What is a good gun dog ?

This always has me thinking. I read posts all the time about guys talking about how well their dog works and how great a hunter they are. What level of training would do to satisfy your hunting needs. This can go for retrievers flushers or pointers any sporting dog for that matter.
I truly enjoy watching a well trained dog work . No matter what breed or purpose

Seeing posts like turkey rookies really makes being involved in retrievers worth while.

This thread is not ment to be one is better than another.
Just what level of training is suitable for you
.

While I think everyone likes to "progress" I am happy with the level Maddy is at. At home she is obedient, loving, and most importantly gentle and patient with our boys. In the field, she is steady, retrieves both ducks and geese, water or land, and does quite well on the blind retrieves, somedays needing a pointer, or two, or three in the right direction.

Does she get it perfect everytime? absolutely not, but she does go out and get them.

For the level of hunting that I do, I think that is all I could of hoped for / wanted. Friends and family enjoy hunting over her and watching her as well.

Would she compare to more advanced dogs, or on a bigger stage, I don't think so, with more training, from someone who knows what they are doing, maybe she could advance further.

We will never stop training, and learning, but she is everything I hoped she would be as is.

There isn't much more reward that comes from our bond as a team then her coming back with a duck or a goose dropping it at my feet, soaking me with a shake of her fur and a slobbery kiss as she waits for her reward.

For the type of hunting that I do, a Steady retriever is nice to have. I've had both steady and crazy when the guns are going off. Honestly, neither has had a big impact on the success of a hunt, overall. Steady is nice to have, but watching an amazing recovery of a bird wether a marked fall, or a blind is what makes a hunt for me. I want a dog that WANTS the birds in a big way. Getting that bird that would otherwise be lost, and doing it as quick as possible, is the definition of greatness to me. Handling is all important in almost every type of hunt. A smart upland hunter with a lot of "hunt" is also a very big impact on the quality of an upland hunt.

I'm with labber. Steadiness is paramount. Aside from that which is trained, good nose, good eyes, and a dog that handles well and not too independent - needs to be a team player.

What people expect is going to be heavily biased by what dogs they have already hunted with... If you haven't hunted with a well trained dog, you won't know what is even possible.
- lots of drive (anything else you can train in, but that has to be there to start with)
- good marking
- obedient
- hunts with you, not on there own (part of being obedient)
- steady (part of being obedient)

My old bird dog (ESS) has had a three strokes now - he's blind, deaf and going on brain dead. He can still wag his tail, though. If / when he gets replaced it will likely be with a papered ESS that is professionally trained. I hunt upland and shoot ducks off small beaver ponds. If he's trained for upland and can swim - that's good enough for my duck hunting.

Credit to Jim Carmichael

A grouse dog is a specialist that God himself gifted to have an exceptional nose,
superior intelligence and relentless heart. This pup typically comes from generations
of dogs with the same/similar attributes. Keep in mind that, these are only the
raw materials. This is a starting point rather than the destination point.
Next, you need to make sure pup is brought along properly, from youthful
exuberance to productive team member. He needs to be brought up to know
grouse-like cover through the eyes first. He must know from experience where
to expend energy towards likely objectives - where grouse are likely to be. This-in-turn
is followed by utilizing ole-factory senses honed over generations to narrow down the
chances for success. This is when that superior nose comes into play - a nose that is
functional even at a highly elevated rate of ground speed - a ground speed that mesmerizes
and leaves a grouse stone solid in it's tracks as if enchanted by the Medusa! At this
point, your dog must know to hold steady - no stepping closer - no relocating - no second
guessing. The spell is cast where dog and grouse remain fixed in time for that narrow moment.
As you approach, the grouse's nerves are tested. It begins to negotiate it's best escape
options then deploys them. The dog remains steady trusting that you will do your part in
providing the ultimate reward - a trophy grouse (every grouse is a trophy in my books)
for the retrieve!

What many folk call grouse dogs more-often-than-not will find birds on occasion. Most times,
it is a flush that immediately ensues. You may in fact get an opportunity for the occasional
shot however this is NOT a grouse dog, by my definition. Grouse dogs seem to just have a
propensity for nailing grouse down and they to do it often, as opposed to "most times".
Traditionally, fine grouse dogs came/come from setter breeding, although I had a true
grouse dog in a little Brittany some years ago. She was very special.

I must say that you need to hunt over a setter to actually appreciate the elegant grace
that is but one attribute in this breed. The dovetailing of unrelenting fury and almost
liquified flowing grace this breed displays in negotiating the nastiest of cover is truly
something to behold. Also typical of the breed, in response to your stated preference, is
the fact that they go from fierce gladiators in their quest for birds, to wonderfully
biddable family companions in the home. There is this regal aura this is part-and-parcel
of the setter. They are so gentle and happy to be in your presence without the need to
harass, whine, and destroy! This transition is part and parcel of what makes setters
the best of both worlds, in my opinion. I'm sure there are individual dogs out there
that could fit this bill. They are more-often-than-not, the exception to the rule.

I prefer a hunting dog that won't eat my lunch and then fart proscuitto all the way home in the car.

In all seriousness, I have had the honor to hunt over a fully broke English Setter and it is an impressive thing. My little buddy will never atain that level primarily because of my lack of expertise not his capacity but I'm happy with my dog also.

I am a hound guy so all I want for my dogs is drive to hunt ,,must be able to run all day ,good with kids in the house and not be gun shy .I had my hound out well sighting in my turkey gun and she was having as much fun as I was ,heck I had to wait for her to get out from in front of the target so I could shoot ,,she would sit right beside me as I shot about 20 rounds of turkey ammo ,,the most important thing for me is drive thy got to want to run and hunt in all weather ,,Dutch

A good gun dog is a dog that enriches your life (any breed) with scintillating memories afield that are not only etched forever in our minds but also humble you - performances that actually have you trying to recreate them, then followed by, "I don't believe what just happened....naw...just coincidence...naw....she couldn't have reasoned that..." Then she/he does it again and again.
A dog that ires you in where she is running to the point where in frustration, you relent and just chalk it up to a bad day, until she finds yet another grouse!
A dog that refuses to listen when you have a downed bird well marked. She just won't take your direction/support - then comes back with your bird (by-the-way, NOT where you had it marked smart guy!).
A dog that comes to you at the end of a day of making such memories all cut up, with a slight limp, blood dripping from her tail, proving that although she is relentless and shows signs of aging, gives no less than all she has. Then, looks embarrassed as she tries to negotiate that now humungous jump into the truck. The same dog that, when she is not hunting birds, is ALMOST as happy just lying by your side.
No single breed regardless of expertise, colour, or size has a "buy" on this.
You never know. Yours could be the next one. If it is, you only know the magnitude of what you had, just how lucky you were, what a contribution they make to your very existence, once they are gone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ugo

A good gun dog is a dog that enriches your life (any breed) with scintillating memories afield that are not only etched forever in our minds but also humble you - performances that actually have you trying to recreate them, then followed by, "I don't believe what just happened....naw...just coincidence...naw....she couldn't have reasoned that..." Then she/he does it again and again.
A dog that ires you in where she is running to the point where in frustration, you relent and just chalk it up to a bad day, until she finds yet another grouse!
A dog that refuses to listen when you have a downed bird well marked. She just won't take your direction/support - then comes back with your bird (by-the-way, NOT where you had it marked smart guy!).
A dog that comes to you at the end of a day of making such memories all cut up, with a slight limp, blood dripping from her tail, proving that although she is relentless and shows signs of aging, gives no less than all she has. Then, looks embarrassed as she tries to negotiate that now humungous jump into the truck. The same dog that, when she is not hunting birds, is ALMOST as happy just lying by your side.
No single breed regardless of expertise, colour, or size has a "buy" on this.
You never know. Yours could be the next one. If it is, you only know the magnitude of what you had, just how lucky you were, what a contribution they make to your very existence, once they are gone.

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That "almost" brought a tear to my eye Ugo. I have zero experience with any of this but I sure liked your post. Nicely said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ugo

A dog that refuses to listen when you have a downed bird well marked. She just won't take your direction/support - then comes back with your bird (by-the-way, NOT where you had it marked smart guy!).

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Been there, more than once!

The dog should be steady, biddable, and should handle the retrieving situations that confound a half-trained dog, like blinds, obstacle crossings, etc.

But all that is just a matter of training, and it isn't what makes a really good dog, in my view. A really good dog needs to have desire and intelligence, because the difference between dog training and robotics is that dogs have to learn some things that you can't teach. And it's when the dog has learned those things that you have a really good dog.

Nothing pleases me more than watching a dog do something that it can only have learned by applying its own intelligence to the training it already has.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

I prefer a hunting dog that won't eat my lunch and then fart proscuitto all the way home in the car.

.

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Thought that was what a hunting partner is for.........might explain why I've not received a hunting invite.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Credit to Jim Carmichael

A grouse dog is a specialist that God himself gifted to have an exceptional nose,
superior intelligence and relentless heart. This pup typically comes from generations
of dogs with the same/similar attributes. Keep in mind that, these are only the
raw materials. This is a starting point rather than the destination point.
Next, you need to make sure pup is brought along properly, from youthful
exuberance to productive team member. He needs to be brought up to know
grouse-like cover through the eyes first. He must know from experience where
to expend energy towards likely objectives - where grouse are likely to be. This-in-turn
is followed by utilizing ole-factory senses honed over generations to narrow down the
chances for success. This is when that superior nose comes into play - a nose that is
functional even at a highly elevated rate of ground speed - a ground speed that mesmerizes
and leaves a grouse stone solid in it's tracks as if enchanted by the Medusa! At this
point, your dog must know to hold steady - no stepping closer - no relocating - no second
guessing. The spell is cast where dog and grouse remain fixed in time for that narrow moment.
As you approach, the grouse's nerves are tested. It begins to negotiate it's best escape
options then deploys them. The dog remains steady trusting that you will do your part in
providing the ultimate reward - a trophy grouse (every grouse is a trophy in my books)
for the retrieve!

What many folk call grouse dogs more-often-than-not will find birds on occasion. Most times,
it is a flush that immediately ensues. You may in fact get an opportunity for the occasional
shot however this is NOT a grouse dog, by my definition. Grouse dogs seem to just have a
propensity for nailing grouse down and they to do it often, as opposed to "most times".
Traditionally, fine grouse dogs came/come from setter breeding, although I had a true
grouse dog in a little Brittany some years ago. She was very special.

I must say that you need to hunt over a setter to actually appreciate the elegant grace
that is but one attribute in this breed. The dovetailing of unrelenting fury and almost
liquified flowing grace this breed displays in negotiating the nastiest of cover is truly
something to behold. Also typical of the breed, in response to your stated preference, is
the fact that they go from fierce gladiators in their quest for birds, to wonderfully
biddable family companions in the home. There is this regal aura this is part-and-parcel
of the setter. They are so gentle and happy to be in your presence without the need to
harass, whine, and destroy! This transition is part and parcel of what makes setters
the best of both worlds, in my opinion. I'm sure there are individual dogs out there
that could fit this bill. They are more-often-than-not, the exception to the rule.

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Ya but sometimes a mutt does well too.
Attachment 29319

"Must say that you need to hunt over a setter to actually appreciate the elegant grace
that is but one attribute in this breed. The dovetailing of unrelenting fury and almost
liquified flowing grace this breed displays in negotiating the nastiest of cover is truly
something to behold. Also typical of the breed, in response to your stated preference, is
the fact that they go from fierce gladiators in their quest for birds, to wonderfully
biddable family companions in the home. There is this regal aura this is part-and-parcel
of the setter. They are so gentle and happy to be in your presence without the need to
harass, whine, and destroy! This transition is part and parcel of what makes setters
the best of both worlds, in my opinion. " Jim Carmichael

That is so true.

Chris, after having some time to reflect on your own question, I am curious, what it means to you?

Jason to me a good gun dog has heart doesn't give up. Should be smart enough to think its way through tough situations. Wants to be part of a team. Enjoys a truck ride as much as a good hunt. I personally prefer a dog with higher drive that can learn to settle in the blind. I have bèen lucky to have had a couple if these my newest cal and the sire of Maddy. Tundra at 13 gets excited to get in the truck. He is out in the truck as i am writing this while out for breakfast before we head out training the young dogs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 3 black dogs

Jason to me a good gun dog has heart doesn't give up. Should be smart enough to think its way through tough situations. Wants to be part of a team. Enjoys a truck ride as much as a good hunt. I personally prefer a dog with higher drive that can learn to settle in the blind. I have bèen lucky to have had a couple if these my newest cal and the sire of Maddy. Tundra at 13 gets excited to get in the truck. He is out in the truck as i am writing this while out for breakfast before we head out training the young dogs.

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With age comes wisdom. Tundra knows to just enjoy the comfortable truck. And someone will bring him a treat back :)

Have a great session today.

There's some awesome sentiments in this post. I suspect that my little brittany will be my once in a lifetime dog. She's the most affectionate thing in the house. My wife says she's her favourite dog ever.

As a hunting partner she's everything I need. She's not at all highly trained but she has a ton of natural ability. She has a great nose and great heart and a great brain. She knows she's part of a team. She naturally pays attention to where I am. Most of the time, she takes direction very well and the ecollar is a god send for those once in a while lapses.

She holds on birds like a statue. We have taken many birds where I had to walk 300 yards to get to her (thank you beeper!).

She certainly is not close to perfect. She can often go too fast and doesn't work as thoroughly as she should. But she can hammer onto point from a dead run. She has never been one to retrieve. She always finds the bird but once she has a bird in her mouth, she's "cracked right out of her mind". Her eyes dialate and she just sits there holding the bird. As she's much easier to find, beeper and all, this is good enough for me. I guess it's a good job that I don't hunt ducks - although if I did, I obviously would have worked much harder on retrieving...lol. She does love the water and swims like a fish.

She makes me smile on a daily, if not hourly basis.

Good question!


To me a good gun dog must above all else;

-obedience (fetches when told to fetch, sits when told to sit, stays when told to stay....with almost no exceptions)

-have great desire (a gun dog must have desire to please and desire to pursue game)

-be cooperative (a gun dog must hunt for the gun, not for itself)

-possess an exceptional nose (a hunting dog without a great nose is just a companion dog out for a walk in the woods)

-sound physical form (without the muscle and bones to do the job...well you get the rest)

In my mind, a dog that possess all of the above attributes can be trained to be a fantastic gun dog, whether for the woods or the blind.