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How many times did the Teacher's Union say it wasn't about money? How many times did Wynne say there was a salary freeze and no money for raises? Who knew? Turns out not only are there raises but they found money too...
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/22...yment-briefing
Looks like a win but without seeing what was given up, too early to tell if it's truly a win....
A 2.5% over 5 years (wage freeze the previous two years) isn't really too much...Not that I am justifying teachers wages, just saying 2.5% over 5 years isn't all that much.
When you are in a deficit, there is no money for raises.
The other Unions will just sit in the bush now until old horse faced Wynne greases their palms with a raise as well.
I take exception to your remark! It's the other end of the horse that she truly resembles!Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxx
That remark really made my day ! Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha.:goodstuff::goodstuff::goodstuff:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
Fatri.
How does one figure 2.5% for 5 years??
In no other world except perhaps PS does anyone look at it that way. In years we got no raises, it's water under the bridge. When it comes around again we don't ask for catch up or back pay, nor do we say, well we haven't gotten one in X years. If we get cost of living (1.5%) we get 1.5% for that year.
I have no sympathy for teachers. They are well paid, well compensated especially given they only work about 40 weeks of the year. You are aware the vast majority of people don't make that (aka mean duo income is 70k)?
I have "sympathy" for the hundreds of thousands who lost jobs, who have been ignored, and who work just as hard and are seeing Hydro explode, taxes explode, can't save and don't have pensions.
And they (teachers and their Unions) are a very big reason, why the province is trashed. In so much as, they more than any other group have campaigned to keep this admin in power and benefitted over the years from. No one to blame but themselves. Seriously what a bunch of "whiners". First they spend millions in attacks ads, campaign for them (his) vote for them time and time and time again (you made the bed)….then "cry" when the money runs dry.
"A win"
for whom I wonder?
Theres a hell of a lot more to the province than just teachers and PS.
/points at 800,000 people without GPs
/Points at rural area's where there are shortages of Drs/Nurses
/Points at wait times
/points at the North and so many things there
/points at the MoE and MNR who combined get less, than this will likely cost once you factor in the benefits/sick time.
/rural areas decimated by job losses, and now Hydro bills
/and so much more.
**
I don't begrudge the raise at all, they like the peons breaking their backs are feeling it to, have kids to. Its a little less than what the peons paying for everything are seeing (aka its realistic).
However sick time and benefits?
Last I checked Teachers had great benefits already and there are certainly millions more in greater need.
Maybe one Day the Liberals and PS Unions will remember theres far more to the province than just themselves, and lets not forget the ESST is just one of many crying (Hammonds is demanding 3% and cost of living). Wasn't it about "class sizes"
?
Heres a hard truth for any teachers reading this.
You just got call it 1.5% to help offset exposing hydro, taxes, food increases, gas taxes, more..
The peons are losing another 1.9% (ORRP).
good job
Its easy math..... 0% for 2 previous years....2.5% for these 3 years.... total 2.5% for 5 years...Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Anyway before we all get our tights into a knot, do we know what if anything was given up for this raise? Maybe they removed sick days or maybe not, I guess my point is all the facts are not out and we all know how the media just loves putting out partial information to stir the pot.... best to wait for all the facts...
So suck it up like evyerone else has.
Its 1% this year, next year and then .5%
Its not 2.5% for 5. You make it sound like you've been hard done by. Try walking a mile in the average persons shoes, or say someone who lives in rural Ontario where jobs……
Whats "done is done"
Honestly, I have good friends that are teachers, family and no the job isn't what many teacher haters say. However I am sick and tired of teachers bellyaching and its been like for 20 years.
And the fact is, they more than anyone benefitted (prior to 2010), have it very good compared to the vast bulk of tax payers
and are largely responsible for this admin being elected and staying in power. They made their own beds.
and oh, what a surprise now that Ms Wynne has a federal election to win the ESST are going to be campaigning for her.
The sad thing is that the sheep swallow anything they are fed. The teachers always claim the high ground that it "is for the children". Well if in fact this is a net zero contract then some other expenditure has to be cut. So what was it? Custodians? How will reducing maintenance and hygiene in the schools " help the children"? Books? Information technology based tools? How does this benefit the children? They got better health benefits, another paid day where they don't teach and signing bonus and a raise. I'm sure some progressive here can explain to me how giving more money to teachers and reducing thier work load actually benefits anybody but them. PD days have value if they actually are used to upgrade teaching skills. If they are used for union business then they don't. Why they don't use March break, Xmas, Easter to have these PD days puzzles me. Clearly the union doesn't care much about the amount of days taught to kids when they negotiate contracts. The teachers all had extracurricular activites available to them during their school years. If they found this offensive and unfair why did they get into the profession fully knowing this is how the profession has operated for years? Kind of like moving beside an airport and complaining about the noise.
Well that's where I try to separate teachers (or any other field in PS) from the Unions. But yes obviously Terry the union doesn't care, not about the peons, not about whats occurring in Ont, not about the kids (funny how no mention of what's going to be cut to find the $) comes from their lips.
And oh isn't the timing of all this just peachy. When JT looks to be on the ropes and Wynne needs storm troopers, and $ for ads and
What a crock.
Teachers used to get respect. And they wonder why the public hates them now. No one to blame but their Union
With the Liberal Provincial electoral machine, PS union money from both the Province and Feds attacking Harper, mix in the media and CBC he doesn't have a chance. Prepare yourself for an NDP government in Ottawa and a crooked Liberal one in Queen's Park. If you are on the public payroll its the lottery win. If not your standard of living is spiralling into the hopper. It was just leaked that Wynne suppressed FOI requests about her plans for toll roads in Ontario. This was hidden from the public prior to the election but is about yo be introduced. It seems every day there is some new lie or coverup and she just cackles as she gives us the bird.
What people don't realize is that PS unions are now running the country. Why does the head of a "Ontario" teacher's union rallying opposition to a Federal party have to do with working conditions of its dues paying membership? Education is Provincial jurisdiction. They rule Ontario and are about to rule Canada.
Not sure about ruling Cda but am sick of it, their defenders etc. It's pretty damn obvious who pulls the strings, who gets greased and why.
Who pays for it all.
Not sure how many can sleep at night, especially in light of all the problems, things and people being "ignored" and more.
Yeah. You and me pay for it all. That's why we need our sleep. Nose to the grindstone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
LMAO well said but a real insult to a horse...what do people expect from a LYING LIEBERAL who just BUYS her votes vs earning them! Time to get rid of that PHONY BIITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well BM, though there are signs more people are fed up with corruption and um, obvious "favouritism". And now that the years of waste, spending, bloat and brain cramps (Hydro) are coming home roost as predicted but many more refused to see/beleivue..and it's hitting people hard..
Will still have the puppet masters and their minions who think they are the only people in Ont behind them.
Either one is fitting Bullmoose as well as Lieberal crook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
I found a better use for the face and neck picture. Open picture on computer, stretch the neck, pull the nose in Photoshop...voila, instant Turkey pattern target. Life like and enjoyable to shoot with a laugh each time. Ensure to print on paper before shooting...you only make that mistake once...lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
I am not surprised. It was leaked last month that the teachers wanted more money. I am also not surprised that the media has spun this 'net-zero' raise as a great thing. Great for the kids, great for teachers. Lets all sing and dance.
Let's take a look at what is really going on. First off, there are some 78000 teachers as part of this agreement. I would offer their average salary is $70K/year with a final raise of 2.5% ... $136,500,000.00 I don't believe that this will be a net-zero scenario. Where are they going to find $136.5M? This government can't find their arses with both hands. The sheep will simply look at the 2.5% and think "Oh, well not that much!"
Is there something wrong with my math? Am I thinking there is something not right here? Yup... more smoke and mirrors - lies and deception. Oh and yes, I am not surprised!
Using these assumptions.
78,000 ESST teachers
$65,000 average salary today.
Net cost in salary will be $127,766,535.
Consider to, that as each Teachers salary increases, so to does their Pension Benefit.
Consider to, that the improved benefits will have a price tag, as will the sick time.
Total Cost?
Who knows, 300million? 400million?
As I said earlier, this contract (factoring the different Unions) alone may cost as much or more than what the MNR/MoE get combined in total.
As individuals I have quite a bit of respect for the teachers I know. However I don't think they really have a grasp on reality (what life is like for others) but collectively as a group and their Union. No respect.
I cant think of any/many occasions when their contracts have come up and they haven't thrown a tantrum like spoiled brats, whose parents refuse to buy them the candy in the check out line. And they already live lives that are more than comfortable.
Couple that, with the Unions political involvement in elections, their entrenchment at Queens Park, the fact they are largely responsible for things.................
Hence my utter disdain/dislike for PS Unions and their hiprocisy about being champions of the working class. They are breaking the middle classes back.
This union is the least combative and militant of the three. Yet Wynne and company rolled over like a submissive puppy for them and handed them increases and not condensing class sizes despite saying no raises until the budget is balanced. However, does anyone else here honestly believe there would be another result. So we have one union down, and two more to go (the most difficult to negotiate with).
As others have pointed out in this thread, does anyone really think it is as small as the government claims keeping in mind the track record this government has when it comes to projecting costs? Or they will find savings to offset this cost? What is sad, based on the raise assumptions you guys have given that the raise itself costing close to $137 million, is that it will cost an Ontario tax payer $10/teacher (13.7 million population but probably more as not all of the population is actively paying taxes, think under 10) and it is getting to the point, I can't afford to pay that $10/teacher. This government is literally killing us by a death of a thousand cuts.
Dyth
This is still a great country to live in regardless who may be running it. All I will say is " If you don't vote .....don't b15ch ! "
I never did buy into that "If you don't vote, don't........"
A person who decides not to vote has every right to because sometimes there just isn't any candidate or party philosophy that agrees with that persons point of view.
Agree Sawbill.
But disagree in so much as depends on the specifics. Sometimes, maybe many times, who ultimately wins may not matter and so choosing to vote for no one because none seem a good choice is quite all right.
However
Apathy, is a reason (not the only) why the Liberals have gotten away with so much. Fooled so many and run this province into the ground. Couple that, with the influence some Unions have (which can't be understated) and well, "you get the gov't you deserve".
And today we are paying the prices. Obvious prices like increasing taxes, Hydro and more and there are many people getting hit hard. Less obvious prices like having to decide what is a priority for spending and what or who isn't. There are 800,000 people without GPs and that's just scratching the Healthcare debacle. Good to know the same old group are getting taken care of.
The squeaky wheel.....
Reports this morning that more Teachers Unions have come to an agreement. I'm betting they will be very similar.
Only the sun is asking "where will the money come from"..
Whether its school supplies, other areas of the Education portfolio (maybe EAs or custodians) or maybe Johhny Q and fancy bookkeeping.....I wonder if any teachers who read this thread might care to explain how that helps the "children"....Isnt it about them? isn't that what the Unions sold parents?
Apathy.
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/25...n-compensation
If you don't like this wonderful, freeQuote:
Originally Posted by longpointer
democratic country then leave too. But of course don't give up your citizenship because when you need your health care you will not be complaining. You will be happy you are Canadian. I am privileged to be a Canadian and live in a country that provides freedom, opportunities.