Property Ownership of severed lots

Good morning,

Wondering what tips and tricks you fellow private land seekers use to find out who owns the woodlots and crops behind those nice big country homes throughout southern Ontario?

Typically you find some nice acreage of woodlot and fields/crops with a portion of the lot severed which now has a nice house on it. Their is clear distinction between the fields and the severed lot. Unfortunately these lands are owned by farmers that do not reside on the property and only grow crop on it. How do you typically find the owner of the lots?

Have you had success asking the owner of the severed portion?

Is there another way other then the public registry which i believe has a fee to it in Ontario and potentially another pending on municipality.

Thanks in advance,

Ask the neighbours if you don't feel comfortable asking the owner of the new house.

Farmers know who owns the land around them, go up and have a chat and try to do it when they are not busy.

Good luck

A quick trip to your local land registry office will get you all the info you need....for a fee. Be sure you have the legal description of the lot.

Isn't it a tough one to split up farmland?? Regulations pertaining to the subdividing.

Be careful with that one as some landowners might not be too receptive to someone that dug around in municipal offices/documents to find out who they are. I recommend the hat in hand, asking politely at doors for information method.

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Originally Posted by chris lavoie

Isn't it a tough one to split up farmland?? Regulations pertaining to the subdividing.

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Not in southern Ontario. They are in the process of paving the whole thing over. Most of what is now GTA was farmland 50 years ago.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Not in southern Ontario. They are in the process of paving the whole thing over. Most of what is now GTA was farmland 50 years ago.

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Yep and it was originally settled for a reason, it was the best farmland in the entire country. Gone.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Not in southern Ontario. They are in the process of paving the whole thing over. Most of what is now GTA was farmland 50 years ago.

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yes its too bad some areas are like this , some other areas this doesnt happen so much

It's my understanding that farmland must be sold as a whole. Severing off a one acre lot is permissable only for a family member to build a house on. The lot can never be separately sold as a stand-alone. It must remain part of the farm.

Trimmer, that's the info I was looking for. Its quite hard here to subdivide farmland here.

its not always as simple as severing an acre or no , county offical plans regulate much of what goes on and they are formed from direction in the provincial policy statment

What affects severances is zoning...AG Agricultural, RP Resource Protection or ES Environmentally sensitive cannot be built on - needs to be rezoned first.
Renfrew county - a lot of the marginal farmland is zoned RU - rural - which doesn't have a lot of restrictions.
There is a bizarre amount of Renfrew county zoned RP resource protection - the resource in question is...gravel. How much gravel are we going to be using?

Re provincial policy - when the NDP was running the province, that had plans to virtually shut down rural development by putting severe restrictions on severances, but never got to carry through with that.

Another thing that may restrict getting a severance is the number of undeveloped severances in the immediate area.

the local coffee shop is your best bet ,there is always one or two fellows that just love to chat that's why thy hang out at coffee shops .just start chatting with them thy will be able to give you a ton of info if you know how to ask in a indirect way ,the lost art of conversation with todays cell phones and texting ,Dutch

Well that escalated quickly!!!

Most farm lands that are severed to form a +/- 1 acre parcel were done back in the day to build a residence for farmhands etc....
Today's regime is a little different as municipality and regions dictate the land use policy for their areas. OMB appeals play a huge role in agricultural lands being re-zoned for residential housing. Flambourough within the City of Hamilton is a key example as zoning by-laws have just been passed zoning lands north of 5 agricultural leaving some businesses hanging out to dry..... (Not explained in detail, but you get the jists)

I degress....

Knocking on doors is always a good option, but when it comes up empty its a hard pill to swallow knowing their is some great opportunity beyond that white picket fence which is owned by the unknown.

Land registry office is great but as mentioned, unless your offering to purchase the land, property owners are too keen on someone knocking on there door requesting permission to hunt their land.

Thanks for your point of views and ideas.

Cheers,

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Originally Posted by Bugzy

Well that escalated quickly!!!

Most farm lands that are severed to form a +/- 1 acre parcel were done back in the day to build a residence for farmhands etc....
Today's regime is a little different as municipality and regions dictate the land use policy for their areas. OMB appeals play a huge role in agricultural lands being re-zoned for residential housing. Flambourough within the City of Hamilton is a key example as zoning by-laws have just been passed zoning lands north of 5 agricultural leaving some businesses hanging out to dry..... (Not explained in detail, but you get the jists)

I degress....

Knocking on doors is always a good option, but when it comes up empty its a hard pill to swallow knowing their is some great opportunity beyond that white picket fence which is owned by the unknown.

Land registry office is great but as mentioned, unless your offering to purchase the land, property owners are too keen on someone knocking on there door requesting permission to hunt their land.

Thanks for your point of views and ideas.

Cheers,

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Like I said, go knock on the door of the neighbouring farm and ask them if they knew who owned the land. Just mention that you are looking to chat with them, no need to tell them why exactly you are looking into the land. Most farmers are hunters too and understand what it is all about, not so much for city people building on severed lots.

BIL had 80 acres, some field some bush, one house and barn. He talked to local township and got the ok to sever into three sections, then sold it to one buyer. Each township is different, depending on the elected officials and the township tax needs. While there are provincial rules, a good lawyer and knowing the right people mean a lot.
Here in Hastings county you can go online and get a pretty accurate display of property lines.

HEY DOES YOUR AREA HAVE A SITE LIKE THIS

http://maps.niagararegion.ca/Navigator/

YOU CAN ZOOM IN AND SEE ALL THE LAND PARCELS

then go to the top right toolbar and INQUIRE by placing a dot on the map.

a window in the top left corner comes up ...run your cursor over it to highlight your pick.

there is also a measuring tool to measure distances, acreage etc.

you can go to satellite imagery and go back in time to see how things have changed.

knock on doors....it's faster and much more effective than anything else I am aware of.

The piece of property I hunt you would of never thought that they had as much land as they do.I was in a area knocking on doors and past a piece of property that looked good, went to pull a U turn in someones driveway and when I did the guy coming the other way pulled in the driveway I was going to turn around in...... I thought I would ask him as well. Talked to him and his wife and now have a good 100+ acres of land to hunt on...So just go knocking on doors, ya never know what could come of it.

I let a young lad Bow-Hunt this property for two years....he was in college and away from home and posted a note on the bulletin board at the grocery store. I saw it, understood his predicament and gave him a call.

Nice lad, ended up with joining the RCMP.

Almost all lot creation is now directed to within designated settlement areas (inside urban area boundaries).

Very limited lot creation is permitted in Agriculturally designated lands (areas where Class 1, 2 & 3 soils predominate. This lot creation is guided by the Provincial policies (PPS 2014) cited below, although municipalities can be more restrictive:

2.3.4.1 Lot creation in prime agricultural areas is discouraged and may only be permitted for:
a)
agricultural uses, provided that the lots are of a size appropriate for the type of agricultural use(s) common in the area and are sufficiently large to maintain flexibility for future changes in the type or size of agricultural operations;
b)
agriculture-related uses, provided that any new lot will be limited to a minimum size needed to accommodate the use and appropriate sewage and water services;
c) a
residence surplus to a farming operation as a result of farm consolidation, provided that:
1. the new lot will be limited to a minimum size needed to accommodate the use and appropriate
sewage and water services; and
2. the planning authority ensures that new residential dwellings are prohibited on any remnant parcel of farmland created by the severance. The approach used to ensure that no new residential dwellings are permitted on the remnant parcel may be recommended by the Province, or based on municipal approaches which achieve the same objective; and
d)
infrastructure, where the facility or corridor cannot be accommodated through the use of easements or rights-of-way.
2.3.4.2 Lot adjustments in
prime agricultural areas may be permitted for legal or technical reasons.
2.3.4.3 The creation of new residential lots in
prime agricultural areas shall not be permitted, except in accordance with policy 2.3.4.1(c).

You also have "specialty crop areas" (i.e. within the Greenbelt Plan) and the Oak Ridges Moraine Plan, where lot creation is as restricted, or more restricted, than on Agriculturally designated lands.

Next you have Rural Lands, which have a lower priority for protection as they are generally Class 4-7 soils. Here lot creation is much more flexible and is largely up to Regional, County and local Official Plan policies, which will still direct most lots to settlement areas.

Environmentally designated lands are for the most part no-go as far as lot creation.

In answer to the OP's question, use Skeeter's advice and if you can grab the property Roll Number off the public mapping (GIS) system), take that number to the municipal office where they will let you access the Roll books, which will tell you the assessed owner's name and mailing address (no phone number).

I believe NP knows his stuff on this topic from professional experience.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I let a young lad Bow-Hunt this property for two years....he was in college and away from home and posted a note on the bulletin board at the grocery store. I saw it, understood his predicament and gave him a call.

Nice lad, ended up with joining the RCMP.

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Very nice of you to do that. There should be more people like you, trusting of others.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It's my understanding that farmland must be sold as a whole. Severing off a one acre lot is permissable only for a family member to build a house on. The lot can never be separately sold as a stand-alone. It must remain part of the farm.

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townships have the ability to aprove different severences... on average a 100 acre lot is permitted to be severed no more then 4 times, no matter ownership change... there is also an option of property boundary extension, which is if you owned neighbouring property, the boundaries of your property could be extended, and would not effect the severance potential...

either go knock on doors, or the township office could provide you with owners information...

I think my township has a $850 nonrefundable charge to request a severance and they hate to give them. A big issue beside agricultural land is the increase number of 'driveways' attaching to the roads.

A few years back there was a concern that they were going to implemend a minimum 4 acres severances, for septic/well concerns etc. I'm pretty sure that was backed off.

i believe here in chisholm we need a minimum 60 meters of road frontage, and 2 acres for a severance...