Khadr released

The guy who was an enemy combatant/terrorist who was captured after killing a US army medic in a vicious battle has been released. I clearly remember seeing a documentary of his mother and sisters cursing and mocking Canada and stating we all deserved to die yet they chose to live here and benefit from our generosity.
The left now have a new poster boy for political correctness and somehow the fact he was captured in a foreign country by Americans after murdering an American doctor, they now blame Harper and have publicly called him an anti Muslim bigot.
I doubt he will but I tell ya if it was me I would drag this slandering idiot of a lawyer into court and sue him into poverty.
As for Khadr, I would have tossed him a grenade and sent him to meet his chosen god. I consider these terrorists to be inhuman and should just be wiped off the planet.

Hope Omar enjoys the protection of C 51.

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Originally Posted by terrym

The guy who was an enemy combatant/terrorist who was captured after killing a US army medic in a vicious battle has been released. I clearly remember seeing a documentary of his mother and sisters cursing and mocking Canada and stating we all deserved to die yet they chose to live here and benefit from our generosity.
The left now have a new poster boy for political correctness and somehow the fact he was captured in a foreign country by Americans after murdering an American doctor, they now blame Harper and have publicly called him an anti Muslim bigot.
I doubt he will but I tell ya if it was me I would drag this slandering idiot of a lawyer into court and sue him into poverty.
As for Khadr, I would have tossed him a grenade and sent him to meet his chosen god. I consider these terrorists to be inhuman and should just be wiped off the planet.

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I whole heartedly agree!, also send his family back to where they came from.

I might draw a “little” heat for this, but hear me out.

First let me say, he should not be out on bail (we should be honoring the conviction by the US) and secondly if he is to be freed, send him to the country he wants to fight for.

I was never “sure” about his arrest/conviction to begin with. Bad things happen in war and while I have zero qualms with him being held as a PoW…What he did, I’m not sure was a terrorist act, nor was it committed on US or Cdn soil. And because this war is still ongoing as a PoW he should be behind chicken wire, but afforded the treatment of any PoW.

I am sure many allies in times of war have done the exact same thing (and worse).
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His family imo should be in jail. Isn’t much of the stuff they have said (and more) hate speech?
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God help us if the left ever get behind the wheel Federally and even here in Ontario we can see the prices paid for

idealism.

He was a child soldier. Thinks arent exactly black and white here.

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I whole heartedly agree!, also send his family back to where they came from.

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Hes from Canada. He was born here and possesses citizenship. Should we send back everyone who commits a crime to their ancestral homeland?

Now, im not saying he shouldnt be punished for what he did. What exactly that punishment should be im not sure of. But the fact he was a kid when the crime happened needs to be taken into account.

I'm no lawyer but if somebody publicly called me an "anti Muslim bigot" I would be hiring the best and nastiest Bay street shark and going after Khadr's lawyer. I would sue him for everything I could get out of him but my guess is that is exactly what he is trying to trigger. Pretty well anything with Harper's name on it right now is DOA in our courts as they are using their power to enforce their own political ideologies. Just a pre election shot at the Conservatives by the left. Wynne has OPP protection and this guy has the Courts and judges. Canada is now a Banana republic with snow.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

He was a child soldier. Thinks arent exactly black and white here.



Hes from Canada. He was born here and possesses citizenship. Should we send back everyone who commits a crime to their ancestral homeland?

Now, im not saying he shouldnt be punished for what he did. What exactly that punishment should be im not sure of. But the fact he was a kid when the crime happened needs to be taken into account.

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Kids don't throw grenades and go into battle. At 15 he wasn't a kid anymore in that part of the world. They get married at puberty so our values don't mean anything to them. Also regardless of his citizenship he committed a crime in another sovereign country against another sovereign country and was captured and jailed by them. Not our fight and he should have never been brought back to Canada.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

He was a child soldier. Thinks arent exactly black and white here.



Hes from Canada. He was born here and possesses citizenship. Should we send back everyone who commits a crime to their ancestral homeland?

Now, im not saying he shouldnt be punished for what he did. What exactly that punishment should be im not sure of. But the fact he was a kid when the crime happened needs to be taken into account.

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Ok so he was born in Canada, so why was he over there fighting with a grenade in his hand? That is defently different than a Canadian with ancestral background doing a crime here in Canada. He wanted to defend his ancestral land then that's where he belongs. He is a TERRORIST plane and simple. This is not a case of rights as he gave up all his rights when he chose to cross the line. When someone chooses to take the rights of life from others then they also loose their rights. He should be held accountable for his actions to the highest courts and be dealt with as a terrorist that he is

Terry if our values don't apply to them (his age). How can we arrest/convict based on our values. Can't have it both ways.

That said, child soldier he may be. But if I was 14 and there were "enemy" combatants here in Ont.....

I still don't see how his actions are an act of terror. He threw a grenade and killed the enemy. Our guys do that all the time.

Both sides have "declared" war.
Imo he's a PoW for sure. The rest, I'm not so sure

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Originally Posted by terrym

Kids don't throw grenades and go into battle. At 15 he wasn't a kid anymore in that part of the world. They get married at puberty so our values don't mean anything to them. Also regardless of his citizenship he committed a crime in another sovereign country against another sovereign country and was captured and jailed by them. Not our fight and he should have never been brought back to Canada.

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He should just never been brought back to anywhere.. They pickup their own dead..if you know what I mean. Funny thing( I don't mean HA HA funny ) rats will clean up their own dead too.

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Originally Posted by JBen

Terry if our values don't apply to them (his age). How can we arrest/convict based on our values. Can't have it both ways.

e

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"WE" didn't arrest or convict him. It happened in an "other" country so we have no jurisdiction. Our values and laws reflect our society. That society not only disagrees with our values but are actively trying to overthrow it to bring in a barbaric society. They think nothing of killing, torturing an raping women and children.
The first mistake made was not killing every damned one in that battle. Khadr should have died right there. The next one was getting involved at all. He should have never been allowed back into Canada. Think of the money wasted in court costs and incarceration for that savage. Yes I mean SAVAGE.

Barking up the wrong tree.

We have declared war on Terrorism. They have declared war on us.

Our troops are there in an armed capacity. Not so different than our troops were in Normandy.

Whether "we" like it or not, in their eyes we the enemy, and invaders.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Kids don't throw grenades and go into battle. At 15 he wasn't a kid anymore in that part of the world. They get married at puberty so our values don't mean anything to them. Also regardless of his citizenship he committed a crime in another sovereign country against another sovereign country and was captured and jailed by them. Not our fight and he should have never been brought back to Canada.

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What? Child soldiers certainly throw grenades and go into battle. Thats the point, they're children manipulated into fighting by those they trust.

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Originally Posted by gooseman

ok so he was born in canada, so why was he over there fighting with a grenade in his hand? That is defently different than a canadian with ancestral background doing a crime here in canada. He wanted to defend his ancestral land then that's where he belongs. He is a terrorist plane and simple. This is not a case of rights as he gave up all his rights when he chose to cross the line. When someone chooses to take the rights of life from others then they also loose their rights. He should be held accountable for his actions to the highest courts and be dealt with as a terrorist that he is

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He was a child when he committed the crime. Its not "plain and simple". Anything but.

Did you ever hear their parents on TV??? terrorist for sure.

Has he renounced his radical view of Islam ? Has he renounced his parents? Unless he does he should never see the lite of day again.

The comments in the Star today are beyond pathetic. God help us if trudough wins.

As of right now, I agree with the position of JBen and generally with the minutia that blasted_saber is trying to add to the conversation.

My question is this, what was he doing over there? He went there to fight! He was not there to visit or on vacation he went to help a terrorist group plain and simple. Even at that age he had a choice he could have left the airport before he left Canada and not went over, sorry but no sympathy here. Is it right to send our troops over there? I think it is, they are killing innocent people because of religion and faiths. Not only killing but mass killings, can we as a so called civilized country ignore this? We don't look at life the same way as they do. We cherish what we have and our family. We cry when someone dies, we have dreams and goals in life. They see life as something else and take joy in taking others life. I just can't see how this young man has changed in 12 yrs. still a terrorist

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Originally Posted by gooseman

My question is this, what was he doing over there? He went there to fight! He was not there to visit or on vacation he went to help a terrorist group plain and simple. Even at that age he had a choice he could have left the airport before he left Canada and not went over, sorry but no sympathy here. Is it right to send our troops over there? I think it is, they are killing innocent people because of religion and faiths. Not only killing but mass killings, can we as a so called civilized country ignore this? We don't look at life the same way as they do. We cherish what we have and our family. We cry when someone dies, we have dreams and goals in life. They see life as something else and take joy in taking others life. I just can't see how this young man has changed in 12 yrs. still a terrorist

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He went there because his family moved there. Most young teenagers I know go where their parents tell them go. I also highly doubt they told him they were leaving Canada to go and wage war on the West.

I also dont know how you can possibly know if hes changed or not. What I do know is hes old enough now to make his own decisions. I think you are judging him based on his age NOW for the actions he committed as a kid.

Again, im not saying he shouldnt be punished. But I dont know what that punishment should be. This is a very complex, tricky, case.

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Originally Posted by JBen

I still don't see how his actions are an act of terror. He threw a grenade and killed the enemy. Our guys do that all the time.

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I going to try and keep this polite. When a bank robber shoots a policeman responding to the crime, is he killing the enemy?

And are you saying this criminal trash and our military are the same?

This killer is as much Canadian as Osama was.

So nice to see all the psychologists on this forum trying to explain how the mindset of a 15 year old who was indoctrinated by his radicalized father is akin to a fully hardened ISIS terrorist.

The kid, and yes he is one, was in a firefight with who was described to him as the enemy. He killed someone in that firefight and was then captured as a POW. He has rights under the Geneva convention as a POW, especially as it applies to child soldiers.

Clearly the problem of child soldiers is no longer an "African" issue, if I can even call it that because at the end of WW2 most of the frontline fighters for Germany were no more than 13 or 14 years of age; should we have incarcerated them after the war? Better yet, send them back to Germany instead of offering them a chance at living a life that they would never have a chance to in the country they were in during the war?

So the family dislikes Canada; how many of us on this forum dislike what Canada has become and come in here ranting and raving against things that don't sit well with us? If they haven't attempted to blow up anything, then their actions, words, and rants are no more different than the ones posted on here for the world to see.

The Canadian Forces mandate is one to enforce the missions prescribed by the sitting politicians at the end of the day; the Conservatives knew that back in 2002 Canada signed on to an international treaty aimed at rehabilitating child soldiers. If they wanted this overturned, there is absolutely no reason they couldn't have removed the country from that policy. They didn't, because they know that the issue of child soldiers isn't one that can be handled lightly and that the ramifications surrounding this issue are global in scope.

This will always be a contentious issue, and not one that can be solved nor will there ever be a plateau by which to measure each case as they are all different.

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Originally Posted by gooseman

My question is this, what was he doing over there? He went there to fight! He was not there to visit or on vacation he went to help a terrorist group plain and simple. Even at that age he had a choice he could have left the airport before he left Canada and not went over, sorry but no sympathy here. Is it right to send our troops over there? I think it is, they are killing innocent people because of religion and faiths. Not only killing but mass killings, can we as a so called civilized country ignore this? We don't look at life the same way as they do. We cherish what we have and our family. We cry when someone dies, we have dreams and goals in life. They see life as something else and take joy in taking others life. I just can't see how this young man has changed in 12 yrs. still a terrorist

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Agree 100%

At 15 years of age and being born in Canada he was exposed to the same values and education as other 15 yr olds in school and the community. It is truly bizzare that an Al Quaida terrorist/killer is actually considered a victim. My guess is the wife of the US Army Medic he killed would disagree though, never mind the families of the thousands who perished in the 9/11 attacks. Yep, Harper is a monster and Bin Laden and his followers are just victims and misunderstood.

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Originally Posted by terrym

At 15 years of age and being born in Canada he was exposed to the same values and education as other 15 yr olds in school and the community. .

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Unless his parents took him out of classes in protest of the schools teaching curriculum that does not reflect the values of their family... :ninja: :tongue: ;)

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Originally Posted by Rugger

Unless his parents took him out of classes in protest of the schools teaching curriculum that does not reflect the values of their family... :ninja: :tongue: ;)

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Are you saying the Khadr family is Homophobic........:silly: Wait a minute, didn't the mother rant about that also when interviewed? This little tidbit might enlighten some on the Khadr family:
http://www.cp24.com/news/a-quick-ske...amily-1.977121

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Originally Posted by Angus

I going to try and keep this polite. When a bank robber shoots a policeman responding to the crime, is he killing the enemy?

And are you saying this criminal trash and our military are the same?

This killer is as much Canadian as Osama was.

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Thats quite the leap Angus bravo, perhaps maybe some lessons in life, forum rules, expressing of thoughts/opinions are in order for you.

No what I’m saying is
if during war A throws a granade and kills B or if B throws a grenade and kills A.
Do you see any difference?

And please don’t be naive and think our troops don’t/haven’t done same. How many innocents have our bombs killed. WHy aren’t hundreds of our guys being charged as terrorist and acts of terrorism.

Perhaps you might care to explain how throwing a grenade at an enemy combatant is an act of terrorism

Hey I may not know all the facts but I know enough to say...we would be better off with this guy in jail.... No sympathy from me...

one other thought on this.

Im sure if US troops “invaded" Canada where we would be ungunned, out manned, out tanked, out everything.

Would we/you Angus line up in battle formation and have it…..Or would we become “terrorist”, guerilla’s, not unlike Omar in his actions.

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Originally Posted by terrym

At 15 years of age and being born in Canada he was exposed to the same values and education as other 15 yr olds in school and the community. It is truly bizzare that an Al Quaida terrorist/killer is actually considered a victim. My guess is the wife of the US Army Medic he killed would disagree though, never mind the families of the thousands who perished in the 9/11 attacks. Yep, Harper is a monster and Bin Laden and his followers are just victims and misunderstood.

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Terrym, nowhere did I state that Harper was or is a monster and that Bin Laden is just a victim and misunderstood.

There is a massive difference between a grown man joining Al Qaeda vs a 15 year old who is forced to by his parents.

Canada, the USA, and other countries hold themselves to a higher standard; we always have, and examples such as this is the reason why.

And for those of you who think that our own military past is all glowing, I'm sure you'll recall the Somalia Affair. Thankfully we have higher standards now and greater safeguards to prevent things such as this from happening again.

Of course it's sad when people die in combat, and of course there is going to be ill will towards whomever killed a loved one; that's a natural reaction. But if we followed that natural reaction of an eye for an eye then where would we be as a society? Of course, if we're at war, it's different, but even the war waged against Al Qaida and now ISIS is completely unlike any warfare that has ever occurred in the past.

Regardless of how all of this plays out, there is no doubt that Khadr was a kid when all of this went down. You can't compare the mind of a 15 year old to that of a man in his late 20s who, by the way, is having no contact with his family whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Attila

Regardless of how all of this plays out, there is no doubt that Khadr was a kid when all of this went down. You can't compare the mind of a 15 year old to that of a man in his late 20s who, by the way, is having no contact with his family whatsoever.

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That's were I disagree.
Arbitrary age designations of behaviour in based in law are often based on nothing but the biases of the judges who made those rules.
Example: In the USA drink alcohol age is 21 but you can join the military and kill the enemy (people) at 18. WTF!!!

Age of consent in Canada is often 18. I disagree with that arbitrary number.
In my own profession I will deal with/treat anyone I consider competent under 18 ( I get a bit squeamish around 12-13 years and under).

I've dealt with more than enough 15 year olds professionally (and 40 years ago) that I do not consider any of them "children".
The law is faulty. 15 year old are very capable of making their own decisions and therefore accepting consequences.

So for poor, dear Omar:
He is not a terrorist.
He is soldier, like any other. NOT a child soldier.
But his side was pro-Al Quaida/Afgan/Islam, anti-western/freedom.

I am no lawyer but it feels like he is traitor not a terrorist.

So treat him like the traitor he is.

It surprises me sometimes (nice post earlier Atillia that touches on what Im about to say), that “we” have higher standards, better values. Yet lose sight of that.

As I said right from the get go, bad things happen in war. If Omar were to spend the rest of his life behind bars (Chicken wire) I wouldn’t shed a tear. He made his bed, he can lie in it.

I don’t see him as being a child soldier, he was old enough to make his own choice. Had he been much younger, yes I would argue he was a child soldier. Arbitrary lines on these things don’t always work.

Is a 15 year gangsta who (to use Angus’s analogy) kills a person during a mugging, bank robbery, drive by…really a “young offender”?
Not in my books.

If its appropriate and ok, to teach 7 year old some of the more controversial sexual topics…Because these days, kids mature a lot younger…
*****

Do we hang people for acts they “might” commit.

IMO Omar was a Guerilla fighter. Not unlike any North Vietnamese, not unlike millions of others. One persons guerrilla fighter, is the next persons terrorist.

And I would have a hard time believing anyone here, who would claim that if for whatever reason US troops ended up inside Canada in an armed capacity. They’d have the stones to fight openly, slug it out honorably in the field of battle.

Id become a “terrorist”. At least that’s what I’d be labelled by “them”.


Had Omar committed some act here at home. Terrorist
Had Omar committed some act there in the US. Terrorist
No, he went to “fight” there. And the act he committed happens all the time by everyone.

Why aren’t our troops tried as terrorist when our bombs kills innocents?
It’s war and bad things happen.
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So for poor, dear Omar:

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He is not a terrorist.
He is soldier, like any other. NOT a child soldier.
But his side was pro-Al Quaida/Afgan/Islam, anti-western/freedom.

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So people are we different from them?
Do we hold ourselves to higher standards?
Standards of equality and fairness?
Freedom, freedom to “choose"? Maybe choose to fight for the other side?

Should we start charging our troops with acts of terrorism anytime theres collateral damage?
Cant have it both ways. We are better aren’t we?
Or do we pick and choose only when its convenient.

Traitor, PoW (the war is still on going) Id be ok keeping him locked up

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Originally Posted by JBen

one other thought on this.

Im sure if US troops “invaded" Canada where we would be ungunned, out manned, out tanked, out everything.

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Nobody invaded Afghanistan.
But if AQ grows in strength here and our government asks for help from the US, and as a criminal AQ member I killed a US soldier, then yes I would be a terrorist.
Simple enough?

Some of you are using the term "POW"

Careful with that term.

Look into POW vs. Detainee and the terminology between the two.

Might help or hinder some of these arguments.

Angus you are entitled to your opinion, others are entitled to theirs.
Theres a difference between having your opinion and attacking others. Forum rules are quite clear on this. Id rather not see this get locked but I won’t stand for it, never have never will. In some ways jumping out of the bushes and taking swipes (against rules)…Kind like a terrorist isn’t it ;)

“Simple” enough for you” or are the subtleties of debate and discussion to complex for you?
oh and incase you need a refresher go back and read the post that had you swinging

“Im not sure if what he did was a terrorist act” or something to that effect. Your doing a wonderful job convincing me or others of your point of view :)
Not.
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Whether “we” like it or not, there is a struggle elsewhere.
Che Guevera was a terrorist in some peoples eyes, a freedom fighter in others.
I’m sure many in Nazi Germany considered the French resistance “terrorist”. To us, hero’s.

Ps incase its too complex for you, one reason they hate “us” is because “we” are always sticking our noses where they don’t belong.

If you want a “what if”, lets say Quebec separates and it comes to bloodshed and for whatever reason US troops end up in there/with them. I know you wouldn’t have the stones to fight honorably against them. Does that make you a terrorist if you lob a grenade and kill one?

Now incase it’s too complex for you, don’t take that as me meaning I am against the “war” on terror. Or that I have any sympathy at all for those who for what ever reason choose their side. I don’t.

Once again, explain how throwing a grenade at an enemy combatant over there is an act of terror. Or defend why killing thousands with bombs (collateral damage) isn’t.

Lmao.
Obviously you don’t pay attention to many threads (I’d say more, but a) forum rules and b) I try not to judge people) on the topic, else you’d know where I stand.

That might be your weakest and least informed attempt at a swipe yet. Lol.

Let’s try it one last time and see if you have the ability piece it together.
Make some points representing your opinion rather than….
Use some logical arguments showing us low brows how it was a terrorist act.
Go back to school and learn the art of debate/discussion
Etc, etc, etc

The fact that you can’t grasp why to some
A is a terrorist or Guerrilla or freedom fighter depending on which side of the fence your on and who gets to write the history books..

Speaks volumes.

I guarantee you Angus if “they win” we are the criminals, we are the…
And the fact you can’t grasp that something “we” highly value
Freedom of choice
Self determination
The USs penchant for sticking their noses into things.
Is one (not the only) reason why they hate us.
Now would you take on the US in a “fair fight”?

Do recall Russia and Afghanistan to.
FUnny that at one time we saw them as Guerrillas/Freedom fighters in their fight against Russia.
Trained them
Armed them
Fought with them.
Guess now that we are the target changes things huh?