Let's not fight ISIS

Now politics aside, the issue I have with this is simple. In a peace keeping mission Canadian soldiers have rules of engagement that basically state that they have to be fired upon before they can fire. In other instances the criteria is much scarier.
In a peace making mission Canadian troops don't have to suck up the first round before using deadly force. Only in situations where there is a stable situation can peace keeping be used without a high risk of losses. I p!$$es me off when politicians are so casual with their words...

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/201...sis-barbarians

Lib-tard.
What would happen with these people in control is the scariest thing I can think of.

Some "get it"
Some "don't"

With respect to rules of engagement for our troops. Spend 5 minutes talking to my neighbor who served in Bosnia and you will likely change your mind if, your soft or akin to various left leaning politicians.

Such a pathetic, gutless, deceived, and blind excuse for a man..................

Here's an opinion, fittingly from a British source.....

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)

Sums it right there R.

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The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)

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I often tell say to people. You can have anything you want in life......At what price? There is always a price.

And there in lies my issue with such 'noble and lofty' ideals. All well and fine to send young men and women into battle as long as they don't shoot first and make us look bad politically.
There is no more dangerous place now than the assymetric battlefield where the enemy can be anyone. It is not a region where peace keeping can be done unless one is willing to sacrifice the lives of our soldiers to appease the passivists.

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Originally Posted by DGearyFTE

And there in lies my issue with such 'noble and lofty' ideals. All well and fine to send young men and women into battle as long as they don't shoot first and make us look bad politically.
There is no more dangerous place now than the assymetric battlefield where the enemy can be anyone. It is not a region where peace keeping can be done unless one is willing to sacrifice the lives of our soldiers to appease the passivists.

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The article is about comments from a Liberal candidate. Why is anyone surprised? Honestly,I don't know how some people can even function,they're so ridiculous.

I wonder how he would feel with an AK pointed at his face, and the rules say..........or having to stand and watch something horrific unfold in front of him.

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Originally Posted by JBen

I wonder how he would feel with an AK pointed at his face, and the rules say..........or having to stand and watch something horrific unfold in front of him.

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Such as Canadian troops in Rwanda in the early 90s. They were forced by UN rules to stand by as thousands of Tutsi were slaughtered by Hutu. Romeo Dellaire is still suffering PTSD from having to bear witness the Rwandan Genocide.
Belgian 2nd Commando had 10 of their members tortured and killed. They were there as peace keepers...

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Originally Posted by JBen

I wonder how he would feel with an AK pointed at his face, and the rules say..........or having to stand and watch something horrific unfold in front of him.

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Good point. I guess you haven't heard of the shooting at Mickey Ds(armed guard killed 2)Danforth and near Coxwell I think.
Apparently a witness who had periodically dined on McDs until it rotted his brain SAID... I'll paraphrase "there I was at the cash reg. paying for my food when 3 ft to the right of me 3 dudes jump the security guard. Two holding him from behind and the other punching him.
Dude ends up shooting/killing 2. I'm so glad I'm alive, people think about how lucky you are....
Guy kills the two dudes who meant him no death....bet he just gets away with a slap on the wrist."

Yep a combo (no pun) of MickeyDs food and obviously being a product of Academia or other form of esteemed learning.
Why(you were 3 ft away)would you allow another to be brutally beaten, 3 on 1?
Why does your brain(or obvious lack of grey matter) function like that? You know. 3 on 1 and the attacked guard kills them and yet you see HIM as being at fault.

Moronto.........

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Originally Posted by DGearyFTE

Such as Canadian troops in Rwanda in the early 90s. They were forced by UN rules to stand by as thousands of Tutsi were slaughtered by Hutu. Romeo Dellaire is still suffering PTSD from having to bear witness the Rwandan Genocide.
Belgium 2nd Commando had 10 of their members tortured and killed. They were there as peace keepers...

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That's why no Canadian troops have since been deployed unless we've had full command and control by our own or NATO Officers in-theater. The UN is a joke,run by a collection of tyrants and misfits. Left wing bureaucrats are absolutely incapable of making tough decisions in a timely manner. They do very little besides the usual hand-wringing and dithering,delaying vital decisions until it's too late to matter and the damage is done as in Rwanda. Thank God we have a decisive,no-nonsense government in Ottawa. I can just imagine the consequences if someone like Mulcair or Trudeau had been in power in WRT ISIS/ISIL.

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Originally Posted by skypilot

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)

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The same John Stuart Mill that was an economist, philosopher and politician who never once inconvenienced himself to better the world around him? Instead manipulating others to sacrifice themselves for his betterment?

I get what you're trying to portray with that quote... but i find it immensely amusing you're quoting a LIBERAL politician, whose philosophical leanings were extremely contradictory to the argument you're holding.

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Originally Posted by DGearyFTE

And there in lies my issue with such 'noble and lofty' ideals. All well and fine to send young men and women into battle as long as they don't shoot first and make us look bad politically.
There is no more dangerous place now than the assymetric battlefield where the enemy can be anyone. It is not a region where peace keeping can be done unless one is willing to sacrifice the lives of our soldiers to appease the passivists.

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When you send someone to do a job, you don't handcuff them first. You give them the responsibility authority to do the job as quickly, cost effectively and safely as possible. Doesn't matter what the job is. Digging ditches, installing computers or cleaning up ISIL.

Maybe there's a few of us back home here that 'feel a bit better' knowing that our boys only engaged because they were fired on. But at what cost. Why do these people assume that their is no cost in waiting for that first shot?

I travel quit a bit for work - and if my boss put a stupid constraint like that on me, I tell him to go do it himself. Too bad our military doesn't have that option.

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

The same John Stuart Mill that was an economist, philosopher and politician who never once inconvenienced himself to better the world around him? Instead manipulating others to sacrifice themselves for his betterment?

I get what you're trying to portray with that quote... but i find it immensely amusing you're quoting a LIBERAL politician, whose philosophical leanings were extremely contradictory to the argument you're holding.

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It was more for the benefit to your country/countrymen of British heritage. You know like quoting a familiar source to the receiver so that they take it as believable reference. But I do believe you are grasping the underlying jab.

Glad you are amused.

First thing is this boy's......Why don't you go to a political forum and post this? This is a forum for OUTDOORS and HUNTING not inflammatory subjects such as this to be brought forward. That being said, (my son serves) I understand the frustrations(I have plenty of military friends) orders are as they are and shall not be ignored without penalty. All I know is that if my son should come into a situation where he must turn a blind eye as my friends did, then I hope he has the strength to deal with the mental pain and suffering it inflicts on him. If he comes under fire then I can only hope he survives and that he will know that he did what was needed at the time. Last thing I say on this is pretty damned simple. I love and support our forces for all they do on our behalves and for those that cannot do it for themselves. May every last son and daughter, brother, father and mother come home to there families safe and sound to warm and welcoming arms. Savage 308

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

That's why no Canadian troops have since been deployed unless we've had full command and control by our own or NATO Officers in-theater. The UN is a joke,run by a collection of tyrants and misfits. Left wing bureaucrats are absolutely incapable of making tough decisions in a timely manner. They do very little besides the usual hand-wringing and dithering,delaying vital decisions until it's too late to matter and the damage is done as in Rwanda. Thank God we have a decisive,no-nonsense government in Ottawa. I can just imagine the consequences if someone like Mulcair or Trudeau had been in power in WRT ISIS/ISIL.

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5 minutes with my neighbor who served in Bosnia..........
Had AKs in his face, had to watch.... many things, more I might say........

Ours is not to wonder why, ours is but...
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/28/wo...ian-hands.html

Politicians like this guy.......

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Originally Posted by Savage308

First thing is this boy's......Why don't you go to a political forum and post this? This is a forum for OUTDOORS and HUNTING not inflammatory subjects such as this to be brought forward.

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If you look to the right side column,you'll see this is posted in the "Off Topic" section. It's here for this purpose. When you see your boy,tell him I said Thanks for his service and God Bless.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

If you look to the right side column,you'll see this is posted in the "Off Topic" section. It's here for this purpose. When you see your boy,tell him I said Thanks for his service and God Bless.

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X2 THANKS to all service people

War is politics. Of course Canadian soldiers would be sent into these fracases with engagement orders. They're not there to fight for anything that directly impacts Canadians. They're there to help some politicians our politicians want to be friends with, and to pizz off other politicians our politicians want to pizz off.

If you're there only to guard food & aid delivery convoys... that's what you do. If you're there to be part of a covert action team that's assassinating dozens of warlords... that's what you do.

It's BS to act like Canadians aren't ever given appropriate rules of engagement for different missions. The CAFs have been involved in numerous deployments from 1990 on, with a myriad of different actions and results. When you operate in other countries, and you're not an invading or controlling force... you play by the rules whoever invited you lays out.

Well M, some get it, some don't.

There are those who think like this guy.

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Canada’s funding it’s (sic) war in ISIS and terror is going to increase conflicts abroad and at home. We need to return to the days when we were respected unpartisan (sic) ‘Peace keepers’ and active members in the UN,” reads Liberal Candidate Cam Stewart’s Facebook post

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Stewart appears to suggest Canada’s motives for joining the coalition — again: rape, ethnic cleansing, slavery, beheadings and mass executions — lack credibility, and he goes on to say Canada should be limited to “logistical, training, and peacekeeping roles

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Lets not also forget attacks in foreign countries and open declarations to incite "terror" here and other places. See unlike Bosnia or Rwanda.....who simply wanted to commit atrocities within their own backyards....

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But these are Justin Trudeau’s Liberals, and even a candidate with foot-in-mouth disease like Stewart can easily get away with bad-mouthing Canada’s role against ISIS.
Trudeau himself has done the same, suggesting coalition air strikes against ISIS are just macho posturing by Harper and other leaders, and going on to say Canada should not be on the front lines of the fight, and instead keep to roles like humanitarian aid, refugee support and medical help.

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There are those who would prefer to remain safe here at home and not anger the bee's nest.....

There are those who think its the "right time/cause " to pick sides' and lets not cuckhold those who put it on the line.

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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)

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Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
Is another one.

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Originally Posted by JBen

I often tell say to people. You can have anything you want in life......At what price? There is always a price.

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the blood of patriot who believes in freedom. I heard too many stories from old WWII Polish soldiers, heard the extermination and I've been to Oswiecim aka "Auschwitz"; a somber reality that evil will and does come back not to a single specific area but anywhere where it can grow. if we don't keep it in check. it will come here, if we let it.

at least, if ISL is at my doorstep. I know on what side I'll be fighting for. I stand by these words; "For your Freedom and Ours" unofficial Polish motto.

I agree , we shouldn't fight them .. we should annihilate them.