Grizzly Bear Shooting Video Reignites B.C. Hunting Debate

Sparking new outrage towards hunters....

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The Wildlife Defence League found the video on a hunter's Facebook page, according to the Globe and Mail. The group said it doesn't know where or when the video was filmed, but decided to share it publicly anyway.

"We want people to see that this is how grizzly hunting exists across the board, whether it's in British Columbia or not," the group said in an email to HuffPost B.C. "Trophy hunting of predators is unsustainable and unethical and we're hoping this footage puts forces the government to take note and move towards banning the hunt."

The video does not reflect responsible hunting, the past president of the Guide Outfitters Association of B.C. told the Globe and Mail.

"They were making bad comments, they’re sensationalizing the suffering of an animal. We don’t endorse that. That’s not what we’re about, and I’m disappointed," Mark Werner said in an interview with the newspaper.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09...n_8113376.html

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fIpVnSR-qE

Wow - that was a nasty death.

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Originally Posted by Roper

Wow - that was a nasty death.

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For sure ! I can see how the antis will get lots of mileage out of that video !

Its already being called Canada's cecil the lion moment.

Sheesh, wheres that OOD member with the sling shot. He'd do a better job.

It's unfortunate that any knucklehead with a go-pro or camera
can post stuff on social media now. Unfortunately this video is 1/2 poor shooting and 1/2 physics.

There'll be great difficulty reconciling this video. I cringe to think how often this happens. We all like to think and strive for an ethical one shot-one kill scenario,but,in reality,this can happen especially depending on the character and skill level (or lack thereof) of the hunter and guide.

Bad shot or poor choice of caliber and load....

Stupid idiots were dumb enough to post it too. Doesn't take much of a brain to figure what the reaction would be to a video like that. Clueless twits.

Cheers

nothing to be proud of there.

Why would they post that??

The look of the spotter/guide says it all. Who would show this & why not edit?

It's unfortunate that that people like this call them selves Hunter. NOT

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

There'll be great difficulty reconciling this video. I cringe to think how often this happens. We all like to think and strive for an ethical one shot-one kill scenario,but,in reality,this can happen especially depending on the character and skill level (or lack thereof) of the hunter and guide.

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Why the f**k would they post something like that!!!! Hunting grizzly has been a dream of mine and now how am i going to explain to the wife and kids or any non hunter wat a grizzly hunt means to me!

I agree with everyone and I don't understand why they would share that (unless it's a conspiracy!!!) and I can't stand their reaction either but if you think about it, how many time have we seen a goose get shot at, drop on the ground and run gut/wings shot.... Then a second shot follow and that still doesn't kill it or a dog that run after it and bring it back half alive. It's all over the media.... To me it's just the same and doesn't bother me that much sometime thing go sideway for "Everyone", somehow in this forum all hunter are "one shot kill", but it seems like we all get more sensitive for furry animals. If you don't want to see wounded game, don't hunt!
In this case I have the feeling he didn't choose the right gun for the job, probably one of those guys that preach that big gun are not better, just like a 243 is a great 200lbs+ deer. Sure it is if all goes well and for experienced hunter, but unfortunately things happen and the more powder and the bigger the hole the more chance to DOT. (just my opinion)

We as hunters know that the vast majority of the time ethical hunters make clean effective kills because of our knowledge of the animal, our choice of equipment and practice, but the reality of the situation is that there are many more people out there that do not understand this. So when 1 out 1000 videos posted online shows a negative situation, they are often used by anti hunting groups to smear the image of ALL hunters. I refuse to criticize this hunt because I don't know enough about what happened, but I do criticize the fact that they didn't acknowledge how this would effect our image and that they failed to realize not everyone hunts and would view this for what they see. Sometimes a little common sense goes along ways. It was rough to see and if I were the hunter in that video I would have been crushed emotionally and would have been embarrassed to have this posted publicly.

Grizzly hunting in BC goes to the media each season, spring and fall. A video like this does hunters no favors at all. Anti hunters will always be against hunting. However there's many people out their who don't know a lot about hunting and their opinion on hunting may not be decided yet. Video's like this will easily make up their mind.

I enjoy videoing my hunts like many others and sharing them with people. That's one film I wouldn't be showing off and definitely not proud of the shooting. Too laugh at the animal as its sliding down the hill after you have shot at it 5,6, 7 times is shameful and sickening. It happens a lot in BC, for sheep hunters and mountain goats. They tend to roll a long ways before finally stopping. That's what happens in the terrain they live in. But the way these guys react after firing so many shots is disgusting. Should of just taken photos after wards and shared those instead.

Please, if you do a filming & want to show your hunt think of non hunters & edit parts which wouldn't be handled well by others who don't. As hunters we deal with the kill. It's part of the hunt, but the general public can't deal with this. They're accustomed to getting their meat products in a prepared pkg or on a plate. I'm not ashamed to hunt but the images displayed with all the shots, the language & demanour used doesn't help. We lost our spring bear hunt for years just by misinformation & repeated comments about orphaned cubs due to hunters shooting the mother. Can you imagine what videos like this will do? I could see an anti photo shopping a cub or Cubs standing back on the side of the hill while their mother was shot, even though they wouldn't know the difference between a boar or a sow or the whole story. Just puts a black cloud over my pastime.

Driving home from camp yesterday this was being talked about on AM radio and it seemed indefensible just listening to the audio. The video makes it worse.

It's incomprehensible that someone would even save a video like that. If that was me and my hunt - of any animal that died like that, after watching it once, I'd be, 'Destroy it'. But one of these fricken geniuses decides it's worthy to post it on the internet. I'd have no sympathy if someone tracked them down and identified them.

Stupid comments but those bears are tough. Not all animals die on the first shot. Maybe bad shooting but all the shoots were a moving target. I will at least give him credit for trying to end the animals suffering. I am sure when hunting one of the big 5 they all do not go down on the first shot. Maybe if we compare some videos of a slaughter house the anti's will not be so harsh. Trust me wild tv shows are worse and not all big bears go down on the first shot. Posting the videos was a dumb as$$ move.. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V-RwqjtQmm8

I saw nothing wrong with the vid
He was hunting griz and shot and killed a griz

What's the problem.

Do we all live in fairy tale land where the animal you are hunting stops perfectly broadside at twenty yards and let's you shoot him in the good stuff time after time until dead.
You take the shot on he first opportunity and don't stop shooting until it is down.

As stated above grizzly bears are supper tough.

I commend the hunter for ethically killing the bear.

The last deer I shot took a 50cal slug to both lungs and still ran 100 yards

No different.

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Originally Posted by stevietangles

I saw nothing wrong with the vid
He was hunting griz and shot and killed a griz

What's the problem.

Do we all live in fairy tale land where the animal you are hunting stops perfectly broadside at twenty yards and let's you shoot him in the good stuff time after time until dead.
You take the shot on he first opportunity and don't stop shooting until it is down.

As stated above grizzly bears are supper tough.

I commend the hunter for ethically killing the bear.

The last deer I shot took a 50cal slug to both lungs and still ran 100 yards

No different.

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I absoluterly agree. Not everything in hunting is "pristine". This shyte happens,but,I'd dearly love to sit the outfitter and photographer in a chair and slap them until their eyeballs rattle for a week. The humungous diservice they have done to the hunting community is inexcusable.

Large grizzlies are tough. The goal is to blow out the front shoulders on the first shot to immobilize them and finish them with second shot. What I don't understand is the need for people to be on video. That and the posting of it on the Internet. Idiots.

I agree that the distribution of the video online was not thought through.
More ammo for the anti's

This one is pretty simple. Regardless of the hunt and how it worked out, trophy photos would have been the way to go. That video should never have made it to the internet. A little common sense goes along way...

The ramifications of this video, in the hands of the right group, could bring an end to the Grizzly Bear Hunt in B.C.

This opinion piece points out the position it has put the B.C Government in.

No one will be to blame for this but the Hunters, not the anti's.....

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Why? In terms of any commerce that might be lost by ending this archaic pursuit, it’s been demonstrated by study after study that there is far more money to be made by giving people the thrill of seeing a grizzly in the wild than there is giving people the chance to kill them. Eco-tourism can and does provide plenty of jobs in remote parts of B.C., far more than guide outfitting does or ever will.

First Nations are adamantly against the sport-killing of grizzlies as well. Yes, the same First Nations communities whose support the B.C. government needs on so many levels these days. But call off this trophy hunt? Are you kidding, that would make a handful of guide outfitters unhappy and they support the Liberal Party.I challenge Premier Christy Clark to watch the shooting of that grizzly bear and allow this practice to continue. It is not like B.C. is being overrun by these creatures. And most people accept that grizzlies can and will continue to be hunted by First Nations, but only as a form of sustenance. The notion that some bozo can pay a guide to point him in the direction of a poor defenceless animal and be allowed to brutalize it to death is infuriating. And it has to end.

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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle26344883/

Sounds likes the Nazi won this time.
Thanks to the idiots!

That's hunting grizzlies for you. I see nothing wrong with that video and that version was edited by the antis. The first shot the guy took was already a kill shot imo but you gotta keep shooting til it drops.

Funny how the antis think that a grizzly is a "poor defenseless animal". They've probably never encountered one in the wild.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by stevietangles

I saw nothing wrong with the vid

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Originally Posted by Obi-wanShinobi

That's hunting grizzlies for you. I see nothing wrong with that video .

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If you truly don't see what is wrong in that video, your more a threat to our privileges as Hunters than any anti...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

If you truly don't see what is wrong in that video, your more a threat to our privileges as Hunters than any anti...

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I think the blood/snow effect is what make it looks bad, the bear died in a minute. I have tracked down deer that live a lot longer, hours, with a hole true them.

Whatever mike.
I will try and speak slowly so you understand.

There is nothing wrong with the video...

There is an issue with the global delivery of the video through the WWW.

if the hunter had not boasted about his kill on the Internet all would be well.

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Originally Posted by Wahoo

Driving home from camp yesterday this was being talked about on AM radio and it seemed indefensible just listening to the audio. The video makes it worse.

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A hunt I would never want to remember, and would be heart broken ever time it crossed my mind. AS for the Audio in the Video, there seems to be two different levels of quality. The Shots sounds like they are from a distance away, but the voices sound like they are very close and very clear. You can hear wind on the audio where the shots are but never along with the voices. Don't know how many of you guys would have "three microphones" to record sound on a hunt video. An external Omni Microphone recording from at least a hundred yards away, and two body microphones would be the only way you could do it in the field.. Or do "Voice overs" in a studio.

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Originally Posted by stevietangles

Whatever mike.
I will try and speak slowly so you understand.

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Just a quick count, but approximately 20 people on the thread, prior to your post, 'understood' the ramifications....you seem to have missed it.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Just a quick count, but approximately 20 people on the thread, prior to your post, 'understood' the ramifications....you seem to have missed it.

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Watch out for the sharp thing behind the flashing spinning thing....
https://falsefabs.files.wordpress.co.../12/trolls.jpg

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Just a quick count, but approximately 20 people on the thread, prior to your post, 'understood' the ramifications....you seem to have missed it.

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Agree with steve on this one. Only wrong is they actual posting of the video on the World Wide Web. Big bears are tough. That is real hunting big grizzly bears. They are tough and don't go down and roll over after the first shot. Black bears also can be the same. Guys get excited over a successful hunt. Happens all the time. I have jumped for joy and screamed to the sky after my first successful turkey hunt.

I just hope MNR is sensible enough to overlook the realities of Grizzly hunt. Although the distance was greater that I would feel comfortable shooting, especially between valley in mountains.

Imo , some of the posters on this thread should get down off their high horse and think for a minute or two.

The worst thing about this video is the fact that it went public. Next, do we know the origin of it? The authenticity? Could it have been doctored to illicit the exact negativity that some are giving it?

Take away the snow, the comments , the roll and I doubt we would have ever seen or heard about it!!

To put it in perspective, how many deer, moose, elk bears etcetera have been or will be shot this year that will be worse off than that bear!!

I won't go into detail for fear of offending someone on here or an anti reading the thread, but most will know what I mean!!

A couple of hints though, dogs, flashlights, trailing, tracking, back of the ribs shot placement and so on.

I am pretty sure most of you know what I am saying. And in reality it wasn't all that long before it expired, and it was recovered. I hope that will be the case for all of the aforementioned big game , small game ,waterfowl and upland birds this fall!! We can only hope, but in reality? .........

Take a minute and think back over the years Can anyone say they haven't witnessed, heard of or been part of worse scenarios than the video????

Food for thought??

It looks like the original Youtube posters decided to take down their video and their FB page...unfortunately the damage has been done, it's still out there.

Hopefully, in the future, Hunters will think twice before they post vidoes that shine a bad light on our sport.

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Originally Posted by bushman

Imo , some of the posters on this thread should get down off their high horse and think for a minute or two.

The worst thing about this video is the fact that it went public. Next, do we know the origin of it? The authenticity? Could it have been doctored to illicit the exact negativity that some are giving it?

Take away the snow, the comments , the roll and I doubt we would have ever seen or heard about it!!

To put it in perspective, how many deer, moose, elk bears etcetera have been or will be shot this year that will be worse off than that bear!!

I won't go into detail for fear of offending someone on here or an anti reading the thread, but most will know what I mean!!

A couple of hints though, dogs, flashlights, trailing, tracking, back of the ribs shot placement and so on.

I am pretty sure most of you know what I am saying. And in reality it wasn't all that long before it expired, and it was recovered. I hope that will be the case for all of the aforementioned big game , small game ,waterfowl and upland birds this fall!! We can only hope, but in reality? .........

Take a minute and think back over the years Can anyone say they haven't witnessed, heard of or been part of worse scenarios than the video????

Food for thought??

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I agree... good post! BUT, whomever put this out to the public needs their arse kicked !!!! I will hazard a guess that griz hunting in BC will be a thing of the past shortly !

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I agree... good post! BUT, whomever put this out to the public needs their arse kicked !!!! I will hazard a guess that griz hunting in BC will be a thing of the past shortly !

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Agreed Rick, I would be fighting for the front of the line with my steel toed work boots on , lol.

Hopefully we we will learn the origin, legitimacy and if there was any malicious intent right from the get go??

Looks like the Grizzlies may have a youtube account;

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Grizzly bear attack near Sparwood, B.C., makes 4 maulings this month

So far in B.C. this year, there have been seven grizzly bear attacks, compared to just three for all of 2014.

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read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...acks-1.3227490

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Originally Posted by bushman

Imo , some of the posters on this thread should get down off their high horse and think for a minute or two.

The worst thing about this video is the fact that it went public. Next, do we know the origin of it? The authenticity? Could it have been doctored to illicit the exact negativity that some are giving it?

Take away the snow, the comments , the roll and I doubt we would have ever seen or heard about it!!

To put it in perspective, how many deer, moose, elk bears etcetera have been or will be shot this year that will be worse off than that bear!!

I won't go into detail for fear of offending someone on here or an anti reading the thread, but most will know what I mean!!

A couple of hints though, dogs, flashlights, trailing, tracking, back of the ribs shot placement and so on.

I am pretty sure most of you know what I am saying. And in reality it wasn't all that long before it expired, and it was recovered. I hope that will be the case for all of the aforementioned big game , small game ,waterfowl and upland birds this fall!! We can only hope, but in reality? .........

Take a minute and think back over the years Can anyone say they haven't witnessed, heard of or been part of worse scenarios than the video????

Food for thought??

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If you do some searching around you will find out that the video was edited from the original by the antis.

The Canadian hunters out west seem to have a very different opinion on the video than most guys posting on this thread. That is the reality of Grizzly hunting and very seldom do they drop dead after 1 shot.

So yeah, I agree with you :-)

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Originally Posted by Obi-wanShinobi

If you do some searching around you will find out that the video was edited from the original by the antis.

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How does someone else edit your Youtube Video ?....what everyone saw was the originally video posted by the guy on his Facebook page...(since deleted)

Mike,

I guess we just disagree and if you think I'm a bigger threat to hunting than antis then so be it.
I do what I do and I don't care what anybody else does.

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Originally Posted by Obi-wanShinobi

I do what I do

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But would you take a video and post it for all to see ? ....

Still interested in how you figure the 'anti's altered a Youtube video...?

Firstly I agree the video is hard to watch for many, and that hunting is not everyone's cup of tea. But the Globe and Mail author who wrote an article on this let his emotions get in the way of the facts. Even some on this forum are buying into it.

The Globe and Mail author says that there is no evidence of the 1st shot impacting. Untrue. If you know what you are looking at, the bear is without any doubt hit on the 1st shot.

He also says that the bear is "peppered with gunfire that seems to only have enough power to torture it to death rather than anything resembling a humane death". Actual the first and second shots result in massive blood loss, which is how hunted animals usually die as humanely as possible, and the first shot is likely a pass through and on into the dirt. Hardly underpowered. Honestly, how many would go grizzly hunting without an adequate firearm? And while "peppering" sounds reckless, unskilled and careless, by my count the hunter connects on 4 of 6 shots, most on a moving target, and it seems to be at considerable range. The bear is stone dead in about 80 seconds. I say it is quite likely the bear would have died in the same amount of time if it had only been hit with the first 2 shots.

I am not in favour of trophy hunting. I'll never do it myself. And I'd certainly never be stupid enough to post it for the world on Youtube if I did. But I don't like the facts being misrepresented to the public by journalists. Then the new "reality" becomes - "hunters with poor marksmanship and an underpowered gun torture grizzly to death" -- well it wasn't quite like that now, was it?.

In the era of social media outrage, facts don't matter. By the time the facts are made clear, the initial impact is irreversible.

We are often our own worst enemies. If BC bans grizzly hunting, we can look back at this mess as one more nail in the coffin.

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Originally Posted by Larson

Firstly I agree the video is hard to watch for many, and that hunting is not everyone's cup of tea. But the Globe and Mail author who wrote an article on this let his emotions get in the way of the facts. Even some on this forum are buying into it.

The Globe and Mail author says that there is no evidence of the 1st shot impacting. Untrue. If you know what you are looking at, the bear is without any doubt hit on the 1st shot.

He also says that the bear is "peppered with gunfire that seems to only have enough power to torture it to death rather than anything resembling a humane death". Actual the first and second shots result in massive blood loss, which is how hunted animals usually die as humanely as possible, and the first shot is likely a pass through and on into the dirt. Hardly underpowered. Honestly, how many would go grizzly hunting without an adequate firearm? And while "peppering" sounds reckless, unskilled and careless, by my count the hunter connects on 4 of 6 shots, most on a moving target, and it seems to be at considerable range. The bear is stone dead in about 80 seconds. I say it is quite likely the bear would have died in the same amount of time if it had only been hit with the first 2 shots.

I am not in favour of trophy hunting. I'll never do it myself. And I'd certainly never be stupid enough to post it for the world on Youtube if I did. But I don't like the facts being misrepresented to the public by journalists. Then the new "reality" becomes - "hunters with poor marksmanship and an underpowered gun torture grizzly to death" -- well it wasn't quite like that now, was it?.

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Bang,bang on Larson, no pun intended.

Had the bear made its way into cover after the second shot, I fully believe the outcome of this hunt would be exactly the same. Only difference being,no snow, no barrel roll and no repercussions, and maybe less commentary. They would have walked in after a few minutes and in all likelihood found a DEAD bear. End of story. Unfortunately it didn't play out that way.

If we , as hunters, can't grasp this concept, and get over it and stick together!!! How in the h-ll are we ever going to put on a united front, for all of our sakes, in "all" of our hunting endeavours?????

All to often, it seems to me anyway,there are "some" on our forms that just can't wait to belittle,chastise,ridicule,offer "unsolicited advice" ,with negative overtones and sarcasm. I'm sure I have been guilty of this myself! We have to ask ourselves why?? Can we as a collective group avoid it? Does anyone really care?

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Originally Posted by Larson

Firstly I agree the video is hard to watch for many, and that hunting is not everyone's cup of tea. But the Globe and Mail author who wrote an article on this let his emotions get in the way of the facts. Even some on this forum are buying into it

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You're putting to much weight on the narrative swaying the public's opinion.....the video images are all that are needed for their actions to be judged.

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Originally Posted by buckchaser

In the era of social media outrage, facts don't matter. By the time the facts are made clear, the initial impact is irreversible.

We are often our own worst enemies. If BC bans grizzly hunting, we can look back at this mess as one more nail in the coffin.

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and done by our own, not the anti's....

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Originally Posted by bushman

If we , as hunters, can't grasp this concept, and get over it and stick together!!! How in the h-ll are we ever going to put on a united front, for all of our sakes, in "all" of our hunting endeavours?????

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Well I guess that's the rub; do we, as a Hunting Community, stand united and defend the actions in video or do we denounce them...what is in the best interest of our Sport ?

Personally, I think this is the more appropriate response:

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The video does not reflect responsible hunting, the past president of the Guide Outfitters Association of B.C. told the Globe and Mail.


"They were making bad comments, they’re sensationalizing the suffering of an animal. We don’t endorse that. That’s not what we’re about, and I’m disappointed," Mark Werner said in an interview with the newspaper.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

How does someone else edit your Youtube Video ?....what everyone saw was the originally video posted by the guy on his Facebook page...(since deleted)

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Who said so?
Unless you have more information than we do, someone could had get access to the video and posted it. Maybe not the hunter, maybe an anti, who knows.... I don't believe so but its not impossible and it would make a lot more sense.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well I guess that's the rub; do we, as a Hunting Community, stand united and defend the actions in video or do we condemn them...what is in the best interest of our Sport ?

Personally, I think this is the more appropriate response:

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Mike,
Couldn't agree more. Sensationalization of an animals death is simply not appropriate and I therefore agree with Mark Werner's statement. One would hope that those young hunters have learned from the media storm surrounding this. Good or bad, hunters need to be united. When it is bad then the individual needs to be instructed on what is the right path. Condemnation is not the mechanism needed, it simply leads down a dark road none of us want to take.

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Originally Posted by DGearyFTE

. Condemnation is not the mechanism needed, it simply leads down a dark road none of us want to take.

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lets' try 'denounce'....softer approach :)

Yea, I like denounce. Has a better connotation! ;0

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Originally Posted by MikePal

But would you take a video and post it for all to see ? ....

Still interested in how you figure the 'anti's altered a Youtube video...?

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Mike,

This was posted by a member on Hunting B.C. forum. He knows who the shooter is, where the bear was shot and which T.V. show it was shot for. That Grizzly wasn't even shot in B.C. The first shot was 340 yards and right in the vitals so the hunter was hardly a poor shot for those claiming he is.


From Hunting B.C.

The Dawg

The original video was close to 15 minutes long. This one has been spliced to show exactly what the antis want

and no doubt the original poster has seen the flack

he is/was a member here

Thanks for finding out some of the details...but does that change anything ?

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Originally Posted by MikePal

If you truly don't see what is wrong in that video, your more a threat to our privileges as Hunters than any anti...

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^^^^^^^^^^^ Uncalled for and factually incorrect.!!!!!

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Just a quick count, but approximately 20 people on the thread, prior to your post, 'understood' the ramifications....you seem to have missed it.

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Factually incorrect again!!! Putting words in people's mouths!!

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well I guess that's the rub; do we, as a Hunting Community, stand united and defend the actions in video or do we denounce them...what is in the best interest of our Sport ?

Personally, I think this is the more appropriate response:

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Agree 100 percent on Mark Werners statement.

Pretty much everyone was on the same page in condemning it being on www. But a lot also didn't have a problem with the video , only the public posting of it!!!!!

Several on this form actually understand the same or worse can and likely has happened to most of us.

So why Mike do you have to cut and paste only small portions of people's responses??? Are you purposely trying to make them look bad, unintelligent, further your own views???? I just don't get it!!

Are you trying To put words in my mouth now or misunderstanding me.? Had you added the paragraph below the one you so poetically "cut and pasted ", it would have made more sense.

I am not defending the actions in the video . I didn't say we should stand united and publicly defend it. I was trying to make the point we be somewhat United and "truthful " here on the forum, in acknowledging this exact same scenario we are discussing, plays out ????? times a year.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Thanks for finding out some of the details...but does that change anything ?

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You tell us mike??????? Re- read some of your previous posts!

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Originally Posted by bushman

Pretty much everyone was on the same page in condemning it being on www. But a lot also didn't have a problem with the video , only the public posting of it!!!!!

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I don't think you've grasped my position on this topic throughout the thread Bushman...it's always been that it's the posting of the Video itself that is doing the damage to Hunting, and since you seem to understand that, and agree, then why the rant ?

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Originally Posted by MikePal

If you truly don't see what is wrong in that video, your more a threat to our privileges as Hunters than any anti...

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Originally Posted by bushman

^^^^^^^^^^^ Uncalled for and factually incorrect.!!!!!

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How is it "factually incorrect' Bushman? ...you say yourself that every one agrees the problem is the video. Some guys just don't seem to grasp that...If you don't see the ramifications of it being in the public eye and continue to post your Trophy hunts video's, showing death scenes like that...you're doing damage to our image as Hunters.

Some guy on another forum posted a comment that gave it prospective..he said..

."Dont think an armchair analysis of thebshooting or bullet performance is the issue. The video is simply disturbing and did not need th be posted other than for a hero shot. We stopped strapping our kills to the hood 40 years ago. This is simply a 2015 version of the same thing."

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Originally Posted by bushman

.. I was trying to make the point we be somewhat United and "truthful " here on the forum, in acknowledging this exact same scenario we are discussing, plays out ????? times a year.

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I have no idea what your driving at Bushman...I read through a couple of other hunting forums on this discussion last night and they are 'mirrors' of this one, there is no united front anywhere. Some very heated discussions on other boards. Guys arguing about how it's legal and happens all the time....but missing the big bigger picture of how much damage that video is doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Thanks for finding out some of the details...but does that change anything ?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bushman

You tell us mike??????? Re- read some of your previous posts!

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At this point Bushman, the origins of the video and the fact that it's an altered video (edited from a 15 minute on to a 2 minute one) is irrelevant. It exists, it's gone viral and it's being linked to by major news networks. Arguing about it's source and trying to discredit it is pointless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

At this point Bushman, the origins of the video and the fact that it's an altered video (edited from a 15 minute on to a 2 minute one) is irrelevant. It exists, it's gone viral and it's being linked to by major news networks. Arguing about it's source and trying to discredit it is pointless.

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First of all it wasn't a rant mike.
And you are still putting words in my mouth! I didn't say the problem was the video ,as you implied in your response!!! I said the POSTING of the video on social media was WRONG and that sentiment is very close to unanimous.

If you you read the first 20 posts, they don't necessarily say what you claim they say when you attacked stevietangles. On top of that a few posts later , he said said posting it was wrong,BUT there was nothing wrong with the video!! Which by the way numerous people agree with.

Then you attack two people, fellow sportsman and hunters, accusing them of being worse than anti's. Not right and not fair just because they didn't agree with your EXACT thoughts!! And when you attacked them, you said, after "cutting and pasting "AGAIN. If you can't see what's wrong with the video?You didn't say ,posting that video.

I noticed you didn't respond to my question either about "cutting and pasting " specific quotes " so they can be taken out of context. Nor did you ever acknowledge or mention what many of us reiterated, that worse happens many, many times each year.

And you took my quote about sticking together as sportsman out of context and tried to use it against me and again changed the context. And used condemnation ! At least someone spoke up and thought that was a little harsh. The same person even mentioned, good or bad we should try to stick together.

And I don't believe anyone disputes the fact that the video being released was very bad. Nor do I believe arguing over it or disputing where or how it came about really matters. If it was altered,which may be the case is irrelevant,you're right. The point I was trying to make is that you stated a couple of times it couldn't be done!!

This isn't a vendetta either by the way. Just thought there were some biases, ambiguity and hypocrisy going on. If I'm the only one that feels this way, I will publicly apologize to you here on the form and quit posting.

You keep repeating yourself Bushman and I have answered it twice already....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bushman

And I don't believe anyone disputes the fact that the video being released was very bad. Nor do I believe arguing over it or disputing where or how it came about really matters. If it was altered,which may be the case is irrelevant,you're right.

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Since, again, you in support of my opinion throughout this thread why do you keep debating it ?

note; that's rhetorical, you don't need to repeat yourself, again :)

Hey girls, stop pulling your hair, at your age it can't be that many left:moose::moose::moose:
Both of you had some really good point, as usual, and as any good discussion opinion can slightly change or let say more define, and that's the all point of an "argument". From the beginning of the thread to now my opinion change a bit, at first I was wondering about a possible under power caliber but than it appeared it was shot at 340 yards.... Wonder how many hunter would take such a shot on one of the toughest game out there, glad they were able to finish him off though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

You keep repeating yourself Bushman and I have answered it twice already....



Since, again, you in support of my opinion throughout this thread why do you keep debating it ?

note; that's rhetorical, you don't need to repeat yourself, again :)

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I see. If I have been repeating myself, it should have very easy to understand and reply to my key points. Apparently not!! More of the same ducking, dodging, redirecting.

Thats fine , I get it,loud and clear. Don't worry about it. You just keep on..............

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seabast

.. Wonder how many hunter would take such a shot on one of the toughest game out there, glad they were able to finish him off though.

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I wonder if because it was being filmed for a TV show, that there may have been pressure to make the shot, albeit a long shot on a tough target.

Sounds like more often filmed hunts are under pressure to make the shots to make the program and some are willing to go to extremes (sometimes illegal) to do that, all for profit at the end of the day. As we have heard before, a lot of the questionable (and sometimes illegal) stuff gets edited out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by poltrojan

I just hope MNR is sensible enough to overlook the realities of Grizzly hunt. Although the distance was greater that I would feel comfortable shooting, especially between valley in mountains.

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poltrojan, I like where your coming from on this one, if the first hit was suppose to be a kill shot the elevations and the distance from the bear, apparently out ranged the firearms killing potential. If the first shot was that far over the bear, as it appears to have been. Then the ill placed second shot may not have been that well placed. It's hard to know from the video the range involved, but whatever the caliber of the firearm being used. It really looks like its killing potential was being strained. But again, whoever was acting as guide must have given the okay to take the shot.

You stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
-Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Sparking new outrage towards hunters....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fIpVnSR-qE

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Hi MikePal, I've reviewed this video a few more times showing it to spouse and my two daughters, all were thoroughly disgusted by the brutality of the kill. I went looking to see who might have been responsible for the camera work, the only thing indicated was "It is unclear where or when the video was recorded." This movie strikes me as a real a setup, and those involved may very well sold their souls to the Animal Defense League who released it. There was no reason for that first bullet not to have found that bear's boiler room, save that his hind quarters were deliberately targeted in order to produce the dramatic effect which resulted. As well, It would appear that the follow up shoot which found the same part of the body, was equally deliberate. There is no doubt in my mind that the trigger man was a marksman, and new exactly what he was doing. I suspect they paid all involved well.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
-Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Hi MikePal, I've reviewed this video a few more times showing it to spouse and my two daughters, all were thoroughly disgusted by the brutality of the kill. I went looking to see who might have been responsible for the camera work, the only thing indicated was "It is unclear where or when the video was recorded." This movie strikes me as a real a setup, and those involved may very well sold their souls to the Animal Defense League who released it. There was no reason for that first bullet not to have found that bear's boiler room, save that his hind quarters were deliberately targeted in order to produce the dramatic effect which resulted. As well, It would appear that the follow up shoot which found the same part of the body, was equally deliberate. There is no doubt in my mind that the trigger man was a marksman, and new exactly what he was doing. I suspect they paid all involved well.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
-Gun Nut

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Actually you do have a point. I remember this was done before with the clubbing of the seal by a Canadian but producers were from outside of country with agenda for hunter/firearm disarmament; yes i know its sounds like a conspiracy however if you think about it, the name of the hunter should've leaked by now or give it a couple more weeks; just like Cecil incident.

however there is something off about that video, nothing concrete surfaced yet. who's actually behind the whole incident. especially this guy (picture) should have the story if he is part of the hunt. he seems to be either a guide or an observer and not too pleased about it.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5ohhok7u.jpg

The history of the video is well known in some circles and the identity of the guides, the hunter and the show that they were taping the hunt for are being kept under wraps. The only editing that was done was to shorten the video for a 15 minutes down to less than 2.

There is no conspiracy, just lots of shame.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The history of the video is well known in some circles and the identity of the guides, the hunter and the show that they were taping the hunt for are being kept under wraps. The only editing that was done was to shorten the video for a 15 minutes down to less than 2.

There is no conspiracy, just lots of shame.

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^^^^ IMO, if this was true all the names would have been out there a while ago. All we have is someone in a BC forum saying that a friends of a friend of a friend knows the guys and the story and everyone keep telling the same BS, so we really don't know anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seabast

^^^^ IMO, if this was true all the names would have been out there a while ago. All we have is someone in a BC forum saying that a friends of a friend of a friend knows the guys and the story and everyone keep telling the same BS, so we really don't know anything.

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Before we can lend any credence to the "conspiracy" theory that it's an animal rights plot to discredit hunting and was done on purpose,it will need to be proven beyond ANY doubt with sworn witness statements. There can not be one shred of evidence to the contrary. It must be "iron-clad,smoking-gun" irrefutable with no means of escape for perpetrators. Otherwise,conspiracy theorists will just be blowing a lot of hot air.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Before we can lend any credence to the "conspiracy" theory that it's an animal rights plot to discredit hunting and was done on purpose,it will need to be proven beyond ANY doubt with sworn witness statements. There can not be one shred of evidence to the contrary. It must be "iron-clad,smoking-gun" irrefutable with no means of escape for perpetrators. Otherwise,conspiracy theorists will just be blowing a lot of hot air.

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Alright, so what's the plan?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seabast

Alright, so what's the plan?

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Well..when/if you take a video of your Hunt this season and you would be uncomfortable showing to your mother, do us all a favour and don't post it on the internet....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well..when/if you take a video of your Hunt this season and you would be uncomfortable showing to your mother, do us all a favour and don't post it on the internet....

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MikePal, there is a Global News site that leads with "WARNING(graphic content)...." that has a follow up video below the one of the grizzly hunt, where these staunch defenders of wildlife admit that the footage of this particular grizzly bear hunt was taken a couple of years ago in Alaska. I think that says it all.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
-Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seabast

Alright, so what's the plan?

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Sit back and be patient. These things have a way of getting exposed,eventually.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Sit back and be patient. These things have a way of getting exposed,eventually.

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I understand that's all we have, "Patience", and we are pretty hopeless, but during this time the Antis act and we all know what's happen to the one that just seat and wait.....

Question: let's say this video was never posted. In this case everyone, who understands what is wrong with this video, is ok? All is cool now?

Oh well, some people here are making an awful lot of this, sometimes the animals we hunt don't drop on the spot feet in the air, it happens, ever watched a Grizzley kill a Moose? It ain't pretty.

Shouldnt have been posted, but that actually happens, if it hasn't happened to you then maybe you don't get out as much as some others. I don't see a dramatic difference in that than watching a big whitetail run for 100 yards on video with blood shooting out of its arse, and I've seen that on Wild TV a few times.....

Yelling and and screaming doesn't do it for me, but have you seen how excited Stan Potts gets?, one of the most famous and respected deer hunters, what's the difference.

Hunters kill animals sometimes it ain't pretty, but don't hide behind some sense that we should pretend that it's something it isn't, we don't harvest, we kill and we eat, there's nothing to be ashamed in that, it's an honourable thing, don't be scared or ashamed, it's part of being a normal human being IMHO

Frosty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frosty

we don't harvest, we kill and we eat, there's nothing to be ashamed in that
Frosty

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Agreed. Harvesting is what you do on the farm with a harvester and it has nothing to do with hunting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frosty

Oh well, some people here are making an awful lot of this, sometimes the animals we hunt don't drop on the spot feet in the air, it happens, ever watched a Grizzley kill a Moose? It ain't pretty.

Shouldnt have been posted, but that actually happens, if it hasn't happened to you then maybe you don't get out as much as some others. I don't see a dramatic difference in that than watching a big whitetail run for 100 yards on video with blood shooting out of its arse, and I've seen that on Wild TV a few times.....

Yelling and and screaming doesn't do it for me, but have you seen how excited Stan Potts gets?, one of the most famous and respected deer hunters, what's the difference.

Hunters kill animals sometimes it ain't pretty, but don't hide behind some sense that we should pretend that it's something it isn't, we don't harvest, we kill and we eat, there's nothing to be ashamed in that, it's an honourable thing, don't be scared or ashamed, it's part of being a normal human being IMHO

Frosty

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Well said frosty!!!! You get it ,a lot of people on here get it and agree with what you are saying!!!!

Be careful. Don't be surprised if you are taken to task over your comments though. If you don't follow, to the letter , some ideology on here and agree EXACTLY with those narrow minded, short sighted , self centred,egotistical opinions, you are WRONG!!!! You're not supposed to think for yourself, you're just supposed to agree!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frosty

Shouldnt have been posted,

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...."EXACTLY" !!. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frosty

Oh well, some people here are making an awful lot of this, sometimes the animals we hunt don't drop on the spot feet in the air, it happens, ever watched a Grizzley kill a Moose? It ain't pretty.

Shouldnt have been posted, but that actually happens, if it hasn't happened to you then maybe you don't get out as much as some others. I don't see a dramatic difference in that than watching a big whitetail run for 100 yards on video with blood shooting out of its arse, and I've seen that on Wild TV a few times.....

Yelling and and screaming doesn't do it for me, but have you seen how excited Stan Potts gets?, one of the most famous and respected deer hunters, what's the difference.

Hunters kill animals sometimes it ain't pretty, but don't hide behind some sense that we should pretend that it's something it isn't, we don't harvest, we kill and we eat, there's nothing to be ashamed in that, it's an honourable thing, don't be scared or ashamed, it's part of being a normal human being IMHO

Frosty

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Hi Frosty,

It was the Wildlife Defense League(WDL) that made sure this video got a good airing, they are pushing the B.C. government to place a moratorium on trophy hunting grizzly bears. This video has had over a million hits, and it's a glaring example of what ethical hunting is not. You let something like this take over public opinion, and the next thing you know all hunting will cease and desist. The government will simply give into public pressure from the non-hunting community, and believe me there is a lot more of them, than there are of us. Having said that if you study this movie long and hard. Things start to look pretty suspicious , it looks like something that was conceived in the minds of the WDL. Trophy hunters don't want to spoil the head and cape of their trophy so they target the animal where these thing won't get damage by the bullets. In this video the individual doing the shooting sets out to follow through on these notions of how trophy animals must have to be taken. He doesn't direct his shots at the head or cape area, instead he targets the bear's hind quarters. Even his follow up shots were directed at this area of the bear, when he wasn't on target his bullets were landing behind the fleeing bear. Hunter, always, have a good laugh about the way an animal dies. Listen how this bunch of characters were having a good laugh as this bear cartwheeling down the slope in its death roll. This video is so much about what hunting is not that it should turn the stomach of any respectable hunter. In my mind, at least, it pretty clear, that the WDL had a hand in its production somewhere. Some defenders of wildlife they are, their ideas of how things go do on a trophy hunt, put this beautiful creature through a living torment, far from being cleanly killed. This bear was disgustingly butchered alive. If you want to dismiss it as being something other wise its your prerogative.

You do stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Gun Nut..... your comments above are a little hard to swallow........ it looked like a pretty good hunt to me..... I don't have an issue with the hunt or film....just the posting of it on youtube.... silly guy ruined a great hunt by doing so...

Sorry Gunnut I don't agree with your opinion, I'm not trying to pass anything off as anything else, I just don't think that hunters should feel ashamed because sometimes the animals we hunt don't just drop on the spot, those animals lived a free healthy life, we pitted our wits against them, and on occasion we were successfull.

The meat we eat comes from a free wild creature that one day in one moment made a mistake in the game of wits we call hunting. That for me anyway is a very honourable situation for the animal and the hunter. BUT sometimes it's not pretty FACT,but that does not in any way detract from the process.

Have you ever had to chase down a cripple in a duck boat? Is that any different? Not for the duck lol, if it happens, is that because it was hunted by lowsey duck hunters, should they never duck again?? Of course not, the difference is that Joe public sees that animal as Mr. Big cuddly teddy bear, Oh boy how misinformed they are, that is a ruthless killing machine at the pinnacle of natures triangle, an animal that would eat you in a second, rip your guts out and eat you alive! One day he met his match, game over, was it perfect, no, was it unethical? Not in my opinion, it just didn't go as well as it could have. Spend enough time in the bush and you will know that something can go wrong with everything and if you considered that to the fullest extent you'd never ever pull the trigger, but we do because we play the probabilities.....

I'll say it again, if you've never made a bad shot, you haven't hunted all that much....

OAO

Frosty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fratri

Gun Nut..... your comments above are a little hard to swallow........ it looked like a pretty good hunt to me..... I don't have an issue with the hunt or film....just the posting of it on youtube.... silly guy ruined a great hunt by doing so...

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With you 100 percent on your observations, comments, and down to earth appraisal of REALITY!!!! BUT, some people still want to ,split hairs, take the high road and keep their head in the clouds. All to put on a face of deception and to save face!!!

Move to to the front of the class , fratri, you passed the test of , reason, reality and common sense!!! As most on this thread have!! But.......... You can't argue with god like individuals that can't comprehend, someone else's opinion that, varies from theirs.

This video was a godsend for the Wildlife Defense League to beat us over the head with in their campaign to end all trophy hunting and the Wolf cull in BC. I think it's a "reach" to claim it was faked/photoshopped or whatever you chose to call it without solid proof. After just some cursory internet searches,this thing looks like it has real "legs." There's no way we can stop the "dummy crew" among us from posting this stupidity because stupid is as stupid does. If enough people keep this nonsense up,we'll be handing these organizations the clubs to beat us to death with. We all need to think long and hard about what pictures we take and what we do with them. If this isn't a wake-up call then,we're screwed.:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fratri

Gun Nut..... your comments above are a little hard to swallow........ it looked like a pretty good hunt to me..... I don't have an issue with the hunt or film....just the posting of it on youtube.... silly guy ruined a great hunt by doing so...

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If that looks like a pretty good hunt, why are they offering a $3500 reward for information pursuant to it. I have to suspect that the payoff had to be quite something, or somebody among them would be singing like a canary by now. On the first shot the shooter had the whole broadside of the bear to shoot at, given that the sights might have been a bit off, that's quite a deviation from the boiler room of that bear to his rump. Odd that the second shot found the same mark. Then there was the one just behind him as he was moving down the slope. Then, as he was laying sprawled broadside on the slope, stock still, where was the finishing shot? If you don't think these guys were following a script, we as a hunting community are in deep trouble.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

I've been watching this thread all along but only just now watched the video. Based on everything that's been said here, I expected to see some kind of a horror show. What I saw looks pretty typical of how long it takes for a 1000+ pound animal to expire. People seem to base a lot of what they expect to see around what happens on edited for TV hunting shows. "Drop on the spot" shots are a pretty rare thing in the real world.

Shot in the rump? Judging by the impact behind the bear on the first shot, it looks to me like a bullet through the boiler room, probably the first two. While I haven't shot anything in the hind quarters to compare, I doubt you would push a bullet through that much hide, bone and muscle to impact behind the bear. Also, watch the last few seconds. The blood on the snow where the bear is coming to rest shows that it is obviously spraying blood from the mouth and nose (lung shot). Large animals tend to take an awful long time to realize they're dead unless you break them down.

I fully agree with Frosty and the others here, except I'm not even sure that it was a bad shot. Just a bear that didn't realize he was dead on his feet and then tumbled down the mountain. It was an incredibly stupid thing to post this kind of video for the general public to see, but it should be obvious to anyone who's shot big game that it's rarely a pretty thing.

As an aside... I'm sure the antis can guarantee that every bear, moose or deer will die a quick and painless death at the hands of mother nature, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

I've been watching this thread all along but only just now watched the video. Based on everything that's been said here, I expected to see some kind of a horror show. What I saw looks pretty typical of how long it takes for a 1000+ pound animal to expire. People seem to base a lot of what they expect to see around what happens on edited for TV hunting shows. "Drop on the spot" shots are a pretty rare thing in the real world.

Shot in the rump? Judging by the impact behind the bear on the first shot, it looks to me like a bullet through the boiler room, probably the first two. While I haven't shot anything in the hind quarters to compare, I doubt you would push a bullet through that much hide, bone and muscle to impact behind the bear. Also, watch the last few seconds. The blood on the snow where the bear is coming to rest shows that it is obviously spraying blood from the mouth and nose (lung shot). Large animals tend to take an awful long time to realize they're dead unless you break them down.

I fully agree with Frosty and the others here, except I'm not even sure that it was a bad shot. Just a bear that didn't realize he was dead on his feet and then tumbled down the mountain. It was an incredibly stupid thing to post this kind of video for the general public to see, but it should be obvious to anyone who's shot big game that it's rarely a pretty thing.

As an aside... I'm sure the antis can guarantee that every bear, moose or deer will die a quick and painless death at the hands of mother nature, right?

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Well GW11, Here how the anti's feel about:

The Wildlife Defence League (WDL), based in Vancouver, Canada, posted the footage on its Facebook page.

“It’s absolutely horrific,” Tommy Knowles, the group’s campaign director, told the Globe and Mail.


“It’s completely unethical, completely inhumane. It’s a bear being shot over and over again, sliding down a mountain, bleeding out.”


The WDL has also renewed calls to end the grizzly hunt as British Columbia prepares to open its fall season on Oct. 1.




The group told the Huffington Post: "We want people to see that this is how grizzly hunting exists across the board, whether it’s in British Columbia or not.


"Trophy hunting of predators is unsustainable and unethical and we’re hoping this footage puts forces the government to take note and move towards banning the hunt."


The video does not reflect responsible hunting, Mark Werner, the past president of the Guide Outfitters Association of British Columbia said.


He added: "They were making bad comments, they’re sensationalizing the suffering of an animal.


“We don’t endorse that. That’s not what we’re about, and I’m disappointed."


[email protected]


The line that really bothers me is:

"We want people to see that this is how grizzly hunting exists across the board, whether it’s in British Columbia or not."

And they would know this?

The other line that stands out, and its not from an anti is:

The video does not reflect responsible hunting, Mark Werner, the past president of the Guide Outfitters Association of British Columbia said.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
-Gun Nut

Gun Nut - I couldn't care less about what the antis think. There is NO acceptable form of hunting to a true anti-hunter, so to worry about whether or not that video offends the antis is a moot point. They are offended by hunting. Period.

The problem with posting this type of video is that it gives the antis ammo to sway the non-hunting "on the fence" public to their side. Which is exactly what it sounds like they're doing. That's the unfortunate part. While I have no idea who Mark Werner is, his comments sound to me like he just didn't want to get dragged into a heated debate. After all, he is the "past president" of the Guide Outfitter's Association of British Columbia, not the current president. Why would he want to take the reins on this one?

The fact is, we've all made shots in the field that we weren't entirely proud of, and even good shots that may have ended with something you wouldn't want a non-hunter to see. If you dropped a deer in front of you, would you turn on the camera and record it's final few seconds or minutes before it dies and then post it on the internet? What happens with an animal after the shot (except for a brain/CNS shot) is enough to turn some new hunters off of it entirely. I've seen it personally.

The time between the impact of the shot and when you recover the animal should be between the hunter and the animal. You botch the shot, you deal with the consequences. It's not something to be posted online for the uniformed masses to watch and judge.

GW11, I agree. My point is that this video was scripted and produced by the anti's. They fundamentally admitted to it when they made the statement: "We want people to see that this is how grizzly hunting exists across the board whether in B.C. or not." They know this, because they have witnessed numerous grizzly trophy hunts. Right? They know this because they have a stereotypical view of how grizzle trophy hunting has to be done, and they had this production done as bait to prove it. Any excuse the hunting community makes, as to why this hunt went so badly i.e it was poor shooting, or grizzlies are tough and stubborn to died, adds credence to what they believe and have portrayed in this video. This hunt went so badly because they scripted so. The shooter or shooters as they intimate, deliberately and with malaise of intent put that bear through a living hell. Because these people believe this is the only way trophy hunter can assure those parts of an animal they hang on the wall are not messed up by bullet wounds. I see no evidence in the video that any of the shots ever went through that bears boiler room, for them such a shoot might have risked damage to the cape. Again they appear to have little knowledge of what a good taxidermist is capable of. Nor would any hunter who botched such a hunt put such a video online. There is nothing in the destruction of this animal to be proud of. As for Mark Werner he was quick enough to see this video, for what it was, and was smart he enough not to lend any legitimacy to it.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

The time between the impact of the shot and when you recover the animal should be between the hunter and the animal. You botch the shot, you deal with the consequences. It's not something to be posted online for the uniformed masses to watch and judge.

---

amen...excellent post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

GW11, I agree. My point is that this video was scripted and produced by the anti's.

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just to clarify; according to few guys on another B.C. hunter forum, the original video was taken in Alaska, was 15 minutes long and being filmed for a TV show. It was posted in 2013 by the original hunter and was witnessed/seen by a few posters on that forum.

The video we're seeing now was edited down to less to 2 minutes, so you can say it was 'scripted' to show the worst parts, but it's still real.

and at this point..trying to discrete the video is pointless....the people who are appalled by it, aren't asking those questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by poltrojan

Actually you do have a point. I remember this was done before with the clubbing of the seal by a Canadian but producers were from outside of country with agenda for hunter/firearm disarmament; yes i know its sounds like a conspiracy however if you think about it, the name of the hunter should've leaked by now or give it a couple more weeks; just like Cecil incident.

however there is something off about that video, nothing concrete surfaced yet. who's actually behind the whole incident. especially this guy (picture) should have the story if he is part of the hunt. he seems to be either a guide or an observer and not too pleased about it.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5ohhok7u.jpg

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Hi poltrojar

Look it up on the internet and see what you think. I was watching, " Alaska - The Last Frontier," on the Discovery Channel, this evening, the guy in this photo bears a remarkable resemblance to one of the cast of that program, Eivin Kilcher.

You don't stop hunting because you get old. You get old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

Gun Nut - I couldn't care less about what the antis think. There is NO acceptable form of hunting to a true anti-hunter, so to worry about whether or not that video offends the antis is a moot point. They are offended by hunting. Period.

The problem with posting this type of video is that it gives the antis ammo to sway the non-hunting "on the fence" public to their side. Which is exactly what it sounds like they're doing. That's the unfortunate part. While I have no idea who Mark Werner is, his comments sound to me like he just didn't want to get dragged into a heated debate. After all, he is the "past president" of the Guide Outfitter's Association of British Columbia, not the current president. Why would he want to take the reins on this one?

The fact is, we've all made shots in the field that we weren't entirely proud of, and even good shots that may have ended with something you wouldn't want a non-hunter to see. If you dropped a deer in front of you, would you turn on the camera and record it's final few seconds or minutes before it dies and then post it on the internet? What happens with an animal after the shot (except for a brain/CNS shot) is enough to turn some new hunters off of it entirely. I've seen it personally.

The time between the impact of the shot and when you recover the animal should be between the hunter and the animal. You botch the shot, you deal with the consequences. It's not something to be posted online for the uniformed masses to watch and judge.

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Excellent post GW11, right from the beginning to end. Covers all aspects of what can go wrong on a hunt. The repercussions of idiocy, and an overall objective analysis. Not viewed through rose coloured glasses or sugar coated. Well done!!

what matters is that uninformed masses are now screaming for blood for something that is scripted, misinforming, misleading and worse of all was actually used a live tv footage for a hunting show. so whoever gained the media infamy used the right timing because of the Cecil incident.

it'll die down, eventually. MNR isn't that stupid.

some interesting comments by Mr. Ellis, the executive director of the Guide Outfitters Association of B.C.

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In an hour-long conversation, Mr. Ellis and I debated this subject. I told him I did not think the issue was whether the trophy hunting of grizzlies should be stopped because their numbers are dwindling, rather because it is simply wrong, period. How did his organization defend, on moral grounds, the practice of killing grizzlies for sport?


“We don’t,” Mr. Ellis told me. “We don’t try to morally defend someone’s personal decision. There are people who like it and some who don’t. We have a free country and we have choices. But I think people have this notion that if we stop the trophy hunting of grizzlies, there will be more grizzlies.”

And there might be. But again, I don’t think that is the issue. For most people, the issue revolves around the ethics of what is being done. We used to hang people in the town square; we don’t any more. We have ceased lots of barbaric activities as we have evolved into a civilized society. And when it comes to killing bears for sport, our revulsion was forged long before a video surfaced recently showing a grizzly being shot and tortured by a pair of sport hunters allegedly in B.C.

For what it’s worth, Mr. Ellis said he, too, was offended by what he saw on that video. He said the conduct of the hunters involved was reprehensible and he agreed the negative publicity the video generated likely hurt the reputation of guide outfitters everywhere.

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All that said, Mr. Ellis knows political pressure is growing to end the trophy hunt in B.C. He can feel it. He can sense it. And he admits that Premier Christy Clark is likely asking herself whether the 300 grizzlies killed each year for trophy hunting is worth the hit she is taking politically for it.


Mr. Ellis even went as far as to say that people buying guide outfitting operations today should not include grizzly kills in their future profit-and-loss estimates because they likely will not be able to count on that income in the near future. “And that will be a sad day,” he said.

That is quite a shocking admission. Even the head of the province’s guide outfitting association can see the writing on the wall. Even he is preparing his members for the moment when they will no longer be able to rely on the income of wealthy foreigners and others who want to come into the province to kill one of our most iconic creatures just for the fun of it.

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read more: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle26552506/

Sounds like he is just going with the flow and giving up. Knowingly or unknowingly, his chosen words are helping to band the hunt.

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Originally Posted by fratri

Sounds like he is just going with the flow and giving up. Knowingly or unknowingly, his chosen words are helping to band the hunt.

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Not defending him, but sometime you have to give a finger to save an arm.

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Originally Posted by fratri

Sounds like he is just going with the flow and giving up. Knowingly or unknowingly, his chosen words are helping to band the hunt.

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I agree 100% if he actually said those things in an interview with the media then he did a big **** up. Either you agree with the principle of the right to hunt or you don't, if you can't say anything good about a particular incident then don't say anything at all, conceding in any way that one day our sport could be ended is the flakiest, weakest and most dishonourable thing he could do in his position, he seems politically driven too, if he said those words quoted.

Some people will never understand our HONEST lifestyle as hunters, but conceding all of the time that this is unethical or that is inappropriate absolutely isn't the way to defend ourselves, hunting is the MOST HONEST way to feed your family, do I have to depend upon it to survive, NO, but I'd much rather eat what I do than some pumped up steroid filled beef that lived a crappy life in order to feed me! Oh yes but it's in a nice cellophane wrapper displayed under filtered lighting to make it look red!!!! Oh my god, give me a break, if you have to go through that rigmarole in order to come to terms with the fact that you like to eat meat that comes from a living creature then you really don't have a good platform for argument and ultimately how HONEST is that!

So feet in the air, or 200 yard tracking job, I'll take that any day over what's inside the cellophane and knowing how it lived and died.

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Originally Posted by seabast

Not defending him, but sometime you have to give a finger to save an arm.

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seabast, your comment reminded me of a park ranger's advise to some tourist about feeding bears. You can get your self in a mess of trouble he said, because the bear has a bigger appetite than you've got handouts, and when the last food scrape leave your fingers, the next thing that up for grabs is your hand.

You don't stop hunting because you get old. You get old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut