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https://vimeo.com/117695231
Went back tonight where I found a carcass from the night before hit a big yote. He took off running to a property I am not allowed to hunt so I didn't go after him. He wouldn't have made it far though cause he was spraying blood all the way to fence line and could see the trail going into bush. -1 yote a lot more to go.
That doesn't explain the title of the post at all. We all must go predator hunting because you missed a shot?
The one at evening hunt would probably is dead over in bush but I can't go get him. The one in the morning didn't make it there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilo Charlie
So you went to the landowner to see if they'd let you go retrieve the coyote right?
No it's a industries property they will not let yet
So what's the point?
Didn't you watch the video. Lol. Never mind.
Good job, one less. Found a turkey carcass last time out, all that was left was the breast bone and wings not a piece of meat left.
Yeah they clean it up pretty good. She was a big deer to.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishing1
In his video link, it shows a deer takin out by the yotes, that's why he's saying to take out the yotes....
Thanks for the help rough crowd this morn. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
Sh#t happens. lol
If you argue that we must hunt predators to save the deer, I sure hope you won't argue that we must hunt the deer to save them from overpopulation....
That one line pretty much sums it up....not sure the OP would agree though.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
I am a deer hunter also just don't like yotes taking them and not me. I read a article that a yote can kill up to 4 deer a year add that up if you have a lot of yotes around you won't have to worry about your deer population.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Can , may, but do they , how many do they actually get ? very questionable . Do you also get upset with people that accidentally hit and kill them on our roads?Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
Just playing the "devils advocate" here to get discussions going.
Yeah I do come on get real. Lol. I don't know about you but this year hunt in my area deer population was down and saw twice as many yotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Hey, coyotes gotta eat too. I have no problem with that. It's all part of nature.
I know that but in my spot yote numbers are up.Quote:
Originally Posted by TPM
If the coyote numbers are up then it means they have an abundant food supply (deeer, racoons, groundhogs etc.). If that food dwindles so will the coyote population. Nature has a wonderful way of balancing things out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
What I really object to is other hunters shooting my deer, which is why I never miss an opportunity to track one down and kill it.
Me too. I'm almost out of hunting buddies.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
It sure isn't deer lol. Maybe other things such as rabbit and coons. I understand we don't want deer to get over populated that isn't what I am saying. All I saw all hunt was that big doe and two yearlings. But about 9 yotes running in two different packs.Quote:
Originally Posted by TPM
Kill em all. The deer , calves, sheep, puppies and kitty kats will all appreciate it !
Gonna try. We have had a couple pets in town get it to in the past couple yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Angus
That's quite a statement.......whatcha going do next.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
Finish sighting in the 243 ( new scope ) , maybe grab a call or two and go kill a few myself !Quote:
Originally Posted by krakadawn
Just the same as I find all over hullet, and south west of London.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishing1
"citiots" who dont understand predator control and talk about "nature" generally are arrogant citiots who remove man from the "balance of nature" equation. Removing competition is part of nature. Shoot em!
shooting one or two coyotes will do minimal for predator control. the government needs to look at alternative ways to control the population so that more of our hunting dollars go into a more appealing deer population
Dan
you are right in the middle of a current urban coyote study area lol , watch out for the ones with collarsQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
I don't think that's how the balancing act works out. Farmers and insurance companies already complain about the too appealing deer population. Lots of coyotes around my neck of the woods, but also lots of farmers getting kill permits and lots of collisions with deer and cars. Using that strategy, the government would likely end up spending our hunting dollars on lawsuits from farmers and insurance companies who think the populations are appealing enough... that's how the tide is going these days... at least around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by myot
Good job, man!
Yup ... lots of deer, lots of coyotes. But people are convinced it's a zero sum game.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckduckgoose
Folks Coyotes are not a native species in Ontario. They are invasive and should be exterminated with extreme prejudice.
They are not a balancing factor in our ecosystem, rather they imbalance it. Their reproductive capabilities coupled with their inherent adaptive capabilities make them hard to control. Keep in mind they eat EVERYTHING.
I hunt these things regularly and when I go for a walk in the bush I see deer tracks followed by coyote tracks all over the place.
There should be a provincial bounty available.
I read nonsense where folks talk about how they only eat rodents and such.... Utter nonsense. I can go out tomorrow and use a deer grunt call to call them in. I have done so. Also there is a good reason the lightning Jack on the FoxPro is so productive....
Sure they will eat mice and other rodents but that is not their primary target or staple in Ontario.
Its Deer, Turkey, Rabbit, grouse, cat, etc. The bigger the better.
No it doesn't. If we take that way of thinking then its the same to say Asian carp getting in to Ontario is not a bad thing....Quote:
Originally Posted by TPM
I haven't seen a ground hog in our area farms for the past several years. They are all but gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Finally.
Finally some satisfying confirmation bias? ;) lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
Along with rainbow trout, brown trout, chinook salmon, etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
They provide a sporting opportunity. Wiping them out would be not only impossible, but unfortunate for those people who like to hunt them.
Some of my favourite are: rainbow smelt, pheasants, jack rabbits... I bet we could come up with a good list of popular non-native game species...Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Sorry to hurt anyones feeling but you ain't gonna wipe out the coyotes. We have been trying since the early 70's and they have moved in to stay.:ashamed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckduckgoose
No just common sense. None of the prey has the reproductive capabilities of the predator.
Coyotes are extremely efficient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
One major difference. We introduced those species and they have limited reproductive capabilities....
Well then you will have to try harder! No excuses!Quote:
Originally Posted by tracker
Should also add not enough people go after them. If there was a provincial bounty they would be wiped out.
I know I can't wipe them out but I am going to shoot as many as possible. All the time I spend in bush I haven't seen any rabbits ground hogs and very little deer. Deer isn't over populated where I am coyotes are. Seen more of them then anything. Rabbits and deer were everywhere till a couple years ago. Yotes are starting to come into towns and getting A guy that hunts out my way just got a 52 pounder that doesn't sound like a normal yote. Wolf/Yote ? Maybe
Really? Ask the people who have problems with elk coming into their barns and eating the cattle feed, they were here at one point but we brought them back. The same happens with Turkeys, they are a problem in places. We also have problems with rabbits, but not as much as there used to be due to an increase in coyote populations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
It was not that long ago that people around Ottawa were complaining that there were too many deer and wanted to cull them all. The coyote population went up and with more predators/bad winters the deer population went down, the coyote population will follow.
Coyotes were not introduced, they moved from the west, they worked their way here from the west. The coyotes here have evolved to be larger due to larger prey animals and different dynamics.
Wiping out a natural species is not the answer, managing is.
It's takes a70% yearly harvest rate over a large area to even start to reduce coyote populations , as much as I hate to say it they are here to stay and many of the things some of enjoy much more will suffer because of it
Rabbit numbers are down because of farming practices, every farmer wants to have the most amount of land worked and leaves very little for the animals, be that birds or mammals. Think about the local feral cat population too when you think about rabbit and bird declines.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
We put quite a dent in the population last year and are at half as many as we were last year. But we are still finding some and like said what would we be hunting now if we had no yotes?
LOL. I'm not sure that's how things actually work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
READ MY POST - I RESPONDED TO WELSHES COMMENTS. I KNOW COYOTES WEREN'T INTRODUCED. THEY ARE INVASIVE! I was referring to his examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
You talk about ELK, Turkeys - WE RE-INTRODUCED THESE SPECIES FOR BETTER OR WORSE! THEY WERE NATIVE NOT INVASIVE!
ELK Turkey etc aren't the same as yotes.
Coyote population won't follow the deer. They will simply move on to other prey until all is collapsed and then finally they will decline.
They don't belong here.
By the way evolution does not take 40 years it takes a hell of a lot longer.... There are other factors that have contributed to their size.
I still have some farms around here that have fence rows still in. Use to be able to walk back there and watch the rabbits scatter. I do understand what you are saying. I am just stating what I have notice where I hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Spend some time not behind your computer and watch how good a predator these things really are....Quote:
Originally Posted by duckduckgoose
LOL. Aren't we both behind a computer or phone right now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
The Ontario government needs to start treating our resources like the investment opportunity it is.
Look at many of the states local businesses make a fortune off of hunters and fisherman and that's through QDMA and better stocking.
there's no money to be made in coyotes but deer on the other hand there's millions to be made
thanks
Dan
Yes true.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckduckgoose
interesting that you are at only half , is it lack of coyotes or a later start to chasing them ? The collared coyotes in the study done in prince Edward county showed a 50% turnover rate yearly with most of the kills being hunting or trappingQuote:
Originally Posted by tracker
common ground! I knew it was possible on this site! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
I think I have said all I have to say on this.
In our area, almost no small game exists. Pretty much been wiped out. Our deer herds have been decimated. Yes last winter was hard on them but in our area we had a lot of standing corn so food wasn't the issue.
I look at these things the same way I would look at Feral pigs or gobies or Asian carp.
Some people see an additional hunting opportunity, I see it quite differently.
Isn't it counter-intuitive to our hunting/angling philosophy for hunting/angling to become a sole financial resource rather than ethical and sustainable natural resource stewardship for the bettement of society,in general? After all,that's why wild game meat or animal parts can't be sold or battered,right? Isn't that the slippery slope to "market hunting" which caused the almost total collapse of wild game populations in the early twentieth century until strict hunting and fishing laws were enacted? The philosophy regarding organizations like QDMA do nothing but feed the anti-hunting agenda and are completely undefendable when the anti-hunting/animal abuse PR campaign cranks up using QDMA philosophy against all of us very effectively. With "friends" like that,we don't need enemies. To get the government involved as a financial investment opportunity is tantamount to crapping in one's own nest. Everything would be completely destroyed and lost forever,in a heartbeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by myot
I CAN YELL TOO IF YOU WANT ME TO!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
The Northeastern Subspecies of Coyote was recognized in 1949 and given its trinomial name at that time. They walked here, they were not introduced.
The whitetail deer population in Ontario is higher in the last 15 years than it ever had been in the past, with significantly higher hunting opportunities than any other time in history. There was a blip in the system back about 5 years ago when 2 harsh winters in a row decimated the population and just last year the population was hit again. We still have very high deer numbers in the areas of Ontario where coyote populations are the highest, which also happens to be in the areas where there is a larger number of people as well as farms. The deer benefit from agriculture and the coyotes benefit from the large deer numbers. Now that the deer numbers are falling then number of coyotes have to drop with that, this will occur when the amount of food decreases.
We re-introduced elk which are now considered nuisance animals around Bancroft. We re-introduced turkeys and the MNR are giving cull permits for them. The MNR are still giving cull permits for deer in many locations in Ontario, but yet you state that coyotes are killing them all off.
Coyotes are just as native as the turkey or the elk, they just did not need any help getting established.
We usually start first snow and at xmas break when the guys that have to work are out. Only this week when mating got into full swing did we start seeing a few more. But they are in groups more now so instead of finding one or a pair we seem to find more in a bush and they don't want to run.Quote:
Originally Posted by trappermatt
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I disagree on that
reason being "we" have pushed our wildlife away by urban sprawl and change of habitat in order to have a sustainable population we now must intervene. I'd far rather see a healthy deer herd so instead of guys worrying about shouting a deer they start to selectively harvest without worrying about the neighbor shouting the next up and coming stud. this can only happen if hunters are regularly seeing deer and letting deer get to maturity and keeping the proper buck to doe ratio. none of this can happen without large deer numbers
does this come at a huge cost of course it does. ever driven on an interstate through Pennsylvania, Ohio or Michigan there's deer all over the highways and there has been diseases that have had outbreaks across the mid west
Dan
I don't know..... I like coyotes.... they are pretty cool looking....I also think they have a very kind/loving demeanor (the way they raise their young). Don't mind taking a few out each year but would hate to see them totally vanish.
What???Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
I don't mind them either, too bad if you don't like it!
A local group of coyote hunters always end up with kills in the 50's every year, hunting the same blocks of bush.
What. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Huntnfish
What don't you comprehend? I think I might be replying to Rambo in the previous posts that say we should kill them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
You've got that right Frank , if they were all gone, it would be a long cold boring winter wouldn't it .
I was just bugging yah. Lol No hard feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntnfish
I agree. I know they can be a nuisance but they really are facinating animals. I have nothing against people shooting them but they have an uncanny ability to breed to their habitat so really the only way to control them effectively is to wipe them out. It would be nice to maintain a manageable population but they seem to be an all or nothing animal.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
Big Jack - I understand where you are coming from here. Much of the difference of opinion in this thread is likely due to the fact that not many on here have seen a deer population collapse like it has in our area. I have probably hunted some of the same general area as you in recent years. Although lately it's hardly worth deer hunting at all in that particular part of WMU 73.
For those that don't know, 10 or 15 years ago the Cavan/Bethany/Millbrook area was an absolute deer hunter's dream. It was as close to guaranteed as it gets if you put your time in throughout the season. Permission on private land in was the holy grail for deer hunters. I can't remember the exact number now, but I believe that well over 1000 additional tags were available in 73 up until the end of 2012. In 2013 and 2014 there were zero. I realize that many other areas saw drastic reductions as well but as I've said before, I think the MNR was late in reducing the additional tags. But hunters were not the only issue and "winter" was certainly not the main issue either. There has been no shortage of food (standing corn) available to deer in this part of 73. Snow conditions weren't good because of the crust but crust alone will not kill deer. Coyotes and crust will. 10 or 15 years ago it was quite rare to see a coyote in the bush around here. Now, it's rare to see a deer and coyotes are everywhere. Same story from hunters all around here... few to no deer, nothing but coyotes. Turkey numbers are way down as well. For hunters around here, coyotes are the most visible cause of the deer decline.
Although other factors are/were present, it's foolish to think that coyotes are not taking a huge chunk out of the deer population. Any deer tracks you find around here right now often have coyote tracks on it. Coyotes are not going to waste energy chasing deer around if they don't expect to kill them. If you have a healthy deer/coyote population right now, enjoy the deer hunting while you can. I hope that in a few years you don't end up wondering what happened to the deer (and everything else) in your area too. Maybe (hopefully) this little part of the province where Big Jack and I live is unique in some way, but something has definitely gone wrong here.
I really enjoy the opportunity to get out hunting over the winter too but I shoot them on sight during any other season, usually at the specific request of the landowner. Although I like to think that for every coyote I shoot another deer or two might survive the winter, it's most likely I am just making less competition for the next coyote. There's no real solution, I'm sure they're here to stay, but I'm glad to see them being hunted more actively these days.
Excellent post GW11! Many don't understand that things are very different from one area to the next.
Well said! Sums it up better than I could.
Totally agree. That's exactly the way it has been in my area. Everything is disappearing. A lot less deer. Won't see that surplus tag for a while. That's fine with me though I just like getting out there in the bush. I will shoot yotes all season long. Farmers around here that won't let you hunt any other game will be happy to let you hunt yotes. You will see them a lot around farms when the calves are born. All the yotes I have seen have all been together except one. Usually about five or six in a pack. The thing is after you shoot one another one usually is there to take its spot. It's a cycle that we can't stop.
Farmers around here that won't let you hunt any other game will be happy to let you hunt yotes. Quote.
Sorry but that line just irks me.
Mike
Why is that? The yotes try to get their calves. So they are more then happy to let you come in and take a few out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeman
Farmers that won't let you hunt other game do NOT deserve to have a hunter protect their flock/herd. Just Sayin.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
I see it as another opportunity to maybe get the permission to hunt other game and getting to know them after you take out a few yotes. Yah never know he might change his mind. I don't see the problem at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
Plus I live in the area I hunt I either know them or heard of them. There are other factors in there to. Maybe he hunts other game back there or one of his friends or family hunts there. Maybe he don't like people on his land but if he says yes for yotes I will jump on the opportunity even if he doesn't end up letting me hunt there for deer ect. Just being out hunting yotes is good for me. New land new dogs that could be easier to call them in then the ones at your other spots that you just killed his brother and you have educated now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
True. My apologies.
Mike
"They are not a balancing factor in our ecosystem, rather they imbalance it. Their reproductive capabilities coupled with their inherent adaptive capabilities make them hard to control. Keep in mind they eat EVERYTHING."
If you are concerned about their reproductive capabilities then killing them by hunting is not the answer. It is very difficult to control the coyote population by hunting because when the population feels threatened they will reproduce even more voraciously. It is disease and exceeding the carrying capacity that will truly limit the population on a grander scale. Even if you wipe out all the coyotes in your one or two deer bushes there will be more young ones looking for new territory to move in. Once they reach carrying capacity they will succumb to disease (mange and other parasites) and the population will decline. I hunt them as well but in no way do I think I am going to wipe out the population. Guys with dogs will put coyotes up out of the same bushes weekend after weekend and year after year. If they can't do it what is a guy with a rifle and a call going to do.
Get out in the fresh air and enjoy a day in the field. Or should we all just sit home and get fat in the winter?:joker:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudsee
[QUOTE=Snowwalker;869422]Get out in the fresh air and enjoy a day in the field. Or should we all just sit home and get fat in the winter?:joker:[
Mmm. Pizza.
X2. I often get accused of merely taking my rifle for a walk LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Telling farmers what they deserve. pricelessQuote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
Not sure if you agree to that comment or is that sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
A lot of people don`t like wolves either. When I lived in Northern Ontario it was common to see packs of 15 to 20 timber wolves running lakes looking for moose and caribou. It is quite a thrilling sight and a true part of nature. Yes...have fun killing them and making a few bucks off the pelts but nature will always manage the resource way better than us humans can and have. If it wasn`t for human interference with habitat and over harvest and displacement animals...we would not have to artificially manage populations.
More facetious. To make an attempt at being funny, while being sarcastic at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
Facetious by golly my iPhone says that is a word. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Angus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
The way I see it is I am a hunter. I hunt for my purposes, my benefit, my enjoyment, my tradition. I hunt primarily to put game meat on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
I am not animal control, predator control. I am not a market hunter. My services are not to be bought.
I do see synergies, and should a landowner who is granting me access for hunting game ask me to help with nuisances, predators etc, I would happily oblige...but I'm not about to be used for free predator control.
Call me a FUDD or whatever you want but I believe in a simple rule, if you aren't going to eat it or wear it you shouldn't be killing it. Obviously protecting your flock is somewhat of an exception...but I'm a hunter not a free predator control service.
I enjoy being out the field doesn't matter what I am hunting. If all a guy will let me hunt Is predators then so be it. I am thankful for that. One less to worry about. I am from a farming community I have worked on farms. Farmers are the backbone where I live and they work hard. I not going to call you anything we just see things differently. If I can help out a farmer I don't expect nothing in return but more then half the time after seeing you a few times they will let you come back for other game which is just a bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
If it wasn't for farmers I wouldn't have a place to hunt at all.
Wow. So you think a landowner owes you the privilege of deer hunting before you'll help out with the "chore" of predator hunting. As a landowner all I can say maybe you should look at what you can do to help out BEFORE you even think of asking to hunt deer. You might be surprised at the doors it opens for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
Exactly and well said . Amazing the amount of grounds I have gained over the years from even antis once I deal with nuisance critters FIRST . It opens many ,many doors . It can be a slow process but it works . As a landowner I tell you what I want done and only that . You don't dictate to me or I'll find someone else quick .Quote:
Originally Posted by TPM
TD
TD
I am going to retire soon to some little patch of land in Norfolk county and be able to fish and hunt all day , any day I want ( season permitting) and I believe the season on coyotes is open year round. Dang ! I'll have to go out and buy me a varmint rifle.
Yeah coyotes are open all season Haldimand/Norfolk. That will keep yah busy lots around. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by longpointer
Plus you get to hunt Sunday's in Norfolk don't get to do that in Haldimand.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1324
I guess I'll need to make some friends in Haldimand so I can trade off some Sunday hunts for the Feb. goose hunt ? LoL !
Nice post. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11