rate of about 11%. Although the relative proportion of regulated versus non-regulated hunting will vary spatially across the province, the combined death rate was assumed constant. Hunting modifies the overall density of moose, which is important for determining recruitment and predation rates
You really are misinformed.....Quote:
Originally Posted by toddc
Did they elaborate on what the "unregulated" hunting was? Native harvest? Poaching? I don't know how they can put a figure on these two items because that data is not recorded. The other thing is that 2% province-wide is not going to be evenly distributed. It's going to be far higher in areas like 48 and 55b and in corner of the park adjacent to those areas - I'm betting that native harvest of adult moose in that area is many, many times greater than the regulated hunter harvest.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
didnt mean to rip off the thread, i apologise
I have a native cousin that has told me stories what his friends do and it is unreal, slaughtering them and deer to sell and make money, same with walleye and lakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
Fricken joke.
If they shot em on foot and with recurve bows have at it, not round em up in the snow on sleds and have at them with rifles, or shoot outta truck windows
In WMU 47, we got a bull tag this year, but the natives showed up and hunted around our camp the weeks before the season opened. According to the MNR, they took 13 bulls in the small area around our camp. Pretty sure that's the reason why we didn't see a bull when we were hunting....we also didnt see a cow or a calf the whole week. The MNR guy wasnt sure how many calves/cows the natives took however.Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
good grief man i have native family i know first hand what happensQuote:
Originally Posted by bdog
Pls. see above post and hi lited area.Quote:
moose in Alberta , dying from "Tick Infestations" it was absolutely amazing to see the number of ticks on these moose.
They mentioned that this problem occurs in the southern range of the moose .
Is it possible that this is occurring in Ontario and that is why we are seeing a drastic decline in our moose population?
maybe the ticks could infest some lawyers and judges,lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Doug
no mention of bears and what they take
Just another misinformed post...Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt86
toddc, Matt86, my family has been fighting terrorism since 1492, but thats a completely different subject, one that you cannot begin to understand, now bck to the moose problem, ticks, brain worm in white tail,and the white tail are moving farther north, no spring bear hunt, no body shooting wolves on sight now because a tag is needed ,and mismanagement by the powers/gov/mnr, has a lot more to do with the decline in OUR moose population.... than the peoples you are pointing your finger at...
easy , no special rights , like the rest of us canadians . equality for all taxpayers.
I just wish the MNR would take measures to eradicate ticks. They have done a fairly good job against rabies, they should do the same for ticks. I wonder how we can get this done?
I have seen ticks in areas we never even heard of then in the past .sure thy are on the moose deer and even turkeys. Some areas are a lot worse than others. As far as unregulated harvest some folks just can't expect that it happens. Head in the sand ...We need to get all hunter's on the same page .and stop shooting calfs .Dutch
Hey there is an idea. While we are @ it how about no Cow's either if you really want to protect what is left & help the herd to re-build. But that would have to be for all Canadians even the ones that don't need to buy a hunting license & adhere to the common sense game laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
Paintball guns with Ivermectin filled pellets?Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandra360
Amazing how the ticks left the guts in such neat piles huhQuote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
A more serious reply would be that it is a complex issue that has been on biologists radar for over 20 years. Warmer, shorter winters mean more ticks survive, wet summers do too.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandra360
So, we can hope for long cold winters with lots of snowfall, and dry Augusts & autumns. Apparently, early spring prescribed burns can help knock down endemic numbers too.
Deer are unaffected by these ticks but carry them, so they would act as sources to reinfest areas even if you could wipe them all out of a region - which is unlikely. For some reason, deer get infested with a handful of these ticks, but the moose can end up with thousands; like the liver fluke situation - fine for deer, but nasty for moose.
Drones may be one of the moosies best friends. It should be easier and a lot less expensive to start doing aerial surveys with those, which will hopefully translate into more area surveyed on an annual basis. At least we would have a clearer picture of what we have?
Sad to see there are many people who are racist or blaming the natives. You have your say just as I do. Nice to see non natives stick up for us though. Here on my reserve which is pretty small we pretty much wait to start hunting in late September early October once the weather starts to drop. Mind you it's not the whole reserve going. In total from the stories I hear, since everyone pretty much knows everyone there are about a total of 20-30 people out there hunting and about 10 or less get a moose. Mind you some of us are hunting together. I myself only made it to hunt for moose only two times this year but I'm mainly a deer hunter.
Not to mention we only hunt on RESERVE land. There aren't many deer hunters on my res as well. Most of us are respectful hunters such as myself but like anyone there are those who don't respect the animals or rules and go overboard. Though I haven't heard of anyone shooting 20-30 moose for just themselves, I have never heard anyone shoot that many period. Everyone I know goes out and gets 1 moose "if they can" to feed there family and friends. The ones out hunting for moose usually give up once the rut is over so by the end of October. I only go out and hunt for 1 or 2 deer which in my case is usually just one. That feeds myself and my family and I donate some to our food bank. This year has been a slow year though and I think it's due to the weather. Only know of 4 people who got a moose. I haven't got a deer yet this year but all I'm getting on camera is pics mainly at night. Only got a couple during the day.
Anyway my overall opinion that I wanted to say is... there are more non status hunters out there hunting, there are people out there native and non native who are greedy and break rules who are (poachers) if you want to put a word on it, I know only people on our reserve only hunt on reserve land. Not all natives are out there being greedy. Just like you non native people hearing or reading articles of people poaching and making "hunters" look bad, these natives who are out there being "greedy/poaching" are making us "native hunters" look bad. Don't judge all of us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjf
Good post......
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Problem is too many are boozin and not producing...the moose are there for the taking!!
Maybe you can clarify your post....not sure what you are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longears
Thanks
I find alot of the moose hunters are drinking there booze rather then hunting for moose!!
Well if they aren't shooting moose they aren't hurting the population. Not sure where you were going with that comment either with regards to this subject.Quote:
I find alot of the moose hunters are drinking there booze rather then hunting for moose!!
Very well said, I wish people would spend some time and research the native issues and stop listening to bigoted propaganda...Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjf
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great post.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjf
I have lived and/or worked on 30+ reserves over the last 25 years building water and sewage treatment plants. Sometimes for just a few days and and other times for 6-12 months. In the mid 90s there was one particular northern reserve (about 500 souls) that I lived on for 12 months and during that time to the best of my knowledge no moose were taken. Saw lots of geese and fish and the odd bear taken, but no moose.
I just finished a plant for a Gold Mine construction camp that is FN owned and operated. From June to the end of November I was there about 50% of the time and once again none of the guys I knew were taking moose. The odd deer (this was around Fort Frances), but even that seemed rare.
And for the record I am as WASP as they come. These are just my direct observations over the last 25 years.
I think the finger needs to be pointed back at the OMNR and it's absolute pisspoor "sustainable" management strategy for moose (or any other huntable animal in Ontario). How many years has a calf tag been issued for every licence purchased? How many years have they been issuing cow tags? Why are the moose populations declining? The OMNR sure as hell doesn't know, it's not like it's their job or anything. They're just going to blame it on global warming next, that seems like the easiest and trendiest cop out. Never mind that there is an increasing moose population in Utah where it's warmer than Ontario. The difference? They've been properly managing their herd since the 50's, and I'm sure they've got ticks there too so forget that argument.
The OMNR is royally screwing up. Who the hell cares if natives shoot moose, the population should still not be declining. That means the OMNR is not keeping the tag allocations at a sustainable level because they're a bunch of incompetent bean counters that only succeed at raising licence fees annually and ensure that their "Pool 1-2, everybody pays $50 to apply" scam keeps going.
Something IS wrong, it's the OMNR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjf
Thanks for the info.
here is a ?
If the MNR asked the native hunters to stop shooting cows & calf's would you comply?
CO's are not even allowed to ask a FN or Metis Hunter if they have SEEN a moose, let alone shot any !Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
This revelation was directly from a CO in NW Ontario.
I think the point is will they help join in with non native hunters and put restraints on their harvest to help the moose to come back and restore the population. I have been actively reading these threads and the point is all hunters need to sit down and control their harvest. We as regulated hunters have restraints put on us through tags. They just have too restrain themselves. If not the moose herd is doomed.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
You can all point fingers at everybody else but unless "everybody" reduces the harvest of cows and calves the herd will continue to decline. We all need to reduce the harvest. Shut down the cow harvest for 5 years and I bet the problem fixes itself. Wildlife should never be managed by political decisions.
A refreshing post that proves we probably shouldn't be too quick to judge. I know I have that bad habit.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjf
The continued onslaught on cows and calves is akin to killing the goose that's laying the golden eggs. WHY???
The MNR should be there for wildlife and resources - PERIOD!!
Every time politics(votes) and revenue streams are attached conditions --- then the house of cards always comes tumbling down.
The first new law enacted should be to separate the MNR from any gov't affiliation and somehow make it -stand alone!
A pipedream for sure but if I gonna dream I might as well dream big!
My grandson just turned 3 ... I sure hope some day I can go on a moose hunt with him!
Ontario's political "decisions" have no bearing on the moose populations in Manitoba and the northern US states which are also plummeting. Nor does our calf/cow hunt. Theres bigger issues at play here, one im not sure which we can even understand yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Im not saying that the way we do things can't be improved upon. Im saying that its beyond the control of one single government organization, because quite obviously this is a multi-national issue.
I noticed no one mentioned all the calves the bears take in the spring.
They will never shut down the calf hunt in my area....they make too much money from it....gangs of 10-15 guys with only cAlf tags....if they cut out calf tags then the gang won't be heading up for the moose hunt. Government would loose a lot of money.
So everyone continued to slaughter calves ....us included. We shot 3 calf this year and a cow between 12 hunters....moose hunt is the only.income for our camp to pay for taxes and other expenses. No moose hunt.....no hunt camp
I'd rather not even go than shoot a calf .IMO
The only thing that I can see, is ticks and defoliation after a cut to kill off birch, willow and poplar, so that spruce can survive. This happens across North america. JMHO
but you have the freedom to hunt deer or moose horns or not, for meat without paying a cent and with what ever gun or bow you feel like the day you are going.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjf
I have friends in southern Ontario where you can see 60 deer in a field feeding in the evening and they didn't even draw to hunt with a gun, and they don't bow hunt, so 2015 they were not aloud to hunt with a gun at all, We apply every year for a moose tags 50 bucks a year never got a tag, my good buddy that's native and a cousin I have is native they both called a native chief and both got a tag cow or bull what ever they wanted to shoot with bow or gun when ever, i've never got a tag but if I do I get 7 days to hunt.
U say you made it out moose hunting twice, Id love to go moose hunting twice with a bull tag in my pocket every year even if I didn't shoot one. you can gun hunt deer when ever you want, I get 7 days to hunt deer with a gun if I get drawn, and you don't have to buy a 44 dollar deer tag, you write your status number and name on a piece of paper and that's your tag, really you cant compare because if you never got drawn to hunt you just go, we aren't aloud and if caught doing so is a big fine, imagine you couldn't hunt a entire year but if you were native you could, my family realizes on wild meat just as much as a native family dose. imagine you could only have 6 walleye in your freezer at a time,
Dont blame the guy for sharing his experience. Although I agree somewhat with your general idea here I think you took the wrong approach and picking a fight with 1 guy who has nothing to do with decision making isnt going to progress this issue. Dont blame the native hunter for the way things are they simply live in the world created for them by others...Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt86
Natives are not the problem. It is the government. First there is no other place in the world that is so RACIST. A group or race given privileges over another??? If any of us were allowed to hunt whenever and wherever you wanted, most would do it. So why not these guys. Problem I see is the gov't has been fooled about what a native is and how many there really are. Hint.... how many red haired blue eyed "natives" do you see
Welcome to the forum. How about you tell us how you really feel?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phoenix
naaaw just some observations.