Trying to get this straight?

So I'm just trying to get this all right here, maybe I'm misinterpreting things.

This government is presently under 3 different OPP investigations. One of which is for clandestinely hiring an outsider to come in after hours and destroy archived evidence of a coverup. This coverup was to hide the fact they wasted/stole $billions to buy off some ridings. Now the Chief Electoral Officer has once again found the Liberals have acted illegally in trying to bribe/coerce a candidate in the Sudbury BUYelection. This Chief electoral officer ( who does this type of thing for a living) felt the evidence was strong enough to refer the case to the Attorney General. The OPP have also ( after being shamed/embarrassed for ignoring taped evidence originally) decided the evidence deserved further investigation.
Now interestingly the OPP is also under police investigation by the RCMP for involvement in the last election where they supported the Wynne Liberals. So, the RCMP is investigating the OPP who are investigating the LIberals for electoral fraud and illegal activities? Can we now be confident that this passed election is credible and legitimate? Do we need an inquiry? Just kidding, there was an inquiry already and the majority Liberals plucked all the feathers off that duck and it was a waste of tax dollars. I have no faith whatsoever that the RCMP will do anything damaging to fellow police forces, brotherhood and all that thing. The RCMP is full of scandal and is a well documented old boys club with the self entitlement mentality that comes with that. So the way I see it we are basically screwed right?

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Originally Posted by terrym

So the way I see it we are basically screwed right?

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Yes.

Basically.

Yup.

Completely above the law.

Proper F$#@ed

I have read that those that sow the Wynne will reap the whirlwynne........

Welcome to the beginning of harvest season.......

So it's not just me? :scream:

It's VERY IMPORTANT to recognize and note,here,that this investigation is aimed at the OPP "Association"(union)leadership,not at the OPP as a police service. It's no different than a corruption investigation against crooked union leaders of the Teamsters,Steel Workers or Unifor.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It's VERY IMPORTANT to recognize and note,here,that this investigation is aimed at the OPP "Association"(union)leadership,not at the OPP as a police service. It's no different than a corruption investigation against crooked union leaders of the Teamsters,Steel Workers or Unifor.

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Tomato/TOMAHTOE. Yes it is the union but who are members of the union? The people who are near untouchable and have the power to destroy your life. Wynne negotiates with the union.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Tomato/TOMAHTOE. Yes it is the union but who are members of the union? The people who are near untouchable and have the power to destroy your life. Wynne negotiates with the union.

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We can't lump this altogether and blame rank and file LEO's any more than we can blame all autoworkers for union leadership decisions over which they have ZERO control as to what goes on in the "ivory towers". Other than elect local rep's,average Constables have no control over what the leadership does as policy. Most of the association leadership were never LEO's. Walsh is a lawyer and politician (Liberal MPP for Barrie). I'm not sure about the others,but,you get my drift.

I do. And it would be unreasonable to assume all OPP union members are Liberal supporters but they elect and pay these union leaders so are answerable for the actions and decisions made on their behalf.

I still haven't read that this current investigation into the OPP by the Mounties is related to alleged illegal acts during the election. Is there a source that explains the genesis for this?

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Originally Posted by DGearyFTE

I still haven't read that this current investigation into the OPP by the Mounties is related to alleged illegal acts during the election. Is there a source that explains the genesis for this?

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I think it relates to the OPP union getting involved in the campaign, and the legality of that. The Liberal party's actions can't be blamed on anybody but themselves.

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Originally Posted by terrym

I think it relates to the OPP union getting involved in the campaign, and the legality of that. The Liberal party's actions can't be blamed on anybody but themselves.

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I too have not read one word about this investigation having anything to do with the election... If you have reliable information of that fact, let's hear it !

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Originally Posted by terrym

I do. And it would be unreasonable to assume all OPP union members are Liberal supporters but they elect and pay these union leaders so are answerable for the actions and decisions made on their behalf.

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So, the guy on the line at GM should be held accountable for their union bosses actions ......give your head a shake ! Given your rationale, we all should be answerable for the Liberal's actions ???? I think not !

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Originally Posted by terrym

So the way I see it we are basically screwed right?

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Uh... yep, but atleast the Liberals aren't in power Nationally. Just looking at my taxes and thinking of the carbon taxes and tax cut rollbacks Justin Trudeau wants.... forget screw.... think oil drill into your wallet.


Just think of the friends of CBC attack ads, the NDP and Liberals wanting to increase the CBC funding (already at $90,000,000 per MONTH now), Unions talking about anyone but Harper....

Public trust is the be all and end all. Some understand why that is, some don't.

Do happen to mostly agree with Rick and Trimmer. And where I differ relates to "solidarity", supporting the Union, etc. While it would be utterly unrealistic to assume all "OPP" vote (either for the representatives, the heads, the contracts, the elections). Some/many do.

However do recall many threads questioning and or pointing out.
1) Handling, and speed of the gas plant investigation. They dragged their heels.
2) Getting involved in the election and the very nice raises.
3) Handling and apparent disinterest in the Sudbury by-election and contradictory statements, once the tapes went public.

And do recall some the grief some have taken, when things were questioned, pointed out or when they were accused and not just about this. Be it them (the Liberals), be it Unions, be it.....

No matter what one thinks, it "stinks".

Hopefully, people can respect others opinions, if not agree with them.

The largest and likely the worst misconception is the fact that rank and file union members individually vote for the Union executive leadership. Nothing can be further from actuality. Local members vote for local stewards/committeeperson(s) and local executives,only. Depending on the size of the "local",a certain number of delegates are elected to attend a Union convention. Those delegates are the only people that get a vote for executive officers. This is usually where the votes are "stacked" in favor of a current Union regime. How do you think Buzz Hargrove "won" all those CAW elections?

Yep.

But at the end of the day, the members do have some "say". Not so very different than criticisms of those who live in the GTA and have elected a sea of red for years. ;)

National post has a blurb on what the investigation is into (take it with a grain of salt).

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However, CTV Barrie was reporting that sources said the investigation relates to allegations of theft, fraud, criminal breach of trust, laundering proceeds of crime and fraudulent concealment.

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In plain English.
Racketeering.

I heard that Wynne's son in law is affiliated with the opp union. ? Can anyone here confirm this as I cant find anything.

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Originally Posted by mosquito

Uh... yep, but atleast the Liberals aren't in power Nationally. .

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That has about a 50/50 chance of happening at this point based on polling. And with the Duffy/Walin court cases happening before the vote that could sink Harper. So you could have Wynne in the Province and Trudeau in Ottawa.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

I heard that Wynne's son in law is affiliated with the opp union. ? Can anyone here confirm this as I cant find anything.

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I think this may be what you were thinking of. It's her brother in law that got a gravy appointment.
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/premier-s-...ario-1.1777032

Another interesting tidbit. Turns out that Karl Walsh who is the CAO of the police union and one of 3 under investigation was a Liberal candidate in the last election. My, my, my, our police force and the Liberals are tight. Makes you wonder who is scratching who.........

http://www.simcoe.com/news-story/202...walsh-liberal/

That must of been it Terry.

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Originally Posted by terrym

That has about a 50/50 chance of happening at this point based on polling. And with the Duffy/Walin court cases happening before the vote that could sink Harper. So you could have Wynne in the Province and Trudeau in Ottawa.

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OMG the country would go into a major recession ! We would be doomed ! I would consider immigrating to another country if that were to happen.

Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota... any border state will be benefiting from a Federal Liberal gov't, just look at what is happening in Ontario,

Why a Leamington greenhouse is investing $200M in Ohio
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/why-a-leamington-greenhouse-is-investing-200m-in-ohio-1.2917918
Leamington Mayor John Paterson said. “The enticements we’ve heard about, we can’t legally do at the municipal level and the provincial government seems reluctant to do.”
...
Rather than deal with and pay rising electricity costs in Ontario,
...
“It is definitely a loss and a significant loss to Leamington, Ontario and Canada.”



Wise spending isn't a Liberal thing.just using a simple income tax calculator (yeah I know... don't get started but we can assume the 200,000,000 eventually ends up as someones income)

2014 Provincial tax : $ 26,305,972


So perhaps 1/2 that is the real loss, ignoring the additional impact but that is still over $13 million loss PER year

mama wynne knows best

How much was the raise given to the OPP. in their last contract?

What I find funny, is that I've queried my friends on Fb to see who may have actually given them the Majority, and to simply explain how they did. I did quantify it, by saying that anyone who cited the fear mongering "anyone but Hudak" would be out and out called stupid.

Seems like most who voted liberal, did so because of the fear of Hudak. Now, you'll hardly find anyone even willing to admit they did.

So here is the real problem as I see it. The PC party in Ontario has effectively shot itself in the foot in the past two elections. Tory ( who people liked), did it with that absolutely stupid "faith based schools" funding idea. Hudak did it by scaring the public sector with actually telling the truth. If he had kept his mouth shut, and started to make cuts in the PS we would still be better off.

I sincerely hope, that by the next election ( here's hoping that all the criminal stuff actually sticks, and they're forced to, due to no -confidence), that the PCs find a leadership candidate who A: The people will like and B: Will be a little less outspoken about some of the tough times ahead. Mike Harris did that when he took power in the 1990s.

Now, back on point......Wynne would never lie, she's a stand up guy.....

SOmeone bred with her????.....shivers.....

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

I heard that Wynne's son in law is affiliated with the opp union. ? Can anyone here confirm this as I cant find anything.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

What I find funny, is that I've queried my friends on Fb to see who may have actually given them the Majority, and to simply explain how they did. I did quantify it, by saying that anyone who cited the fear mongering "anyone but Hudak" would be out and out called stupid.

Seems like most who voted liberal, did so because of the fear of Hudak. Now, you'll hardly find anyone even willing to admit they did.

So here is the real problem as I see it. The PC party in Ontario has effectively shot itself in the foot in the past two elections. Tory ( who people liked), did it with that absolutely stupid "faith based schools" funding idea. Hudak did it by scaring the public sector with actually telling the truth. If he had kept his mouth shut, and started to make cuts in the PS we would still be better off.

I sincerely hope, that by the next election ( here's hoping that all the criminal stuff actually sticks, and they're forced to, due to no -confidence), that the PCs find a leadership candidate who A: The people will like and B: Will be a little less outspoken about some of the tough times ahead. Mike Harris did that when he took power in the 1990s.

Now, back on point......Wynne would never lie, she's a stand up guy.....

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I expect that Patrick Brown will emerge as the new PC leader. Whether or not he is capable of selling the PCs to Ontarian remains to be seen. But in the near term it's irrelevant, there is still 3 1/2 yrs til the next election.
In the here and now we are left with this mess that will simply drag on. I suspect that the members of this forum are a good cross-section and the general thought, likely share by most, is that this must be a dream. No single party could be that corrupt. I can hear it now... "Not in Canada, we don't have politicians that lie, cheat or collude in illegal activities!"
Apparently there needs to be a reality check since the evidence is piling high to indicate just that. This government is rife with backdoor deals and expenditures that target staying in power vs what the province needs.

That unfortunately is the nature of the beast in politics. Once elected they "all" regardless of party will take care of themselves and friends. Doesn't mean we as voters should give them a pass though. When the evidence is overwhelming of corruption and incompetence it is our duty to kick them to curb and sit in the corner. Wynne and her bunch should have been decimated in the last election based on scandals and incompetence. They were able to buy off the election with scandals like the gas plants and PS union financing. Money is and always will be the deciding factor in most elections and the PS unions have tons of it and present legislation affords them loop holes like the working families coalition to circumvent electoral spending laws. Hudak was an idiot and couldn't win an election in a one man race. But that is only because he was honest in what he intended to do. Honesty is no longer how to win elections. One has to lie, tell the idiots all is well and they will vote you in. If you get a majority then you get to actually implement what you really believe in. Liberals figured this out a long time ago and Conservatives will never return to power until they start campaigning like liberals and lie.

It's clear the people of Ontario like to be lied to. Very sad if a party looses based on telling the truth and need to stoop to the lowest ethical standards in order to win. I think it will get even worse if the Liberals keep the current power they have or gain more power. I do not think the Conservatives will stoop that low and will continue to be an example to the minority. I still think to this day the last election win for the Liberals was rigged because i know very few Liberal voters in my circle.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

It's clear the people of Ontario like to be lied to. Very sad if a party looses based on telling the truth and need to stoop to the lowest ethical standards in order to win. I think it will get even worse if the Liberals keep the current power they have or gain more power. I do not think the Conservatives will stoop that low and will continue to be an example to the minority. I still think to this day the last election win for the Liberals was rigged because i know very few Liberal voters in my circle.

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Who in their right mind would admit voting for this corrupt bunch !

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

It's clear the people of Ontario like to be lied to. Very sad if a party looses based on telling the truth and need to stoop to the lowest ethical standards in order to win. I think it will get even worse if the Liberals keep the current power they have or gain more power. I do not think the Conservatives will stoop that low and will continue to be an example to the minority. I still think to this day the last election win for the Liberals was rigged because i know very few Liberal voters in my circle.

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I see that you're from Sarnia where the Liberal base is fairly significant,but,not overwhelming. If you look at Toronto,you'll see that voters LOVE the Liberals. They think Kathleen Wynne walks on water and Justin Trudeau is the second coming of Christ. LOL

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Who in their right mind would admit voting for this corrupt bunch !

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An OPP officer whose union told him Hudak would take his pension.

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Originally Posted by Angus

An OPP officer whose union told him Hudak would take his pension.

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None of the guys I know will admit voting Liberal....I guess I should quit calling them "Kathleen's Kids".... Lol

Funny (not so funny) thing is thats the hard truth Rick.

No-one is willing to admit they voted for them, that speaks volumes. Anytime I'm in social circles and any of the current stink bombs ( think about that in the context that theres so many…old ones aren't necessarily forgotten, theres just too many "current") at work, where historically its more Liberal than con (heck can't name names but Paul Martin used to come into the office) but most are just as "disgusted" and voted con...virtually anywhere. Almost everyone voices their disgust. You can usually tell the Lib voters by their silence though.

Its very telling, that so few anywhere……..and its not just here.

Yellow Dog. With respect to the GTA/Ottawa and Union backers, Hudak and the cons

I'll leave this quote.

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It's discouraging to think so many are shocked by honesty, and so few by deceit

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No single party could be that corrupt. I can hear it now... "Not in Canada, we don't have politicians that lie, cheat or collude in illegal activities!"
Apparently there needs to be a reality check since the evidence is piling high to indicate just that. This government is rife with backdoor deals and expenditures that target staying in power vs what the province needs

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:)

DGeary.
I dont recall if you were here and active 4-6years ago (say around 2008-2010). There have been some legendary threads.

I took a lot of heat was branded everything from a PS hater to having Pension envy due to some commentary on the Unions and the growth in PS (relative to private), vote buying (do anything/say anything/at any cost), the ways they (unions) weigh and skew numbers, their antics around by-elections (Oddmott used to think I was nuts and more than once) and why this or that..And soooooo much more.

Im still pretty sure Ms Wynne "winning" was no fair contest and it was a fix from the get go (the weekend he stepped down) and they had 48hours (Fri when the lid was kicked off the can) to the Mon when McG stepped….to figure out "holy crap its going to hit the fan, we need damage control and then make sure, it goes no further……and put their plan in place. Nothing, is above this party. They will say anything, do anything, at any cost to win. See Pupatello leading and expected to win the convention…and then the rug being pulled and few knowing "what happened".

Who better to ensure things remain buried and continue…..than

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

None of the guys I know will admit voting Liberal....I guess I should quit calling them "Kathleen's Kids".... Lol

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You could have knocked me over with a feather after he admitted it. Totally convinced that reducing his pension was a Conservative goal. I was using single malt truth serum on him though !

This should about sum this government up...

I don't think we are responsible for the actions of our elected officials, nor should the membership of any union be held accountable for it's leaders and their illegal activities. What elected people do, is done often without approval from us underlings, and they alone are accountable (or should be) for any illegal activities. The Liberals committed multiple offenses that you or I would be jailed, or at least heavily fined for; but I don't think those that elected them can be held accountable? (I didn't vote Liberal btw) Whomever we elect takes it upon themselves to make decisions and take actions without consenting us. I think the same applies to Union/Professional Associations. Once voted in, we lose all control of what they will/may do. We have no recourse until next election, and the process is repeated ad infinitum, with us paying for the mistakes of our elected officials. I think it is a worldwide epidemic and will get worse before it gets better. I try to do the best I can today, and what others do is beyond me. Like water off a duck's back now! jmo

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I don't think we are responsible for the actions of our elected officials, nor should the membership of any union be held accountable for it's leaders and their illegal activities. What elected people do, is done often without approval from us underlings,

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"You get the government you deserve"
"If you don't vote, you have no right"
"Civil responsibility" and "civic duty"
"turning a cheek, a blind eye"
"enabling"
"Condoning"
"evil triumphs when good men do nothing"
"So many more"

Why have politicions regardless of party, level seemingly become more and more "uncaring", "unscrupulous" lie more and more (because we let them get away with it).

If we don't hold them accountable, who will? It's on us, and only us.