Things will get ugly if Wynnebag fails to pay her debts as her minions may me getting restless.
http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/e...ton-union.html
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Things will get ugly if Wynnebag fails to pay her debts as her minions may me getting restless.
http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/e...ton-union.html
What's that? A group of overly entitled individuals with no grasp on reality, has a problem with the other group of same that made promises it wont keep?....
Where's the popcorn and my easy chair...this is gonna be good.
I have no doubt the union will threaten to go on strike and at the last minute the province will acquiesce because they are thinking of the children.
It won't be good as we will all pay for this lunacy.
Would hope York settles up with CUPE soon - I've gotta run the gauntlet of picketers tonight.
I'll bring the chips and Beer. Can't wait for this schemozzle. Rock on,dudes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Just tell them that you have a girlfriend who lives in res. That's what I did when they went on strike when I was there. Less hassle.Quote:
Originally Posted by mbhunter
That's mint. I'll have to try that tonight for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugger
That or attach a snow plow blade to the front of your vehicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by mbhunter
That's the cats azz rite there .Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Respect the right to strike!!!!! Discuss,...... this ought to be good,.... begin.
Jack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
The way I see it. Wynne and her government were handed a majority mainly due to support from unions, in particular the teachers ( mainly due to that idiotic "anyone but Hudak") logic.
The chickens are now coming home to roost, and it won't play out well for either. Wynne cannot afford to give them what they want, and if she does, it sets a dangerous precedent for any upcoming public sector contract renewals. The teachers who still have their head in the sand vis-a-vis the economy will likely not back down from what they feel they're entitled to.....
Due to support from voters...... Unions can't vote, members do.
Sure. No union ever pressured its members to vote a particular way. No union ever spent time and $$ delivering propaganda, and fear mongering documents to its membership in support of its own political goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I know of a few souls in the teachers union, and with OPSEU who voted their conscience, they are the exception rather than the rule.
Unions also don't have a history of bullying members who don't tow the party line right?
Lines 1 and 3 are of course sarcastic, since you clearly believe them to be truthful.
Nope, just getting the discussion started.
Smoke and mirrors. Wynne is far from stupid and she knows exactly how she attained power and how to keep it. They will put on a good show. Will do some picketing but the deal has already been settled and yes, the unions will be cashing in. The balancing of the budget will be kicked down the road and Harper will be blamed for the global oil market and US natural gas expansion and for overspending these last 10 years by the Provincial Liberals. The idiots will believe everything she says, she will campaign for Trudough which will knock Harper down to a minority government. Then at the first chance the Libranos and Dippers will form a coalition and take over ( even if they deny it during the campaign). This will give them about 4 years of living large and they will retire with juicy public pensions and golden handshakes. It's all good right?
I worked in a union workplace for 34 of my 37 rears, two different unions. At no time did a union steward/person ever encourage me to vote for any particular party.
Did they ever tell you that your union dues were in part going to some Political party that you may not support?
Did they ever tell you that you could take that portion of your union dues and direct it to a party of your choice?
I wasn't a union person. Like most, my priorities were the bills I had to pay and a family to raise and it wasn't till I was a bit more secure in those areas that I started to question their activities. I didn't like too much about what I was learning.
My 12.00 a month dues, gave me a steady ,stable job, equal pay for equal work, good benefits, a pension and protection from unjust supervisors. I voted for whom I wanted, for all parties at various times. I also pay taxes that were directed to those I would rather not get my money.
Lots of kids coming out of teachers college that can't find a job. Fire the ones that vote to strike, get rid of the union and hire the recent grads. Problem solved.
Not sure I would go that far. Completely removing a right to strike I don't think is necessary. What I do think is necessary is making it law that contracts can not include salary increases unless there is a balanced budget. I would make it illegal to force a deficit to pay for a wage increase in the public service. If times are good then everybody benefits. If times are bad then the PS also shares in the hardships and realities. Working for the PS should not insulate anybody from economic realities. Passing on massive debt to our children is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by M_P
And trust me, I have a kid in teacher's college so getting rid of deadwood in that industry has more than a little appeal to me. What I would like to see is to make retired teachers not be allowed to return as subs unless all unemployed teacher grads are offered the gigs first.
My wife is a secretary for the bd of ed. here in the Soo. She see's this nonsense all the time. Retiring at full pension then coming right back into the system as a casual... full time! Granted, it is the board that condones it since it is them who is hiring them back.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
My wife and I were quite involved in our kid's schools when they were in elementary, and saw it all the time. We also know people who are retired teachers who do exactly what you described. No retired teacher should be allowed to work if a certified grad is available to fill the spot. If you can't find a grad then so be it but in this market it would never happen. What we have are small groups of what often are friends of principals having steady gigs as supply teachers and hundreds of unemployed grads. The entire education system is broken and needs to be redone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
BINGO! These people have worked together for years. They let their buddy (the Principal) know they will be available and lo 'n' behold a long term position comes up and they get the call. Principals are management and hold a lot of sway within the board. A few words to the supt. (who in all likelihood is a buddy also) and they're in.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Oh, the stories I could tell if I knew I wouldn't get my wife in deep crud!
Thanks Steve, I needed a good giggle. Yup, this should be fun. Admittedly I am torn. I want both sides to loose!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
I just want the kids to win for once, they have always been the losers so far when it comes to Teachers negotiations and the usual strikes.
At $12 a month, might I assume that this was quite a while ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
To be fair, there are quite a few Union Shops that are probably like that, but I can assure you that no public sector union ( education included), is not very actively political. Public sector unions are what handed Wynne her majority, and they indeed used every bit of influence with their membership.
Sadly, this is never the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Our children are effectively held hostage by the greed that exists within these organizations.
Isn't that a sweet heart deal? Out the front door with the Golden Handshake and in the back door with the bag of money. Once I decided to retire,the die was caste. There was no turning back and once you're out,it's forever. None of this nonsense is ever allowed to happen. The Public Service unions need a huge comeuppance and reality check. The trick is electing a government that's tough enough to do it.
Couple things to keep in mind:
When a teacher moves from being a full time teacher to supply they open up a full time spot for new teachers.
Retired teachers are now limited to 50 days supply per year and after that they start having their pension docked.
The faster we can get a teacher who is "Done" out of the full time classroom the better.
I think the much more significant issue is those teachers who can take (seemingly endless) long-term leaves without going on a long term disability or whatever and therefore the boards must keep paying them as a full time teacher and keep their jobs open for them. Meaning that there is a supply doing their job for years without being granted full time employment. Although there are supposed to be controls it seems every school has a number of these ghost teachers who have been out for 4, 5, 8 years some have never set foot in the school.
I respect the right to strike. However, the right to strike doesn't give you the right to impede people trying to live their lives and go about their business. I attended Sir Sandford Fleming in Peterborough and we had a support staff strike one year. There were only two ways into the Sutherland Campus on Brealey Drive. I was commuting and I had one class at 10am in the morning for the entire day. The strikers were stopping people from entering the campus by blocking the entrance until they were handed a pamphlet telling people what they were striking about. It caused traffic chaos as people were trying to get into class and not only affected people trying to get into the campus but other people who had no affiliation with the school whatsoever who were trying to get to work by using the routes they normally take. The strike took three weeks to resolve (if I remember correctly) and I didn't know one person who wasn't affected at some point during that strike. People who had nothing to do with the discussion between the union and the college were hurt by the union who decided their right to strike trumped my right to go about my day. This kind of thing happens way to much when unions want to strike.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Dyth
Not as if this to hasn't been beaten to death.
Quote:
Elliot, however, said the government is still “clinging to the failed dogma of austerity.”
New report from the Fraser Institute out today.Quote:
What the province spends on total compensation — not just wages but also benefits like pensions and extra-medical coverage — has grown 47% since the 2005/06 fiscal year, while the combined inflation rate is just 15%, according to the study set for release Wednesday
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03...ser-institute/
I am an educational assistant in public schools. I make barely enough money to survive, my wages have been frozen for 5 years and we are way too shorthanded to meet all the needs at my school. Is this the "reality" that everyone feels I should face? Because it is already here. And just so you know I am an Opseu member and they in no way wanted the liberals in. They sure didn't like the conservatives either but as soon as the liberals were elected the first letter we got from the union was that Ontario sold their souls to the devil, an exact quote. It amazes me that the people that know the least about something have the biggest opinions.
I know this thread is directed towards teachers but somehow all public sector workers get lumped in with them pretty quickly.
Lol good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
So what have you done to improve your lot in life with summers off and being out of the school by 4 pm every day I think you would have had time to take courses to improve your chances of moving up in the system( school board or elsewhere ) You must have known before hand what an EA makes No?Quote:
Originally Posted by IceFanADDICT
I am also in the public system (education) nor have I had a raise in 5 years but you wont hear my whine about my situation. I would rather put that energy into improving myself so I can take advantage of opportunities that may come my way.
IF.
It's been beaten to death. No doubt there are people who may not accept that not all make a great living, or live very comfortably. Some people may think all "teachers" or all PS employees all voted for them. I have "no real idea" what a "teacher" makes. But lets say just for arguments sake say its $55,000. And without splitting hairs that's for 10 months work. Annualized that's $66k (the average working stiff couple earns 75k). Now add benefits......that most can only dream about...
Whatever the specifics are (immaterial to me). The larger issue is as quoted.
The cost of PS has exploded. There are reasons for that. Many used deny it vehemently, or argue it was just "pension" envy.
Kind of like Mr Elliot (the union head) wants to live in denial as well and put a gun to provinces head and hold students hostage. Maybe if all those PS people who have been reaping the benefits for years and have been benfitting from the vote buying/union buying and have been voting for them and re-electing them and helping to create the mess.
Maybe if others haven't been part of that 47% growth had been a little more realistic.
You wouldn't have gone 5 years without a raise to begin with.
So where does the bullseye belong?
On the people in private who are struggling to pay exploding bills, and taxes
who aren't getting big raises either.
Who don't have cushy Pensions that will see them retiring in their late 50s (if at all).
and have "had enough".
No
On all PS employees?
No
Or on the Liberals, the Unions, and those that helped create the mess.
"no-one to blame to but themselves"
Sorry to change topic , but this is in the same vein.... Sunshine list, no teachers just VP's and Principals. Everybody is upset at cops making over 100 grand. Well how come nobody is upset about the large # of bus drivers, sorry operators, on that list. Should a cop, teacher, or a nurse, not be paid more than a bus driver? People are saying, get more training, go get a better job, well the same applies ...go get a PS job. They are hiring new people every year.:scream:
I'm not whining I do like my job but no I'm not going to take more courses as I already owe more than I make in a year for schooling. I was just trying to show that I'm not going to be driving a yacht or retiring at 40 just because I work in a school. I have had people ask me what I do for a living and I reply educational assistant and they just roll there eyes at me and say "oh so you're where my taxes go" , that makes my blood boil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
So you're OPSEU, not OTF? So you can speak for people in that bargaining unit? Hardly. Sure, you're union head spoke out against Wynne. The OTF? Of course not. Why? $500 million or roughly half a billion spent in 2013 right before the election. Or did you miss that part? Of course none of that money made it to you, we're not painting you with that brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by IceFanADDICT
Source of the vote buying, sorry....goodwill payment...http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11...n_6187944.html
You and your ilk are not what the conversation is about....you're not a teacher, nor are you obviously sitting there with your head in the sand over the economy. Your decision to be an EA was your own however, there was no great change in that profession when you started down your path, either.
Wonder if they do the same thing to their garbage man , he likely earns more than you do. But it's OK because he works for Miller- GFL et al.
Pretty sure GFL doesn't offer a pension anywhere near what anyone in the PS gets. ( Including me);)Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
No, they have WSIB, how many garbage collectors last 25-30 years on the job... close to 0% I bet. You pay them not to work...forever.
I know quite a few teachers in the board I work for that made the sunshine list, mind you they teach night school and summer school as well. I dont begrudge teachers or the fact they can earn 90 grand for working 9 and a half months of the year I am pissed at the system that allowed it to happen.
In the states some teachers are Breaking Bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
not everyone in the union will vote to strike either... the union can say they want to strike, but its still up to the membership... unfornuatly i am with cupe, and we are haveing a strike vote this weekend, i have flat out said dont expect to see me on any picket line. its all just a game, unions start out offering what they want, government offers what they want, union threatens to go on strike in hopes of scaring them into a contract, hopefully in the middle... its frustrating as our board wants to settle a contract, but because of central bargaining we cant, so if all of ontario votes to go on strike, we gotta follow, but i will just go work somewhere else lol
do you really think the government really cares if teachers or anybody goes on strike? they will save millions... the population will be against the teachers, not the government, so its wynne wynne for them...
about EA's... they get paid far less then they should, i would rather see them making 90 K and the teachers makeing 40 K... i see first hand what alot of EA's put up with, and let me tell you i wouldnt want nothing to do it... they get all the difficult kids that kick them and scream at them...
Why, not many fireman on the sunshine list? Include their second jobs, I know many fireman , most have one. They can retire 5 years before anyone else, with a full pension. You can't pick on one particular sector, ignoring the rest. Teachers , cops, don't like....... , bus drivers , fireman, paramedics, leave them alone ,their cool.
lol G, you think it's so simple. :)
bottom line those people your mocking pay for your living. And if everyone did it. Who would create an economy. You've argued this stuff for years, and yet time and again statistics and reports come out.
like ps across the board earn 25% more than their counterparts, whether that's a janitor or VP. Like 47% growth vs 15%. Like statistics proving you retired in your early 50s and your twin will continue busting his back possibly into his 70s
me? I have a conscious
how much had the sunshine list grown in the past 8 years? Has it doubled?
you seriously must think the typical working stiff....
Answers? I have no clue.
but what ever comes "no one to blame" but"..
Don't blame the workers, your paid what your paid. Only 1% would be union activists. Most go to work and do the best they can. As well $100,000 in 1996, is a lot more than $100,000 in 2014.
anybody willing to go into a burning building deserves to be on the sunshine list...Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Well will say G, if you might note I always refer to "PS". And only ever rarely "single" any out.
But at the end of the day and it could be any combination of things…too many…too many top heavy…too many getting paid too much ( When reports say 25% more than the people paying for your life)...
A firefighter is only worth what can be afforded.
And yeah G, not sure if you know it but my father was a FF and died as a result of his job. So…..
The tail does not wag the dog.
No I did not know, sorry about your dad. Volunteer firefighters do it for free. I know a firefighter in Durham who told me his station went to just 14 calls in one year, (a year) that had flames, most calls are 911 responses where they stabilize, till EMS arrives. I am not slagging them, just spread the wrath around, not only on teachers and cops. For the sunshine list ,how about we use all the T4 slips, for all PS, bet most people would be shocked.
Years ago G. I dealt with it. The procession along the danny was nice, I still remember that.
But "heres" my question. If we think or agree (doesn't matter just saying) FFers should earn more annually….or we think/agree they should be nicely rewarded for their years of physical trauma (don't recall how many time he was in the hospital), mental trauma (try dealing with a kids skin running through your fingers like hot wax…his description to me one day when he got home) with a nice Pension.
How can we do that, when PS already "across the board" is compensated (wages and benefits) 25% more than people who can only dream about paying off mtgs, saving for retirement. Their bills and taxes are exploding….Same goes for "teachers" or Cops
And "currently" the province is in debt up to its eyeballs, they can't do anything right. etc, etc, etc.
*****
Id love to say the OPP deserved 13.5%….I can't
Id love say heck yeah, lets give teachers 5%…I cant
Not when
And I will say if we think FFers (for example) should earn 100k, retire at 53…Then we better find the fat in PS and reduce cost either by numbers, or "wages/benefits" and not off those who..So we can pay FFers better or hire a few more.
Look at the latest news reports! The fallacy of the PS being compensated less than private industry has been laid to waste. In Ontario especially there is a severe glut of over the top salaries that have no connection to better service to all.
In that I do agree, too many managers, let the workers do the jobs they are paid for , or get rid of them. It has been proven time and time again ,micromanaging , private or public sector , does not mean better service. I worked through the Rae-day years , maybe that is the way to go.
Well Rae and the Unions made that bed to begin with as well.
Yeah no argument, there's likely a lot of fat in the "upper echelons", or redundancies ( two many beuaracries) but the Unions always get in the way ( even in area's we might not want steep cuts but might want/need some) and get their way. Lose them and you lose elections.
The bulls eye belongs on
within my board there are 76 employees on the sunshine list, with the top earning person being the directer of education at $173,765 (4 X my annual salary) add in on top of that all the catered dinners, mileage (which dosent count towards annual salaries) easy to see where the money goes... unfornutaly cuts never happen at the top, its the bottom that gets the flack...
i took a pay cut coming to this job, hard to compare though, as went from a licensed trade to unlicensed jack of all trades but dont feal as though i need any more, as said earlier i wont support a strike, and told them if they offered us what we have now we would be in good shape...
lol it actually puts me in a tough spot as my local president is my hunting buddy... tension tension lol
No teachers want a strike.... government/unions just playing games.....
exactly, i cant afford to go weeks without pay... thats what i said earlier, the only people that lose are the people on strike, as basically they will just get starved out and end up signing a worse contract than originally offered... happens ofton, look at the township of bonfield last year, striked for like 6 months, all through the winter, then signed the same contract they were originally offered LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by fratri
Let's see.... using past history and what I know of different groups... let's see what the strategies might be.
Gov't strategy.... they aren't afraid to spend our money
Compensation for Ontario public servants has skyrocketed over the last 10 years of Liberal rule: Fraser Institute
Overall program spending (the amount Ontario spends every year after paying interest on debt and not including capital investments) rose 42% during that same period, from about $80 billion to over $115 billion, while spending on things other than compensation rose 39 per cent. And the number of government jobs increased by about 11%.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03...ser-institute/
1) Pay them off to get them to vote Liberal in the Federal election so they can get more from the Fed's
or
2) Stall, delay, negotiate but not really and try to get the strike to start in late may/June. Then they can blame the teachers for ruining the kids year and lock them out for the summer saving billions.
Union strategy
1) Get them to pay teachers off to get them to vote Liberal in the Federal election so they can get more from the Fed's
or
2) Stall, delay, negotiate but not really and try to get the strike to start in late may/June. Then they can blame the gov't for ruining the kids year and locking them out for the summer making the teachers more dependent on the Union.
Teachers
1) Liberal supporters
Demand to get paid more money they think they are entitled to so why not strike, afterwards they can buy a new car or get a bigger mortgage to pay of credit cards, interest rates are low so why pay off debt.
2) Conservative supporters
Hope to get paid more money because they work hard to help their family and the kids when they can in a messed up system, and they realize a strike will set them back more than the increase, slowing them paying off the mortgage and used car, realizing while interest rates are low now is when to pay off debt.
Students
1) Graduate out of this mess.
or
2)Hope for a strike to goof off and sponge off the parents more.
Or teachers vote for a strike and they work to rule.... Kids still get taught, classes are held but no after school activities.. teachers do more than teach......
no more
dart club
chess club
skills Canada competition
badminton
soccer team
hockey team
baseball team
golf team
computer science club
computer engineering club
badminton team
wrestling team
school dances
social justice group
home work club
breakfast club
school trips
rainbow club
Math club
music club/band
basket ball team
Plus many more I missed...
unforntuatly the only ones that lose in that situation are the kids... government dont care that the kids wont get any exrta curriculars... they will just save money again...Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
Don't forget no more field trips....
I always like how people quote the Fraser Institute as an authority. . Are you aware where their money comes from..... Well , 31% from corporations, , 57% ,business orientated charitable foundations ( tax free), and although hidden, also sponsored by the Koch brothers, % unknown . They are a right wing business think tank paid for by big business.... so you know who they are looking out for. I think their opinion is a little tainted. Why do none of you quote the Canadian Centre For Policy Alternatives? It is as far left, as the Fraser Institute is right.
Lol, Mosquito..There's a couple more I might add.
Fratri, please don't take this wrong, but most "professionals" are required to do things that don't adhere to the "job" description. Whether thats start 7am and finish at 6pm…work through lunches, put up with "stuff" (say like brats in the classroom and worse). Bring stuff home, so they are prepared for the meeting the next day…Answer emails on their phones at 8pm when they are watching TV with their kids, or 3am and something blows up.
Me?
I'm supposed to stay abreast of many things, be it world news, be it….Sometime's work on weekends (over time? What's that? I haven't received a penny for "OT" in 20 years)
I'm required by securities legislation in order to "serve you better" to do 12hours Continuing ED and 30hours Professional Development each cycle. Sometimes that means intensive studying for months, and 3hour exams and lots of time out of my life maybe becoming qualified to offer retirement planning advice, or talk Mutual Funds with you or….even though in my line of the industry I will never put that into application. It's not "for me", but for who? Ah yes, you so I can "better serve you".
More I might add…..
And it doesn't earn me OT, or raises or….
Unlike teachers who do the same, can do the same during their 2 month vacation and because they get that "piece of paper", automatically get a raise. Maybe instead if "teachers" were compensated for "performance"…or "those who go the extra mile"….Thats been tabled to….and the "reaction"?
That (Every "profession" has yellow grass) applies to all kinds of professions, teachers aren't special, sometimes it's hard not to get the sense they just think they are. And here I was thinking they loved our kids and should be happy to...
edit add
dont take that wrong
The grass isn't always "greener"…..or "yellower".
But the facts are professionals in all walks of life……..Why is it "Unions"….pulll the "work to rule" stuff out...
Yes G they are right wing, so some salt needs to be taken. It's not just them though is it (Drummond just to start)? And even if you apply some salt and allow for some exaggeration, some spinning. Everyone, in every party Prov or Fed knows Pensions need to be reformed to.
Yes, yes, I know. People on the other side never distort things either.
Proof is in the pudding G.
Whether thats historical trends since the 1960s that show without any question that the middle class is shrinking while gov't and the cost of gov't has grown. Maybe just me, but if one thing is going down and the other side up…...Related to that, years ago you took jobs in PS for security ( PS is largely immune to downturns/layoffs, can't really lay off teachers, cops, Drs Nurses, social workers, more just because things go in the can) great benefits ( Pensions etc)……….but less pay. Instead today you/they have your cake and get to eat it to.
The fact so many people in private can't save for retirement, don't have pensions, have too much debt…….
The fact the Sunhsine list has grown in leaps and bounds. Not necessarily the wage amounts..the number of people on it. Now do recall how Pensions work…So thats a double whammy.
The fact "people" (PS and Private) pay more in taxes, than they spend on their homes and food..
(see shrinking middle class,) than they did just 20 years ago when people spent more on themselves than they did "everyone else".
The fact there are so many, like yourself who are retiring early……while others are working well into their 60s..
So many more things by now you should know you can't 'refute".
When the body of evidence is so overwhelming……Even with some salt…..
I think I know where the "truth" is through all the smoke.
Just one "last thing" with respect to this particular "discussion" (PS vs Pri). It really has been "beaten to death" and really it's not hard to see how /why and through the smoke over 30years and the last 10.
"IF" everyone in the province earns X and for 20yrs they/we all get cost of inflation raises. Lets say 2% each year.
JQ (Johny Q private) will get 20 x2%
JP (Johny Q public)will get 20 x 2%….and the more he earns, the more the Pension pays, so its not the same is it? They aren't "keeping" pace are they?
Now what happens when the economy shrinks and there are all kinds of job losses in private…and all kinds of people taking less home, but keeping their jobs….or losing their jobs but accepting lower paying ones just so they can "get by".
Answers?
At this point who the heck knows…(Might have had a decent chance in 2011……and 2014…) But its not hard at all to just look at things and see the "truth". With crystal clarity? I doubt even Drummond/moodys, more saw that or many others who have chimed in on this or related topics.
For what its worth and I do have Teachers/EAs in my family. If their Union and the Union head can't see the problems, the disparities and the need for solutions. ANd they do go on strike or "work to rule".
Im pretty sure the back lash thats building is just going to get worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
The Canadian Centre For Policy Alternatives are essentially idiots is the main reason, they only know one thing, MUST TAX MORE!!!! Let's look at their recent article on Ontario
https://www.policyalternatives.ca/si...%20Problem.pdf
Conclusion
The Ontario government has set out two priorities: a) to balance the budget
by 2017–18 and b) to invest in people and infrastructure. As the government
faces increasing pressure to make good on its promises, one option is left: to
raise revenue. This paper presents a suite of options available to the prov-
incial government to restore Ontario’s fiscal health while preserving—and
hopefully enhancing public services. There are certainly more options
that could be explored. The point is: both goals can be met, but the govern-ment must raise taxes to do so.
Clueless.... cutbacks, wage freezes, responsibility, austerity, priorities, better decision making.... unknown words to these clueless money grabbing economy/savings killers. They would run up the personal debt to pay for the gov't debt... all because they can't figure out basic economics and act responsibly!
I would love to see them add 30 minutes or an hour to the school day (my son is home at 2:30) and some better performance evaluations, maybe not every year but enough to keep them from being useless paper pushers. I know we had to get my daughter a tutor in a couple subject because she got no help from the teacher and according to her the teacher just handed out some paper, gave a quick description and you were on your own. As for talking to the teacher....useless...so with the tutor for two 30 minute session each week she ended up on the honour role again. From what my daughter told he the usual session was 5 or 10 minutes of explanation and the rest doing some sample problems to confirm the understanding so the teacher was either:
1) incompetent
2) doesn't care about the kids actually understanding
3) needs more time
or a combination of the above
Teachers increases are tied to the number of years they are there, those pay grades should be tied to inflation. If inflation is 1% then each grade should get a 1% increase... nothing more. No other profession is your annual increase so tightly tied to how many years you are there. A person at max can hardly complain at making the money they do with the benefits they do and even considering the after hours marking and preparing test having 2 months off (plus Christmas/march break/PA days...).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ions-1.1220772
Ontario teachers currently have a starting wage of between $41,766 and $44,292. The maximum wage in elementary schools is $92,813 in elementary schools and $94,942 in secondary schools, depending on years of service and education
You guys that dislike teachers and their pay so much should use that energy/anger/passion you have and get into politics so you can change the system.
Or maybe its simply realizing things are screwed up and being willing/able to look at/discuss it.
You do know the province is in debt up to it's eyeballs right? And why? (lots of reasons, but one is mad hiring/spending in PS too)
That there are "problems" right?
That Pensions are being looked at hard by all govts including Ms Wynne. By all means go to Prov ONT. ca and see what Ms Wynne herself has to say on it. Im sure no-one foresaw how things might be/go 30 years ago.
That people today pay more in taxes, than they spend on housing/food/clothing and why?
Well when more than .55 on every dollar the province receives goes towards the "cost of govt"
When .10 on every dollar also goes to Interest. And why have they borrowed so much? Because more than 50% of the budget goes to "the cost of govt"
Leaving roughly .35 for the "beef"….
When the sunshine list
Honestly F, how many jobs/industries hand out raises simply because you've been there X years. Doesn't matter how good you are, how dedicated you are, or not….
You brought up the "yellow" grass….Everyone has that... Name me one or two professions that don't. Teachers aren't special in that respect..But sometimes…thats used as…."ammunition"
Its not about envy. It's about common sense.
And I just want to add. Until and unless the Unions are really willing to look at things realistically…
Maybe McGuinty/Wynne would have to be starting to play hardball just as Bob Rae did after he to caved to them so much.
Haven't we not learned from the past?
"Just food for thought" and hopefully "my" position on this will be a little clearer.
If the Unions hadn't balked so much ( and when I use that word I mean all plural, not any single) way back, if they had instead "listened" to the warnings…..If Ms Wynne/McG hadn't handed out sweet raises to some, but not others. Hired so many...
Since the infamous we are going to hold the line in 2010
8 of 10 have received raises.
If the one teachers Union hadn't refused the (what 2%?) back in what 2011…If Ms Wynne hadn't had closed door meetings and handed out 500mm to them, or X or Y..but then again people were fizzed and there was an election coming.
If they all had been willing to accept there were problems, had listened to the likes of Don Drummond, Moodys (downgraded in 2012 and we might get it again ) had they listened to more. If even more money hadn't been spent buying another election and buying a few Unions.
If even all PS Pensions had been reformed (just going from DBP to DCP) a little say back in 2012….saving how much? .I wonder how much $ the prov might have or if there would even be a deficit (lets somehow pretend that nightmarish debt doesn't exist and for now just worry about the deficits)
If we all would be getting taxed hard for infrastructure they ignored in favor of…..
If there might be money so EAs, the MNR and others at least wouldn't have to suffer and could maybe get raises
If there might be money for desperately needed Nurses, Drs other healthcare things
And maybe even a small cost of living raise for teachers
one thing you left out though, is what he contributes into his pension also grows... PS dosent just simply sit back and collect a pension, alot gets paid into out of pocket to... $20 in PS and $20 in private is still the exact same, if the person in private sector invested the same amount of money into a good rrsp plan, their pension would be just as good if not better... in my previous job i contributed less money into a rrsp, then what i pay into my pension now, and i still wouldve came out ahead working 35 years there vs. 35 years here... but being a finacial person you shouldve already knew that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
The number of "armchair experts" with an axe to grind with education mean that I no longer post in these threads. It's like banging your head into a wall. It feels much better when you stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
Anybody that kills as many coyotes as you do can teach my kids anytime and I'd be happy to pay whatever the going rate is.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
That is true FS
cant speak for all the various plans (I think there are differences amongst them)
For example.
One right wing study "claims" that two "equal managers" one at Hydro, one in private. They claim the hydro manager makes over 200k/year and the same manager elsewhere 125-150k.
for every dollar the hydro manager contributes to his DBP, tax payers contribute 4.
sweet deal.
so basically if those same 2 "typical" people above each contribute $500 per year. The PS persons plan will grow by 2000.00 (using the 4 to 1 ratio). I sincerely doubt that's true everywhere.
DBPs are really expensive because typically the Benefit (B) is avg of the highest earning years. So guess what. With DCPs the benefits received are by definition based off the contributions. Just making this change would save "us" a lot of $. Money that could then be used to give raises, or buy MRIs, or hire more nurses or....
*********
i don't doubt some think I hate "teachers". I don't if they get kneecapped 5 of my cousins and 2 of my aunts do.
basically "we" have some serious problems. And likely more on the horizon (Boomers and healthcare). Hard choices need to be made.
If if I have two people in front of me who could use a cup of coffee. Well I'll probably give it to the person who likely won't be retiring until they are 65 first. And if I don't have a cup of coffee to give either of them. I'm not taking it from the one is relatively" worse off and giving it to the one who while they could use it, don't need it as much
yes i can imagine a hydro pension is good haha also dont know the inns and outs of other public sector pensions, mine in some ways works like a rrsp, i put roughly $150 a paycheck in (cant change it, set amount) and the board matches... but dosent work like a rrsp, i have zero say where money goes, dont really ean interest on it... the maximum i can draw is 70% of my annual salary (which in that 70 % also account for old age/cpp) and i can work here for 35 years to earn that 70 % i personally have zero asperations of still working here when im 75 lol id rather see that gone, and go to a rrsp plan like alot of private sectors have, i have done very well investing my rrsps with previous companies, and gained big during the recession, well after it technically... im sure that plan benefits teachers and the likes, that are making the big bucks, after all even 50 % of 100 K is alot better than 70% of 45K lol
As I said I know there are different plans and this is one reason why I always to talk about the "cost of govt" or "PS" and not single any out. Not every area is going to have too many heads, or too many managers (sunshine list types), or a combination things which might, stress that word might….people earning too much ( Salary and benefit)…Its waaay beyond any of to say….They get paid too much, or there are too many..
I have no doubt some think I hate PS employees (despite so many in my family being leo, ems, af, teachers, EAs :) )
No I just know when I see big problems, big ones coming and nothing being done about it. My "beef" is with the Unions, they've proven they are incapable of thinking beyond themselves, are only political and swing elections. They will "fight" with each other, try to "one up each other" and much more. If I was god I would dismantle them, or find a way to kick them out of Queens Park.
How hard would it be for every union and a whole bunch are really bright people like Drummond and the types at Moodys to sit at a table and figure things out. People (and yeah I do think "private" is taking it up the backside) are paying steep prices for it.
Book mark this site and poke around it when you have time. Theres some really good information for you personally, but also on the topic of the need for pension reforms….There is/was one article on the different types of reforms they might try but as always its a given
the Unions will go bat ship crazy and….
First couple link are directly related to "reforms" but there is sooooo much more (poke around the site)
http://www.benefitscanada.com/pensio...r-reform-43224
http://www.benefitscanada.com/pensio...retirees-45291
One more (but you can also use the "search" for "reforms, top 100 and types and more)
http://www.benefitscanada.com/pensio...g-it-all-18011
/edited because caffeine is still firing up the grey matter.
People especially those at QP and the Unions had better start thinking less about "today" and more about whats coming…..
And the fact so many in Private don't have Pensions
Cant save
Pay more to taxes than they do housing/food
And are getting hit even harder now thanks to the Liberals and the Unions and will have even less pocket money to….
Now that made me smile...Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
Thank you :)
No comments on the sunshine list release today? 11500 employees from hydro one and union gas on it. Did I read that correctly?