Importance of control

No wonder some dog owners and dogs get a bad report at times. Tonight I witnessed just how important controlling your dog is when off lead ( I already knew such importance, but was scary to watch none the less).
The end of my road meets another road to make a T and in the centre of that T is the entrance to the trail in the bush we walk. At the end of the right side of the T is the main road in our little town TL shape. Just as I approached the end of my road I heard an excited high pitched barking/squealing and out of the bush running across the road was a deer bounding for all its life - I thought it was a coyote!.....a pickup was driving down the road and narrowly missing the dog that was in hot pursuit of the deer who now was heading down the neighbours lawn towards the main road during dinner time. Out of the bush pops the guy walking the with the other dog off leash bounding around the road following the trail. He had absolute no control of these dogs. I stood there in disbelief. I hope that the deer and dogs did not become victim to a car or better yet I hope no ones car became victim to someones stupidity. Not pointing fingers at a particular breed...but both dogs are huskies - a known 'runner' breed.
Me and dogs were headed to the trail for our walk, I unclipped the leashes and off mine went for thier evening walk. In control. In peace. Brandy is old so she doesnt run or go far. Titan.....wears his Dogtra train n beep e-collar proudly and is allowed to be off leash as he listens and only needs the odd locator beep to be reminded his distance is too far. Because if he ever even thinks for a second that he is gonna pull that kind of chase he has another thing coming. Through a strong recall foundation and all the obedience training we have been working on, his recalls are beautiful. But I also like that extra safety net of the e-collar looming at the back of his mind knowing that he is under my control.

Seen that scenario happen many times over the years. I just shake me head in disbelief.

Yup that's why from day 1 to end of days the collar is on while off leash. Dogs will always be dogs and its just sheer arrogance to believe that your dog is so well train that it won't bolt. Its insurance just never know.

I agree with you Maplevizsla. It is smart to have something to fall back on in the event your dog elects to disregard a command that he rarely disregards. Folk simply don't understand the value prey drive has in a competent working dog but it can unleash the inner demon now and again.
I would like to offer that for most bird doggers with pointing breeds - do NOT use the locate feature as a recall instrument. Not a good idea.

Hi Ugo, could you elaborate for the/us newbies. Thanks Chris

Sorry Chris. My oversight. The locate feature beeps - not unlike the sound of the other modes on a Dogtra.
My preferred method of hunting my dog on wild birds is in complete silence. That includes grouse/woodcock in dense early season cover. The mode I choose to deploy with my Dogtra 2502 is the "point only" mode, meaning the beeper only sounds if my dog has a find, in which case I immediately turn the beeper off (because this Dogtra system allows you to do that remotely) and then I go to my pointing dog.
So if I use a beep as a recall, I render my beeper - whose intent is to take you to your dog and not your dog to you - virtually useless. The reason is, when my dog goes on point and the beeper goes off indicating a find, the dog will find itself in ambiguity, "Oh, oh...I better get back to the boss...but I've got a bird here....?!?!?!?"
Even if you don't use your collar as I do, what happens if you don't see your dog for a period of time but that's because he's on point. The dog might not be that far from you either. You finally elect to press locate. What is this dog-on-point now to do?
In my opinion ONLY, a dog that breaks off a find to come to you has a serious deficiency either in it's core fabric or in it's training.
Hope this helps?

Thanks Ugo. Helps a lot.

My pleasure!

For those with new pups I can tell you what has always worked for me: Call the pup ONCE starting at 8 weeks. If the pup doesn't come say nothing more and go and get it. It's a pain in the butt to get off the couch or go outside in your socks but it works. 2+-3 months and that dog will come to you every time on one call. Well worth the effort for 15 months of coming when called.

Sharon. I had a variation on that...Reacher was always slow to respond, especially when he was out on the hay field. So I would jump on the ATV (Big Red) and literally herd him back to the house. Chase him down, circle him and keep him running till he headed for home. After 5-6 times it worked and he now comes home as soon as he's called. :)

Before everyone gets too focused on contol, bear in mind that for a bird dog to be successful it needs to be allowed a certain amount of independance and freedom. Too much control will hinder their ability to find birds. There is a fine line that needs to be walked. The best bird dogs I know have a little bit of outlaw in them and if you lock them down too tight their bird count goes way down. I see it in young dogs as I develop them. As pups they find lots of birds, when I start to teach them to handle and stay with me the bird count drops. Once they handle properly I give them their freedom back and the bird count goes way up.


I am not saying they should be allowed to chase deer or off game across the blacktop as described above but be careful that you do not micro manage your bird dog. They need the freedom to expand their range to find birds in tough conditions or when bird numbers are low. When my dogs are off leash they always have an e-collar on unless we are in competition. Anytime you do something with your dog you are teaching it something, whether good habits or bad habits. You need to be consistent in what you ask of the dog and you need to always be in a position to correct undesired behaviour.


I agree with Ugo and would not use the tone or locate feature on a beeper collar as a recall. Although I think a well trained dog will know that it needs to stand if it is pointing a bird even if it is trained to recall on the tone. Which leads to Ugo's comment, which I agree with, "In my opinion ONLY, a dog that breaks off a find to come to you has a serious deficiency either in it's core fabric or in it's training."


Looking at MV's post I assume she was not using the tone as a recall but as more of a warning when he gets too far, tone frist then comes the stimulation if he doesn't comply. I know people that use this method or use the vibrate function in some collars. For people like myself that don't use beepers or collars with a vibrate function there is nothing wrong with using your voice or whistle combined with low level stimulation to get the same results. If you are using voice or whistle make sure that the commands are consistent and you the same words or whistle all the time.

Yes Jakezilla I use the beep as a warning only, NOT for recall. Its a 'your out too far and gone too long not in acceptable range and I need to know where you are'. When you live where I do and run the dogs in the bush lot that I do, I need to use this beep function to ensure that he isn't where he shouldn't be. This has never hindered or changed his range or hunting ability. If I beep it ( only once) he reigns himself in now and hunts/runs at an appropriate distance and range. No vibration, it sits on level 25-30 for dog walks and only ever needed level 60 a few times hunting. I am not taking chances of citizens in our town flagging my dog for possibly deer chasing, ao I take the extra measure to prevent it and stop it if it should ever happen.