The Savage SML Bore/Barrel

Surprisingly there is more than what meets the eye here. Imo the worst thing you could do is take a new 10ML-II out of the box and start shooting loads. There is a protective coating inside that needs to be removed with some serious scrubbing. To remove this coating it is a lot easier before it gets baked on with shooting loads. I’m not going to get into a long winded commentary here but say I learned that lesson the hard way. Remember plastic sabots are going to ride this bore and not just bullets.

The barrels for these muzzle loaders do not have the quality bore finish found with other firearms. Another check I would recommend is pushing a sabot/bullet through the bore and examine the land impression lines on the sabot. If the lines are nicely defined you are good to go. If any of the lines have a jagged appearance then you have sharp burrs on the lands that may need to be removed.
A simple rule I apply here is the better conditions of a working environment for the sabot the better the sabot performs its function.

Some are probably wondering or questioning the purpose of all this writing about the 10ML-II. Simple, the quicker you become familiarized with equipment and operating principles the better results starting out and less money spent on loading supplies to get a decent load development going.

Another area you should monitor for cleanliness is the area where the Breech Plug mates to the bore. This area is going to try and prevent about 35Kpsi from rushing back through. It is not a perfect seal as some might suspect. My own chosen method is to give the ratchet handle a rap with a plastic mallet and I don’t mean a real hard whack.
I should mention the Savage BP now comes with a new designed end to allow the use of a ratchet. The older model used a hollow bar where you had to insert a round bar through it. Not liking this I welded a socket to the end of the hollow bar to be able to use a ratchet instead.

For now I’m just trying to stay with looking after a factory 10ML-II and there are only a few more things to consider which I want to touch on yet that I feel a shooter should know or beware of.


Ed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ET1

. Imo the worst thing you could do is take a new 10ML-II out of the box and start shooting loads. There is a protective coating inside that needs to be removed with some serious scrubbing

---

I think that boat has sailed Ed...chances of anyone every finding a 10ML-11 new 'out of the box' again are very slim :)

Cleanliness of any firearm should be paramount for anyone serious about the accuracy of their gun. Anyone with any history of shooting a Black Powder ML's knows how dirty a gun can get and how if left dirty how much damage can occur.

Shooting a smokeless powder the 'crud' isn't as prevalent, but yes, attention still needs to be paid to the areas you've have mentioned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

I think that boat has sailed Ed...chances of anyone every finding a 10ML-11 new 'out of the box' again are very slim :)

Cleanliness of any firearm should be paramount for anyone serious about the accuracy of their gun. Anyone with any history of shooting a Black Powder ML's knows how dirty a gun can get and how if left dirty how much damage can occur.

Shooting a smokeless powder the 'crud' isn't as prevalent, but yes, attention still needs to be paid to the areas you've have mentioned.

---

I found a new 10ML ii in the box & should have it soon. This is why I like to buy a gun that is new in the box so I know it's history started with me.... :) Belive me I paid a premium for it so it better last my lifetime... LOL

Let me know what I should do to clean the barrell before I start playing around with loads. I made my first smokeless black powder accesory purchase for the gun yesterday @ Bass pro (a grain scale)... :)

I have not bought any powder or sabot's or bullets yet untill I do my homework on these items...

Jeff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ET1

The barrels for these muzzle loaders do not have the quality bore finish found with other firearms. Another check I would recommend is pushing a sabot/bullet through the bore and examine the land impression lines on the sabot. If the lines are nicely defined you are good to go. If any of the lines have a jagged appearance then you have sharp burrs on the lands that may need to be removed.
A simple rule I apply here is the better conditions of a working environment for the sabot the better the sabot performs its function.
Ed

---

Here's a pic of what my sabots looked like before and after hand lapping the barrel, took care of the zipper like feeling. and helped with the accuracy of the gun.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...Picture004.jpg

Thanks for the picture display Smokeeter.

I have never dealt with the above displayed bore condition but have had to lap my barrel to remove yet another condition. The first 7” of my bore was a looser fit than the last 15”. By focusing on lapping the last 15” and lightly lapping the transition area I’ve almost eliminated the difference of a load fit.
Keep in mind that load resistance is also attributed to bore roughness. After addressing the extreme bore roughness you will probably find the existing load is now a loser fit and may need to go to a thicker sabot fit for proper load resistance.

This is not meant to scare anyone away but if you experience some difficulty with your bore there are corrective actions that can be taken.

The next step I wanted to cover was Loading and bore cleaning routine. There is no one specific method to cover this. Some claim that once they get a shot or two off then they can fire another 10 plus shots before cleaning. In my case not so and need to dry swab between shots as well as do an intermittent bore cleaning with sabot solvent say after 5-shots to see the best accuracy displayed. Here you basically have to experiment to find your best loading method for accuracy. But I will say that if you don’t allow cooling time between shots your accuracy potential flies out the window. Sabots do not like bore heat buildup that alters their physical characteristics.

I’m going to stop here for a bit to allow digesting any information helpful to someone.

Oh for complete bore cleaning my preference is Butch’s Bore Shine and if I want it super clean I will also use J&B bore cleaning compound.
.

Ed

How did you do the lapping, lead cast?
Besides easier loading, have you noticed any significant grouping improvement?

yes a lead plug slugged to the barrel and about 500 strokes, noticeable improvement in accuracy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by G.S.

How did you do the lapping, lead cast?
Besides easier loading, have you noticed any significant grouping improvement?

---

G.S.

From my definition of significant the answer is yes for group improvements with less fliers.

With lapping you could use a lead slug doing it manually or fire lapping is another approach.
I went with an unconventional method of using a strong tight fitting fabric like you would swabbing the bore that worked well. My goal was not to remove any more unwanted metal condition than required for my bore condition. I started out with valve lapping compound and finished with 600-grit compound.

Just a warning to those who want to attempt lapping you need to have patience and do intermediate checks. This can be time consuming.
To be honest I don’t know what it would take or even if you could ruin a barrel from overlapping and I don’t want to find out either.

Ed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I found a new 10ML ii in the box & should have it soon. This is why I like to buy a gun that is new in the box so I know it's history started with me.... :) Belive me I paid a premium for it so it better last my lifetime... LOL

---

I dunno Jeff....with all these threads from Ed with the issues he had to overcome with his 10ML, you might be better off sending it back and picking up an good BP inline ..LOL..

Hey Belleriver, I'm just ahead of you in your journey with a Savage ML. When I bought mine I poured over all the posted I could find on this forum and others, I was under the impression it would be a huge learning curve with hundreds of rounds of shot, swabbing, various bullet trials etc. My first trial load out of the box gave me the accuracy out to 200 yards I was after. I have never had a "flyer". I have lots of extra brands of bullets on the shelf. Enjoy your learning curve. Good luck with your new toy.

MikePal

Yep Jeff should send it back and lose out on a potential he could have.
Or he could first run the bullet/sabot check I recommended to see if a problem might exist. Smokeeter and I were not fortunate enough to get nice clean bores but that’s not to say that all 10ML-II’s are like that.
The other side of the coin we learned how to correct such an issue and can help others should they come across this.

Big Jack sent his 10ML-II to PR bullets to get it more accurized and look at the results he shared. Knowing what he now has I doubt he would easily part with his 10ML-II. To make a 10ML-II more accurate is no secret or unknown to me or smokeeter or many others on a board that was once dedicated solely to the 10ML-II. I’m not an expert by any means just an advanced student ready to share his knowledge with the 10ML-II.


Ed

Keep the tips coming Ed. the more I can learn about my ML10 the better off I will be. If it can shoot better than my Omega I will be very happy with my purchase... LOL!!

Jeff let me put it this way;

if you can't it isn't the gun!

Jeff, you may get lucky and wind up with a good shooter from the start, one thing I found with mine was that when I switched sabots , from the red to the black magnum ones , my groups went from just under 2inches to clover leafing 3 rounds at 100 yards shooting from a solid bench.
I found that the tighter fitting black sabots did the trick, my red ones I gave to a buddy of mine who was using orange coloured sabots in his Thompson Center ML with mediocre groups , 2to 3 inches , his groups also dropped to 1 1/4 inches using the tighter red sabots that I gave him, he discarded his orange ones that came with his bullets.

Conclusion , tighter sabot bullet combinations equal tighter groups .
Enjoy using your Savage smokless ML as we do using ours , sill periodically take out my Hawken .54 cal. which I built ,but only on dry days.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Jack

Jeff let me put it this way;

if you can't it isn't the gun!

---

LOL!! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaycee

Jeff, you may get lucky and wind up with a good shooter from the start, one thing I found with mine was that when I switched sabots , from the red to the black magnum ones , my groups went from just under 2inches to clover leafing 3 rounds at 100 yards shooting from a solid bench.
I found that the tighter fitting black sabots did the trick, my red ones I gave to a buddy of mine who was using orange coloured sabots in his Thompson Center ML with mediocre groups , 2to 3 inches , his groups also dropped to 1 1/4 inches using the tighter red sabots that I gave him, he discarded his orange ones that came with his bullets.

Conclusion , tighter sabot bullet combinations equal tighter groups .
Enjoy using your Savage smokless ML as we do using ours , sill periodically take out my Hawken .54 cal. which I built ,but only on dry days.:)

---

I think I seen some black sabots for sale in the hunting for sale items on this site. I will get me some of those..

Jeff

As already seen others and me included with our combined experience should be able to assist you to a level of accuracy you seek. How far you want to take it is up to you.

One thing I overlooked and forgot to mention before is if you go back to smokeeter’s picture you will see that there are always 2-lands on each petal of the sabot. This is called indexing and purposely done.

Also don’t go around just buying any black sabots. You want a high pressure sabot whose fit provides at least 35-40lbs load resistance fit. To start with I would go with an MMP sabot that has a better selection for fit. The question is do you need a hph-24 or hph-12 or their regular short sabot?


Attachment 28185


Ed