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I used to know a gun dealer who will correct customers when they come in looking for weapons for hunting. He tells them he sells firearms, not weapons. He said by definition a weapon is
"any instrument or device for use in attack in combat, fighting,or war,as a sword, knife, clubs, firearm,or cannon"
Any of you correct your friends or family when they ask you about your weapons used for hunting?
Nope...
I have never really heard people say "let me get my weapon"
I usually say let me get my gun, rifle, bow
weapon sounds weird.
I guess it would depend on the audience if I would say something. An anti maybe I would. A fellow hunter I would probably just chuckle.
It is usually non-hunters that I hear the use of the word weapons when they ask me about my guns. A different mindset.
People don't like to call them "weapons" because there is of course an aggressive connotation. Frankly, just about anyone I ever talk to just calls them guns.
As far as the law is concerned, guns are weapons by definition.
I would say that definition is based on their use. When at a range they're most definitely not a weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Before the PAL I had a FAC (Firearm Acquisition License) issued by the FEDs. It didn't say Weapon Acquisition License.
That would apply to anything in the world except a firearm.Quote:
Originally Posted by M_P
The law says something is a weapon if it is designed, used, or intended as such. So a knife is not a weapon per se. But guns are actually an exception to that rule. They are considered weapons regardless.
This is actually an important point, when it comes to things like concealed weapons charges, and it ought to be covered on the CFSC. Kind of a side point on this thread, though.
But no, I don't call my guns "weapons."
I don't call them weapons, and the same goes for,I prefer to harvest, not just kill something
Gun owners have a bad enough image in the general public's mind without having our "firearms" called "weapons".
Saw more than few few guys chanting this up on the table in the corner at boot camp..
..it's a 'rifle' lads.........
Sgt .Hartman ...Classic
...don't ever have an instructor from the Artillery and make the mistake of calling a rifle a "gun"......much jacking up to be had.
It's like people asking me, "did you catch anything".
Not so much with family and friends because they know and respect my position,as I,theirs. You bet,every chance I get,especially if they're the "anti" hunting/firearms type,though. I use it,along with when they're calling a rifle,revolver or pistol a gun,to immediately put them on the defensive,like they haven't a clue what they're talking about and making them look like idiots when the spout off in front of others that don't know anything about hunting,shooting or,for that matter,anything else outdoor related. I have found that people that conduct themselves in that manner (usually the uppity academic types) are nothing but bullies that assume they've found a "redneck buffoon" to publicly humiliate by making the assumption that they're making themselves appear smarter,bigger or tougher than they are,at my expense. I use it very candidly,respectfully and without appearing overly aggressive or threatening while leaving absolutely no doubt that things will get that way very quickly if they don't lose the attitude. Then,again,that's one thing I always excel at....telling idiots to go to he** and actually leaving them to look forward to the trip. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by lanarkhunter
I have to catch myself since I have prior military history, but I normally refer to it as a rifle. Despite the semantics I think it is a good idea to refer to them as something other than weapons...
Everybody I associate with knows the difference. :) On the other hand, anyone who uses the word "weapon" (when referring to guns only used for sporting purposes) might as well be holding a giant red flag that reads "I know nothing about guns, and most likely have an anti-gun agenda" lol I'd rather know who these goobers are upfront, and to me...there is almost no easier way to pick them out of a crowd. I never get cornered, or have to defend my interest in firearms, reloading, hunting, fishing etc. Back when that happened from time to time, I decided I needed to hang out with a different crowd. More than 1/2 of my friends are non-hunters, but thanks to me...understand and respect it more than they ever did. Most of them enjoy shooting now too, but conveniently believe that ammo mustn't cost anything. lol I'm teaching some of their kids to shoot now too, a good investment in the future of the shooting sports in Canada I figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by lanarkhunter
Does it make it any more uncomfortable for you to carry a weapon as opposed to a firearm. Does it make you feel better to say you harvested an animal instead of killing it. Sounds like the people who think their meat comes manufactured on trays, and don't want to know where it really comes from.
No I don't refer to my rifle as a weapon, but I also take no offence is someone else calls it that.
...call it a bang, or boom stick......no one can fault that...
Yeah my butter knife is the only weapon I own . Should see it spearing and hacking the butter when I get mad and it's froze .
TD
Yeah, nearly everyone doesn't think it matters if you call a rifle a (shot)gun and nobody has the slightest problem when you call a bow a firearm (certainly not in Ontario), but if you say weapon it shows you cannot have a clue...
LOL
Isn't it ridiculous, that we prefer to use completely incorrect terms to avoid the semantics that an otherwise technically correct word might be associated with.
First thing I thought of Mike. That and the dope smoker's term "clip" instead of Magazine got a few laps and push ups at the Academy. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Even the experts get it wrong sometimesQuote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
Have a look at this Savage "clip" (word just visible on left hand side)
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/pr...95340030_1.jpg
I agree Blasted Saber, but Savage didn't have the power of pass or fail over me. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
iam for guns/firearm i dont thinkive heard any say yah i got weapons license or ill go grab my weapons after all there is Chief firearms officer must be a city thing maby a hipster lol
From the CC of C
“weapon”
« arme »
“weapon” means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use
- (a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
- (b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person
and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm and, for the purposes of sections 88, 267 and 272, any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use in binding or tying up a person against their will;
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...46/page-1.html
HA
This is my rifle...............THIS is my GUN............one is for killin and one is for fun.
Can't say I've ever used the term "harvest" when it comes to hunting. Actually, I guess that was the first time.Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
"Weapon" just sounds odd when used in reference to hunting. Not necessarily wrong, just out of place. Come to think of it, I rarely ever use "firearm" either. I suppose most of the time it's "rifle", "shotgun", "muzzle-loader" and if I'm feeling lazy and want to keep it to one syllable I'll use "gun".
Yes, anything can be a weapon, including firearms. However, we don't hunt with weapons, not unless you're hunting people, which as i understand it, is illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntaway
The reason for that is simple. You don't need a license to acquire any other form of weapon. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by lanarkhunter
Just another nomenclature thing for people to be offended by. Hunters are just as bad. I've seen people get all high and mighty when people call a detachable magazine a clip.(Even though it says "clip" right on the Savage package). I myself am bothered by anyone who calls cartridges "bullets", or calls bullets "tips". Mostly because I've gone to a store like the one in Smith's Falls where the salesman gave me a smug look when I asked for "25 calibre bullets for reloading". His response was "Umm, well, there's several .25 calibre bullets. .25-06, .25-35, then when I said, "not CARTRIDGES. I asked for BULLETS", ...oh....you mean TIPS? Nah, we don't sell those."
I do refer to my firearms as either rifle, shotgun or muzzleloader. I never call them weapons. As many have pointed out, that has an aggressive connotation.
When the term "Assault Weapon/Rifle" gets used at the truckstop lunch counter, I always ask the person "What is an Assault rifle?". They normally go on about how an assault rifle is a weapon that is used to attack people. Then at some point I take my spoon in my hand and ask them what I am holding. They say "A spoon!" to which I reply "So if I hit you with it, does that not make it an "ASSAULT SPOON?"Quote:
Originally Posted by grog
FINALLY, the RCMP are getting the tools they need......PATROL CARBINES. When we the public get them, Wendy Kookier, the liberals, and media calls them Assault Rifles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Not much BIAS eh?
Me 2 KC. I usually ask for bullets if I'm buying reloading stuff. I usually ask for a specific caliber and grain "cartridge" or box of shells in caliber and gr.
Patrol Carbines for RCMP, Assault Rifle, black rifle baby killers for the rest of us........all in the spin, sorry "nomenclature."
I'm sure the clip/mag Academy nomenclature was simply a way to haze, punish and intimidate cadets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntaway
Well doesn't that muddy the waters.....In the hands of a LEO ..they are correctly called 'Weapons' !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
So it's technically an Assault Weapon....but in the hands of a Civilian, the same gun is just a Rifle...
Damn I must be considered as " weaponing up " . Personally I am more worried about a sicko with a lighter than a firearm .
TD
My "evil looking" AR-15 is a firearm. My fire-breathing S&W 500 magnum cannon is a firearm.
If I threaten to throw a rock at you it is a weapon. It's all in the delivery....the intention.
Many Americans buy 'firearms' solely for self-defense. Those firearms ARE weapons. I think that is why you'll see them referred to as 'weapons' on American gun websites.
By definition, police and military carry weapons.
That is why you don't say "for self-defence" when you transfer a handgun (wildlife carry notwithstanding). You purchased it "to take to the range". If you buy it to protect yourself from bad-guys you will not be approved.
CCC Definition
“weapon” means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use
- (a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
- (b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person
I own firearms...I do not own weapons!
With respect to the Criminal Code and firearms, that's incorrect. Firearms are always considered weapons in the Criminal Code, regardless of their design, use, or intended use. You left out the bit that comes next: "without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm," not to mention the circular logic whereby a firearm is defined in the code as a "barrelled weapon." This is established in case law, for example people who carried a concealed firearm and then said it was not a "weapon" and so they were not carrying a concealed weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansherpa
Again, whether we actually think of our rifles and shotguns as weapons is another question entirely.
Along the same lines......
Four of us were coming back from a weekend archery tournament in the states, at the border they asked me if we had any weapons. I thought about it for a minute and said.... nope, needless to say that started a fifteen minute lecture on how we could use our bows as weapons.
I followed with....they are target bows that were never designed to kill anything, but I guess they could. He chuckled and let us through.
Interesting question. I thought I only owned firearms and have no weapons. Question: assuming I commit no crime with a firearm, the criminal code does not apply and get to refer to my firearm as a weapon. Therefore all I own are firearms?
I guess that is why they're governed by the Firearms Act in Canada....and if you use it as a weapon then it falls under the Criminal Code with a whack of firearm related charges tacked on :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RonGo
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/p...ct-loi-eng.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonGo
Nope. The Firearms Act is regulatory in nature and all the actual offences are in the Criminal Code itself. The Criminal Code always applies, and its definition of "weapon" determines if you have committed a weapons offence.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
For example, if you wrap your rifle in your coat so as not to alarm people, you have committed the offence of carrying a concealed weapon, because the rifle is a weapon regardless of your intent and you have taken steps to conceal it from view. That's the ruling of the Supreme Court.
Again, that has nothing to do with whether you call your hunting rifle a weapon vs. a rifle or a gun or a bangstick or whatever else, or whether you think of it as a weapon. I would think very few hunters do, so this is really a bit of a red herring to the OP.
so when they say they are "also charged with various firearms offences" they are not referring to offences as defined under the the Firearms Act or under the Criminal Code ?
Yes. They are charged with firearms offences under the Criminal Code.
You can't be charged under the Firearms Act. It just provides a regulatory framework for the Criminal Code. So, for example, the Criminal Code says it is an offence to sell a firearm knowing that the transfer is not authorized, and the Firearms Act describes the circumstances in which transfers are authorized. Or, the Firearms Act and its associated regulations define how firearms must be stored, but the offence of unsafe storage is actually in the Criminal Code.
That's hair splitting, I know. But it goes to the point that the Criminal Code always applies to what you do with your gun.
Thanks Welsh...I'll blame my ignorance on the topic from reading poorly written/worded newspaper articles...as I have no first hand knowledge :)Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
I do find this very interesting. The criminal code refers to firearms as weapons but only after a crime has been committed. If I am legally transporting a firearm in the back of my vehicle I have not committed a crime and having no intention of doing so I could refer to it as a firearm? Do I have that correct Welch?
Also I've read the explosives act and it provides the regulations relating to fireworks, gun powder, primers and safety cartridges (what we know as a loaded cartridge). I've always found it strange how most don't know that is the governing document in how much/many you can have, how they are stored, what the contained should look like, etc and NOT the firearms act.
No. For the purposes of the Criminal Code, a firearm is a weapon regardless of whether a crime has been committed. It is not a crime to possess a weapon, or to transport one. But it is a crime to possess a weapon with the intent to use it on someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonGo
Doesn't matter whether you call it a firearm, a gun, a rifle, a bangstick, or Old Betsy. Pretty much the only person who cares what you call it is you.
I agree with the gun store owner. Too many journalists use the word weapon. Weapon is something that is used to hurt someone. A firearm is a tool used for hunting or sport shooting. We should all be correcting people. Admittedly, I don't correct someone everytime the word weapon is used, but I often do.
Like it or not, firearms were designed and invented as killing implements - yes, weapons. Some of you might want to read up on the history of firearms. It doesn't matter what Canada's legal definition of a firearm or weapon is. It doesn't matter that you don't like it. What matters is how you use your firearm.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ough-pictures/
http://inventors.about.com/od/milita...firearms_2.htm
http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetect.../gun-timeline/
http://www.nramuseum.org/gun-info-re...-firearms.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_firearm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_(tool)
No different then a steak knife. It's a tool until someone turns it into a weapon. Rifles are tools until used as a weapon simple as that. We're not in the military, we're in the bush. We don't own weapons, we own firearms.
FishFrenzy
Annie get Your FirearmQuote:
Originally Posted by lanarkhunter
Annie get your weapon
Annie get your g_n
Would anyone like to buy a vowel
Weapons are for combat purposes. Firearms are for Hunting and range shooting. If you come from a military background weapon may be your term. I will always refer to mine as firearms , gun or smoke pole !!!! LOL.
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by scribe
Well, I was taught that words were just tools to convey ideas. A dictionary might try to limit their useage but times change.
A magazine is a place where ammunition is stored until needed, a clip is something to hold a bunch of ammo together. A magazine can be removable or part of the battleship, but a clip is portable. By this definition, those elastic shell holders that I have on my single shots are magazines, and if used on a Rem auto, can only hold five shells!
Exactly how I take it. Only something used with the intent to produce severe body harm and/or death can be called weapon. Key word being “INTENT”.Quote:
Originally Posted by scribe
I consider them firearms until they have been used in a criminal offence. Then I consider them weapons.
HA