This is what can happen when they take away your right to defend yourself - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/10...or-gun-permit/
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This is what can happen when they take away your right to defend yourself - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/10...or-gun-permit/
Its too bad the law couldn't keep him away. Condolences to the family, such a tragedy...
It's too bad a turd like that was aloud so much freedom.
What makes you think he would have obeyed any law? Only the victims are law abiding......Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
I think that was my point....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat32rf
So fortunate we do not live in the U.S
I don't quite get what you mean,YD. It doesn't matter which side of the border we live on. Court Restraining Orders are just as useless here as they are there,although,they still establish a paper trail for reasonable and probable grounds to fear for one's life as a defense for shooting the SOB.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
I cannot imagine living in a country where everyone can obtain a handgun gun to defend themselves even the mentally ill. Yes the SOB should be put away but putting another gun in someones hand will not solve the problem. She may have defended herself or he could of taken it from her and shot her with it. Another gun on the street if he wasn't captured. I just watched a program on how easy it is to obtain a gun in the U.S. It's mind blowing how easy it is and the hands they end up in.
I understand where you are coming from trimmer21 but I am looking beyond that ,the big picture. It is very unfortunate that the Court Restraining Order was not enforced in this case and person in charge should be investigated. If it is a matter of not enough officers on the street enforcing the law then hire more. If the mindset is having more citizens with guns to protect themselves and less officers then that is a recipe for disaster.
YD - everyone that buys a gun must go through a background check so if you ever committed a felony or have a record of mental illness you won't be able to get one - sure there are cases were someone who isn't dealing with a full deck ends up with a handgun but do you restrict everyone because this happens once in while - and as far as handguns - a nut could just as well get a hunting rifle and commit a crime
As far as a restraining order - all the criminal has to do is break it one time - the time he decides to kill the person who he is after - you can't do anything until that happens and then it is too late
Here is Pa. I can go over to Cabela's and purchase any handgun or rifle but before I leave the store with it I had to fill out a form and it is entered into the computer for a background check - if there is a problem then I don't get the gun - I can apply for a right to carry with the sheriff's office and it will take about 2 weeks for an approval - in fact if you fill out the form with wrong information you can get arrested right there - what happened in NJ wouldn't happen here
The right to defend yourself is a God given right that any free person should have - yes there are times bad things can happen but that is the price you pay for this right - freedom isn't always free - it has a price -
The program I saw based on the City of Philadelphia with the highest crime rate showed all the loop holes people are using to obtain a gun illegally and killing. It showed people without a mental disorder or criminal record purchasing guns and then reselling them on the streets for profit. These are not SOME cases but most cases. One mother new of 30 young men who were shot by illegal guns. Whole entire neighborhoods have been devastated for years by the illegal gun trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Your description of how it works in theory and the TV program I watched showed actual proof it doesn't work. I don't buy the right to defend yourself is a God given right. If a city or community or country truly cares about people and a system is in place to take care of them mind, body and spirit then we would not be having this conversation. God is about peace and love and yes from time to time we need to defend ourselves. When an entire city such as Philadelphia is completely broken at so many levels more guns is not the answer.
In a perfect world as you describe,no one could argue with you,BUT, this is NOT a perfect world. Bad things happen to good people by bad people. I believe that you're absolutely 100% wrong that we have no God given right to protect ourselves and,by extension,our families from those who would deliberately bring harm and death to us. If you were even remotely correct,how would you handle terrorists that have avowed to kill us all? Would you decide it would be better to simply have a conversation with them and tell them that they musn't do that? What would be your solution to the situation this lady and millions of others face every day? You appear to me to be a reasonably intelligent person,so,I won't insult your intellect with the assumption that you think they should sit back and hope for the best. That would NEVER happen if someone wanted to stay alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
This is is another occasion where I wish I had a like button.
There are lots of armed cowboys in the states and somehow the crime rate is way up there, go figure why!? If it was that easy to shot someone our cops wouldn't have to train that much. You know something went sideway when you need to carry a gun for your own safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Youhave been fed far too much propaganda!!
It's very clear you didn't see the program and if you had I would hope you would change your mind. What you are promoting they are already doing and it's NOT WORKING ! Of course it's not a perfect world but by adding more fuel to the fire such as more guns is supposed to help ????? What you are saying is all hope is gone strap on more guns folks because someone at sometime is gonna kill you. How sick is that ! If you think I am 100 % wrong well that's fine by me. And if you had seen the program you would have witnessed ex gang members working with the youth to prevent them from getting killed or ending up in prison. Even ex gang members know how easy it is the get guns through legal means. It's not rocket science. These ex gang members are not sitting back and realize the mistakes of the past and giving back to mentor young youth. They realize and understand how easy it is to obtain a firearm and shoot someone if someone looks at them the wrong way. It's all about the power guns give these young people and respect they think they are getting on the street out of fear.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
When you have entire neighborhoods with virtually no men all because of guns I would say a drastic change is needed. If that means stricter gun laws then so be. Don't worry about insulting my intellect because common sense has served me very well in life and one of the reasons I have done well in all aspects of life.
Or a buzzer!Quote:
Originally Posted by woody1948
Forget about the use of firearms[guns], you are telling us that you would stand by and not defend yourself if someone came around to you and started to beat the crap out of you either with their fists or a baseball bat , which by the way can kill you.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
I find that hard to believe, ?????
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Originally Posted by HaroldH
Really? OK,explain what YOU would do if someone was attacking you or your family if you only had seconds or a couple of minutes to react? I'm all ears. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
You need to keep in mind the gun laws in the U.S and Canada are worlds apart. That is why i choose to live in Canada but have had an opportunities to move to the U.S but i declined for safety of my family. Would i carry a gun around to protect my family ? No because i wouldn't live in a country that promotes carrying one because of the crime rate. Have I ever been in a situation where I needed to protect myself absolutely. Fortunately I have my red belt in Tae Kwon Do and was a very good wrestler. If a society is so bad that most of the people have to carry a weapon what does that say about the leaders of that society or country.
So trimmer21 and Jaycee lets hear your thoughts on how it should work since the current system in place isn't working. I'm all ears !
When you deal with this gun situation you need to look at the facts as they really are - we have a high crime rate - especially in the big cities because of a certain element in our society - youths who don't have fathers around the home to guide them - they grow up in gangs and shoot each other and something carry their crimes to others areas - if you had strict gun control these individuals would not obey the law and would get guns even through it was illegal - just like dope - its illegal yet people still get it - so what would strict gun laws do - stop the law bidding citizen from getting a gun to defend themselves from this criminal element - there are two choices - you yourself get a gun and be able to defend yourself or just do nothing and hope you don't become a target of one of these criminals
Just remember we have a lot bigger population down here then you do up in Canada and our society is made up of a lot different groups - some are somewhat more prone to violence - sad but true -
I was born and raised in a coal mining town in northeastern Pa. - the vast majority of people were hard working and good people - the crime rate was very small - the same town in all together different now because of the influx of others - many coming from the bigger cities because government put up housing for welfare recipients - now the town is overrun with crime and dope - shooting and robberies are common - the town is no where like is was when I lived there -
And YD let me tell you something - your red belt in Tae Kwon Do (whatever that is) and your wresting skills aren't worth a plug nickel when this little 5 ft 4 in guy pulls out a gun and puts a hole in you - big enough to see daylight -
Deflection is a typical liberal pro gun control tactic. Please answer my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
From what I have been reading, the situation down there HAS BEEN IMPROVING since they started issuing carrying permits. It will soon be the same as ours was back in the fifties and sixties WHEN WE COULD GET PERMITS.
Unfortunately our situation is deteriorating to match theirs.
I am a Conservative through and through shows how much you really know. Answer my question since i was the one bringing forward the proof based on actual facts from the program. Remember these are not my findings but of actual statistics. So again since you are of the intellect answer the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
You just pointed out exactly what the program was all about ! Thank you! The whole root of the problem and casting a society away and arming everyone with weapons ! It doesn't work because the problem is not going away and will continue generation after generation. If everyone was armed will gun deaths go down ? No if anything it will soar ! Just imagine if this cast away society had the same up bringing as you in a tiny coal mining town in northeastern Pa. Do you think the outcome would of been different for them ? Absolutely without a doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
And by the way JoePa I was asked how I would defend myself if attacked by something other than a gun. We don't have the same gun laws as you in Canada thank God and that is how I would defend myself. So your grasping at straws with your last statement if you were to actually read what was asked.
yellow dog! you said "I Don't Buy The Right To Defend Yourself Is A GOD GIVEN RIGHT ", then you go on telling us about your red belt in Tae Kwan Do and your wresting abilities, which just doesn't make any sense.
So are you now going against your belief that it is not your god given right to defend yourself ? as you are now talking for and against , which side are you on now ?
In my case . I will do anything that I have to protect my family and myself from any harm which someone may try to inflict upon us.
This I do believe is "my god given right " .
As I have said before , forget about the guns , knives , baseball bats and many other things can be used in an attack against you.
Where do you stand on an attack upon yourself or anyone else if there are no guns used , are you just going to stand by and take a beating or a deadly knifing ?
Proof? What "proof" are you alluding to? Please provide a link,so,we can examine what you allege is "proof. I learned along time ago that we can no longer believe anything we see on TV without researching who did the documentary,under what circumstances and for what purpose. Most of these so-called "gospel truth" articles have been exposed as being full of half truths,left wing "spin" and outright bald-faced lies. All information in them must be regarded with much skepticism for that reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
See what happens when the chips are down - too bad they waited so long - not gonna do them much good if these guys show up over the next couple days - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/14...istol-permits/
Are you all Canadian white people preaching to the condition of black people and all that american history has visited upon this issue ? Just trying to get some context here. Thanks.
I think it's normal reaction to intense fear. Americans apply for handgun carry permits. Canadians quietly keep shotguns or rifles handy. We don't need special permits for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa