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hey guys
Very busy with school and work, i don't have any time to look for hunting properties. I go to public parks and have permission on one farm. I was reading about this woodsandwater.com site where they offer for hunting properties for a price. They offer about 15 places and they are not to far from where I am. I was wondering if any one has ever tried this? How many people are involved? Does it get packed? Well any info you guys may have would be totally awesome.
Thanks again.
To the OP. The fellow mentioned in Angus' post is the guy who runs it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
He apparently also runs a guide service. IMHO, have a look at crown land use atlas and save your money.
Sorry, wasn't trying to be cryptic, I was just posting in a hurry, while thawing out in between chores !Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
And that is excellent advice Bluebulldog.
paid hunting properties.....I hate the sound of that...
I wouldn't pay cash to hunt a property.......Dont mind helping out with chores and doing jobs for the land owner though.
If the deal was for some work , I would have done it . But they want cash. The permission asking process is slow , even though it has been successful for me , hardly have time to go out hunting , let alone askin around . This seems like a good way out for the time being . Appreciate all the thoughts .
I would want to give the land a thorough scout before paying anything.
I don't see anything wrong with a pay to use property. Hunters lease land all the time.
We had a permission (100 Acre) to hunt the last 6 years for free , this year the owner asked us to help with his taxes. He asked $400 for the year for us is worth the money , we can roam around all year long . It is cheeper than to own the land .
Correction. "hunters in the US" lease land all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
If you look at the USA, there is a serious deficit of public wildlands. This comes from having a population of some 250milion crammed in a landmass that's smaller than ours. If you're looking at any map of the US, there is no such thing as "crown land" ( except in Alaska). It's either a "resource area" " state park" or "preserve".
We are blessed in this country that within a very short period of driving, you can get out of your vehicle, and simply walk in and hunt.
I get permission on local properties, but spend a lot of time just leaving early on a Sat, heading into gods country, and home just after dinner.
^^ Well said, Canada has the best hunting opportunities I have seen. John Eberhart (author of a few deer hunting books) wrote that public land in Canada sees less pressure than most private land in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Don't quite understand your response. If you barter your sweat equity for hunting access you are still hunting a paid property. Doesn't really matter the form of currency if you exchange something for any consideration guess what you paid for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
You mean by success rate (most games)or place to hunt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marker
Hunting leases for spots in the US make more sense to me. The properties are managed properly and it will be a time in Ontario when leased land is available. Already happens with outfitters. I looked at a couple of hunting clubs in South Carolina and their properties are outstanding and managed with food plots and most are over 5000 acres with alot of turkey and deer. There is one guy on kijii looking to lease his deer spot for $1200 in 82A. His spot is also hunted with his gang so it is a waste of time.
I lease 200 acres of private land in Southern Ontario, I don't have a problem doing it
"You mean by success rate (most games)or place to hunt?"
Opportunity as in geographic location and financial, but I do see your point in reference to success ratio and other comments on how leases are better managed. That is my opinion only and I have no facts but I have been on both private guided hunts and self guided and see the benefits of both.
There is lot's of crown land within a 4 hr drive of just about anyplace in Ontario. I doubt if I would ever pay "Cash" for a place to hunt.
That said I do occasionally help the land owners I know and have never had a problem getting access to private property. Just added another 90 ac this month full of Turkey and Deer in WMU 65 about 45 minutes from my home.
I would think in most cases, bartering chores, etc, would be in the favor of the land owner, versus cash, soon as cash changes hands, the land owner is now on the hook for liability.
Really not anymore if you do chores and get hurt on a working farm. Unfortunately gone are the days of a handshake being a mans word. Bit of a written contract that states landowner assumes no responsibly is a good idea. Much like you read on the back of a ticket to an amusement park absolving them of any liability along with that proof of insurance much like what you get from Anglers and hunters also good.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyRookie
I think that is more down South. Up here I know many people who still go for a handshake for simple things like that including renting land from a neighbour to grow crops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Smart...then there's no record when the cops find the marijuana....Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Would be nice to be that naïve however was referring more to the notion that cash was a dirty word. Accepting cash is no different than bartering services for access when it come to liability. Just saying offering to put something on paper is always a good idea too many lawyers out there.
I wouldn't call the people naive maybe there is more of a trust in people up here and a persons word still means something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Actually, the permission forms you get off the OFAH website are a pretty good form for permission. But then again I also deal with a few landowners who prefer hunters to be OFAH members because of the insurance coverage...( and there are some very vocal opponents to the OFAH in here who will jump all over it, and scream discrimination).
Nice world you live in.....curious do you lock your door at night?
Me, or GW?Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
GW that isQuote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
If a property came available relatively close to home with good hunting I would definitely consider entering into a lease arrangement with the landowner. Time is very valuable to me and if it allowed me to hunt more often then that would have value. Can't think of too many outdoor activities that can be done free of charge anymore. Landowners have no obligation to let people trespass on the land they own and pay taxes on.
We don't even have keys for our house. Hasn't been locked since we built it 17 years ago. That way I don't have to replace the door or window if someone breaks in (and knock on wood it hasn't happened yet). In a rural setting you don't really get the crime of opportunity where somebody finds a door unlocked and helps themselves. Break-ins tend to be targeted and a door lock won't stop them - our 2 dogs however are a far better deterrent.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
That being said if something goes wrong while hunting on private property and someone is seriously injured or killed it is naive to think that the lawyers won't be involved and in that case having the agreement on paper would certainly help.
Leaving work shortly....you left beer in the fridge right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
LOL don't forget the dog treats. Seriously think Species8472 said it best " That being said if something goes wrong while hunting on private property and someone is seriously injured or killed it is naive to think that the lawyers won't be involved and in that case having the agreement on paper would certainly help. "Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
locks only keep an honest man out...
to the original OP: ive never hunted the properties, just looked at the brochure quickly a few minutes ago... $600/year dosent seem that bad if you get access to the properties... see they only allow 1 person at a time on the properties, so if theres 100 or more people all trying to gain access you may have wasted your money... but if there isnt that many members seems like a good deal, as i pay more than that in property taxes... seems like it would be a great way for somebody living further away to get access to some properties...
The only appeal a leased property would have over crown land would be exclusivity. If you or your group were guaranteed to be the only ones using it, then it would be worth looking into. I inquired about a lease north of Haliburton a few years ago... $1500 for the week of moose, and only moose... deer hunt was extra, no opportunity to scout the land, no small game, lots of other restrictions. That was just not worth it.
If I owned a woodlot close to Toronto that thing would be listed for lease on Kijiji so dam fast. People will pay top dollar for convenience.
Myself I have never found it difficult to find private at all, right now I have access to more private land then I can even hunt. I would say the majority of farmers around here are very happy to let hunters on their property it does help if you know some people in the area. I usually mention several other land owners that I know when meeting new people.
I just got access to another 90n ac for Turkey and Deer. Didn't do the Turkey course yet so won't be Turkey hunting but I will be hunting deer there this fall.
exactly man, and that the situation i am in now, where its totally worth it for me to lease the land and go any time I want with little restrictions ( within legal limits ) , I can build a blind or one is already there, and 30 min away from home. SOLD
Thats why I posted this, I wanted to know if any one has even been involved in this particular hunting club, and how packed does it get? How many members?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy steve
Apparently,most people became unhappy after paying the outfitter big bucks for what they were told was exclusive rights,then,found other hunters on the same property that had permission to hunt from those same landowners because the outfitter didn't follow through with the agreed upon fees. Not a good way to run a business.Quote:
Originally Posted by tt_mk
depends alot on the area to though... i havent bin successfull in finding fields to goose hunt on up here... pretty well everyone that owns property up this way also hunts it... and the ones that didnt already had given out permission to other hunters...Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
also theres a couple lucky people who own 20000 acres up here, and only give permission out to family and friends...
well actually got permission on a very nice 300 acre farm a township over, but the farm sold a month later :(
"Thats why I posted this, I wanted to know if any one has even been involved in this particular hunting club, and how packed does it get? How many members?"
haha ya sorry man, after i read all the posts and made my post i went back and read your original post again, and i was like, i basically just said what he's asking... so ya, wasnt much help lol
Google the company name and the owner's name. Lots of info if you look. And it's pretty much all negative. I would give up hunting if the only option I had was to be involved with that guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Yep. If your coming from the yard on Hwy 10 it's probably on your way. If your coming from Zina Street probably not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
I pay cash and do some work around the property that I bear and deer hunt on. It is not a big deal. Everyone wins.... A lot of folks have the OFAH/CSSA/NFA insurance - some food for thought - if you are changed criminally, the you will be disqualified from using the insurance. The insurance if there for civil suits. Read the fine print on the insurance paperwork.
No insurance company pays out for a wilful criminal act. Unintentional damage to property (public liabilty) is what's covered,BUT,only after any other policy in force (such as your homeowners) at the time is exhausted. Unfortunately,anything involving firearms almost always incurs criminal charges.Quote:
Originally Posted by arclight
Office is on Zina, but I'm County wide......cheers pal. Let's get out this Spring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
ttQuote:
Originally Posted by tt_mk
you get born for free and you die for free. everything in between costs something just depends how you want to pay time, work or cash.
Would think midwives and morticians would beg to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyman
yeah but those are two bills that you don't pay yourself personallyQuote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
That would also be the best option for me. I wish i could find one sooner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
Wrong. They call it "public" land, and there is plenty of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by iHuntz
Look at your maps of the US....find uninterrupted tracts of land that aren't designated, or managed as refuge, parks, "wildlife management areas", "forestry management areas", or designated and managed by one form or another......go ahead.....I'll wait....
The US doesn't have anything that compares to what we refer to as Crown Land. Ever hunted any of those "public lands" in North Dakota? I have.....and it's a managed resource that you typically have to sign in and out of when you hunt. Let's see.....on the hwy up near Nipigon, pull over walk in.......walk for 100s of kms.....no book, no notice or signs, you can even camp 21 days without a permit.
The US is the home of the almighty dollar, and is home to 300 million people. They don't have any open spaces that aren't accounted for in one way or another. Get in the North, and the only survey that's been done is the one that the road and rail line were built on.
Don't be so hasty to call someone "wrong" out of hand.
This is an awesome deal. I'd be happy to share this cost to be able to hunt there when you aren't lol :)Quote:
Originally Posted by alfoldivandor
They are actually called BLM Lands , and are open to HUNTING.Quote:
Originally Posted by iHuntz
What is BLM ? What is the BLM?Bureau of Land Management
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...mpson_Park.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...px-Blm.svg.png Bureau of Land Management Triangle https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...gement.svg.png Flag of the Bureau of Land Management Agency overview Formed 1946 Preceding agencies
Jurisdiction United States federal government Headquarters 1849 C Street NW Room 5665, Washington, DC 20240 Employees 11,621 Permanent and 30,860 Volunteer (FY 2012)[1] Annual budget $1,162,000,000 (FY 2014 operating)[1] Agency executive
- Neil Kornze, Director
Parent agency U.S. Department of the Interior Website blm.gov
Horses crossing a plain near the Simpson Park Wilderness Study Area in central Nevada, managed by the Battle Mountain BLM Field Office
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...yon_edited.jpg
Snow-covered cliffs of Snake River Canyon, Idaho, managed by the Boise District of the BLM
The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) is an agency within the United States Department of the Interior that administers more than 247.3 million acres (1,001,000 km2) of public lands in the United States which constitutes one-eighth of the landmass of the country.[2] President Harry S. Truman created the BLM in 1946 by combining two existing agencies: the General Land Office and the Grazing Service.[3] The agency manages the federal government's nearly 700 million acres (2,800,000 km2) of subsurface mineral estate located beneath federal, state and private lands severed from their surface rights by the Homestead Act of 1862.[3] Most BLM public lands are located in these 12 western states: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Wyoming.[4]
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...encies.svg.png
This map shows land owned by different federal government agencies. The yellow represents the Bureau of Land Management's holdings.
The mission of the BLM is "to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations."[5] Originally BLM holdings were described as "land nobody wanted" because homesteaders had passed them by.[4] All the same, ranchers hold nearly 18,000 permits and leases for livestock grazing on 155 million acres (630,000 km2) of BLM public lands.[6] The agency manages 221 wilderness areas, 23 national monuments and some 636 other protected areas as part of the National Landscape Conservation System totaling about 30 million acres (120,000 km2).[7] There are more than 63,000 oil and gas wells on BLM public lands. Total energy leases generated approximately $5.4 billion in 2013, an amount divided among the Treasury, the states, and Native American groups.
Yeah. That totally sounds the same as our Crown land, doesn't it?
How many times did the word "managed" get dropped? How many times was land referred to as "holdings"....
Grazing leases, timber leases....managed assets......yup.....
You can google all you want, but like I said, and you have yet to prove. The US does not have a Crown Land system, or anything remotely resembling it. Most places in the lower 48 are defined by borders, surveys, and are actively managed. NOTHING like the vast tracts of uninhabited land that we have just to the North of us.
leasing hunting land is a degrigation of all hunting in Canada. Anyone who does it should give their heads a shake. I would wait about 5 years and you will be able to buy farmland ultra cheap when agriculture goes tits up
The problem is, people use "Crown land" to refer to all kinds of land open to the public that is not in fact Crown land, and you're using "Crown land" to mean actual Crown land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Yeah, cause people are eating less, and the world will need less food as the population continues to go exponentialQuote:
Originally Posted by The Phoenix
No they are called BLM lands. Federal own and State managed and in most places not really differant then crown land. You got places that you can't use motorized vehicles ( I really like those), and some time of year controls.. But it is still public land held in trust for the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
One of the biggest problems is I no alot of older people that brag about having more land to hunt on then they can ever hunt but yet there always on the search I spoke to one farmer last year had 200 acres he told me he had already given permission to someone else but that guy and he's group have not showed up in 2 years but still wouldn't let anyone hunt there because those guys had permission if ppl just had the land they need there would be more for every one else
Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunomoreira
I know? Sucks eh?
If it were only agriculture use that put pressure on land prices, that *might* happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phoenix
However, there is a huge demand for recreational property within about 4 hours of any large city, and that's not going to go away.
True. And not only recreational property. Good old urban sprawl and people moving out to "the country" as long-range commuters.
Get used to it because it is going to be the norm.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phoenix
Maybe,to a large extent in southern Ontario where most land is privately owned,but,we need to remember that vast areas of Crown Land are 3-4 hours drive north and you can camp and hunt the various game seasons at your leisure,unimpeded. In Canada,we are truly blessed......unless the politicians screw it all up,of course,as they like to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckguy
This business and operator has a very poor reputation. Was he not charged with shooting a neighbours dog and claiming he thought it was a coyote !
They mostly stick to guided goose hunts now which are about the easiest thing to hunt in southern Ontario and more fitting for their skill levels. Plus dogs don't fly so that keeps it simple for them.
Once the Algonquin land claim goes through, I think a lot of us will be leasing former crown lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I'm guessing that once the algonquins own this land, you will get your deer/bear/moose license from them, not the MNR, so although it may cost more, it may be an improvement over the status quo. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Re: leasing in southern Ontario, what you are really paying for is the convenience of hunting close to the big smoke in an area where there is not much hunting land available.