http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/02/24...s-desk-tuesday
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This political battle is far from over. If the State Department gives it the green light, what will Obama do, ignore their recommendation? Or if it is packaged with some other much needed legislation what then? Lots of maneuvering yet before this thing is dead.
Hopefully this helps pave the way for our pipeline to the East coast. Harper has worked hard on reducing our dependance on the USA by opening up new trade markets. The so called environmentalists think trucking oil is safer and has less of a carbon footprint than pipelines. the good people of LacMegantic might argue that.
Obama is a clown - I don't think he has done anything right - as Rome burned Nero played the violin - as the U.S. went down the tubes - Obama played golf - I see little hope for the U.S. - the dumbing down of the electorate makes it impossible - with so many stupid people voting for all the freebies there isn't much you can do -
We have politicians running the country who are as stupid as you can get - recently some state department spokesman comes out with a statement that if we gives jobs to the terrorists they will stop their madness - then we have one saying that we should pass the health care bill so we can find out what is in it - then we put a guy who was a community organizer in as president - a guy who hasn't the slightest idea how to run anything - except his mouth - in the end the people get what they deserve - it was a nice ride while it lasted - meanwhile all is quiet on the southern front -
He never had any intention to allow it to pass. The sooner this sorry excuse of a President is gone the better.
http://www.therebel.media/_keystone_...american_enemy
The thing is do the Republicans have an electable replacement? They run control both houses but the Presidency is the ultimate marketing position. It takes someone who is slick and well financed. It also has a great deal of power as this veto just proves. Not that different than us in Ontario. Hudak wasn't wrong in what he intended to do. It was what is inevitable regardless of who is in power. But politics is a game and sadly far too weighted to sex appeal and charisma. Hudak is as charismatic as your dentist. We all hate the dentist even if he is doing what is necessary.
True Terry , I am not sure if the republicans have that person yet , it looks like Billary Clinton may be the person to beat and that could be a tough battle. As for dentist's ?? You haven't met mine. She is not only a very capable dentist but she is also VERY attractive. ;)
As hunters and conservationists aren't you guys opposed to the pipeline and what it will do the environment and land that has to be used for it?
No, not at all. this project has been under such intense scrutiny and had to pass the strictest safety standards of any project in recent history. A pipeline is the safest way to move the product as well as the greenest as trucks or trains wont be moving it. Not to mention what it would mean to the economies of both countries.
Not at all. I see the alternaive of moving it by rail and truck as far more damaging to the environment. Pipelines once built don't emit carbon from diesel fumes. Pipelines aren't at the mercy of road conditions or incompetent drivers. Building replacement transport vehicles as they wear out also has an enormous footprint from mining for metals and other environmentally destructive parts. Once the trucks wear out not all is recycled and that has a footprint. Vehicles burn oil so if it isn't produced here that means it's imported from countries with barbaric human rights mostly. Any dollar we send to the middle East has a high likelihood of financing people who torture their own and want to destroy our way of life. Reducing the oil sands output will lessen supply and increase world prices as well as deprive us of tax money used to fund services like education and healthcare. I could keep going but I think you see where I stand on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryandir
Good points there. I just hope it doesn't ruin habits and ecosystems as they are building it and hopefully there are never any leaks in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Never say never. Is it possible that there will be leaks? Absolutely. But the constant non stop incremental carbon footprint from other oil transport also impacts. It just does it silently and doesn't sell newspapers. But let's not kid ourselves it's still there. The research has proven that killing the pipeline won't help the environment at all. Opposition is based on emotion and ideology. Ironically those who hate the oil sands all consume it's product and benefit from it's tax revenue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryandir
It is possible but the sensors in the pipeline will shut down the flow an instant a leak is detected to mitigate any damage.
http://www.timminspress.com/2015/02/...lment-says-tsbQuote:
Originally Posted by ryandir
pipes aren't the only thing that spills oil
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbur...uate-1.2967621
this has more pics of this recent spill
I would call that derailment "an inconvenient truth". Interestingly it never really made much of a news story? Do you think if it was a pipeline it would have? Hhhmmm....
Funny how the left often likes to um….obscure... things :)
Bascially for me it comes down to a few things.
1) Oil….Do we need it? Are you prepared to live without. If you answer no to the latter than……Cant have your cake an eat it to
2) Economics, logistics, transport options
3) etc
Start with oil and if you realize we are a long long long long way away from doing without...don't want oil being extracted here in Cda…"Nymbyism"…Not good here, better over seas?
And if your "really", really concerned about what we are doing to the planet. Put your $ where your procreative tools are. Don't have kids.
The more people = More urban sprawl
The more people = More electricity used
The More people = the more oil is needed
The more people = the more greenhouse gases and pollution
Probably do way more to reduce your individual footprint that way than any other...
One other add only because I know how important our streams are to some who are against…oil
Wilmot
http://www.citynews.ca/2014/12/16/ta...ear-newcastle/
Shall we bother bringing up the Lac Megantic disaster? I bet if you polled that town they would be in favor of pipelines.
Terry to me.
there are just no easy answers.
Oil is Oil and we are (who the foil knows) how long from reducing our dependency on it. So lets call spades spades and be ok with putting spades in the ground. All the teeth gnashing and hand wringing…won't change much.
Do I like the idea of a potential spill? No
But tankers do as much or more harm more often and to people.
Rail to…
Economically? Rail vs tankers vs pipelines
It's getting to the point we can't sneeze without segments throwing up barriers and noise.
Heres another thought. With the EU running out of space, water, maybe not now but in the not too distant future guess where they are coming?
Think wind farms are going to handle it?
Also, why is the same people who don't want to put spades in the ground have no problem tearing up huge footprints for wind farms?
And on
And on
And on
I am almost at the point where I'm simply going to ask those if they've gotten snipped and refused to have kids.Want to reduce your footprint today and tomorrow (their kids?)
How much laundry do kids require? Electricity? Oil? garbage and pollution?
My American side of the family are of the opinion that a lot of the decisions by the Obama Democrats will soon come back to haunt them worse than anything Dubya ever even thought about.
I'll admit Trimmer when he first came in.
"Time and place for everything"
I thought he might be good. A statesmen, nice guy, peace maker (some seem to value that over practical get the job done leaders). Smoothe over many things, following..
Agree, I think a time will come when many are going to regret getting bitten hard in the backside.
No offense to your family, but I can't fathom how that would ever happen. The only people I can see subscribing to this line of thinking are the tea party, right wing conservatives (creationists), birther's, and Donald Trump...Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Well RT, I think there are an awful lot of Americans that would disagree with you on that :)
Whether or not things bite them in the backside. Only time will tell but………...
Other than ridiculously increasing the debt and eroding America's standing in the world what exactly has the great Obama done to justify his "great savior" hype? I mean they gave him the Nobel peace prize before he even took office. How has the US made the world a safer place during his administration? Dubya inherited the subprime crisis from the Clinton years. Those contracts matured in Bush's years but were signed during Clinton's partially as a result of his "everybody should own a home" philosophy. Oddly enough I am not a creationist, even believe in pro choice........go figure.
Probably :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Seems none of the Americans I deal with on a daily basis voted for the guy. I am often left wondering who did vote for him, because it sure isn't the guys in my industry.
Last week there was also a derailment in West Virginia or Pennsylvania, I forget the town but it was in the papers and on the news in Pittsburgh.
But hey if they don't want pipelines that's great. We are doing good business making tanks for railcars.
I read some pieces some months ago, with respect to some of his policies, fracking and more.
He's sucking and blowing at the same time. And thats just on Oil and Keystone.
I actually think he is doing us a favor. By stonewalling it, he is forcing our hands. Harper (thankfully he's a smart guy) has been trying to wean Cda off the US some ad going a good job of that. Fine no problem, you had your chance, too bad, so sad.
In time, 5 or 10 years, or 20 years when they come crawling back, we can talk going south but by then (hopefully) well have lines East and West, the trade agreement signed with the EU will be firing on 6 cylinders and well, the ante will be higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
How about the derailment/spill/fire near Gogama recently and two days later a similar derailment/fire/spill in the states someplace?
Gogama is only a two hour drive from me. With a freight rail line less than 1/4 mile from my house and another one cutting right through my hometown, shipping volatile light crude by rail could be a ticking time bomb, given the revelations that have come out of Lac Megantic...
This is a complex issue for sure. A pipeline may or may not be the best solution, but what we are young now with trucking and rail is not working well, either...
Pipelines spill, leak and spew oil FAR more than the proponents would ever admit, even when the stats and reports are shoved right in their faces.
There are a ton of other hot button issues involved in pipelines too, such as essentially stealing lands to host/build them, the environmental impact of their construction (considerable even if no leak/spill ever happens), etc.
There are plenty of reasons people don't care for them.
But, if one's concern is simply the spill angle and the environmental impact of them, well... pipelines are proven to unleash significantly less oil than trucking, rail or shipping transportation methods when there is a failure or a spill.
The pipeline sensors are not at all as robust or as accurate as the Keystone proponents lie to claim they are... but it's always going to be easier and faster to close off a valve once you've found the leak, than it will be to right a massive capsized oiltanker and plug a hole in its hull, etc.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/news/canada-oil-spill/
http://globalnews.ca/news/1699902/al...e-into-muskeg/
Until we don't need oil any longer I believe the pipelines are the best alternative over ship ,rail , or truck. As far as stealing land ? not sure how it works in all jurisdictions but a good friend of mine was paid handsomely for a natural gas pipeline to go through his property in rural Brampton.
There is a new pipeline going in approx. 10 miles north of here, from west to east. It is a 4 ft. dia. pipe. Quite a big excavation job, they are working in sections, crew doing about 5 miles, and another crew working, 5 miles over. I am not sure how many crews there are so I have no idea of how many are employed there. But what I do know, is you will never know there is a pipeline there by next fall. most of the land has been levelled and will be seeded this spring. By June it will be all yellow Canola flowers.
Good read. Another reasons some Americans are nervous is because there is a huge aquifer in the Great Plains that supplies almost all their fresh water - a leak would be a disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddmott
http://pubs.usgs.gov/ha/ha730/ch_d/D-text4.html