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We spend a lot of time Salmon Fishing Lake O in the summer. There are lots of times without activity for up to an hour and we often talk about bringing clays and a shotgun out on the boat with us to pass the time.
My question is, does anyone see anything wrong with this? It would mostly occur about 10 miles off shore (Blue Zone) with no other boats around and far enough away from the US Border that it shouldn't raise any concerns.
What are your thoughts?
Littering may be the least of your worries.
How is it different from shooting clays on land? The clays break down and the shells stay in the boat....
You could be rite . I was just thinking out loud. Perhaps ask the local Po Po for a definitive answer.
Not too sure. What I do know though....is I wanna' go fishin' with you guys........
Watch out for the Steve Irwin.
No Problem, get a derby ticket and you're welcome to come out :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
LOL yeah those guys are a little nuts! Don't think they are patrolling Lake O :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by last5oh_302
I think you would be in the clear. Discharge bi-laws wouldn't apply. If someone can shoot diving ducks outside of the bi-law zone, why can't you guys shoot clay pigeons?
That's pretty much what I was thinking. I'm not breaking any laws but still curious as to people's concerns or that I might be missing something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Doesn't a boat need to be anchored to shoot from??
Sounds like a great way to pass the time if it's all legal :thumbup:
The only fly in the ointment I can see is if you someone sees/hears you (another fishing boat, a container ship, etc) and reports what you are doing to the authorities, which no doubt will be reported incorrectly, which will prompt a visit by them.
I actually did ask a CO about this and he had no problem with it. I asked because I don't really have any open areas to shoot clays, but there is a lake very close by.
Not quite. If attached,the motor needs to be out of the water and all forward motion must be stopped,BUT,that only applies to hunting. Shooting clays off the boat is target shooting,not hunting,therefore the above doesn't apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodbender
Cool thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Watch your rod Jeff I can see it now "PULL" rod pops from the rigger and bang rod tip shot off :))
Captain Phillips may be a little uncomfortable with it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
The only thing I could see is littering in the water wit the plastic wads, don't need that.
You may get charged for using lead shot that will pollute the water, if you do decide to do it better use non toxic shot.
Buuuut aside from maybe the number of shots, how does that differ from shooting divers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman
jaycee,Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Isn't the lead shot rule only for hunting migratory birds?
Dyth
You very well could be legal and a ok in what you are thinking of doing and it actually sounds like a blast, I would be concerned of getting a visit from the marine unit and since they may not know the laws they may charge u for who knows what and let the judge decide. That sounds like a big hassle so I would confirm with the authorities before u try it. I would definately check first as there could be some crazy law regarding shipping routes or some other BS.
I definitely wouldn't be flying the skull and cross bones flag.
Ok Jeff, I'm done offering advice. :)
The motor does not need to be out of the water to hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
It's an offence to have a loaded firearm in a vessel, "in an area where wildlife is normally found".......are seagulls and cormorants .... wildlife ????? I am of the opinion it wouldn't be worth the hassle !!!!! If you get the right CO or LEO, it might not go well for you.
Loaded firearms in hunting areas
17. (1) A person who is in an area usually inhabited by wildlife or who is on the way to or from an area usually inhabited by wildlife shall not,
(a) have a loaded firearm in or on a conveyance or discharge a firearm from a conveyance, except if,
(i) the conveyance is a boat that is not a motorboat, or
(ii) the conveyance is a motorboat and the person is hunting migratory birds in accordance with the regulations under the Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994(Canada);
15-18 km off shore, birds are few and far between so I don't think this rule will apply. However, it's a nice find as I haven't seen it before. :-) Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I have had a few conversations with a local by-law officer around Christmas so I'll likely email him this scenario for his opinion. I imagine a few boxes of target loads and a case of clays would be rather self explanatory but I don't want to chance anything...
Jeff, I want to find out what you find out, sounds like a great idea..... something I might have to do as well if all checks out okay.... I like the outside the box thinking...WTG
This only pertains to hunting during an open season. Target shooting is not hunting or all target shooting would be illegal,no matter where it was conducted. Of course,we all know that's not the case. The only stipulation is that we must be,demonstrably,target shooting which is easy enough to do,simply by not wearing or being typically dressed for hunting and having targets (skeets or targets) on hand. Miles off shore shooting skeets,there simply is no charge which could be laid,under these circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I seems like fishing might just not be for you.
I could also see a Darwin Award happening, fish on... Bang!!!!
Wrong and wrong... Bang!Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
Agree.....to a point. The issue isn't the target shooting, the issue will be a loaded firearm in a boat, out in the lake (crown land). I certainly wouldn't say there is no way a charge could be laid ! I've seen too many bogus charges laid by MNRF.....as far as the section only applying during hunting season, try driving the back roads with a loaded shotgun or rifle, get stopped by CO or police for that matter.....let me know how that works out for you !!!If it was me, I'd get a written response from the MNRF, not this forum !Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
So, the question is "Can we have a loaded gun in a moving vehicle?"
A boat is a vehicle, and you can't troll for salmon without moving.
What if u anchored..
In this case you are probably good, but Jeff wants to fish too so trolling for salmon and do some shooting......Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
Folks cruising the back roads popping groundhogs and coyotes in the summer and grouse when in season is a time-honored tradition. As long as there's a PAL/hunting license and guns are unloaded while inside a vehicle,good to go....providing there's been permission granted from landowners. As far as having loaded firearms in a vessel,I'll certainly agree that there's a strong possibility it could be problematic because the Act reads "....vehicle or any other conveyance".Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
As long as you're not running the motor, you're good to go.
All guns are to be unloaded while in a motorized vehicle, except for chasing down cripples (Migratory bird act).
I don't see any other exceptions other than occupational allowances.
Yes that is what the law states, however it was the lead contamination in the water that started all the controversy on the use of lead, hence even lead sinkers were banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
The lead shot ingested by waterfowl that we hunt, also cormorants [deep divers] were found dead after ingesting fishing sinkers all these reasons led to the banning of lead shot for waterfowl.
A long time ago when all the controversy on lead shot was coming to a head, the Guelph Office of the MNR told me that the lead contamination in the water was also a large part of the issue as many cities get their drinking water from large bodies of water ie. the great lakes and also large rivers such as the Grand River.
Just to be on the safe side , I would not want to be discharging any lead shot into the Great Lakes .
You can't have a loaded firearm on any conveyance, motor running or not, motorized or not. The Act specifically exempts a motorboat when hunting migratory birds. The sticking point with the OP is the " where wildlife is present" part. If a LEO interprets being out on the lake as being a place where wildlife is present, a charge would likely be laid. I know 10 miles out in Erie, there are lots of gulls and cormorants. I'd imagine L. Ontario isn't any different.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
But those laws pertain to hunting and fishing. I don't think there is any law (maybe environmental) about skeet shooting. Jeff has asked the forum about the legality of this particular act. Morally would it be ok? Well, I don't think we want to start arguing that part until we figure out the original question.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
As for the reasoning behind banning lead for migratory bird hunting and fishing, it seems as if they went after the small potatoes. If lead levels in the water from the large lakes and large rivers were so bad, I surmise there are bigger contributors of lead than a few guys using lead for recreation purposes. I can see the stagnant ponds and marshes being more sensitive to lead levels as they don't have the water flow compared to rivers and lakes though. I do not doubt what the MNR said but I think if they really were serious about this lead issue then they would ban lead outright for hunting as lead shot from upland game can get into the water table from rain, spring run off, etc.
On a lighter note, at least we found something that will kill off the cormorants.....http://www.oodmag.com/community/images/icons/icon12.png
Dyth
If only one could use a quicker delivery methodQuote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Rick, a canoe is a conveyance that you can shoot from legally . You can't have a loaded gun in a boat that has a motor attached and is capable of being used as a means of propulsion.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
So technically I was wrong to say Jeff could shoot from the boat if the motors not running.
However, putting the motor inside the boat or removing the prop may not be practical, it would suffice the rule.
Agree.....however your second sentence is not entirely accurate. A boat that is not a motorboat is specifically exempted, as well as the motorboat while migratory bird hunting. The OP was not about a non-motorized boat, nor was it about duck hunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
Are cormorants protected ?
Unfortunately !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
I should have added to the above, that there are Environmental Laws that you can be charged with, which the fines for those are often much higher than hunting, fishing or fwca law infractions .Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Lead after all is considered very " toxic " that is why it is being done away with in it's once former many uses.
In the U.S. especially California, there are many Skeet /Trap and Sporting Clays shooting clubs that have made it mandatory to use non toxic shot for clay bird shooting for environmental reasons ,in the not to distant future you will be seeing it happening here in Canada
Oops. My badQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Wrong Jurisdiction, Wrong mandate, Wrong Enforcement officer. That's like seeing a proctologist for an earache.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffBondar
Lmao fishy,
Thanks for most of the comments and friendly "back and forth". I have thought of most of what's been mentioned but didn't think about some other stuff. I think there is a valid argument to be made that this is likely an illegal event if we are shooting with the boat under power.
It would be a fun way to pass the time on some of the slower days but not worth the possible consequences. For now we will stick to fishing.
Thanks for all the comments and insights.
Ask the local po po , they do it off moving cruise ships so whe knows.
Even the US Coast Guard has restrictions from live fire training on the Lake.
And personally, from many years as a weapons instructor, way too much chit that could go wrong 10 miles out.
I practice shooting from my kayak all the time. How else can you get better at hitting a fast moving target well sitting on your butt in a wobblely tube.
Now go ahead and tell me it's illegal. I know people will.
And no I do not normally sit in my kayak on the trap or skeet range to practice.
Oh,yeah,jump shooting ducks from a kayak or a canoe is an art in itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Fifty years ago boaters were told to break glass containers and perforate both ends of tin cans before throwing them overboard in deep water. Dad's 38 S&W worked great for this in Georgian Bay and the Trent system. Accepted and legal back then.....
Back then many things were acceptable , back in the 50's I used to take my shotgun and ammunition on my bicycle to high school, lock it all up in my locker and after school we would go hunting, sometimes even a teacher or two would join my buddy and I.:goodstuff:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat32rf
Try that in this day and age, swat team , handcuffs and jail plus school lock down is what you would see.:angry:
In the mid-70s, the middle school I went to (grades 7 and 8's - so 12 and 13 year olds) had a rifle range in the basement. School owned the rifles (.22 cooey's) but you had to bring your own ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Oh it's perfectly legal, and activities like this are why we have probate courts for those with no Wills ! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Our High School also had a range just previous to me being there , we used the range at the local Armories, how times have changed, and not necessarily for the betterQuote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche