Breeding Dogs

Looking for some advice/answers in the above title....i have been trying to stud my chocolate lab for the past 2 weeks with another chocolate ......this weekend is the es peak in her cycle and my lab has not even tried to get onto her yet.....he is almost 2 yrs old and she is almost 3 never bred....both virgins....any tricks or advice on how to would be greatly appreciated.....she seems to be ready for him and throwing her butt into him/nipping his neck/ears but all my boy does is try to get at her neck and bark but all in fun.....seems they are more playing then trying to do the deed.....is this what leads up to them getting close.....never done this sort thing before....thanks

Not trying to be a smart a $ $ here, but it sounds like you're trying to be a backyard breeder. If you have to ask those questions you shouldn't be attempting it.

And what is the purpose of this forum then Last50h_32.....i suppose you were a professional at every single thing you have done in your life....yes you rubbed me the wrong way with your response to my question......if one doesn't know, ask.....how does one learn without asking or trying.....they are both pure breds so don't worry about that.....

Youre not feeding them Beneful or pro plan are you.? Sorry couldnt resist making a crack to lighten the mood, its obvious we are all passionate about our dogs and i believe asking questions is a good thing.. carry on gentleman.

Deerslayer,
A couple of constructive comments hopefully to address the issue. First, male dogs have a phenominal nose, when it's right.....it's right.....when it's not then it's not.
Several years ago I was doing a breeding and having the same luck. Had the female tested 3 times that week and the Vet thought by look of cells it was right. So we did a manual breeding with several of us all involved collecting and then installing the semen. We did this as it was a very important FT Champion x Field Champion and we wanted it to work. On the 18th day when some females are almost done things were right. The male dog would have gone through a wall and the ties were quick and good.

In some lines the females are early, some on time and some late in the cycle. You may have to wait. Watch his nose.

I trust both are healthy with clearances in place. Hope you had her checked for brucilosis for males sake as well. Be patient.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Not trying to be a smart a $ $ here, but it sounds like you're trying to be a backyard breeder. If you have to ask those questions you shouldn't be attempting it.

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That's a crappy response. Isn't this one of the great things about this forum. You can get advice from members who have similar interests. Everyone at some point knew nothing. You read to learn. You ask question to learn. Shame on you for this response.

Yeah, that was a crappy response. My apologies.

I went on and assumed something I shouldn't have. It's just that you see so many breedings on places like Kijiji where breeding isn't done to better the breed, it's done to line the pockets of the breeder. An ethical breeder will usually have a mentor the first few times doing a breeding on their own. As krakadawn mentioned, heath testing should be done and registered on ONA so you can check the clearances on parents, grand parents, etc. There's a whole lot more, like titles where a breeder works with and proves their dogs prior to breeding them, etc. A breeder that follows all of those ethics doesn't make much if anything when you factor in the costs of health testing, training, showing, etc. They do it because they love and want to better the breed.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Yeah, that was a crappy response. My apologies.

I went on and assumed something I shouldn't have. It's just that you see so many breedings on places like Kijiji where breeding isn't done to better the breed, it's done to line the pockets of the breeder. An ethical breeder will usually have a mentor the first few times doing a breeding on their own. As krakadawn mentioned, heath testing should be done and registered on ONA so you can check the clearances on parents, grand parents, etc. There's a whole lot more, like titles where a breeder works with and proves their dogs prior to breeding them, etc. A breeder that follows all of those ethics doesn't make much if anything when you factor in the costs of health testing, training, showing, etc. They do it because they love and want to better the breed.

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at the same time not everyone can afford to pay $1000+ for a puppy, those back yard breeders give people an opportunity to own a puppy without breaking the bank...

as mentioned, your male will know when its time, being he is inexperienced it may take him a try or 2 to realize whats going on, but he will figure it out... you remember what its like to be young :0

Last5oh_302.....apology accepted

everyone else, thanks for the responses and i never thought it would be this consuming to have 2 dogs do it but trial and error i will succeed .....

Fishy Steve...to be young again...get in get out.....lol

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Originally Posted by fishy steve

at the same time not everyone can afford to pay $1000+ for a puppy, those back yard breeders give people an opportunity to own a puppy without breaking the bank...

0

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That's why you rescue, or adopt rather than lining the pockets of these backyard breeders. They make sure the dog pounds stay full, and if you take your time you can find pups in most breeds come up for adoption..

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

That's why you rescue, or adopt rather than lining the pockets of these backyard breeders. They make sure the dog pounds stay full, and if you take your time you can find pups in most breeds come up for adoption..

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the $150 i paid for my pure bred lab (non papered) im sure didnt make anybody rich... planned to adopt, called a local place, after they explained all the in home visits, wanted me to fill out a questionairre to make sure i was capable of looking after a puppy etc, i said look ive had dogs since i was born, hung up the phone, and seen that ad in the paper so went and bought her... best decision i ever made... mind you she can be a head case at times lol

Just my two cents. Biologically he is ready - my advice - wait until he is at least 2 1/2 years old. He will be fully developed an you wouldn't have to question his abilities, interest or the side of team plays in.

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Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Looking for some advice/answers in the above title....i have been trying to stud my chocolate lab for the past 2 weeks with another chocolate ......this weekend is the es peak in her cycle and my lab has not even tried to get onto her yet.....he is almost 2 yrs old and she is almost 3 never bred....both virgins....any tricks or advice on how to would be greatly appreciated.....she seems to be ready for him and throwing her butt into him/nipping his neck/ears but all my boy does is try to get at her neck and bark but all in fun.....seems they are more playing then trying to do the deed.....is this what leads up to them getting close.....never done this sort thing before....thanks

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Or you could play a Marvin Gaye album. Has worked wonders for me in the past.

Adoption fees at the humane society can be quite high. Big deterrent for some people.

If people can't afford adoption fees, how do they afford the vet? Go get a cheapie from a backyard breeder and dump it at the pound when they need to go to the vet? Whatever money the byb gets goes right back into pumping out another batch of pups to sell cheap. It's a vicious cycle.

The last time I adopted the fee was $380 from the Hamilton/Burlington humane society. I had to fill out an application and do a small interview. At least they care a bit about where they place a dog, but the backyard greeder will grab anyone's money.
That adoption fee included 6 weeks of pet insurance, spey, micro chip, and license.

I don't disagree. Just sayin that some people don't want to pay 300 bucks for *possibly* someone else's problem. People will never stop breeding dogs, and regardless of how many adopt there will always be tons of dogs in shelters. You can't engineer stupidity out of the general human population.

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Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

...he is almost 2 yrs old

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So you're breeding your male and he is not yet 2 yrs old, that means that you have not had his hip or elbow clearances done as these cannot be done before the dog is 24 months old ..... let alone eyes, CNM or EIC. As a BARE minimum hips, elbow (OFA) and eye (CERF) clearances should be done before any breeding is.

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Originally Posted by Dakota Creek

So you're breeding your male and he is not yet 2 yrs old, that means that you have not had his hip or elbow clearances done ....let alone eyes, CNM or EIC. As a BARE minimum hips, elbow (OFA) and eye (CERF) clearances should be done before any breeding is.

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Deerslayer,
Read the above post carefully.

If you need help understanding what /why these tests are important go ahead and ask, we'll try to guide you through this.

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Originally Posted by Dakota Creek

So you're breeding your male and he is not yet 2 yrs old, that means that you have not had his hip or elbow clearances done ....let alone eyes, CNM or EIC. As a BARE minimum hips, elbow (OFA) and eye (CERF) clearances should be done before any breeding is.

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Im glad you pointed this out DC as I didn't want to look like the bad guy again. This is only part of the equation, but a very important part.
Just because two dogs have papers, doesn't mean they should be bred, but the Ckc doesn't care about that. They'll take your money. Just because a dog has papers doesn't make it any better. Backyard breeders have fancy websites Showing their Ckc papered dogs. This is what people shopping for a puppy will eat up but they don't know any better.


Most people that want to breed their dog won't care and will go ahead and breed their dogs anyway, even after being shown how to do it ethically. It's all about making a buck for them, or, the reasoning is my dog is so nice I want a pup from her/him. Where these pups are placed, the health of those pups, the vet bills involved with breeding (even using a vet) are never considerations.

I'm not trying to slam you deerslayer but I hope you get something out of this before you attempt to breed your dog again.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Im glad you pointed this out DC as I didn't want to look like the bad guy again. This is only part of the equation, but a very important part.
Just because two dogs have papers, doesn't mean they should be bred, but the Ckc doesn't care about that. They'll take your money. Just because a dog has papers doesn't make it any better. Backyard breeders have fancy websites Showing their Ckc papered dogs. This is what people shopping for a puppy will eat up but they don't know any better.


Most people that want to breed their dog won't care and will go ahead and breed their dogs anyway, even after being shown how to do it ethically. It's all about making a buck for them, or, the reasoning is my dog is so nice I want a pup from her/him. Where these pups are placed, the health of those pups, the vet bills involved with breeding (even using a vet) are never considerations.

I'm not trying to slam you deerslayer but I hope you get something out of this before you attempt to breed your dog again.

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You appologize for being obtuse, and then get right back up on your soapbox again. Ok, we get it, you're a snob when it comes to breeding, and think that every breeder out there should be registered, and register their pups.

How about this little scenario, which obviously eludes you...

There are a number of outdoorsmen, and dedicated "dog guys", who actually engage in breeding their dogs to help each other out. Believe it or not, it actually is a lot like that in the US, and a few guys up here do it too.

My little black lab female came from a friend who bred his female once, to another friends lab. No, she doesn't have papers, and since i have no interest in breeding her, nor running her in field trials or any other "sanctioned" event...why do I care? Did my friend make money on it? Probably broke even considering his time, effort, vet bills etc. But I got an American Labrador, with both sire and dam beautiful hunters, and at 7 months, she's shaping up to be every bit the dog her parents were.

Save your hang ups and stereotypes for another crowd.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

You appologize for being obtuse, and then get right back up on your soapbox again. Ok, we get it, you're a snob when it comes to breeding, and think that every breeder out there should be registered, and register their pups.

How about this little scenario, which obviously eludes you...

There are a number of outdoorsmen, and dedicated "dog guys", who actually engage in breeding their dogs to help each other out. Believe it or not, it actually is a lot like that in the US, and a few guys up here do it too.

My little black lab female came from a friend who bred his female once, to another friends lab. No, she doesn't have papers, and since i have no interest in breeding her, nor running her in field trials or any other "sanctioned" event...why do I care? Did my friend make money on it? Probably broke even considering his time, effort, vet bills etc. But I got an American Labrador, with both sire and dam beautiful hunters, and at 7 months, she's shaping up to be every bit the dog her parents were.

Save your hang ups and stereotypes for another crowd.

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You don't get it either. Sad.

Go work in a rescue or pound for a while. Perhaps only then you'll be enlightened but until so, keep your head buried in the sand.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

You don't get it either. Sad.

Go work in a rescue or pound for a while. Perhaps only then you'll be enlightened but until so, keep your head buried in the sand.

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Why should I? Oh, and I've read your posts just fine, I get where you're coming from.

You seem to think that any non-registered guy out there that breeds a dog is a nefarious backyard breeder, who is out for profit and doesn't care about his dogs or where they go. That quite simply isn't the case. You're bringing a very narrow view to this conversation.

My wife volunteers at the local SPCA, and while many of the dogs that come in are very sad stories. There are lots that came from "reputable breeders" as well.

The ignorance is in being so narrow minded that you can't see that there are good and bad on both sides of that particular fence.

Now please, and I'm serious. Explain to me how my situation is "sad"?

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Why should I? Oh, and I've read your posts just fine, I get where you're coming from.

You seem to think that any non-registered guy out there that breeds a dog is a nefarious backyard breeder, who is out for profit and doesn't care about his dogs or where they go. That quite simply isn't the case. You're bringing a very narrow view to this conversation.

My wife volunteers at the local SPCA, and while many of the dogs that come in are very sad stories. There are lots that came from "reputable breeders" as well.

The ignorance is in being so narrow minded that you can't see that there are good and bad on both sides of that particular fence.

Now please, and I'm serious. Explain to me how my situation is "sad"?

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You don't even know what a "reputable" breeder is. I've said my bit. Carry on with your backyard breeding and enjoy, BBD. You're part of the problem.

BTW, a reputable breeder wants their pups/dogs back if the owners can't keep them for whatever reason, so no, your wife won't see dogs at the pound from a "reputable" breeder.

Bluebulldog has hit the nail on the head here for my situation and i will not be posting anymore to this thread as it has turned into a show once again......thanks for the advice all......

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

You don't even know what a "reputable" breeder is. I've said my bit. Carry on with your backyard breeding and enjoy, BBD. You're part of the problem.

BTW, a reputable breeder wants their pups/dogs back if the owners can't keep them for whatever reason, so no, your wife won't see dogs at the pound from a "reputable" breeder.

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And most usually do get involved if the owner chose not to.

again...I ask, since you seem to feel so strongly on this, why am I "sad"? And what problem am I a part of?

I don't know if you are a hunter, since I don't recall seeing your posts on any of the forums I've been on, but just an FYI, this "problem" you refer to, was pretty much how things were done before elitist kennel clubs got involved. Hunters would breed litters of good producing dogs, mainly in the interest of furthering the breed, and continuing the character traits that they found appealing.

I guess you'd consider it "sacrilege" if a guy bred a lab to a GSP if both sire and dam were outstanding hunters? Yet, in Germany even until the middle of the last century, that's what took place. Open breeding for characteristic. It's one of the reasons why some of the german blood lines don't have as many genetic issues, since it was closed long after many other breeds were.

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Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Bluebulldog has hit the nail on the head here for my situation and i will not be posting anymore to this thread as it has turned into a show once again......thanks for the advice all......

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Evidently some posters think $1000 and a piece of paper will make a better dog owner.

There are three ways to get a dog. Rescue, adopt, or buy from a breeder that follows a code of ethics. The rest are backyard breeders.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

There are three ways to get a dog. Rescue, adopt, or buy from a breeder that follows a code of ethics. The rest are backyard breeders.

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According to you....but I guess since you're on the soapbox you must be the authority.

You know what? Little back checking....I couldn't recall you posting anything about hunting or fishing, at all.....and there it is, going all the way back to OCT 2014, not a single post out of you regarding hunting or fishing. A few posts on ATVs, a few posts on vehicles, and an exceptionally high number of dog related posts....most of which, highly opinionated, and not terribly respectful of anyone that doesn't share your narrow view on things. Almost like you're a lurker for an agency like the SPCA.

Sorry friend, but your credibility is just about nil with me. This is a forum for outdoors pursuits, and it doesn't really appear that you have much purpose here. Going to report to mods and see what their take is.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

According to you....but I guess since you're on the soapbox you must be the authority.

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No, I didn't make all that up on my own, but I did learn, and now understand the error in my past ways.

The whole "reputable breeder" thing is akin to an "honorable senator"... some may be, but hard to tell which are which and which are not.

By the way - where does one buy there "reputable breeder" card from anyway??? Or how does one join this club???

I'd guess it is by moving up from being a hobby breeder.

I know of a couple of breeders who have advertised in the past in OOD and have been mentioned on the forum here in positive posts which do things which aren't quite what you'd expect from a "reputable breeder" including getting suspended by the CKC.

Give the guy a break - 10 years from now he might be one of these "reputable breeders" we speak of.

Many of those so called "reputable breeders" who follow a so called "code of ethics" and breed standards are responsible for pretty abhorrent traits in a number of breeds such as the bulldog, german sheperd and Cavalier king charles spaniel...... pretty sure this is neither reputable nor ethical. Organizations such as the CKC and the breeders who slavishly follow some of the ridiculous standards set by those organizations have done more of a disservice to dogs than a great many sportsman looking to breed his favored companion responsibly.

To the OP .....
As we all know a dog is a long term commitment and when someone decides to get a pup they are hoping to be on the receiving end of a healthy dog who will be part of the family for many years. I made no comment with regards to papers / reputable breeder only made mention of getting health clearances on your dog for hips, elbows and eyes ... Hoping of course that the owner of the dam has done the same.

Both dogs may be wonderful hunters that have the genetics / talent for waterfowl or upland (or the dog games should you decide to give that a try someday) but what if one or both dogs were to have marginal or poor hips or a genetic eye issue that by breeding would potentially be passed on to the pups thereby shortening their quality of life or lifespan? By doing this testing before the breeding, that would at least give you the satisfaction of knowing that you are starting off with healthy parents which should result in pups free of hip, elbow or eye problems.

For more information -
Hips / Elbows - www.offa.org
Eyes - www.offa.org/eyes

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

The whole "reputable breeder" thing is akin to an "honorable senator"... some may be, but hard to tell which are which and which are not.

By the way - where does one buy there "reputable breeder" card from anyway??? Or how does one join this club???

I'd guess it is by moving up from being a hobby breeder.

I know of a couple of breeders who have advertised in the past in OOD and have been mentioned on the forum here in positive posts which do things which aren't quite what you'd expect from a "reputable breeder" including getting suspended by the CKC.

Give the guy a break - 10 years from now he might be one of these "reputable breeders" we speak of.

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Any breeder that follows the code of ethics in the linkS provided below are "reputable breeders" and no, you don't have to be a member of a club to be an ethical breeder. It's not difficult to be aware that a breeder is ethical because that type of breeder is up front about everything they do and list the info on their site, or have the certificates readily available. That TYPE of breeder might be difficult to find however. There aren't a whole lot of them, at least not locally. Reputable breeders don't try to hide things. Just because a breeder is registered with CKC and posts about being a breeder on here doesn't automatically make them a reputable breeder. I guess some people would believe that though, as a lot of people do more research when buying a toaster than they do when buying a dog, sadly.

One of my dog's littermates had owners that separated and could no longer keep the dog. Unfortunately that dog couldn't go back to the breeder because she took her own life. Her mentor however (the person that showed her the ropes), who is a veteran COE breeder took that dog back and found a good home for it. The backyard breeder takes your money and after that you're on your own.

http://www.rrclubofcanada.org/code_ethics.html

http://www.grcc.net/?q=node/126

http://rottclub.ca/code-of-ethics/


Please read Dakots'a post. That pretty much says it all.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Evidently some posters think $1000 and a piece of paper will make a better dog owner.

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Geez I go to a club training picnic trial and all this goes in the garbage pail.

BBDog, I don't necessarily think that way at all. I do know though that modern science has helped us address some of the health issues currently found in various breeds.

WHy would we not want to avail ourselves to this information? After all having a long living and healthy dog is important to us all.

The piece of paper is important to many of us who are looking for an excellent animal that will be capable (most likely) of doing what we want it to do. It represents the breeding behind our dog and that's important.

I didn't jump on Deerslayer but offered to answer any questions he might have....in fact still will. If I think you are off base I will give you my best opinion based on many years training my dogs. You are free to choose to listen or disregard. I remember where I started and know that many others are at that point. I just know how I appreciated the help then from some folks.

I don't think we should argue about back yard breeders etc.......think we know enough about that by now. I think what's more important is to discuss/share information about training or health updates that several years ago we did not have. There have been some remarkable changes is many areas of dog ownership/training.

In the end what people decide will be their choice.

Feel free to contact me Deerslayer if you're not too browned off with some of this.

Regards,

krakadawn...my post wasn't directed at you. You have posted very helpful info.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Sorry couldnt resist making a crack to lighten the mood, its obvious we are all passionate about our dogs and i believe asking questions is a good thing.. carry on gentleman.

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Obviously too passionate in my case. I do mean well but don't seem to get it across that way.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

There are three ways to get a dog. Rescue, adopt, or buy from a breeder that follows a code of ethics. The rest are backyard breeders.

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Nothing makes your ignorance of this topic more clear than your post above.

Well said Jobbers.

To the OP. If you want to breed your Lab I would strongly suggest you listen to, and take the advice of people like Dakota and Kraka.


Proper breeding with the goal of truly bettering a breed is not for the the faint of heart.