The chickens are coming home to roost

Too funny. The irony of having the teachers losing jobs is priceless. These are probably the biggest supporters of Wynne. She was a trustee ( who couldn't balance a budget ), then Minister of Ed and now Premier. They scrubbed each others backs to attain power and now the ones who got her into power are being laid off by budget cuts. They will no doubt counter and spin it by saying it will be through attrition but that is exactly what Hudak proposed and was portrayed as Satan himself. Ahh it's going to be a long 3 more years.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/12...teaching--jobs

While I think the teacher unions need to be stood up to and costs gotten back in line to what is sustainable, as a person who last year faced numerous months out of work in their field (I took odds jobs to get by as well as EI when I couldn't find work), I can't find happiness when someone loses their job.

I don't wish unemployment on people either and in fact my daughter is in her first year of a Bach of ed program so you could say I have a vested interest ( $20k/yr tuition & res expenses) in the profession but I also realize this group are the single biggest supporters, campaigners and financiers of Wynne. The cost of education rises as enrollment declines. Of course there has to be cuts. She is doing exactly what Hudak campaigned on and he was demonized.

Health care is suffering too. CHEO is laying off staff as well.

Hudak was honest, too honest and what did he get??

Sometimes it is better to remain silent and seem like a fool than to speak up an known as one!

Dick

not completly tied to the liberals... they are projecting 2000 less kids next year, and faceing a large deficet... not much different then if GM was predicting selling 2000 less vehicles, and faceing a big loss, they will lay off employess... not everything is a liberal scam... when i went to highschool there were over 1200 kids in my school, now there is 450... wouldnt be cost effective to have the same amount of teachers there...

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Originally Posted by terrym

Too funny. The irony of having the teachers losing jobs is priceless. These are probably the biggest supporters of Wynne. She was a trustee ( who couldn't balance a budget ), then Minister of Ed and now Premier. They scrubbed each others backs to attain power and now the ones who got her into power are being laid off by budget cuts. They will no doubt counter and spin it by saying it will be through attrition but that is exactly what Hudak proposed and was portrayed as Satan himself. Ahh it's going to be a long 3 more years.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/12...teaching--jobs

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Irony is right! Wait until the PS unions memberships start to drop like stone from simple retirement attrition and they aren't replaced. That loss of 10K jobs will look like a cake walk compared to the actuality of contract lapses and retirements. The frustrating part for me is that all Hudak's strategists had to do was keep their mouths shut in the first place and just let it happen,but,n-o-o-o.they had to make it an election issue,literally handing the election to the Unions on a silver platter. That was just NUTS!

If the chickens had come home to roost there would at be some way to feed people.
A better explanation is the the chickens have left, and the truck comes next week to take the coop.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Irony is right! Wait until the PS unions memberships start to drop like stone from simple retirement attrition and they aren't replaced. That loss of 100K jobs will look like a cake walk compared to the actuality of contract lapses and retirements. The frustrating part for me is that all Hudak's strategists had to do was keep their mouths shut in the first place and just let it happen,but,n-o-o-o.they had to make it an election issue,literally handing the election to the Unions on a silver platter. That was just NUTS!

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Absolutely. "The first thing we are going to do is eliminate 10 000 jobs." :rolleyes:

On "hudak"
I still don't know if he/they really had any choice. Cmon, think about the left, the spins, the lies, the XYZ. They "tried normal politics in 2011" and despite everything, McGuinty still won. Had Hudak kept his "yap shut" how would Ms Wynne and Unions have played it?

The same way they have had ITD and many Cdns convinced Harper is an evil man bent on destroying Canada. Fear mongering, the secret agenda the ghost of Mike Harris and deep cuts….She used that in Walkerton re-writing history…she still uses it today.


If he's tight lipped about cuts anyone with some rational thought knows needs to happen.he comes across as having a secret agenda for something "most" know needs to happen. The left would have buried him and played on the fears just as much.
Damned if he does
Damned if doesn't

On topic
I do feel for the people that pay the price, but really, they only "have them selves to blame" and their Union to blame..
~The growth over thevyears (hiring and cost) while things are shrinking
~student enrollment has been going down for years
~Automatic pay raises for additional qualification. Gee wish I got a raise for the courses Im forced to take
~The laddered system for time in vs pay for performance

Ontarios growth trend is going down. blah blah. All the other issues debated to death and back. Be it the all the in cost (wages/benefits) the state of the Prov (and who has propped them up) etc, etc.

That said, Im not sure how large the TDSB is but I don't think 250 is large. If theres 2,500 teachers thats a 10% hair cut.

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The school board met Wednesday evening to approve its approximately $3-billion budget for the next year and address a $16.5-million projected deficit..

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Its not rocket science.

Now I wonder if all "teachers" took a 1% to 3% haircut in salary if that might save 20 million. Or if the pensions….Or if, Or fi

Maybe no one or fewer would be getting laid off.

At the end of the day, none of us really know what/where.
But yep, as many of us here "warned" going back 4-6 years. Be careful what you wish for.
If things continue Mike Harris might look like a saint.

Hydro One
This
Others whispered about
Healthcare
Drs are furious despite being one of the few to willingly take pay freeze the past 4-5 years.
More

and all the new….um….revenue tools.

/shrug

again though, still not sure why libs are getting heat on this one?????? this has bin happening long before the libs took over a majority government... just nows it happening in toronto, so the whole world needs to stop...

up here the near north district school board, has bin cutting back for years, theyve bin closeing and almagamating schools.. most the the middle schools (grades 7 and 8) have bin moved into high schools, so almost all of our high schools now are from grades 7-12), and they have bin closeing down 2 schools, and moving them into the empty buildings that were left vacant from the middle schools... in mattawa they are even talking about only haveing one school there, JK-12. staff gets laid off when they do these closeures... its business really, schools get their funding based on number of students, so lets say you have 2 schools that have 1000 kids in each, and the board gets $1million (figuritive number, costs alot more) to run the the schools. (salaries, maintenance, hydro etc.) well couple years down the road, enrolment drops to 500 in each school, so the board now gets half the funding, but still has all the costs of running the schools, so naturally they are gonna close 1 school, have all the kids in 1 school, which will also mean less staff...

for the record, im not defending liberals...

Because Steve, had they done a better job managing things to begin with….If they weren't beggars begging for cash and raiding our pockets for every $ they can squeeze .If they hadn't gone nuts from say 2004 to 2010 binge hiring, and handing out raises willy nilly and much more.

The bullseye belongs squarely on the Unions and Liberal party and no-one else.

For just 1 simple example….actually 2.
Reforming Pensions has been on the table for years.
/crickets
Hudak mentioned it and despite Ms Wynne doing it (just dragging her heels)...

Attrition.
Its a little late to allow attrition to do it's thing. They should have started some time ago, so that say over 3-4 years……...

Theres good management and brutal

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Originally Posted by JBen

Now I wonder if all "teachers" took a 1% to 3% haircut in salary if that might save 20 million. Or if the pensions….Or if, Or fi

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not even so much the teachers, school boards are far too top heavy... too many cheifs not enough indians... go take a drive past a school board office... if you only knew the the catered suppers and meetings that go on in these places you would be sick...

Nobody is saying it isn't needed or strictly because of the Liberals. What we are saying is that the Conservatives were honest and said they would do exactly what the Liberals are doing now. They were called maniacs bent on destroying Ontario. Wynne campaigned with teacher funding and said she would balance the budget without anybody losing their jobs. You would think this group who like to look down on us mouth breathers would have been smart enough to add 2 and 2. The fact that they couldn't should concern anybody with children in the system.

Agree steve, thats why I quoted it
:)

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Originally Posted by JBen

Because Steve, had they done a better job managing things to begin with….If they weren't beggars begging for cash and raiding our pockets.If they hadn't gone nuts from say 2004 to 2010 binge hiring, and handing out raises willy nilly and much more.

The bullseye belongs squarely on the Unions and Liberal party and no-one else

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i work for a school board (not teaching or management... god help the person that calls me one of either lol) i wish i recieved those willy nilly raises you speak of... we havent seen a raise since 2008

believe me i dont agrea with the union either, they are trying to rile us up with strike talks, i flat out told our president, if we go on strike, you wont see me walking the picket line or back working here...

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Originally Posted by fishy steve

not even so much the teachers, school boards are far too top heavy... too many cheifs not enough indians... go take a drive past a school board office... if you only knew the the catered suppers and meetings that go on in these places you would be sick...

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My wife used to be pretty involved with the school boards and yes I have been inside some of these board Taj MaHals. You are correct it isn't entirely the teachers at fault. The entire system needs to be reinvented. There is duplication of tasks all over Ontario and too many boards. The efficiencies and synergies are ignored mostly to appease unions. But hey, the Teachers Union has an enormous financial presence and consider campaign funding no different than any investment they make in the retirement portfolio. They expect a return on their investment and Wynne is on the hook for $ millions. The first thing she did when taking office was re open signed contracts and give them raises. She isn't totally stupid and knows exactly who she answers to.

still comes down to enrolment though... if the kids arent there, then the funding isnt there... heres a article from the local paper, about how 200 extra students helped nndsb's financial situation... only have around a $400K deficet this year... (probably what they spent on catering ;) )

http://www.nugget.ca/2015/03/12/defi...dicted---nndsb

"School board trustees will be spending the next several weeks in budget meetings and workshops to whittle down the deficit."

all of which will be catered

See the "other" thread Steve. Over the years starting say around 2007, I have been branded everything from a PS hater to this and that. Many seem to forget I have teachers, EAs (including special needs) in my immediate family (nieces/aunts). I have LEO/EMS/AF (most the men, from father to uncles and now cousins and god father) in my immediate family. My entire family for all intents and purposes is or was PS.

Most of them, are caught in the middle, no-mans land in the direct line of fire from both sides.
Some few originally were very much its "just about me". Almost all today see things for what they are.

That said.
Since 2010 and after they released the Drummond report in 2011 (nicely timed for release just after the election where they sold cow patties about the true state of things, things I'd ringing alarm bells about, and Werner, Terry, and a few others for a couple years, and many (the public) gobbled it (the cow patties) up rather than looking around and seeing with their eyes) and McGuinty famously promised to hold the line. Then got into a fight with "teachers" that came very close to costing him the win (hence the gas plants panic and 1.2 billion to try and save 5 seats just weeks before V-DAY (vote day)……….

8 of 10 contracts that have come up, have received raises.


I get it, what it means/must be like and know its not all, everyone, every working stiff (just look at the MNR for one obvious example)…..

But if they hadn't blown the wad to begin with, with lucrative raises, mad hiring binges, just look at the insane growth (not the actual numbers) in the Sunshine List, and other things predating both the meltdown in 2008 and during the worst economic crises since 1929, and then blowing their brains out on top of the wad, making things worse. The needs to claw back, clamp down, in cases as usual make other people pay the prices…….

See Bob Rae and the 1990s and what happened when he blew the wad, showered the Unions with love. Then…….

Histroy is repeating itself and this time, it's worse (to begin with)

The whole school board negotiating with teachers thing is a waste of time and money. Remove that step as in the end its the Ministry of Education that sets the bar and budgets. In fact they could likely eliminate half the school boards and the attached operating and legacy costs involved and the students wouldn't be affected negatively. Funding and curriculum is Provincially controlled, the trustee and board system is largely redundant now.

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Originally Posted by terrym

The whole school board negotiating with teachers thing is a waste of time and money. Remove that step as in the end its the Ministry of Education that sets the bar and budgets. In fact they could likely eliminate half the school boards and the attached operating and legacy costs involved and the students wouldn't be affected negatively. Funding and curriculum is Provincially controlled, the trustee and board system is largely redundant now.

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Agree with you on that. In reality the teachers (all school employees) work for the province and the salaries should be negotiated province wide and should be adjusted by region (some with lower cost of living, some with remote location pay, etc).

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Agree with you on that. In reality the teachers (all school employees) work for the province and the salaries should be negotiated province wide and should be adjusted by region (some with lower cost of living, some with remote location pay, etc).

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That's right. The reality is the person living in Sturgeon Falls would have a very different cost of living vs a person living in Toronto but would be paid the same. Private industry already factors this in. Salaries downtown Toronto are always higher than rural ones.

I also feel that having public and Catholic boards is duplication. By all means retain the curriculum but other than that the attached costs of running a complete seperate system is money we can't afford. They operate schools at half capacity in many areas. Time to utilize the assets we have more effeciently.