Dave's a Success

I missed my Dave's debut into the world of retrieving, at 11 months old all our training paid off this morning however.

I was supposed to hunt early goose opener with some friends but got called into work regardless. I let my good friend use him for the morning hunt and I have been told he did excellent!

Field hunting - Out of 28 birds, he retrieved 18 of them. The ones he didn't find were either on the field edge in the thick brush, or multiple birds dropped at once and he lost track of them.

Evidently I need to work more on his patience - when he sees the first bird drop he just wants to rocket out for it without waiting. All in good time, I was more-so shocked he'd retrieve for someone else and not just me - I feel betrayed :)

Can't wait for Saturday to see him at work myself (now, you wait and see - I won't see any birds :))

Nice! i cant wait to see wath Ben's first reall hunt is goin turn out like! No birds here in my spots yet so i ave a little more time to work on him

We have about four birds in our lake at the hunting camp, which is where we'll be this weekend but one of the guys coming for the weekend (who also borrowed Dave this morning) is a waterfowl outfitter and his calls are bang-on. He's pretty certain, if anything flies over-head he can bring them into the decoys.

I'm hoping :)

You could always stake him out if you have to, you definitely don't want him breaking. Good that he's picking up birds though! I would take a tie-out with you this weekend, that way if you happen to not be paying attention to the dog and are shooting, he won't be able to go anywhere. By staying in one spot he'll be improving his marking as well. Not ideal, but better than the alternative.

Always learning something, and sometimes it's good to share - so others don't make the same mistake.

After making my original post I received a message from a forum member whom I trust, and whose opinion I respect. He noted a couple things I should and shouldn't be doing, it's worth mentioning here so others don't make the same mistakes.

The primary thing worth mentioning: Don't loan your dog out - I did so because I loaned him out to a friend who is also an outfitter (although Dave wasn't working during an outfitted hunt, it was the outfitters own private hunt). I justified my actions because I was supposed to be hunting with him, and we were looking forward to letting Dave get on some birds, I had to cancel at the last minute. The forum member remarked that just because he's an outfitter doesn't mean he knows how to properly work with a dog.

Makes complete sense to me, when the forum member mentioned that Dave has now successfully learned there is no consequence for breaking early since he was allowed to do it all morning. Thus, placing my dog at risk in someone else's hands.

Just putting that out there - thanks to the forum member, if he wishes to come forward publicly with his opinion I don't mind and feel no shame; making mistakes is one way of learning.

Another forum member experienced the same breaking with his Lab, he now has a pretty neat blind for him with a loaded door that he can release when it's time for the dog to work.

I always found it strange when watching waterfowl shows, just how many dogs break as soon as the first shot rings out, but it appears as that is the expected behaviour or desired result.

I'm no expert, but what I've seen on TV hunting shows has not been what I strive for with my dogs. Their emphasis seems to be on killing stuff and high fiving, whereas I'd take fewer birds in the bag and better dog work at the end of the day.

As an aside, Jeff, I'm doing a tracking test with the two Britts today. Wish me luck. There are 6 dogs testing, and we will have 28 degrees and big breeze by afternoon. Lots of ground moisture, so I hope it sticks around enough to help us a little. Test day is always a crapshoot. Have a great day in the field with Dave!

Well - the weekend update. Dave does indeed retrieve - we only got three birds down. We hunted over water, and he needed a bit of prompting (in the form of small pebbles tossed at the mark, and voice commands) to find the birds but over all he did great. I kept him on leash most of the time this time, which seemed to work.

He still tries to break early, but we're working on it for sure.

Way to go. You're going to have such fun with Dave. Our tracking test didn't go so well. We got off line and had two callbacks, but then settled down and finished it well. The other dog did pretty much the same. Because it was the first test for all the handlers, the judges offered us the opportunity to make it a training session after the second callback, and they coached us as we finished the rest of the course. It worked out well and we all learned a lot. We are starting from zero, and so there's only one way to go, and that's up!

Sounds great marysburg - it sounds like you have an overall successful day as well. Keep your chin up and make sure to ask as many questions as needed to get the best answer. As I mentioned at the BGBTO seminar - there is no "right" or "wrong" way to teach blood tracking, you need use those methods as a basis and find what works best for your dog.

I'm helping a friend train a very young blue-tick on blood tracking, she is 10 weeks old. The thing I'm trying to explain however is; for now, it is a game. It needs to be fun, but productive - don't expect too much from the pup at the moment, but keep it fun and interactive. I'm having him focus more-so on respect training at the beginning, introducing blood in short (5-10 feet long) runs, and letting the dog wander off course. When the pup comes back to the line and you see that "Oh, HEY!" moment from her, praise the hell out of her. The real training will come soon enough, but without that strong line of respect there first all the rest of the training might as well not happen.

On the subject of Dave:

Well - I come to find out, after I posted the last message - I might have made a big mistake with Dave again however; I'm kind of disappointed in myself. We had three decoys that had floated off and were too shallow for the boat to retrieve so we had Dave retrieve them. While he did a fantastic job and brought them back without a scratch - a fellow retriever owner friend remarked to me "That was the worst thing you can teach him to do." ugh!

Can anyone remark on this? I thought it was awesome - means I can water hunt, from shore using decoys and I can just have the dog bring them in for me when I'm done hunting. However, as he explained - the decoys stand out better than real birds and he might get confused as to what he's supposed to be retrieving.

Man, I should research and read this stuff before attempting it. It sounded like a good idea at the time, but now I'm not so sure and somewhat confused about it.

Thoughts? Anyone?

We spread decoys all over the lawn and did land retrieves through them to teach the dogs to ignore the decoys before we moved the exercise to the water. Your friend is probably right, just get a pole with a hook on the end to recover your decoys, and let Dave get the live ones. No worries, Dave sounds like a great pup.

marysburg is right. Decoys can be distracting enough. Plus, if you accept him retrieving them if you get into a situation where the dog is unable to locate a downed bird, once he gets frustrated he may just go get a decoy since he has been praised/allowed to do it in the past. Decoys are best left as something to be ignored.

So Jeff.....you are just starting to experience what happens when dogs have not been through a sequential training program and their handlers are keen to get them into the real thing...'hunting' before they have the skills.

Google Mike Lardy's training chart and start to look at what the 'Basics' look like and do a little checking with Dave's skills at present compared to the chart. It is certainly the best description of required skills and the order in which to teach them.

So to help here, consider the following:
-go back and teach 'sit'. Sit means sit, don't confuse him with other commands like stay......sit means sit. After he is sitting while you move he may be ready to throw some bumpers for him. You must insist he sit while you do this. Put a rope on him if you have to restrain him but for sure he does not get any reward for breaking(as you know he got rewarded 18 times the first day). A good suggestion is for you to stand between Dave and the bumper so you can stop him(called being the Traffic Cop by Bill Hillman) Sequence is first to sit, then to sit when a bumper is thrown, then sit when a bumper and shot, then sit for a bird thrown, then sit for a bird and shot........No shortcuts here if you are serious about steadying Dave.

-teach here and like sit....here means here! No side trips or around the trees.

-teach him to sit on the whistle...one blast means stop and sit, can be done in conjunction with the above. This is a skill that will allow you to teach some handling skills shortly and provide a skill for Dave's safety.

-get some decoys out as suggested. First on lawn then on water. Bumpers first then birds thrown on the other side of decoys. Get him comfortable going through them and just ignoring them but of course not avoiding them.

-No more decoy retrieving. Find a place where he has to run/swim a fair distance past the decoys to make a retrieve. If you don't he'll only go as far as the decoys and quit his search early. You won't be able to always throw a stone far enough and there is some easy strategies to teach lining .....just ask Cass, his little spaniel has been put through a non slip retriever program and performs those skills very well....lines and handles very well.

Hard work but you have to be on top of the teaching. They don't get these skills without practise. Be fair to the dog, if you think he has potential then be prepared to take him through an organised, solid program.

Good luck.

The above is pretty minimal before I'd have him out hunting

Dare I assume you've taught him entry/exit skills for a boat/canoe such that you don't do some late fall swimming yourself?

Fantastic information here. Lining and handling skills are something that make hunting with your dog way more enjoyable. But those skills start at the most basic which is sit and here. From there you have a good base to build on. Accept only the best. Saying "its good enough" when you're out training, means when you're actually in an exciting/distracting/stressful situation is a guarantee that it won't be anything close to that when hunting. Two quotes I like about dog training - "You own what you condone" and "In the end, we all get the dog we deserve".

Thanks for taking the time to post your reply Krakadanw!