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was telling my friend about a spot that i want to hunt and fish camp with family and told him i was going to ride my atv in. he told me that i need a trail pass to do this even tho its on crown land ??
i began to tell him how crown is for all to use but he wouldnt back down so i started to look into it and have found some of a gray area hear ?
some help please
gg
What is the location?
Depends on your location but for the most part you are good to go on crown land. There are a few scenarios where you could run into an issue would be private land locked crown or crossing culverts installed by the local club but that's pretty rare. In any case should you get a charge I'm sure the court would be quick to dismiss it on the fact that most trails were built not by atv clubs but loggers.
If it crosses private property you need a permit. You are trespassing otherwise. The further noth you go the less of an issue this is. Generally speaking south of North Bay this would be a concern for me. Here in Muskoka/Parry Sound almost all of our trails cross private property at some point.
Here you can use trails to fish, hunt or access your land if it does not cross anothers private land, without a permit. There is no part of the trail here that crosses private.
You are correct Chris. If the trail you are on is the normal route to access your hunt camp or if you are going to a back lake to fish , you are legally allowed on groomed snowmobile trails.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris lavoie
My concern with this growing topic is that, in the recent past there seems to be a lot of "clubs" ie.. (Jeep, ATV, and snowmobile just to name a few) laying claim to random tracts of crown land, with the suggestion that their club is the authority in the region, and if you have not paid their tole, you are not welcome to use said tract of land, and should you continue, this could lead to monetary loss.
Now there is the subject of depending on the season, just because you can, should you be travelling on a recognized snowmobile trail, I personally try to respect other user groups, in their defined season.
That said, for the average Canadian it is somewhat misleading, when no matter what outdoor activity you choose as a hobby, there are 17 groups that feel you should be purchasing one of their permits to continue to enjoy the use of crown land.
In reality their is no merit to their claim.
It depends where you are going. If you plan on going in the Kawartha Signature Park you can not take any vehicle. You have to be part of a camp or a land owner and have a GPS registered trail.
deb
Absolutely correct. This has been a burr under my saddle for a very long time. No organization should be able to demand membership to access public land or to set any "rules" as to their use outside of provincial or federal law. Membership should be completely voluntary and if folks want to abide by their by-laws or a club constitution....go nuts. Leave the rest of us alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Walker
Are we talking using it in winter (snow in the ground groomed trails) or summer?
To use an OFSC trail for recreation is against the law unless you are a permit holder or you are using the most direct route from an access point to the lake or your camp etc. These clubs used to get on my nerves as it seemed often they would take long time trails over and start grooming them essentially trying to force everyone to buy one of their permits.
If you are talking ATV trails in the summer it depends where and what property ownership is and even local bylaws.
In some municipal/county forests their bylaws state you must have a membership with x-club to use the trails.
In some places the trail club has secured land owner rights to cross land, anyone not holding a membership/permit is trespassing.
In some places common trails do cross deeded land, but you would never know as the land is not marked as prescribed in the TPA. In these cases you cannot be charged with an offence to TPA.
Now somethings boil down to your integrity and the integrity of the clubs (see my comment above). These clubs secure MNRF work permits and materials and labour to construct bridges, install culverts, brush out trails, groom trails (snowmobile), if you are using the bridge, culvert and enjoying the brushed out trail/groomed trail that much more than the unadulterated trail, is the cost of a permit really that much of a burden for someone considering purchasing a camp/acreage?
Just my $.05 (no more pennies)
For the majority of ontario's population trails do cross private property. Vermillion Bay is a lot different then southern and central ON.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris lavoie
All good points for consideration.
Point of reference, I'm a fisherman, have been since I was a child, generational if that helps with perspective.
I fish about five weeks a year North of North Bay, and I've been camping and travelling Crownland for the past 25yrs, always practice no trace camping, and have been travelling these, un maintained/logging roads and Queens Bush Trails, and up till about 3yrs ago, I was never questioned about what I was up to, in the recent past it seems every time I leave the pavement someone flags me down in/on a Jeep/ATV and my intentions, keeping in mind I'm driving a Jeep with a boat and Camping gear for a weeks stay, as well I drive in, and I drive out a week later, not like I'm doing any major back country travel.
I had one young guy tell me I was trespassing, and recommended that I purchase a permit first.
These Clubs are good if this your thing, but I don't believe that they're non profit, or as honourable as they would have you think.
Someone is making serious money, from selling land use permits for land they don't own.
that is the nice part of having a trapping lic ,we can us all the trails on public land with out there lic .Dutch
Trails in Vermilion Bay use to cross private but about 8 or 9 years ago they moved all trails to crown.
sorry guys on way home from a install
i was thinking the trails on scotch line minden area and the trails near black river
there is some nice spots to go camping there with my family fish and huntmy atv is for fishing on the lake when water is hard but finding other uses for it.
thanks all
gg
As a former director of one those ATV clubs and as a former warden I have a few small things to add to this discussion. Snowmobile clubs have provincial support and a whole lot of years building the industry as it is today. Atv clubs are only supported by it's membership revenue and it is truly a burden just trying to build a trail on a volunteer basis alone. More often than not you here complaints about why are there not more trails connected, why can't I use the trails built by another ATV club? The answer is overly simple, people expect the trails to be there ready to ride and go for miles without interruption instantly, but are not interested in the actual making of the trails. The dangers of which can be extensive. As far as permits go, I personally can't be bothered with them, just as soon as you buy one they start hounding you for volunteer hours and club participation. Don't get me wrong folks, if it's your thing to be a part and contribute, go for it. I had some of my greatest moments within that venue. But it's more important that you know the LAW put upon rider by the police forces and each municipality.
Wear the gear, be plated and insured, I never once stopped or sent anyone back out of the woods as a trail warden. If it's plated and insured, you are wearing the safety gear, mindful of the laws I doubt you will ever be charged and if you do it rarely stands up in court. One more thing I really think you ALL should be aware of, the insurance the clubs claim to provide you, only protects them. If you get hurt, or you hurt some one else it can and will fall back onto your house insurance policy. You are wide open to law suit!! Beware, be safe!
Our biggest problem around here seems to be that few people know what is Crown versus private. There are landowners with thousands of acres of land that OFSC trails cross, but it is PRIVATE land. There are also corridor trails that follow rail beds or hydro lines that are PRIVATE. There are miles of trails where Land Use agreements have been signed with the townships. These might as well be private. There are miles of OFSC trails that are signed AS IF they are private, but are on Crown Land.
It is only the later that you can use to access back lakes, hunt camps etc. South of Bancroft there are hundreds of acres and dozens of lakes, interconnected with groomed trails where you can use whatever you want, whenever you want, except when there is a car rally running. Up by the park there are trails where a club has a signed agreement with a township covering TOWNSHIP owned property that you will need a permit to use. This is not Crown, but township owned land....and classed as private.