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Looking at starting a camp and wanted to get an idea of what people are charging for the year at there camp? Enough to cover taxes? improvements? or just do a few work weekends? any info would be great also wondering about structure...I think its easier with one owner and members having a yearly membership with everyone having a vote on certain things...what do you think?
Family pays nothing, we do the work during the hunts and have a couple work weekends a year.
Non-family pays $90/day. Gets you three hearty meals a day and a bed to sleep in. Also covers butchering fees.
Its enough to cover insurance, taxes, small improvements and of course the food costs.
Our camp is equally owned by 3 of us. We charge nothing to guests but am thinking we need to start some kind of contribution from them.
I was thinking if your a member 500 for the year plus two work weekends (beer weekends lol) would be fair enough to keep everything going?
40$/day for everyone including the owners. Include everything (food, sleep, butcher.....) but booze.
We are all friend or family so helping has never be an issue (building addition, gathering firewood, you name it...).
Members =$150.00 week. This includes all groceries, mix, insurance on camp gas for generator and ofah yearly renewal. Byob and gas for 4 wheeler.
Non members= $200.00 week. Includes all they can eat. Byob and gas for 4 wheeler.
We do our own meat processing.
We have ten members and all fees for lodging (cottage rental includes gas for BBQ,generator) and groceries are shared equally. Any alcohol,gas and special items required by members are their own responsibilty. We can go up for a week,eat like pigs,live like kings,be comfortable,warm and dry and have a whale of a time for around $225 each,not including license fees or booze and gas to get there. Geez,I got the itch already.
I guess it depends on the group of guys. Ideally you all split everything and that is the end of it, but you have to consider that work at the camp, or on the camp if owned by group members, is generally not split.
What I wanted to do at our camp was have a set daily cost and allow the guys to get their daily cost back based on days of work during the week. Maybe something like 1 work day equals 1 hunt day or something like that. This helps out the guys who are a little strapped for cash and helps you when you need to do renos or any other camp tasks.
I ended up working my butt off all year, every month to have everything ready for the hunting week and then during the week watched a few people sit on their butt and do nothing, not even the dishes because they "paid" to be there, like I did nothing to contribute.
Camps are complicated, it is like having room mates, if you have good ones you are in good shape, bad ones ruin a hunt.
I charge nothing. We're a small camp of about 6 or 7. Everyone contributes food, brings their own booze and pulls their weight throughout the week. Everyone has also put in their share of sweat equity in terms of off season work and donated materials. It worked well for us for almost 20 years.
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Originally Posted by Fox
Wise words and this is how we do it now. We are a friend/family group of 5 or 6 that split off from a family camp that was established back in the mid-late 1800's. There was always tension and friction between these guys and those guys, some pulled their weight, some freeloaded on the sweat and money of others. 100+ years and it started to sour I suppose. We broke off and started our own in the manner that TPM describes and all has been well for the last 5 years or so. The old camp has since been sold, I guess maybe there was nobody left to do the work.Quote:
Originally Posted by TPM
Yup. My group spent an entire weekend arguing about who paid for this, who paid for that, I deserve this, I deserve that and so on and so on. I put my head in my hands and basically had to leave. I just don;t see it being that complicated, but some people just can't see it that way....Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Anyone need a guy in their camp - Im looking for next year??
Wouldn't that be nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by TPM
I own the camp - so my rules. Simple rules. Be safe, friendly and courteous to all, or "don't be a dick". Need to be clear on safety - things like no booze in the bush and no loaded guns in camp and all guns away before the bar opens. I collect $100 a head per year for gas and propane which I keep stocked, and require a spring and fall work weekend. Bring your own food and drink. We split the butchering costs. Good group of guys so they all contribute more. Most every bottle brought up ends up in camp bar inventory. Jerry cans of gas brought for ATVs are always emptied before leaving, whether into generator or a camp can. People install and donate tree stands, which they have first claim on opening days. No one owns a specific bunk - first come first claim so everyone comes early. Work on building the right group of guys and everything can be worked out. Tell new people up front that there may not be space next year because others might come back, so you have a polite reason to tell them they can not come back.
I hear you and know your pain. We have the same in our camp. We have the doers and slugs and when the doing stops mother nature takes back the camp. If you start a camp you better have everything in writing and I mean everything. I would never do it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeakyBoots
Setting expectations up front is important, and written rules are good. But if you need to have a written contract with someone to do their share then just don't have them back. If it is an equal membership club, then more need for written rules and an "annual meeting" where they are approved. Elect a president for a year - who is exempt fees - since it is a ton of work. If it is a big enough group do it right - Incorporate. Have corporate bylaws, sell shares to members and have a provision to force them to sell back if they are kicked out. Have a 3 person executive, President, Camp Boss, and Secretary/Treasurer who have authority to do everything.
I own my camp and so to be fair to myself I should recoup some money. So for example if the camp kit and caboodle is worth 200,000 and in the bank at even at 2% interest I would earn 4,000 dollars plus property taxes were now at 5,000. That is the simple math but there is definitely more expenses...generator breaks down, sharpening chain saws, gas, propane, lawn mowers, tires for the tractor and so on and on it goes. If 2 guys stayed in a motel it would be $100 or $50 each and then they need a place to hunt.
I charge $30 dollars for a day of hunting during the gun hunts and you bring your own breakfast /lunch foods which can and does get pot lucked or leftovers. You and a partner are responsible for one dinner (and it better be good not last years venison) including clean up.
If you want to bow hunt or come up for the weekend it is usually granted based on your off season contribution which includes 2 work weekends. If that does not seem like a pretty good deal all I have to say is don't let the gate hit you on the arse on your way out. Red
I do the groceries and buy breakfasts and lunches and we split that bill. Every hunter is responsible to supply, cook and clean up for one dinner for the camp. That way everybody is up at bat one night from appetizers to main course, dessert and the wine. People supply their own alcohol and snacks. Camp chores like cabin maintenence and trail maintenance is shared by all of us. We haven't killed does for a few years and are still holding out due to dropping populations but when we do start again the rules are if you don't apply for a doe tag then you can't party hunt somebidy else's. Too lazy or disorganized to apply then you are buck hunting only. All meat is shared. Gasoline for the generator and propane for the stove & BBQ is also split evenly. We take turns towing in the knucklehead with the Arctic Cat ATV too.........:silly:
Well lads you can charge all you want to use your camps BUT the moment money changes hand up goes the LIABILITY.
Probably not much good me explaining what might happen if a paying guest falls out of a tree stand and breaks his spine.
Talk with a good lawyer friend and find out what you and your estate might be in for,then call your insurance company and get a quote on commercial insurance for a hunt camp and after that decide how much you need to charge.Or you could simply hope for the best.
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Originally Posted by Gilroy
Ain't that the truth. Especially now since a lot of camps aren't all family run anymore and are being filled with random people off the street.
Family and friends will sue you just as easy as a stranger.Quote:
Originally Posted by x_xeon_x
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp Red Maple
You need to do a better job of picking your hunting buddies.
The fact you charge money does not change things dramatically and the fact you win or lose in court can still cost you a lot of money...I think you over simplify the issue but please if you could allow yourself to back off with your condescending attitude...because if you were so smart you would not even waste your time replying lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Random people off the street? Not our camp and we aren't actually family even if our kids call every member Uncle. I trust my hunting buddies more than my family actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by x_xeon_x
I see your new to the forum..welcomeQuote:
Originally Posted by Camp Red Maple
Oh and that's just Gilroy...part of his charm..it grows on you in time..LOL...
Sorry but I do not agree..get a lawyer talking to the family and telling them its there responsibility to collect the 2 million...its not your buddy your have to worry about...wow talk about living in a dreamworld lol
terrym...it all sounds nice but the reality is look at the mob and turning state evidence...you never know or can say anything until you have been put in that position.
especially when they tell the grieving family that it's OK because your insurance will pay it, not you...so it OK...Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp Red Maple
Yep. You people need to find better friends and hunting partners. Not real worried about the mob with the crew I hunt with.
I would have great difficulty dealing with people that can't get along when we're supposed to be enjoying the camaraderie of the camp and the hunt. Sorry,but,I couldn't be part of that nonsense. The hunting seasons along with life is too short.
We take our hunting very seriously. I have hunted with the same guys for close to 30 years now. We weeded out the ones that don't understand many years ago.
I am not sure why you are assuming I have any trouble in my camp because in 40 years I have not. I do not think that in regards to someone suing me that it could not happen because it could and it would be out of my control. You seem to have absolute certainty because of your ability to pick people it would not happen to you and thats great. What is your secret do you introduce them to your dog's and see what they think of them lolQuote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Sometimes,it's not only an injured person that starts the law suit. Depending on severity like a debilitating injury or fatality,an irate family can really make life miserable for any camp owner and members designated as camp "directors",especially,if huge medical bills that aren't covered,rehab,continuous care or funeral expenses are factored in. Ambulance-chasing lawyers are only too eager to cash in. There seems to be lots of them around,anymore.LOL
We do not run a commercial camp. Do not charge for lodging and do not supply treestands. We hunt 100% Crown land. Seeing as 3 members are police officers and one is an Ontario Conservation officer we have a pretty solid understanding of all liability laws and firearms legislation and Provincial game laws and land use. 4 of the members are CPR trained and one in fact is a certified CPR instructor. By all means if you feel the members of your camp or their families are the type to sue you for their personal injuries or are prone to such incidents then get a lawyer to draw up a release and have it signed by all. We just choose members very carefully. I think if you were to poll the camps in Ontario not many would have its members sign releases. Hunting season is around the corner boys, best get your personal attorneys lined up and retainer fees paid in full. This mentality is why it is so hard to get invited to established deer camps now and why so many are frustrated trying to get into it. I will sight in the rifles and start working the dog on wild birds. .:rolleyes:
We're not a commercial camp either. I own the land and my buddies come hunt it with me. My insurance company knows this and has no problem with it. All they wanted to know was approximately how many guys hunt it and on average how many days a year we hunt.
You guys have a requirement for Ofah or other insurance?
I did it with our camp as we have my land plus a couple of permission places. It helped with the other land owner to put there mind at ease.
At my camp there is no fees. We do have work weekends. Each year each hunter donates something like a stand, trail camera, or a tent or something they feel the camp needs. One year a guy brought up vice grips and plyers as he didn't like my home hand me downs and we needed them. If we bait mineral or anything else we all pitch in. We have a welder that built some stuff including a trailer for the bush. We split food and butchering. Alcohol you are on your own.
Welcome to the website I can tell we will get along just fine.LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Camp Red Maple
If you charge money I believe it does materially change things.Your arrangement with your guest may be seen as a CONTRACT in the eyes of the law.IMHO
I guess the best test would be simply asking your insurance company if you are covered by an activity like hunting.After all it might be seen as a "risky" type of sport,what with guns and all being around and maybe even fired.
Would it be considered a "material change" between yourself and your insurance company,who although happy to cover you for damage to your roof,or a fire, might say if a paying guest fell from a tree stand "we are not covering you as you did not tell us you
were having people hunt on your property".
P.S. This has come up before on the site http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...t-on-your-land
I certainly do not profess to have all or even any of the answers and I like running a camp less and less every year for all the reasons stated herein. We have OFAH insurance as a camp and I charge to cover costs which I would not even get half of them back. Its like being in the bush during hunting season...you take your chances.
I see what your saying... however. . What I'd the payment is for room and board only...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
If some is hurt so badly they can't possibly work the rest of their life, they're going to have to sue just to support their living costs. If you're best friend is hurt by falling out of a treestand and they are rendered paraplegic they have to sue in the hope that they can win some money to support themselves the rest of their life. They'll sue everybody ....treestand manufacturer, the guy that put the stand up, the harness maker, the supervisor of the hunt camp etc.
I don't necessarily agree with the logic but that's the world we live in these days.
Or his family will if hes killed. Or his insurance company if they do a payment out to him.
We were upfront with our insurance company aboit hunting and they raised our rates a bit. We also require all hunters to have personal liability from the OFAH.
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Originally Posted by DanO
LMAO :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Our camp (20 guys) is incorporated, which means we have an elected president, vice president, secretary, and treasurer. We hold an annual meeting. No one person owns it, but we have set fees. Annual dues are $150, with new members paying an additional $100 initiation fee. Camp fees throughout the year are $10 per trip for members, and $25 per trip for non members. The cost for a week during moose hunting is $200 for a member, and $350 for a non member, all inclusive (food, drink, beer, liquor, gas for all equipment, propane, etc.). Money generated is used for camp up keep, equipment maintenance (4 boats, several outboards, a couple generators, chainsaw, gas water pump), and taxes. Stipulation for members is to belong to the OFAH, which makes us an OFAH member club, allowing us to take advantage of their first party club insurance and cheaper membership rates.
Brush up on the Ontario Building Code when it comes to building Cabins. Most townships has a similair code or regulations.
http://www.hastingshighlands.ca/buildingpermits.php
Think I broke a lot of rules.
- Additions to existing buildings or structures.
- New or replacement decks.
- Wood burning appliances, including new or replacement of existing components.
- Replacement of windows or doors if the rough opening size is enlarged.
- Relocation or addition of plumbing fixtures.
- Replacement of interior water supply or drain pipes.
- New buildings or structures greater than 10 square metres (108 ft²) in total floor area, measured by the outside dimensions, or any size if they include services. This includes sheds, sleeping cabins or other accessory buildings or structures, including sheds and shed packages purchased from a store.
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Originally Posted by line052
I wonder if "Hunt Camps' fall under any scrutiny by the townships....I'm sure most are considered temporary structures and building permits not required.Quote:
Originally Posted by line052
Ours is a parked school bus with a portable summer kitchen sitting on blocks...don't think permits or building codes entered the discussion of that project :)
Depends on who complains.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
We have a friend who bought some land that used to be in the family 50 years ago. I guess someone else wanted to buy it but at a fraction of what it was worth. This friend was going to build a 16x24 cabin and went out to get all the proper permits. The building was 5km by atv back into the bush, they actually had to have the inspector (who was a friend of theirs) hope on the side by side and take him in. On the trip in he said "why get a permit out here, you should have just built the cabin" only to have someone call in a complaint about a cabin being built on private property not 1 week later.
It all depends on who the neighbours are.
A lot of the issues regarding building permits depend on whether you are in an organized or unorganized township. An unorganized area gives you a lot of freedom to do as you like.
No doubt,the complainant is the guy who couldn't make the deal. It's sour grapes or small town petty politics. This would be a good reason to use portable,temporary camps. People can b**ch all they want,but,they can't do anything about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
$350/hunter per week and trail maintenance or blind construction labor. No prorating ...pay for the week even if you only come up for a day. Basically covers taxes +15%