Man found dead in Hamilton; attacked by dog

WoW you don't hear of this happening very often, a dog attack that causes death.

A Sarpei Fila mix that went for the guys throat..

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A man in his thirties is dead after he was attacked by a dog in central Hamilton on Wednesday night, despite desperate efforts by nearby residents to pull the dog off.


Burton Street residents said they had heard screams outside and rushed out to see what they could do. One hit the dog with a baseball bat to try to stop the attack.

Bert Stoner said he called 911 just after 11 p.m. ET.

"So I went outside — that's when I see the guy on the ground with the dog on top of him."

Stoner said he saw two or three people trying to get the dog off the man.

"He was hurt bad," he told CBC News.

"The dog was at the guy's throat," said another resident, Gerry Cassidy. He also said a neighbour who was watching the whole thing scrambled to find something to knock the dog off and came out with a bat.


Police said the attack happened at 11:15 p.m. when two men were walking a dog along the central Hamilton street.

"The dog began to attack one of the men and he collapsed," a police news release reads. "A passerby intervened and using a baseball bat, attempted to fend off the dog."

The man was pronounced dead at the scene. His official cause of death has not yet been determined, but a post-mortem is scheduled for Thursday.

Animal control has possession of the dog, police say. Residents have described it as a pit bull, but city spokeswoman Ann Lamanes says animal control can confirm it was not.

The dog is a Sharpei Fila mix and weighs about 20 Kilograms.

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/man-found-dead-on-hamilton-street-was-attacked-by-dog-1.3144393

Was reading this earlier. Funny how someone always says it was a pit bull type dog involved when something like this happens, even though it wasn't.

Tragic.

Depends on the 'mix'....it could very well be a 'pit bull' look a like.

Scary to think that a dog could/would do this randomly, I wonder if it was trained as an attack dog...

Well, after 11:00 pm on Barton St (I'm assuming they mean Barton and not Burton) in central Hamilton makes one wonder, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Was reading this earlier. Funny how someone always says it was a pit bull type dog involved when something like this happens, even though it wasn't.

Tragic.

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Well got to cut them some slack here. For the unfamiliar not a stretch to confuse the too. Both are Breed fighting dogs.

One bite in the throat area can sever a major artery and the victim can bleed out in less than a minute. Any one of us that hunt and happen to run into a Bear,Wolf or Coyote could suffer the same fate quite easily if conditions are right. I'm interested in hearing the rest of the story,though. I'll bet there's more to it than whats been reported.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

One bite in the throat area can sever a major artery and the victim can bleed out in less than a minute. Any one of us that hunt and happen to run into a Bear,Wolf or Coyote could suffer the same fate quite easily if conditions are right. I'm interested in hearing the rest of the story,though. I'll bet there's more to it than whats been reported.

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there usually is. That double murder in Woodbridge at a Cafe has since been proven to be an illegal gambling house. I googled that breed. Why the hell somebody would want one is bizzare. But again someone will say it wasn't........

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Originally Posted by terrym

there usually is. That double murder in Woodbridge at a Cafe has since been proven to be an illegal gambling house. I googled that breed. Why the hell somebody would want one is bizzare. But again someone will say it wasn't........

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If you google fatal dog attacks and accidents,you'll find that they're not usually breed-specific. It can happen anywhere and anytime.

6 year old boy who climbed over his neighbour's fence killed by a dog

http://www.timescolonist.com/6-year-...lina-1.1993380

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

If you google fatal dog attacks and accidents,you'll find that they're not usually breed-specific. It can happen anywhere and anytime.

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That is very, very, very untrue. Dog attacks are not breed specific. FATAL dog attacks are very, very, very breed specific.

Have a look at the chart on the bottom of page 2.

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreation...ogbreeds-a.pdf

You can also double check this with the fatal dog attacks Wikipedia page.

As far as anywhere and anytime - that's a pretty silly assertion. Let me know if you ever hear about a fatal beagle attack.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

6 year old boy who climbed over his neighbour's fence killed by a dog

http://www.timescolonist.com/6-year-...lina-1.1993380

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Once again, the breed is predictable.
http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-sta...ities-2014.php
According to this link, Pitbull account for less than 10% of the dog population but also account for 65% of fatalities.

This forum certainly has an abundance dog attack and bear rehabilitation experts!

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

This forum certainly has an abundance dog attack and bear rehabilitation experts!

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It also has an abundance of people totally clueless on those issues as well.

Are you going to dispute the CDC link's assertion that dog attacks are breed specifics?

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

It also has an abundance of people totally clueless on those issues as well.

Are you going to dispute the CDC link's assertion that dog attacks are breed specifics?

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Those numbers are skewed, which is old news and one of the reasons BSL is going the way of the dinosaur, and besides the fact it's been proven that it just doesn't work.

The link below explains in in much better detail:

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION
BREEDS OF DOGS INVOLVED IN FATAL HUMAN ATTACKS IN THE UNITED STATES BETWEEN 1979 AND 1998

This is perhaps the most misused and misunderstood dog bite report. Politicians and the media often quote this report inaccurately.
The main flaw in the CDC study is that it attempts to characterize dog attacks by breed, while ignoring all other possible factors.

http://stopbsl.org/fortherecord/scientific-studies/

Mathematics have no bias.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Mathematics have no bias.

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So if a company has 50 trucks and 2 of those trucks get pulled over for a violation/mechanical inspection but one of them fails, do they now have a 50% violation rate? The numbers don't lie, right? That's one bad company, or sure appear to be!

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Those numbers are skewed, which is old news and one of the reasons BSL is going the way of the dinosaur, and besides the fact it's been proven that it just doesn't work.

The link below explains in in much better detail:

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION
BREEDS OF DOGS INVOLVED IN FATAL HUMAN ATTACKS IN THE UNITED STATES BETWEEN 1979 AND 1998

This is perhaps the most misused and misunderstood dog bite report. Politicians and the media often quote this report inaccurately.
The main flaw in the CDC study is that it attempts to characterize dog attacks by breed, while ignoring all other possible factors.

http://stopbsl.org/fortherecord/scientific-studies/


I can also post links indicating bear cub rehabilitation works quite well.

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The numbers aren't skewed - they are pretty simple: X people killed by breed Y.

Could you elaborate on what is skewed - the article says breed mis-identification - but where "purebred" is identified, I can think we can pretty easily assume that breed was correctly identified.

Bear cub rehabilitation and release into the wild has not worked successfully ever, anywhere.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

The numbers aren't skewed - they are pretty simple: X people killed by breed Y.

Could you elaborate on what is skewed - the article says breed mis-identification - but where "purebred" is identified, I can think we can pretty easily assume that breed was correctly identified.

Bear cub rehabilitation and release into the wild has not worked successfully ever, anywhere.

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You can do whatever you want with numbers. They don't tell the whole story, or situation.

Maybe you should tell Colorado they've been wasting their time. Seems they have a 94% success rate (especially for cubs) in Colorado. Are you to dispute the Colorado Parks and Wildlife findings after rehab'ing all those bears?

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/05/2...ng-bears-work/

The Coroner is reporting that the dog did NOT cause the death of the man....???

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A man in his 30s who died after reportedly being attacked by a dog Wednesday night did not die as a result of the dog attack, Hamilton police say.

The coroner is now investigating the cause of death.

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The witnesses in the same news clip told the reporter that the dog was ripping away at the man.

Strange and getting stranger.

Good link (Scientific Studies) Rick....thanks.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The Corner is reporting that the dog did NOT cause the death of the man....???



The witnesses in the same news clip told the reporter that the dog was ripping away at the man.

Strange and getting stranger.

Good link (Scientific Studies) Rick....thanks.

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Its the old Law school question. Man gets shot stumbles into traffic gets hit by a speeding car and dies. What did he die from?


Any number of things may have happen. Guy could of had a heart condition that the stress of the attack literally scared him to death. However I'm sure a dog at your throat isn't making anything better. Can sugar coat a bitter pill as much as you want but when you got an animal bred with the mentality and physiology to take on a 1500 pound animal anything else is just a chew toy. Keep'em if you like but be prepared to be held to a higher level of care and control of that animal.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

As far as anywhere and anytime - that's a pretty silly assertion. Let me know if you ever hear about a fatal beagle attack.

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The number/stat is there. Doesn't matter how or why if you just look at a page with a bunch of numbers and you believe them to be end all be all.

Beagle: The fatality was a strangulation caused by tugging on a leash which was around a child’s neck.

http://www.melbourne-petminders.com....s-dog-attacks/

These Beagles would likely do a number on you if given the chance. Again, it's the issue of hunters abondoning their dogs.

http://nypost.com/2010/01/31/savage-...rize-east-end/

This dog had 3 men beating on it, one with a baseball bat and it didn't stop or let go of the guy's throat and he died. Of course it wasn't the dog's fault. Just a misunderstanding really. As for the 6 yr old kid killed by a pit in Sharon's link again an anomalie. First kid the dog ever killed right?

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Originally Posted by terrym

This dog had 3 men beating on it, one with a baseball bat and it didn't stop or let go of the guy's throat and he died. Of course it wasn't the dog's fault.

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I think you missed Mike's post. The Coroner determined it wasn't the dog that caused the mans death. Maybe it was a baseball bat.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

That is very, very, very untrue. Dog attacks are not breed specific. FATAL dog attacks are very, very, very breed specific.

Have a look at the chart on the bottom of page 2.

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreation...ogbreeds-a.pdf

You can also double check this with the fatal dog attacks Wikipedia page.

As far as anywhere and anytime - that's a pretty silly assertion. Let me know if you ever hear about a fatal beagle attack.

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Someone may have been licked to death once. :)

S''t happens on barton steet man.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

The number/stat is there. Doesn't matter how or why if you just look at a page with a bunch of numbers and you believe them to be end all be all.

Beagle: The fatality was a strangulation caused by tugging on a leash which was around a child’s neck.

http://www.melbourne-petminders.com....s-dog-attacks/

These Beagles would likely do a number on you if given the chance. Again, it's the issue of hunters abondoning their dogs.

http://nypost.com/2010/01/31/savage-...rize-east-end/

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In the first link, its not a beagle attacking, its pulling on a leash which was wrapped around a 4 year old's neck.

The second was describe as "“They were barking so ferociously that I thought they were going to attack my dogs,” she said of the Jan. 16 scare".

If you're comparing those with pitbulls and rotties attacking and killing adults, you're more than a bit off your rocker....and you have demonstrated you can't find a reference to a fatal beagle attack...Thanks.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I think you missed Mike's post. The Coroner determined it wasn't the dog that caused the mans death. Maybe it was a baseball bat.

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One thing for sure the dog wasn't preforming CPR

The bat thing makes no sense to me. Give me a bat, and let me take a swing at the brain case on a 40 lb dog, and I'm pretty sure there would be a dead dog, regardless of the breed involved. One good connection would crush the brain case. A solid hit along the spine would crush the spinal cord. Sounds fishy to me.

This is an interesting story. I"m looking forward to more facts coming out.. I said facts.
The Hamilton Spectator today identified the dog as a young male mastiff type. However that is probably not confirmed as the owner has not been located.
Generally speaking, I'm a big fan of the pit bull breed and find it disturbing when they are dragged into every dog biting report.
I have been bitten twice in my life. Strangely - both times by a collie.
I would suspect small (less than 10 lbs) terriers are the most common biters, however not reported due to the lesser injury factor.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Once again, the breed is predictable.
http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-sta...ities-2014.php
According to this link, Pitbull account for less than 10% of the dog population but also account for 65% of fatalities.

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the real reason is not the "breed" itself, but who buys what breed!
we prefer certain breeds for certain jobs and we "use" those dogs specifically for that.
I dare to say that 90% of pitbulls (etc.) are owned by people who bought the dog for the sole purpose of intimidation. so it does not matter that they actually could make great family dogs, a good number of them will not get (intentionally) the socialization needed and some will get some extra "treatment". and then everyone wonders if they do what they have been prepared for

LAST5OH_302
When is it the breeds fault? Never right.
Look you can put a silk tie on a pig but its still a pig. I don't care how how much you train and socialize you can never get that instinct out of the breed.
It's like this idiots that train lions and tigers then when someone is killed everyone is so surprised.

these fighting breeds of dogs should be outlawed, other then fighting and killing they are totally useless.
like Waftrudnir said 90%(I would say more like 100%) of people picking these breeds are getting them for intimidation, I don't know of or heard of anyone saying let get a family dog, hey why not get a pit bull there great family dogs.

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Originally Posted by Roper

I would suspect small (less than 10 lbs) terriers are the most common biters, however not reported due to the lesser injury factor.

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Your right...we had a thread on this: http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...ggressive-Dogs

It wasn't the dog that killed the man- death unknown yet , but the man was badly bitten up - but a dog that for some reason turned on its owner and even when restrained and the owner was lying on the ground, the dog wanted to get at him. I can't explain that.

http://www.lfpress.com/2015/07/09/ma...ton-ont-police

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Your right...we had a thread on this: http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...ggressive-Dogs

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These are good:



http://i0.wp.com/www.bitsandpieces.u...size=681%2C531

http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/awKobb1_700b.jpg

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Originally Posted by Big Gunner

LAST5OH_302
When is it the breeds fault? Never right.
Look you can put a silk tie on a pig but its still a pig. I don't care how how much you train and socialize you can never get that instinct out of the breed.
It's like this idiots that train lions and tigers then when someone is killed everyone is so surprised.

these fighting breeds of dogs should be outlawed, other then fighting and killing they are totally useless.
like Waftrudnir said 90%(I would say more like 100%) of people picking these breeds are getting them for intimidation, I don't know of or heard of anyone saying let get a family dog, hey why not get a pit bull there great family dogs.

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I hear your frustration, but I cannot say that I'm for outlawing a dog breed. Those guys just pick or invent another one. And what do you do with all the rescue dogs that suddenly nobody is allowed to own; destroy them all? By the way, they can be decent family/nanny dogs (just takes effort/planning).
The problem is always scumbags and people like us (and our complacent enforcement/government) who lets them do what they want. The dogs are just another means for them to pester the rest of the general public.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

It wasn't the dog that killed the man- death unknown yet , but the man was badly bitten up - but a dog that for some reason turned on its owner and even when restrained and the owner was lying on the ground, the dog wanted to get at him. I can't explain that.

http://www.lfpress.com/2015/07/09/ma...ton-ont-police

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.................

I understand a dog protecting its property or attacking what it seems to consider an intruder .

This dog however turned on its OWNER when they were out for a walk. Forgetting any breed considerations, what is going on in the dog's head in this event?

The owner's throat mostly.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

These are good:





http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/awKobb1_700b.jpg

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The difference, of course, is that a large breed of dog can maim, or kill an adult human. A small dog is controllable by an adult by virtue of its small size.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

The difference, of course, is that a large breed of dog can maim, or kill an adult human. A small dog is controllable by an adult by virtue of its small size.

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If the Dachshund my father used have was a larger dog you'd really have no choice but to put him down.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

.................

I understand a dog protecting its property or attacking what it seems to consider an intruder .

This dog however turned on its OWNER when they were out for a walk. Forgetting any breed considerations, what is going on in the dog's head in this event?

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We'll never know. It might have been abused, bad breeding, training, some of the areas along Barton St can be a little rough, there could be all kinds of reasons. A friend had a dog that was loved and well taken care of but it's wires were crossed, or something was way off on that boy. I was never very comfortable around that dog but it was a real shame and heart breaker when he had to put such a young dog to sleep.


Who knows if this dog was even attacking it's owner.

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“It may have appeared to somebody ... to be a dog attack. But I can tell you from our examination of the body we have no evidence to suggest the dog is involved in the death process,” he said.

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Perhaps it appeared like an attack to witnesses, but the dog was actually trying to wake up his owner? Who knows? Too many possible variables with what info there is.

Filas are known to be aggressive to strangers. Stats are pretty objective.

So it seems this dog didn't belong to anyone. The plot thickens, and I'm glad to see the city isn't rushing to euthanize, although it's likely going to happen..

I'm beginning to think the dog is the victim in all this, which is usually the case. It's scenarios like this that would get included in the CDC fatal dog attack statistics.

He looks like a neglected Bull Mastiff:

https://fbcdn-photos-h-a.akamaihd.ne...44b318ed0f974d






Hamilton Dog Attack update from the City:
The dog remains in quarantine and Hamilton Animal Services’ priority at the moment is to determine the identity of the owner. We are following up on several leads; however, to assist in this effort,we’re asking anyone with information to contact Hamilton Animal Services at 905-574-3433.
Hamilton Animal Services is not rushing a decision regarding euthanization of this dog. Until they identify the owner and receive further direction and information from the coroner on the severity of the injuries to the victim, the dog will remain in custody.
In terms of the dog’s condition and demeanour, he's in fairly good shape and is in better spirits than yesterday.
Further to the above, under the guidance of Ontario Ministry of Health and Long Term Care, Hamilton Public Health Services has recommended that the dog remain in confinement until the end of the 10 days, on or after July 19. This is to allow for monitoring the presence of rabies in the animal. During this time, Public Health has also requested that Animal Services limit who is exposed to the dog to further minimize the risk of rabies exposure. The dog will continue to receive humane care, including the administering of medication.


·

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...57465&refid=17

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

A friend had a dog that was loved and well taken care of but it's wires were crossed, or something was way off on that boy. I was never very comfortable around that dog but it was a real shame and heart breaker when he had to put such a young dog to sleep.

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Sorry, but I don't understand why it was a shame and heart breaker. Your other comments certainly imply this dog was a disaster just waiting to happen.

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Originally Posted by NorthernGrouse

Sorry, but I don't understand why it was a shame and heart breaker. Your other comments certainly imply this dog was a disaster just waiting to happen.

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Somebody backyard bred that dog and it's always a shame and heart breaker when a young dog has to be put down due to the mistakes of humans.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Somebody backyard bred that dog and it's always a shame and heart breaker when a young dog has to be put down due to the mistakes of humans.

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You and your knocking of back yard breeders. If the dogs should not have been breed than its the original lineage that should of been culled right from the Professional breeder.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

You and your knocking of back yard breeders. If the dogs should not have been breed than its the original lineage that should of been culled right from the Professional breeder.

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And why don't backyard breeders do that? To make a buck. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm not getting into this again. I'd rather bang my head on a brick wall.

The picture of that dog is very sad. Doubtfull it has seen a vet in a long time. Under nourished. It has the shy scared look of a neglected and possibly abused animal.
With respect to some posters saying pitbull are useless and no value. I have owned numerous and have found them to be fabulous family dogs. My 2 children grew up with their loving protection.Attachment 30212 Attached picture is of me and Shiner ice fishing on Lake Scugog.

I've had many dogs - some rescues that I felt deserved a chance.
Two of them I had to put down , after working with them for a year.

Gave it my best effort - made sure everyone was safe - but they couldn't be reconditioned. Yes humans were at fault.

I think a dog deserves a chance, but if it proves itself untrustworthy - possibly dangerous- than It needs to be put down.

( Wait until I put on my helmet and flak jacket.) :)

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

And why don't backyard breeders do that? To make a buck. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm not getting into this again. I'd rather bang my head on a brick wall.

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Wasn't proving your point. It was the responsibility of the professional breeder who didn't cull the defective line at the source why maybe for profit? In every industry there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. To paint all backyard breeders as irresponsible money hungry cheats is ignorant and insulting.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Wasn't proving your point. It was the responsibility of the professional breeder who didn't cull the defective line at the source why maybe for profit? In every industry there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. To paint all backyard breeders as irresponsible money hungry cheats is ignorant and insulting.

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What professional breeder are you talking about?! Are you implying that BYB's buy their dogs from ethical breeders? LOL

Do yourself a favor and google backyard breeders since you're such a big supporter of them. This isn't the 70's anymore, and you did inadvertently prove my point through your own ignorance. Thanks again.

Ok, now I'm officially done on that topic.

Don't have to google nothing. As one who has been involved in backyard breeding and who currently owns a pup from a backyard breeding I can attest that none where ever down for money. Again read....... In every industry there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. To paint all backyard breeders as irresponsible money hungry cheats is ignorant and insulting.

302 - I think you are going over the top against back yard breeding. Actually I'd like to hear a definition of the term "Back Yard Breeding".
A while back I had a few dogs. They ran around in my "Back Yard" often. I bred them a few times. Sold the pups with papers and sometimes in the same litter without papers. They all paid visits to the vet before 8 weeks. They were healthy, normal social dogs.
Am I a Backyard Breeder?
My brother recently bought an English Bull Terrier from a couple who raised the parents in her home. The pup came with papers.
Is that person who sold my brother a wonderfull, healthy pup - a dreaded "Back Yard Breeder?"
One of the pups I bred came with a short tail. A non-standard tail. I did NOT cull (as you suggest) that pup for betterment of the breed. Simply sold the pup cheaper without papers to a loving home.
Food for thought - I suspect ALL top notch professional breeders started at some time as a terrible "Back Yard Breeder.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

So it seems this dog didn't belong to anyone. The plot thickens, and I'm glad to see the city isn't rushing to euthanize, although it's likely going to happen..

I'm beginning to think the dog is the victim in all this, which is usually the case. It's scenarios like this that would get included in the CDC fatal dog attack statistics.

He looks like a neglected Bull Mastiff:

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....a man died. I'd say he is the victim.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

....a man died. I'd say he is the victim.

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I'm wondering if he stole the dog.

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Originally Posted by Roper

302 - I think you are going over the top against back yard breeding. Actually I'd like to hear a definition of the term "Back Yard Breeding".
A while back I had a few dogs. They ran around in my "Back Yard" often. I bred them a few times. Sold the pups with papers and sometimes in the same litter without papers. They all paid visits to the vet before 8 weeks. They were healthy, normal social dogs.
Am I a Backyard Breeder?
My brother recently bought an English Bull Terrier from a couple who raised the parents in her home. The pup came with papers.
Is that person who sold my brother a wonderfull, healthy pup - a dreaded "Back Yard Breeder?"
One of the pups I bred came with a short tail. A non-standard tail. I did NOT cull (as you suggest) that pup for betterment of the breed. Simply sold the pup cheaper without papers to a loving home.
Food for thought - I suspect ALL top notch professional breeders started at some time as a terrible "Back Yard Breeder.

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Define papers ? C.K.C registered ? Papers meaning vet vaccinated certificate ?

Papers in the case of the dogs I bred were UKC papers. United Kennel Club.
The English Bull Terrier my brother bought were CKC papers.

Roper does the UKC have a code of practice along with a by law if code is broken for members breeding and selling unregistered animals ? C.K.C has this and the fines are stiff if broken along with an investigation and hearing. Hopefully by reading the UKC and C.K.C code of practice this will answer your questions about backyard breeders.

The UKC is another registry from the United States and not to be confused with The Kennel Club KC uk. Code of practice can differ between these registry's but ultimately it is for the betterment of the breed.

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Originally Posted by Roper

302 - I think you are going over the top against back yard breeding. Actually I'd like to hear a definition of the term "Back Yard Breeding".
A while back I had a few dogs. They ran around in my "Back Yard" often. I bred them a few times. Sold the pups with papers and sometimes in the same litter without papers. They all paid visits to the vet before 8 weeks. They were healthy, normal social dogs.
Am I a Backyard Breeder?
My brother recently bought an English Bull Terrier from a couple who raised the parents in her home. The pup came with papers.
Is that person who sold my brother a wonderfull, healthy pup - a dreaded "Back Yard Breeder?"
One of the pups I bred came with a short tail. A non-standard tail. I did NOT cull (as you suggest) that pup for betterment of the breed. Simply sold the pup cheaper without papers to a loving home.
Food for thought - I suspect ALL top notch professional breeders started at some time as a terrible "Back Yard Breeder.

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There's plenty of info if you Google it Roper. I know I said I'm done with this topic but since you asked, this sums it up and I hope it answers your question:

What is a backyard breeder?:

Probably the best definition I have found so far to answer "What is a back yard breeder (BYB)?" comes from Boxerworld.com:

"The average pet owner that breeds their dog(s)."

So, why are back yard breeders a problem? Well, they just breed dogs for the sake of it. They may have a sweet pet they want to try and reproduce or they think that their dogs are quality because they have papers and/or are registered with some registry. They think maybe they can make a few dollars selling pups, etc. They just put out dogs without real consideration for the future of not only the breed but the puppies produced.

Often, BYBs breed dogs with faults. This perpetuates fault and problems in the breed. They do nothing to prove their dogs are of sound temperament and that they are breeding good representatives of the breed, etc. They just breed. And often, they do not even breed purebreds. Some BYBs "create" neat sounding things and think they are breeds - like Dalimers. This was seen listed in the Washington Post as a rare, German breed. Well, they are mutts - crosses of Dalmatians and Weimeraners, nothing more than a back yarder trying to make a buck
Some BYBs are breeding good dogs and proving health, they just are not competing with their dogs. Ask about pertinent tests for the type of dog you are looking for.

But many people who show and breed dogs do so from their homes and backyards? How do you know is a breeder is one you should work with or not? Through EDUCATION and ASKING questions. These questions will help you out:

"Sadly, not all people professing to be reputable and responsible breeders are. A good breeder will all but interrogate you. You should also have the chance to question the breeder. If you are not sure or uneasy with an answer, do not hesitate to ask for an explanation. If at any time you get an uneasy feeling or just are not satisfied, look elsewhere. A few things to ask about are:

1. What is the asking price of the puppies? Some breeders will ask the same for pet quality and show potential puppies. Compare prices with other breeders of the same breed and if the price is considerably higher or lower do not hesitate to ask why. Do not hesitate to ask why if there is a big difference in pet and show pups. Unless there is a visible disqualification or the puppy visibly will not be showing potential, the younger the pup the harder it is to determine show quality. A person who really knows the breed can have a good idea what pups have show POTENTIAL and what may not. Much happens while the puppy grows and that eight week show prospect may not be show potential at 9 months! And avoid ANY breeder who charges different for males or females or who charges extra if you want a pedigree or registration. It is not that expensive to register a litter so the potential owners can individually register puppies. (Many kennel clubs like the AKC require all litters to be registered by the breeder. Then papers are sent out that are given to buyers of puppies so the owner can register them in their name).

2. What health tests have been done on BOTH parents of the litter? Any dog should have hips (OFA or PennHip), eyes (CERF) and ideally thyroid prior to breeding. Then is up to you as potential buyer to know what other tests the breed you are looking at should have. Even crossbred puppies are prone to hereditary health issues and parents should be tested prior to breeding for anything common within the two breeds crossed. Though a reputable breeder will NOT cross as the predicability in outcome is less and there are too many negligent litters of crossbred pups from unaltered pets. The breeder should be able to show documentation of all tests and do not hesitate to verify the results. Do not blindly accept their word – some dishonest breeders will lie and say all tests have been done. And if the breeder says there is nothing in the line so testing is not important, avoid this person as well. Some health problems are polygenetic (more than one set of genes involved – not a simple dominant/recessive). Some health problems take years to show fully or may be there but not showing outwardly. For example, some dysplastic dogs never show signs of having it and it is only diagnosed upon testing.

3. What temperament testing and socialization has been done? Granted, young puppies should not leave the property due to a growing immune system; however, the breeder should expose the puppies to as many things as possible like vacuum cleaners, children, house sounds, etc. The older the puppy, the more experiences it should have. Has the breeder temperament tested and what method was used? A good breeder will help match the right personality to you. If you are a quiet family and the breeder pushes a dominant pup on you, leave. On the other hand, if you like the look of one puppy and the breeder, after interviewing you, decides it is not the right match, respect that.

4. What goals does the breeder have with the breeding program and how does the breeder go about to achieve this? If the breeder breeds just to produce more dogs, for pets only or anything that does not go towards the bettering of the breeder's lines and the breed as a whole, go elsewhere. And if the breeder breeds for working ability first, you could end up with a handful! Look for one who breeds for companionship as well as type and working ability – unless you are looking exclusively for a working dog.

5. What does the breeder feel are the strengths and weaknesses in the breed and the breeder's program? The breeder should be open with you about the program and where they hope to go with it. Avoid the breeder who insists there are no better dogs around then his.

6. Can you see the pedigrees of both sire and dam? Can you see at least the dam on premises? The sire may not be on site but the dam should be. If not, you could be dealing with a broker (one who sells dogs not bred by that person).

7. What type of contract does the breeder have for pet or show puppies (it should include a spay/neuter agreement and health guarantee)? Do not get pressured into becoming contracted to show or breed your dog – even if you do plan to show and possibly get into breeding someday. Everything should be spelled out in the contract. And be wary of a breeder sells you a young puppy that is "definitely show quality." So much happens during growth and development – the younger the puppy; the harder it is to tell show quality. A breeder who really knows the breed can tell if a young pup has POTENTIAL but should not be guaranteeing the dog will be a show dog. Another red flag is the breeder who has no written contract at all. All puppies whether pet or show potential should be sold with a written contract.

8. What does the breeder feed the puppies? You want to try and keep the puppies on the same brand of food. If the breeder uses something you do not, gradually wean the puppy to your preferred brand.

9. What inoculations have been given? Eight-week-old puppies should have had their first set of inoculations and you should be given documentation of this. If not, go elsewhere. If the puppies have no boosters prior to leaving the dam, look elsewhere.

10. Can you have your own vet examine the puppy before you fully commit? You may be asked to put down a deposit but you should have the option of having your vet examine the puppy with in a couple days after purchase (always a good idea to have this done and the breeder may require it).

11. Are you active in any breed clubs (all breed or ideally breed specialty)? Many clubs have a breeder code of ethics that they want their members to adhere to. Just being AKC registered is not a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. It just means the puppy was from registered parents and the breeder has taken the steps to begin the registration process for the puppies. Even pet stores can sell AKC registered pups if the miller registers the dogs. The AKC cannot police everyone professing to be a breeder so again, being and educated consumer is very important.

Use your gut instinct and do not get suckered by cute faces or sob stories. Remember, this pup will be yours for the next ten years or much longer depending on breed. You should get the best possible puppy possible from the most responsible source you can find should you go the breeder route.

Many of these questions can be adapted to ask at a rescue as well. Do not hesitate to ask what is know about the background of the puppies (or adult dog), what medical care they have had and has the staff noticed anything about their temperaments that could be of concern? Ask about the adoption agreement and have it gone through carefully with you."

No part of this article may be reproduced without written permission from Karen Peak

© by West Wind Dog Training, 2000 - 2002
No Puppy Mills, VA 2003

A good breeder takes a LIFETIME interest in ALL dogs produced. They want to know how your dog does in it's new home, love getting calls and cards from you and are always there to advise you of a problem comes up. If a medical condition crops up, they want to know so if it is potentially hereditary, they can alter the program and try to stop the problem in future generations. A good breeder is a mentor and best friend to all buyers and dogs they produced. And a good breeder will sell with a spay/neuter contract or alter the puppy or dog before placement!


http://home.comcast.net/~NoPuppyMill..._breeder_.html


Edit:

The one important thing I noticed missing in this list is that a responsible/reputable/ethical breeder will never let any of their pups end up in shelters. If the puppy buyer for any reason has to give up their dog, it goes back to the breeder, which should be included in the contract. That goes for every pup the breeder produces and puts on the ground. The breeder is there for the life of the pups they produce.

Great piece of information Rick !

Thanks for the info.

Only dog to ever bite a family member at my home was a BEAGLE.

Present dog,no aggression to humans (unless you are breaking into the house), but for other dogs,dont pick a fight and you will be OK.

So, this goofy and lovable looking dog isn't dangerous? The fact he had a man by the throat and couldn't be pulled off after being pounded on with a baseball bat and now that man is dead isn't a problem because the dog looks friendly? Sorry, this dog needs an injection and hopefully the idiots who turned it into what it is don't try again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

So, this goofy and lovable looking dog isn't dangerous? The fact he had a man by the throat and couldn't be pulled off after being pounded on with a baseball bat and now that man is dead isn't a problem because the dog looks friendly? Sorry, this dog needs an injection and hopefully the idiots who turned it into what it is don't try again.

---

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if somebody stole your buddy and he defended himself while getting beat with a bat. Should he get a lethal injection as well? Just being the devil's advocate and throwing that out there since so little info is offered and you're assuming so much. The owner of this dog is yet to be found. The info being released seems to change repeatedly. People sure are quick to burn the witch based on lousy media reports.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Only dog to ever bite a family member at my home was a BEAGLE.

Present dog,no aggression to humans (unless you are breaking into the house), but for other dogs,dont pick a fight and you will be OK.

---

That's unusual. I've had many beagles and never a problem. Only dog I had try to bite someone was a JRT. It was my brother - in - law who didn't like dogs in the first place. Haven't seen him since then . :)

The owner of this dog has been identified, and that person was not the man killed.

http://www.newstalk1010.com/news/201...on-dog-attack-

A direct quote from the deceased's sister:

Can we stop calling this unfortunate incident a 'fatal dog attack' now. Do you still wish to continue to ignore the FACTS? Here is a direct quote from the deceased's sister, Mandy McCullough: "I am posting this for everyone's clarification. I am Matthew's sister, his POA. I have spoken directly with the detectives as well as the coroner. The dog had nothing to do with his death. There was not one bite mark on his body. My brother's death was from natural causes, due to a completely unrelated health issue. I am asking for everyone to allow his family time to grieve and make sense of this tragic and unexpected loss. Matthew was a kind and gentle soul who had a love for ALL animals." - See more at: http://www.newstalk1010.com/news/201....XzMnTMOO.dpuf

Good lord. Now I am really confused. A story about a dog biting a mans throat with baseball bats involved and now a statement that there was not a bite on the mans body. We need a new hobby people!

Well at least we were able to post the definition of a backyard breeder(finally).

Oh you guys got that one cleared up alright. Lol.

Wow....how convoluted does this story get?
So here is what I wonder?
Was there a dog involved?
Was it a real dog or perceived dog?
What did this poor soul die of?
Was there actually a bat involved?
If there was a bat, why was the bat used on the not-attacking dog?
Would the coroner be able to ascertain whether the victim died of say....a heart attack versus having his throat ripped out by a dog? I see where that could be a tough one.
Did the police arrive during the incident or afterwards where-by they were told certain.....perceptions?
Has this dog been a nuisance before and would someone want to implicate said dog/dog owner?
Basically, do we know anything factual (other than the sad passing on of a gent)?
Note that the newspaper article used the word "killed" while apparently the sister denies that. Hmmm? My condolences to the family. What they must be going through?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ugo

Wow....how convoluted does this story get?

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I find it strange they were interviewing witnesses that saw a guy using a bat to try to beat the dog off the man.....yet they now say there wasn't a bite mark on his body.

I'd like to the hear the telling of the events from the 2nd guy who was there...I'm taking the story from the sister with a grain of salt.

Dog bites,baseball bats? Really? :confused: I believe the man's family. They would be the ONLY people entitled to have factual information besides the Police. I wonder what planet the reporter was on that posted this bullshyte account? :whacked:He/she needs a crash course on accurate reporting. Yep,you can sure believe everything you read,can't you? Well,it was in the paper so it must be true....right? :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Dog bites,baseball bats? Really? :confused:

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Well this CTV video (at link) shows multiple witnesses saying the dog was attacking the man....and rescue crews had to use pepper spray to break off the attack....were they all lying ??

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/dog-attack...lice-1.2460957

Here's what I think happened:

Everybody was stoned and drunk. The fella that died had control of dog. Guy with dog collapses and dies (for whatever reason) and dog reacts by trying revive him (licking, pushing him with nose) and 2nd drunk and stoned guy misinterprets this as an attack, or somebody misinterprets it as an attack and just happens to have a baseball bat handy. Starting to wonder about the bat as well now.

And there ya have it folks. CSI OOD right here.

Still wondering where the fella that died got the dog.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Dog bites,baseball bats? Really? :confused: I believe the man's family. They would be the ONLY people entitled to have factual information besides the Police. I wonder what planet the reporter was on that posted this bullshyte account? :whacked:He/she needs a crash course on accurate reporting. Yep,you can sure believe everything you read,can't you? Well,it was in the paper so it must be true....right? :rolleyes:

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LOL no kidding. I think the reporter was drunk and stoned as well. Maybe the reporter had the bat.

You could be on to something Rick. This story gets stranger and stranger by the day and how come there did not appear to be any blood on the pavement at the scene of the attack. ?????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

The owner of this dog has been identified, and that person was not the man killed.

http://www.newstalk1010.com/news/201...on-dog-attack-

A direct quote from the deceased's sister:

Can we stop calling this unfortunate incident a 'fatal dog attack' now. Do you still wish to continue to ignore the FACTS? Here is a direct quote from the deceased's sister, Mandy McCullough: "I am posting this for everyone's clarification. I am Matthew's sister, his POA. I have spoken directly with the detectives as well as the coroner. The dog had nothing to do with his death. There was not one bite mark on his body. My brother's death was from natural causes, due to a completely unrelated health issue. I am asking for everyone to allow his family time to grieve and make sense of this tragic and unexpected loss. Matthew was a kind and gentle soul who had a love for ALL animals." - See more at: http://www.newstalk1010.com/news/201....XzMnTMOO.dpuf

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Hang on - that quote is NOT from the news article. Its a comment someone added below the article.

I can only find that comment made two places on the internet (other than here) and those are on
https://www.facebook.com/SaveOntarioDog
https://www.facebook.com/Ontario.PitBull.CoOp

Grain of salt? A whole truckload.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Grain of salt? A whole truckload.

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I think that 'Mandy' is really the dogs owner.. incognito.. "stop vilifying my dog" !!!...LOL...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well this CTV video (at link) shows multiple witnesses saying the dog was attacking the man....and rescue crews had to use pepper spray to break off the attack....were they all lying ??

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/dog-attack...lice-1.2460957

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Tell my why are the police in all reports are saying "the man did not die as a direct result of the dog attack" ? also in the video , where is the blood from this dog attack non shown any where .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well this CTV video (at link) shows multiple witnesses saying the dog was attacking the man....and rescue crews had to use pepper spray to break off the attack....were they all lying ??

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/dog-attack...lice-1.2460957

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No,I don't think they were all lying,but,I do believe they're all idiots that jumped to the wrong conclusions for whatever reason (stoned,drunk or both,whatever.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

where is the blood from this dog attack non shown any where .

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Notice the puddles along the side of the road....heavy rains

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

No,I don't think they were all lying,but,I do believe they're all idiots that jumped to the wrong conclusions for whatever reason (stoned,drunk or both,whatever.)

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The fine and outstanding looking neighbour Guylaine Rivet would probably take offense to those comments :)

Quote:

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Notice the puddles along the side of the road....heavy rains

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In the last 5 to 8 seconds of the clip. the gutters are absolutely dry , and there are no signs of blood anywhere in the video.
As far as witness's are concerned , take a group of 5 or 6 people and show them something video? and then ask them a while later what they saw , most times you will get at least I/2 of them saw something different than the others., blue car, black car. grey car, green car , some will even swear it was a truck they saw, or even a space ship and aliens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

In the last 5 to 8 seconds of the clip. the gutters are absolutely dry ,

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but at 9 sec in, the road is wet......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

or even a space ship and aliens.

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Especially in that area of Hamilton.

I never had sexual relations with that woman.........I will not raise your taxes........oh forget it :ashamed:

I think we missed the obvious.....the guy was already 'Walking Dead'....the dog attacked a Zombie ..no harm no foul !!... LOL

Apparently now it was a cougar attack, or a Tiger Cat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Apparently now it was a cougar attack, or a Tiger Cat.

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El Chupacabra

Ok this is getting stupid. Are we missing the point. Someone wrote "the dog was trying to revive him by licking and tapping him with his nose" and then what when that didn't work it bit the hell out of him, come on are you kidding me. I think what happened is the guy was dying, causes are still unknown, probably drug over dose then as canine instinct set in (especially in this type of breed) it saw a weak and crippled prey and attacked. There's no denying the dog mauled this gentlemen. What would be even worse is if the guy died and the dog just started chewing on him. Either way this dog is now tainted and needs to be put down.
I was at the vet the other week and there was a lady who was putting her 4 year old dog down because a friend of her's was at the pound and saw a cane corso that was going to be put down because of aggression and attacking people, she thought she could save this dog. Well low and behold she brings the dog to her friends house and it decides to use the smaller dog as a chew toy.
I don't understand how many people and children need to be mauled and killed before these breeds are banned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunner

Ok this is getting stupid. Are we missing the point. Someone wrote "the dog was trying to revive him by licking and tapping him with his nose" and then what when that didn't work bit the hell out of him come on are you kidding me. I think what happened is the guy was dying causes are still unknown probably drug over dose then as canine instinct set in as (especially in this type of breed) it saw a weak and crippled prey and attacked. There's no denying the dog mauled this gentlemen. What would be even worse if the guy died and the dog just started chewing on him. Either way this dog is now tainted and needs to be put down.
I was the vet the other week and there was a lady who was putting her 4 year old dog down because a friend of her's was at the pound and saw a cane corso that was going to be put down because of aggression and attacking people, she thought she could save this dog. Well low and behold she brings the dog to her friends house and it decides to use the smaller dog as a chew toy.
I don't understand how many people and children need to be mauled and killed before these breeds are banned.

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More like nuzzling, lovingly, while whispering sweet nothings in his ear.

BAN BAN BAN! Damn liberal, pinko, PETA loving tree huggers want to ban everything!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roper

The picture of that dog is very sad. Doubtfull it has seen a vet in a long time. Under nourished. It has the shy scared look of a neglected and possibly abused animal.
With respect to some posters saying pitbull are useless and no value. I have owned numerous and have found them to be fabulous family dogs. My 2 children grew up with their loving protection.Attachment 30212 Attached picture is of me and Shiner ice fishing on Lake Scugog.

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Russ, love the ice fishing pic - classic.

As an aside we currently own a pit bull lab cross that was rescued by my son from a drug dealer. Fortunately she was only 3 months old when my son rescued her so I don't think she was too screwed up. Took her about 6 months to come out of her shell but she is a great dog and gentle as a butterfly where people are concerned.

Her only real remaining hang up (and this may be breed related) is she will attack any other dog or other animal she meets if the animal is smaller than an average size racoon. If the animal is larger than this she hides under the nearest deck. We just make sure that these type of interactions do not happen or if they do we make sure that my wife or I are there to supervise the first meeting. One stern word and she leaves the other animal alone but it seems the stern word is necessary for every individual animal she meets.

Quote:

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More like nuzzling, lovingly, while whispering sweet nothings in his ear.

BAN BAN BAN! Damn liberal, pinko, PETA loving tree huggers want to ban everything!

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Lol Just the answer I expected. Nothing of value.

Tree loving yes. I do appreciate them trees. PETA loving no. We don't see eye to eye in regards to the whole me shooting animals then eating them. And I would say I am a little liberal on some views. And I have no idea what a pinko is sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Russ, love the ice fishing pic - classic.

As an aside we currently own a pit bull lab cross that was rescued by my son from a drug dealer. Fortunately she was only 3 months old when my son rescued her so I don't think she was too screwed up. Took her about 6 months to come out of her shell but she is a great dog and gentle as a butterfly where people are concerned.

Her only real remaining hang up (and this may be breed related) is she will attack any other dog or other animal she meets if the animal is smaller than an average size racoon. If the animal is larger than this she hides under the nearest deck. We just make sure that these type of interactions do not happen or if they do we make sure that my wife or I are there to supervise the first meeting. One stern word and she leaves the other animal alone but it seems the stern word is necessary for every individual animal she meets.

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Perfect.

"It may be breed related" hummmmmm. Let's see.

Hmmm, so you figure it's the lab in there, eh? Labs can be aggressive with other animals and a lab is also the only breed I've ever been bitten by.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56020005.jpg

This thread is an excellent example of why I don't pay much attention to this forum anymore. Waste of time.

Off topic is just for that reason!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cass

This thread is an excellent example of why I don't pay much attention to this forum anymore. Waste of time.

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Yet here you are..not only reading all 10 pages , you felt the need to comment....sort of like a train wreck eh !!...LOL....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

So, this goofy and lovable looking dog isn't dangerous? The fact he had a man by the throat and couldn't be pulled off after being pounded on with a baseball bat and now that man is dead isn't a problem because the dog looks friendly? Sorry, this dog needs an injection and hopefully the idiots who turned it into what it is don't try again.

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I thought you might be interested in signing this petition:

Despite (INCORRECT) reports of this dog attacking someone to death in Hamilton Ontario, it has been proven by autopsy that the man DID NOT have any dog bites on him and passed away from a heart attack. The story was reported with obvious flaws and although more facts have been shared, including reports from the deceased family that the dog DID NOT injure the man, the dogs fate is still in question. The dog is in quarantine at HAC and may be euthanized.

https://www.change.org/p/hamilton-an...ht_active_card

So who the fak owns this dog??? Anybody.

So the question remains if in fact there are no bite marks or injury why is the dog in quarantine still? A lot of back pedaling from both sides me thinks. In any case dog doesn't point, doesn't retrieve I got no use for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

So who the fak owns this dog??? Anybody.

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I'm sticking with stolen, for the time being.

I have been looking where is the proven factual report that the dog in fact did not bite the person who died, or is this just talk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunner

I have been looking where is the proven factual that the dog in fact did not bite the person who died

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Well, considering there hasn't been an accurate report so far, I wish you luck in finding the facts.

Quote:

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In any case dog doesn't point, doesn't retrieve I got no use for it

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I'm with you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Well, considering there hasn't been an accurate report so far, I wish you luck in finding the facts.

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So then how do we know that the dog in fact never did bit this guy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunner

I'm with you

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That's a shocker.

again this is stupid, I'm done with this,
Let me guess Rick next your going to put up a petition against coyote hunting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunner

So then how do we know that the dog in fact never did bit this guy

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How do we know the dog in fact did bite the guy. Should probably ban them if they don't point I guess.

Seeya.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

How do we know the dog in fact did bite the guy. Should probably ban them if they don't point I guess.

Seeya.

---

Ban not really however Owners should be held liable for greater care and control of the animal. Would treat them like hand guns sure you can have one but you got to prove you can handle it also not allowed in public. At last that would only effect responsible owners that already muzzle and restrain properly their animals irresponsible people will continue to put their animals and the public at risk.

Has it even been confirmed there was a dog, bat, death?

Maybe it was a man sleeping on the sidewalk in his stylish fur coat holding his cane.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I agree because once again it's a people problem.

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Great you agree so like a gun that the police finds as unlicensed and unregistered it sould be confiscated and destroyed. Case close now can we move on.http://www.lakesimcoeoutdoors.com/fo...cons/horse.gif sorry can't find one of a dog......( too soon? )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Great you agree so like a gun that the police finds as unlicensed and unregistered it sould be confiscated and destroyed. Case close now can we move on.http://www.lakesimcoeoutdoors.com/fo...cons/horse.gif sorry can't find one of a dog......( too soon? )

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I edited my last post.

Case closed? So you've determined this dog is the devil and should be put to sleep pronto, based on breed alone?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I edited my last post.

Case closed? So you've determined this dog is the devil and should be put to sleep pronto, based on breed alone?

---

You keep flipping too hard too keep up. Breed really doesn't play into it its Unlicensed, unregistered, owner hasn't come forth so unknown origin doesn't add up to something worth keeping. That be the cold hard facts. Now you can play a violin as much as you want and you may sway the weak and sympathetic but this isn't a warm and fuzzy dog.

So the coroner is confirming there was an attack and the above posted petition is saying the dog didn't touch him, which is false. There are injuries but they didn't cause the death. According to this artcle it was his sister that stated his body wasn't touched.



Dog definitely attacked man, but almost 2,500 still petition to save it

An autopsy did not reveal an obvious cause of death, so now the coroner is waiting on toxicology reports to figure out what killed him. That could take up to six weeks, Stanborough said.
Brigmantas' sister Mandy McCullogh posted about the incident on a Facebook page called Save Ontario Dogs earlier this week, and said her brother died of "natural causes due to a completely unrelated health issue."
She also said she spoke directly to the coroner and detectives about her brother's death, and claimed his body didn't have any bite marks on it. Stanborough said that isn't the case, and that there is no confirmed cause of death yet.
"I don't think she is basing her comments on fact," he said.
McCullogh deleted her post from the group shortly after being contacted by a CBC reporter.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...e-it-1.3155009

I stated earlier that very little makes sense to us at this juncture. That said, what this man died of is something yet to be determined. The sister's comment supports that there is much more to this case than meets the eye/ear. Sounds like she has her own concerns for safety.
Whether the dog repeatedly bit a dying man or an already dead man is irrelevant. "IF" it did, the resulting response should be obvious to EVERYONE.
Somehow, if a petition is raised, it makes the source of said petition 100% correct. ?????
Clueless folk are out there in numbers.
Need proof?
What party did a majority of Ontarians last vote for?

Where did the dog come from, and how did the dead guy acquire it? Why haven't they euthanized it yet? ( they're obviously holding off for a reason or it would've been done already)

Looks like he did own the dog.

Quote:

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She described the dog, owned by Brigmantas and his cousin, as gentle, at least "until you went near his food." She also said that when Brigmantas dropped the leash, the dog would attack him in a playful manner.

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...eful-1.3158419

Her facebook page kinda contradicts her story.

https://www.facebook.com/whitesellam...2%3A%22O%22%7D

They ended up putting the dog down. It never had a chance:

"The dog has been left with different people for days at a time, not fed and also trained to have an attack word," she said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...died-1.3193668

I guess that should put the matter to rest,right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I guess that should put the matter to rest,right?

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Still want to know how the guy died, how badly he was mauled prior to his death and why they said the attack had nothing to do with his death.

Inquiring minds want to know :)

My JRT has an attack word - "SQUIRREL!"

Yeah my dog' s is rumpelstiltskin. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

My JRT has an attack word - "SQUIRREL!"

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LOL. Our Shepherd/Husky was the same way. We could call her to come,rattle truck keys,coax her with cookies,but,if we so much as uttered "squirrel" under our breath,she was gone like a shot and we better have had the door open because she's going through it.

really, what is it with squirrels?
does anyone have a scientific paper that plausibly explains why dogs tend to react differently to squirrels than to other prey?

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

really, what is it with squirrels?
does anyone have a scientific paper that plausibly explains why dogs tend to react differently to squirrels than to other prey?

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LOL. Really? Scientific paper? LOL Not freakin' likely. It's very likely only because the squirrels are the only "prey" animals that happen to be around....other than cats,of course. Ah geez,did I say that out loud?

I thought it was a reference to the movie 'UP'? Maybe I'm wrong.

I think the dog sees the backyard as his territory. The JRT will go for chipmunks, moles, mice, racoons, birds , people - anything in the backyard that in his mind isn't suppose to be there. He sits up on the top of the couch in front of the big window looking out on the backyard to keep an eye on things.

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...ps928b1f23.jpg

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9dcac7fe.jpg

(Still too hot to do anything but sit in the basement and post pics. :) )

That's a heck of a nice lookin pooch there Sharon. That snow picture cools me off a bit too. Thanks.

Thank you.
I've always had a JRT . Love my setters, but there's something about a JRT that always makes me smile/tested.
Taught the most difficult kids when I was teaching , worked at the jail /PP for 20 years and had foster teens. My husband says a JRT just continues my need for a challenge. :)

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Originally Posted by Sharon

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9dcac7fe.jpg

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As a squirrel hunter I would like to know if he is for rent? I would take my mom's little dogs for LLOOOOOONNNNGG walks in the woods every fall. Best hunts I ever had.

LOL You don't want to rent this guy. He eats strangers for breakfast. :)

My daughters Yorkshire Terrier is a crazy chipmunk and squirrel hunter.So much fun to have around when she visits with him and puts the bigger dogs in their place .

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Originally Posted by Sharon

LOL You don't want to rent this guy. He eats strangers for breakfast. :)

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I am not a stranger...he met me and karen this spring.:thumbup:

Oh yes. I forgot.:)

YD: The setters back down for this 25 pound terrier too. Getting less to eat , he is of course finished first. I have to watch he doesn't intimidate them out of their food. They will back off and let him eat their dinner if I am not there.