Close up Deer and Shot Placement

Ok finally got out to the small plot of land I can hunt fordeer at I had to cut downed trees to clear a lane to what looked like a trail,after putting some feed down and mounting a camera I measured distance to where I would put my blind and it was 37yrds. So I decided to go with the rifled shotgun with 3in Winchester Partition Gold and sighted it in at 30yrd (using a range finder) see pictures of results, but here’s my question where to place shot on deer I’ve read head, neck and boilerroom and now I’m in information overload. Reason why I’m asking I would like a clean kill shot and I’m confident in my own shooting abilities I just thought I would throw it out there see what everyone else thinks.
Attachment 30826

Btw the picture came out sideways and shows my last three shots at 30 yrds

You want to shoot him/her right behind the shoulder....Boiler room would be correct....It will create the least amount of spoiled meat and the surest way for it to die....
Best of luck this season

try to hit them right behind the front leg as close to the leg as you can get ,shoot for one third of the way up from the belly ,with a slug gun you can even move a little more forward and hot them right in the shoulder blade and this will put them down pretty fast still hitting the heart and lungs well breaking the bones in the shoulder ,,,,head and neck shots are for cowboys that like to show off ,,,Dutch

I agree with the others here... boiler room is your best bet. Gives you a little more room for error if a bit of "buck fever" kicks in. The deer may run for a little ways but they will usually go down within 100 yards or so and that slug should leave you a nice blood trail to follow.

At the risk of starting a debate, there are folks out there who are quite capable of head/neck shots with repeated success, but if you're new to deer hunting it would be best to put a few deer under your belt before you decide if that's a shot you would take.

Right behind the front leg half way up will put a nasty hole through both lungs if broadside

Not new to deer hunting just this year switching over to slug barrel and 4power scope in past I used 00buck shot but with eyesight (short sighted) I'm finding it easier to use a scope.

Boiler room.......gives you more of an advantage of making a clean kill if your shot is off the mark a bit as there is more vitals in this area you will hit.....

Boiler room.

Shoot the jaw off a deer and lose it, good luck sleeping after that.

Heart/lung-- nothing else is more effective.
Neck shots can go too high-- meat and bone-- not lethal-- long run and never retrieve it.
Neck shots can go too low-- tracheal/skin hit-- they can breath through a trach hit same as a laryngeal cancer patient with a trach tube
Head shot-- they have small brains- too easy to shoot off the face or ears and still not kill-- so they run away.

Always go for the heart lung shot

What Dutch said....can't go wrong with a boiler room shot and if you are real luck it will drop on the spot! Good luck this coming season!

I agree with everyone here, heads can move fast, small brain, neck shot has a small target, take out the lungs and the deer is done.

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Originally Posted by johny

Neck shots can go too high-- meat and bone-- not lethal-- long run and never retrieve it.
Neck shots can go too low-- tracheal/skin hit-- they can breath through a trach hit same as a laryngeal cancer patient with a trach tube

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Sorry Johny..have to disagree with a blanket statement like that....my last 5 deer have all been like this....neck shots at around 25 yds with a 50 cal ML. I hit sub 1" groupings on bull at 50 yds, these shots are easy and quick, the deer drops in their tracks, no waiting for the animal to bleed out, their dead before the hit the ground. Very efficient way to kill a deer.


http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ailcam0005.jpg

You can see my tree stand in the background (centre)...the autopsy photos on this shot were amazing (available for PM if you like to see), The 50 cal left a huge whole thru the neck, tore out the windpipe, severed the artery and removed two vertebrate in the spine...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...DSCF0023_1.jpg


Since the OP is using slugs (similar to .50 cal ML).....at 37 yds...the neck shoot is a completely viable option.

I however do concur with what others have said for anything beyond 50yds, I will usually aim for the Heart (vitals) and use heavy/soft lead to it brings them down fast.

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Originally Posted by johny

Heart/lung-- nothing else is more effective.
Neck shots can go too high-- meat and bone-- not lethal-- long run and never retrieve it.
Neck shots can go too low-- tracheal/skin hit-- they can breath through a trach hit same as a laryngeal cancer patient with a trach tube
Head shot-- they have small brains- too easy to shoot off the face or ears and still not kill-- so they run away.

Always go for the heart lung shot

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Agree with you 100% Johnny - but we have this discussion every year complete with the same anecdotal evidence complete with pictures and it always turns out the same....

Too bad we don't have some pictures of the times it doesn't work out, deer left to die with broken jaws, etc.

Silly thing is the *only* hunting board I've been on where a neck/head shot is *ever* discussed as a first choice shot.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

but we have this discussion every year complete with the same anecdotal evidence complete with pictures and it always turns out the same....

Too bad we don't have some pictures of the times it doesn't work out, deer left to die with broken jaws, etc.

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Yup a perennial discussion and your attitude hasn't changed Werner, yet I still have success year after year :)

I still use the neck shot as my preferred shot choice, it has never failed me; one shot, instant death, deer in it's tracks.

Sorry no pictures of a failed shoot, hasn't happened yet and shouldn't, it' a less than a 50 yrd shot....

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

anecdotal evidence complete with pictures

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Isn't that an oxymoron ? Haha

In general I would agree that a boiler room shot is the shot to take and that a neck shot is not recommended for the vast majority of cases. That being said I would make case by case exceptions for instances like Mike describes. If one is as accurate as Mike says and knows the exact range and is shooting from a solid rest (assuming this looking at the blind pic) than I would say have at it.

Rarely does one blanket rule cover everything. They cover most things but there are always exceptions.

Your first picture provides some other info. It looks like the corn is placed so that a deer is most likely to be facing away from your blind, the shot looks like it went in the back of the neck and out the front. When I think about it that way I think it's a much better shot than one taken at the side of the neck. When looking at the back of the neck with the deer facing away from you it's almost all vital. There's probably only about an inch (at most) on either side that would result in wounding as opposed to either an instantly fatal shot or a clean miss.
Again I think it has to be underlined that head and neck shots can be good choices under certain conditions.

Looking at your grouping on the target & you knowing the distance, I can't see how you could miss a shot when the opportunity rises. The variables are your hunting spot. Private land? Close to other hunted properties? When I bow hunt I'll go for the heart & lungs period. During controlled hunt I go for neck shot. Reason being during the bow hunt I know there's no one else around. During the controlled hunt the neighbouring properties are busy. I lost a deer about ten years ago. Slug to the boiler room but that deer still ran far enough to neighbouring property for someone else to claim that deer. So this is why I choose a neck shot in the gun hunt. Every time I've pulled the trigger that animal dropped. No blood trail, no tracking, no lost deer. With scopes & accurate ammo shouldn't worry. If the shot is questionable, don't shoot. Wait for the right opportunity or pass.

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Originally Posted by Rugger

. There's probably only about an inch (at most) on either side that would result in wounding as opposed to either an instantly fatal shot or a clean miss.
Again I think it has to be underlined that head and neck shots can be good choices under certain conditions.

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Both those shots were actually fairly perpendicular but at a downward angle...the pic below shows where I aim/hit, fairly high on the neck just below the head.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...6/unicorn2.jpg

This is a pic of the damage done to the neck, all I've done was skin and clear away some of the loose tissue around the exit wound...what you see is the gap left when 2 vertebrate have disintegrated. The trauma encompasses almost 50% the width of the neck...no blood flow, no air and no spine with a single shot.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...06/unicorn.jpg

Your right Rugger, it does take right condition and knowing your shooting distances etc. I've been hunting this scenario for many years, all my kills are about 25 yd range. I have full confidence in my shooting abilities and no problem making that shot.

This is my grouping at 50 yds with that Gun and bullet:

(the fouling shot is slightly high left..the next 3, yes 3, are sub 1" bull...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps95051e03.jpg


Let's remember, Rick (OP) is asking about using a shotgun (slug) at 37 yrds, so I am offering my opinion on taking a neck shot at those ranges....completely viable if you have confidence in hitting within 2'" of bull at 50 yrds and the deer is relaxed and offering a good broadside shot.

I don't think a Hunter should have to defend a shot that kills a deer instantly and drops a deer in their tracks..especially to other hunters.

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Originally Posted by Rick_ca

Not new to deer hunting just this year switching over to slug barrel and 4power scope in past I used 00buck shot but with eyesight (short sighted) I'm finding it easier to use a scope.

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don't want to start a debate on buck shot - just saying good for you (and the deer) that you switched!
neck and headshots are great as long as you can place them properly 100% of the time. if that's for you, just get a roll of dimes and place 'em at about 50m out in the bush and shoot from a similar set up as you intend to hunt (not bench-rest, unless you hunt bench-rest). if you miss one (without buck fever and all the time in the world) it's not for you. I accomplished quite a few head shoots, but would never go for a shot at the neck (especially upper neck from the side). I know someone how does nothing else for many years, but that's comparing apples to oranges. most hunters (only time a year they hold a rifle is in booze camp) have problems hitting the boiler room under real life conditions.
some people frown on hitting the shoulder blade. truth is that not that much meat is wasted in the end and most likely it won't run at all. so, if it quarters towards you, don't worry (unless you shoot an arrow).
look at some pictures; there are many like this
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_g4vLpyyJHpo/TOVv6yhNaUI/AAAAAAAAA10/7-0YinDHC3o/s1600/shot%2Bplacement.bmp
and remember to apply it in 3D; i.e. if you shoot from a treestand at short range, aim a bit higher so that you hit as much of the vitals as possible (if your scope is zeroed in at that range, if not you have to compensate for the lower bullet at that range on top of it!)

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

some people frown on hitting the shoulder blade. truth is that not that much meat is wasted in the end and most likely it won't run at all.

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That's a good point, another viable option Rick, a lot of guys use the shoulder shot to prevent a deer from running off into the bush at dusk never to be found or worse lost to coyotes. There are some local guys here take out the front shoulder when it's an option, drop the deer then use a second shot to finish. It's dispatches the animal quickly, no waiting for the bleed out..effective.

The larger the vital zone the better when starting out, Mike has shot a lot of deer, his experience lets him focus on a smaller kill zone but he understands the body language of the deer and knows when that is not a good shot.

With a shotgun slug or rifle a high shoulder shot will break the shoulder blade and anchor the deer while also taking out the lungs.

I focus on the boiler room, it does not move nearly as fast as the head.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

... There are some local guys here take out the front shoulder when it's an option, drop the deer then use a second shot to finish. ...

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intentionally setting you up for a second shot is certainly not what I meant!
if the deer is not perfectly perpendicular, you may hit the shoulder. although not perfect, I don't see a problem with that. hitting a little bit too far behind however might spoil you a lot of meat. again, I assume a full hit of the vitals in any circumstance.
those stories where someone tells you the first shot is to slow it down and the second to dispatch it, makes me wanna puke
one shot, one kill

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

remember to apply it in 3D; i.e. if you shoot from a treestand at short range, aim a bit higher so that you hit as much of the vitals as possible

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^^ do this, here is a good vid series describing the subject of shot placement (sorry if it has been seen before):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43dKaWfOguQ

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Agree with you 100% Johnny - but we have this discussion every year complete with the same anecdotal evidence complete with pictures and it always turns out the same....

Too bad we don't have some pictures of the times it doesn't work out, deer left to die with broken jaws, etc.

Silly thing is the *only* hunting board I've been on where a neck/head shot is *ever* discussed as a first choice shot.

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w.r., i'm with you on this one, I recall one of the first deer I shot, I had my chuck rifle .243 with 6x-scope. He was moving across a ridge about 75 yards out. The first thing I locked onto was his head, then I started to weigh the possible of missing that size of target, against the size of the boiler room. I made the adjustment to where the elbow on the front leg lies against the lower part of the girth and touched if off. the deer lurched forward and disappeared behind a cluster of young pines. When I eventually went up the ridge to check, he was laying behind the cluster of young pines. He had gone more than 35 yards from the point of impact, the bullet had passed straight through him scoring a direct hit on the heart.

My prep thing is to get a large piece of cardboard draw and cut out a rough image of a deer giving it a 15" girth. I set it up 50 yards away down a low slope, I shoot from a tree platform, so I'm able to negate the rise of the bullet traveling downward from a point of elevation. I usually set up on the point of the shoulder, because I've yet to see any deer with a target painted on him. The point of the shoulder becomes my bull's eye , it gives me about a 6" circumference of error, just in case the bullet goes a bit erratic, if it trails low in back of the shoulder it still scores the boiler room, if it trails up it should find the backbone or the neck, if it stays the course it breaks the shoulder. On one deer I missed the shoulder joint by a mere 2 1/2 inches, the bullet went through scapula, rib cage and out through the floor of the chest cavity. You just can't go wrong if you nail the boiler room.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
-Gun Nut

The biggest issue that most guys have to deal with, is their experience , with killing deer. Guys like Mike,...and me...have killed alot of deer.we don't get exited about the shot and are able to 'aim small', which allows us to 'miss small'. All of that being said, if I'm not hunting near swamp etc., I still take the "boiler room" shot on most occasions. A side note. Even a boiler room shot , pick a small target [sholder 2" spot] and aim for that, too many guys end up shooting at the whole deer.....and miss. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by jim

The biggest issue that most guys have to deal with, is their experience , with killing deer. Guys like Mike,...and me...have killed alot of deer.we don't get exited about the shot and are able to 'aim small', which allows us to 'miss small'. All of that being said, if I'm not hunting near swamp etc., I still take the "boiler room" shot on most occasions. A side note. Even a boiler room shot , pick a small target [sholder 2" spot] and aim for that, too many guys end up shooting at the whole deer.....and miss. Just my 2 cents.

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You make a good point here, Jim. The 2" spot behind shoulder is a good habit to get into. I see this target on any deer or moose, regardless of yardage or movement. Leave the neck shot to the "experts" and the rest of us should focus on that 2" spot behind the shoulder.

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Originally Posted by ysyg

You make a good point here, Jim. The 2" spot behind shoulder is a good habit to get into. I see this target on any deer or moose, regardless of yardage or movement. Leave the neck shot to the "experts" and the rest of us should focus on that 2" spot behind the shoulder.

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If you have the skills to hit a spot 2" behind the shoulder you have the skills to hit a spot 2" below the base of the head...it's nothing to do with 'experts'...it's just another option for guys who have confidence in their shooting abilities/skills.

It wasn't my intent to open a can of worms on this subject I don't consider myself an expert I have about 12 deer under my belt from past hunts with shotgun and 50cal ML, I should have put in my original post that I'm hunting a small acherage (sp) of land 15 max and the farm land behind it is hunted by a group so I'm looking to drop deer if I can in it tracks. I practice with the slug gun after sighting in (4boxes not cheap but want to be dead on) and I'm confident on my shot placement. What I am reading its boiler room as a norm but on the day and on the stance of the deer and its distance from me I guess it comes down to me on how I'm feeling (don't get buck feveranymore) and how pumped I am. Again sorry to have opened this can but just wanted oppinions thanks to all who responded.

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Originally Posted by Rick_ca

Again sorry to have opened this can but just wanted oppinions thanks to all who responded.

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No apologies needed, the concept of using shots outside some peoples comfort zone has always caused heated discussions. It's a topic that comes up every year. It just so happened to surface on your thread this year.

I have never understood why some hunters feel the need to criticize others hunters for their choices of shots.

Good post by the way....glad to hear you're open to considering methods of shooting deer that kills them quickly and has a better chance of recovery.

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Originally Posted by Rick_ca

hunting a small acherage (sp) of land 15 max and the farm land behind it is hunted by a group so I'm looking to drop deer if I can in it tracks.

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My dad has a property that turns into a lake, you would not want something running beyond the shot when there is standing water, I know what you mean. I try the high shoulder anchor shot in this location, the issue was that the last time I had that opportunity my rings had loosened up and the gun was shooting high by 6in not 48 hours after it was sighted in (note to self, check torque on screws).

The neck and head are about the same size targets but the head moves constantly and fast, I know I am not confident enough to shoot a deer in the head, even though shooting groundhogs at 200 yards is no big deal, not sure what it is but I am confident in a kill with the shoulder or boiler room so that is where I go. Dad has used the base of the neck shot a few times now, all close range and all dropped the deer, another guy at camp tried to finish off a deer with a head shot and did nothing but remove its lower jaw, this is why I do not like the head shot.

Best of luck this year.

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Originally Posted by Fox

this is why I do not like the head shot.

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I agree, I have never recommended a head shot, nor have I ever taken one, there is no percentage to it. Especially when a well placed neck shot severs (functionally) the head from the deer anyway (see my earlier pic). Once the spine is gone the deer dies and drops.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I agree, I have never recommended a head shot, nor have I ever taken one, there is no percentage to it. Especially when a well placed neck shot severs (functionally) the head from the deer anyway (see my earlier pic). Once the spine is gone the deer dies and drops.

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There was a guy back a while (who got banned) who used to essentially say if you cannot shoot it in the head then you are a useless hunter, not the opinion of most but exists by some.

Yes, you hit the vertebrae and sever the spinal cord the deer cannot move and it is a zero track job, I have seen a neck shot that has missed vitals though too.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Yes, you hit the vertebrae and sever the spinal cord the deer cannot move and it is a zero track job, I have seen a neck shot that has missed vitals though too.

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And I've seen a lot of shots where the guy is aiming at the boiler room and end up making a gut shot, rear hip, skin the belly hair and in one case actually hit the tail instead...it wasn't because of where they were aiming, it because of where they were hitting :)

Mote point, if your dead set against taking a neck shot, your not going to change your way of thinking, which is fine. Rick sounds like he's confident enough to be open to the option, so he will consider it if the opportunity presents itself.

the issue with the neck shot (aside from being able to hit within 1/2" where you aim 100% of the time) is that you need to know where the spine actually is. easy from behind, not so much from the side especially when you add to it movement.
personally, I don't have any problems with people who do it (with a 100% success rate). problem is that many try it out (without sufficient preparation) and nearly certainly mess it up. if all hunters would be great marksman, we would never see gut shots (or worse)...

When conditions are right, I like the neck shot. Conditions being close and confident. I'm 2 for 2 that way and love to see them drop in their tracks without a step.

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Originally Posted by Roper

...being close and confident. ...

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and where exactly does your bullet hit if you are close?
just saying: being close is not necessarily a good thing as there's more to it.

I'm confident in my shooting ability and after setting up scoped shotgun happy where it shoots at 30yrds and on the day if a deer presents itself to me I will decide then on where to shoot, and as I'm hunting from a ground blind and will have a shooting stick with me I will decide then on how it presents itself to me be it either shoulder or neck and a head shot wont even be considered.

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Originally Posted by Rick_ca

I'm confident in my shooting ability and after setting up scoped shotgun happy where it shoots at 30yrds and on the day if a deer presents itself to me I will decide then on where to shoot, and as I'm hunting from a ground blind and will have a shooting stick with me I will decide then on how it presents itself to me be it either shoulder or neck and a head shot wont even be considered.

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Nothing to worry about then, you are good to go.

When I was 16 I had a monster buck some out, I was shaking like a leaf. Just because I could put 5 shots within an inch at 100 yards did not mean I would have been able to take this deer in the head or neck. I waited for a boiler room opportunity and it never came, I watched the 12+ point buck walk up the hill without an ethical (in my mind) shot to take on the animal due to my personal beliefs and my abilities. I was dumb enough to tell the guys at the camp about the experience I had and how cool it was to see a deer like this at 50 yards for such a long time and just take it all in. All I got from the head of the camp was "Why did you not shoot it in the head? You can hit a pop can why not just shoot it in the head?". This is one of the many reason I left that camp, no need for that type of BS and no need for something like that with someone wanting to get into the sport of hunting. The interesting part is that about 4 years later a guy with a semi shot 9 shots at a yearling, he hit the guts and 3 of the 4 legs. The guy who had yelled at me for not shooting the deer in the head then went up and shot this yearling in the head at 5 yards and took off the bottom jaw, only to have the deer look up at him, he then had to shoot it twice in the neck to finish off the deer.

This was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen while hunting, this was absolutely horrible for the animal and made me want to quit right there, these two "seasoned" hunters shooting at a running deer too far away to make a kill shot, not taking enough time to make a good shot and not even being concerned at what they did to a living creature. This is why I like a boiler room shot, I feel that it gives me room for the animal to move, if the bullet hits a branch and deflects a bit it will not change the outcome and I will never see a deer or hear a deer like I did that day.

It is all about personal ethics, nobody from this forum will be out there beside you when you hunt, you will know at the time what is a good shot and if and where you should take that shot. You have nobody to look to by making the decision than yourself and I hope that you take the animal down quickly with as minimal pain as possible, no matter where it is shot.

I wish I have had the hunting opportunities that the rest of the more experienced hunters here have had and would be able to have a larger pool to pull from but I am going with what I know from my experiences. I have hunted deer for 16 years, I have issues with attention and staying still, hence why I only have 5 deer under my belt in that time. 2 have been shot with a crossbow, both boiler room, 1 at 15 yards, 1 at 43 yards. I shot the other 3 with the 12ga, 1 at 15 yards with challanger slugs, 1 at 60 yards with a hornady sabot slug and 1 at about 10 feet with buckshot, all shots to the lungs and none went more than 100 yards, the buckshot one never moved.

The problem for me Fox, is the recovery....I hunt in the deep bush, with few trails. When a deer is hit, no matter how well the 'boiler room' shot is placed, it runs. For years I was putting bullets thru the hearts of many a deer, but they still ran after being hit.

It was especially difficult after an evening hunt, when a deer run of even 30 yds into the thick bush/swamp requires a recovery. Then it's the sitting for an hour in the dark waiting for the deer to bleed out, then following blood trail thru the nasty crap deer run thru when hit and having to flag the trail so you can find my way back out etc etc. Then having to manually haul a 150lb deer back out to a trail...all of it effort that can be avoided.

Shifting my 'boiler' aim point over a foot or two across to the neck eliminated all the problems of recovery. The deer dropped in my shooting lane and recovery has become a non issue.

I can tell you story after story of deer being lost (for found) or lost to coyotes after sitting in the bush over night from guys taking the 'sure' boiler room shots..but they result in the inevitable runs; good shots, shots that didn't leave a blood trail or poorly hit (gut shots), doesn't matter...the deer run when they are hit. Not a real issue for some, but one that I found I can avoid when the opportunity presents itself.

Like I said earlier, your obviously not comfortable with taking that shot and you're not likely to change your mind, but for other guys it's a viable 'sure' shot with benefits :)

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Originally Posted by Fox

Nothing to worry about then, you are good to go.

When I was 16 I had a monster buck some out, I was shaking like a leaf. Just because I could put 5 shots within an inch at 100 yards did not mean I would have been able to take this deer in the head or neck. I waited for a boiler room opportunity and it never came, I watched the 12+ point buck walk up the hill without an ethical (in my mind) shot to take on the animal due to my personal beliefs and my abilities. I was dumb enough to tell the guys at the camp about the experience I had and how cool it was to see a deer like this at 50 yards for such a long time and just take it all in. All I got from the head of the camp was "Why did you not shoot it in the head? You can hit a pop can why not just shoot it in the head?". This is one of the many reason I left that camp, no need for that type of BS and no need for something like that with someone wanting to get into the sport of hunting. The interesting part is that about 4 years later a guy with a semi shot 9 shots at a yearling, he hit the guts and 3 of the 4 legs. The guy who had yelled at me for not shooting the deer in the head then went up and shot this yearling in the head at 5 yards and took off the bottom jaw, only to have the deer look up at him, he then had to shoot it twice in the neck to finish off the deer.

This was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen while hunting, this was absolutely horrible for the animal and made me want to quit right there, these two "seasoned" hunters shooting at a running deer too far away to make a kill shot, not taking enough time to make a good shot and not even being concerned at what they did to a living creature. This is why I like a boiler room shot, I feel that it gives me room for the animal to move, if the bullet hits a branch and deflects a bit it will not change the outcome and I will never see a deer or hear a deer like I did that day.

It is all about personal ethics, nobody from this forum will be out there beside you when you hunt, you will know at the time what is a good shot and if and where you should take that shot. You have nobody to look to by making the decision than yourself and I hope that you take the animal down quickly with as minimal pain as possible, no matter where it is shot.

I wish I have had the hunting opportunities that the rest of the more experienced hunters here have had and would be able to have a larger pool to pull from but I am going with what I know from my experiences. I have hunted deer for 16 years, I have issues with attention and staying still, hence why I only have 5 deer under my belt in that time. 2 have been shot with a crossbow, both boiler room, 1 at 15 yards, 1 at 43 yards. I shot the other 3 with the 12ga, 1 at 15 yards with challanger slugs, 1 at 60 yards with a hornady sabot slug and 1 at about 10 feet with buckshot, all shots to the lungs and none went more than 100 yards, the buckshot one never moved.

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awesome post!
this is so typical...
I tend to hit what I aim for (always and that's a fact), simply because I pass more often than I shoot.
I don't hunt in booze camps and if some weekend warrior gets upset why I've not taken a shot, he better don't tell it to my face. Otherwise he'll learn what a good hit to the head is...

regarding loosing deer that are well shot (which I find very doubtful) is to have a capable dog. end of story.

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

regarding loosing deer that are well shot (which I find very doubtful) is to have a capable dog. end of story.

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To this post, almost any dog is better than a human at tracking, the number of deer that labs find, poodles, really anything is better than nothing when you lose the trail.

I still find it insane that it was illegal for so long to use a dog for tracking during a bow hunt, just put the bow away and take the dog out.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

If you have the skills to hit a spot 2" behind the shoulder you have the skills to hit a spot 2" below the base of the head...it's nothing to do with 'experts'...it's just another option for guys who have confidence in their shooting abilities/skills.

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Not quite Mike. A deer can move it's neck/head in the blink of an eye. Not so easily with the boiler room.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Not quite Mike. A deer can move it's neck/head in the blink of an eye. Not so easily with the boiler room.

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All in the timing of your shot, if the deer is relaxed, they don't move when the shot is fired...especially at less than 50 yrds.

Anyone who has watched deer, knows when they are going to move. I usually take a handful of apples out to keep them occupied and get them to relax.

In fact 'movement' is usually quite the opposite with a deer instincts....if you grunt for example just prior to shooting what does a deer do...it freezes and stares at you....lots of time for a well placed shot.

My preferred shot is in the boiler, but that base of the head/top of neck shot is a sweetheart of a shot if you are good enough to confidently do it. Instant drop, bleeds out and little to no meat spoilage. Most of my shots are 100-200 yds so I take the boiler shot (open agriculture fields) but I have taken that neck shot a couple times and it's great, but only if you can do it, if you can't shoot MOA at minimum and preferably sub MOA, don't do it. I personally hate the head shot, but that's my opinion, I could do it but never have.

Love to see all the great shooters out there hit the neck of a deer with a collie dog on it

Every deer I have ever taken was hit in the bread basket behind the front shoulder and I have never had one make it further then 20 yards after being hit. It is the largest target and deals the most amount of damage. Shooting the neck just wastes an awful lot of meat, IMHO.

Boiler room. If you're an expert shot and nothing goes wrong, you'll leave a neat hole low in the rib meat - next to no loss. If you're not an expert shot, or something goes wrong - well, you'll have wanted to been aiming at the biggest target with the greatest margin of error.

This is my 50 year of hunting big game and believe me I have killed more deer and bear,than you can imagine.As a young Hunter I was cockey and was on the military shooting team,so I can shoot. It was probably my 10 or so deer. As I squeezed the shot the buck head went up a bit and I took out the wind pipe and he went down. Waiting for the heavy breathing to stop,he jumped up as nothing was wrong than I spined him for a quick kill. I'm still able to hit a dime at 30 yards( distance to the bear bait) but always take the lung shot now. The videos of my last two bear kills are on here. None of the animals I kill go far. Know where to shoot for any possible angle.
Iike mike said, he uses a grunt call to distract the buck,smart. I always used a doe bleat when using my bow.

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Originally Posted by annuvin

Every deer I have ever taken was hit in the bread basket behind the front shoulder and I have never had one make it further then 20 yards after being hit. It is the largest target and deals the most amount of damage. Shooting the neck just wastes an awful lot of meat, IMHO.

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Lucky on the 20 yards, even a full bore slug through the heart has no guarantee of dropping them and sometimes they can go for a long ways without a vital organ or two.

Mike - you are lucky you haven't had one run and its only luck. Just like anybody shooting for the boiler room doesn't mean a perfect shot will ensue. Animals will move as they see fit and you will miss. Anyone claiming they have never missed a shot while deer hunting in a long career is suspect to me.

I would never take a headshot. Hate the idea of neck shots too but I would take one if things looked perfect. Nothing wrong with taking that perfect shot but that doesn't mean I don't accept the fact that a miss or wounding can occur. It can and will happen. It certainly does not mean I am not confident in my shooting skills either. You are not punching paper after all.

My two cents - you have a big target with a boiler room shot, why not take it?

BTW - I pulverized an 8 point bucks heart and lungs with a clean slug shot and it ran 80 yards before falling down. Nothing is guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

My two cents - you have a big target with a boiler room shot, why not take it?

BTW - I pulverized an 8 point bucks heart and lungs with a clean slug shot and it ran 80 yards before falling down. Nothing is guaranteed.

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You asked and answered your own question Jack....as I said in my post to Fox...it's all about the recovery...why take a shot when chances are it will run... over a shot when you know they won't..

Oh...and yes I will disagree..if you sever the spine of a deer it will literally drop dead...100% guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Lucky on the 20 yards, even a full bore slug through the heart has no guarantee of dropping them and sometimes they can go for a long ways without a vital organ or two.

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I shot all of them with a 30-06 using 180 grain Winchester Power Points. One dropped in its tracks and the other three left a blood trail large enough for a blind man to follow.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

You asked and answered your own question Jack....as I said in my post to Fox...it's all about the recovery...why take a shot when chances are it will run... over a shot when you know they won't..

Oh...and yes I will disagree..if you sever the spine of a deer it will literally drop dead...100% guaranteed.

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Drop, but not necessarily dead.

Spinal shot-- you need to know some anatomy.
Dorsal spine--- over the chest--- you'l paralyse the back legs. There may be some front leg movement but no ability to get upright and run. They can still breath with no impairment. It will need a finishing shot quickly, please.

Neck spinal shot---in the lower half of the neck, paralysis of both legs occurs but they can still breath and lift their head off ground. It will need a finishing shot quickly, please.

Upper neck in the C1/C2 region where the head and neck meet-- you'll get a paralysing shot and they will not be able to breath or lift their heads off the ground. But their hearts are still beating and so pumping loads of oxygenated blood to their brains-- so they stay awake until oxygen depletion with can take at least 5-10 minutes. The only exception to this would be a hit that severed both carotid arteries and both vertebral arteries. That's not something you can judge from the look of the wound. So again, to be kind and ethical, it will need a finishing shot quickly, please.

And those finishing shots should be the broadside/ through the chest/ double lung heart shot that you should have done for your first shot.

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Originally Posted by annuvin

I shot all of them with a 30-06 using 180 grain Winchester Power Points. One dropped in its tracks and the other three left a blood trail large enough for a blind man to follow.

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You are still lucky that you have not had to follow any, even a 30-06 will not drop a deer with a boiler room shot 100% of the time. I know from experience, not from deer I have shot but from deer others have shot, no gun stops then 100% of the time unless you break the spinal cord or hit the brain, those are the only 100% anchor shots. Dad hammered a busk at about 30 yards with a 30-06 180gr in the lungs and heart, deer still went 75 yards. 270 to the lungs, deer went 1/2km, it had dogs on it and the adrenaline was up, there was no blood trail for the last 10 yards or so when we found it, just kept going on nothing.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

You asked and answered your own question Jack....as I said in my post to Fox...it's all about the recovery...why take a shot when chances are it will run... over a shot when you know they won't..

Oh...and yes I will disagree..if you sever the spine of a deer it will literally drop dead...100% guaranteed.

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The arrogance of your statement is something else.

You can miss a neck shot and miss a boiler room shot. Deer can move and twitch at any time. I spined one at 70 yards and it tried to crawl away. My nephew heard it at two hundred yards away - Not pretty and I will never forget it. Looking back I did everything right but deer are wild and can move without warning. BTW the spine was severed above the front shoulders. Clean through.

That was a boiler room shot that went wrong cause the seemingly relaxed deer decided to move/duck quickly. Follow up shot was through the neck cause that is all I had to aim at and it was dead with that one.

So you never missed a shot on a deer or had one go sideways?....

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Originally Posted by Fox

You are still lucky that you have not had to follow any, even a 30-06 will not drop a deer with a boiler room shot 100% of the time. I know from experience, not from deer I have shot but from deer others have shot, no gun stops then 100% of the time unless you break the spinal cord or hit the brain, those are the only 100% anchor shots. Dad hammered a busk at about 30 yards with a 30-06 180gr in the lungs and heart, deer still went 75 yards. 270 to the lungs, deer went 1/2km, it had dogs on it and the adrenaline was up, there was no blood trail for the last 10 yards or so when we found it, just kept going on nothing.

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Take out a shoulder and both lungs will anchor a deer. That is the shot I used from the start of my deer hunting career up until about 10 years ago. With a .444 it wastes a lot of meat. I now try for a ribs only shot - and even with the .444, it leaves a tracking job - but its a pretty good blood trail and usually only a hundred yards or so.

As far as how far can a wounded deer run - no heart - about 15 seconds. No lungs about 45 seconds. How can it go in that length of time? I've seen guys tell of deer that had their lungs "destroyed" and ran 400 yards, but look at the gut pile and see it was only a single lung hit. A deer can go a long way on one lung.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Take out a shoulder and both lungs will anchor a deer. That is the shot I used from the start of my deer hunting career up until about 10 years ago. With a .444 it wastes a lot of meat. I now try for a ribs only shot - and even with the .444, it leaves a tracking job - but its a pretty good blood trail and usually only a hundred yards or so.

As far as how far can a wounded deer run - no heart - about 15 seconds. No lungs about 45 seconds. How can it go in that length of time? I've seen guys tell of deer that had their lungs "destroyed" and ran 400 yards, but look at the gut pile and see it was only a single lung hit. A deer can go a long way on one lung.

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The shoulder is good, you break both of them and they cannot run on the 2 legs, 3 yes, 2 no, this is why the high shoulder shot is considered ideal on long range shots due to the anchor, although there is no way you can take out the 2 shoulders the lungs and the heart in one shot, unless you use a cannon ball.

As for the long run, I don't know what to tell you, the deer had no blood left in it but kept going, almost as if the deer was running dead.

The thought that if you hit the lungs then the blood cannot re-oxygenate and the deer will bleed out as well as have no oxygen to the brain and muscles or take out the heart and have no pump to circulate the blood, but the running of the deer acts like CPR in moving the blood around and the lungs are still functioning to oxygenate the blood. I have heard more now that the double lung is better than the heart shot as lungs bleed about as much as the heart but starve the blood of oxygen.

As for the time, deer can really move, a deers top speed is around 50 km/h, or 0.0138km/s, at 15s running that is 208m, about 200 yards, at 45s that is 621m traveled in the time it takes for the deer to die based on your numbers, it is possible and it has been seen by a number of people.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

The arrogance of your statement is something else.

You can miss a neck shot and miss a boiler room shot. Deer can move and twitch at any time. I spined one at 70 yards and it tried to crawl away. My nephew heard it at two hundred yards away - Not pretty and I will never forget it. Looking back I did everything right but deer are wild and can move without warning. BTW the spine was severed above the front shoulders. Clean through.

That was a boiler room shot that went wrong cause the seemingly relaxed deer decided to move/duck quickly. Follow up shot was through the neck cause that is all I had to aim at and it was dead with that one.

So you never missed a shot on a deer or had one go sideways?....

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not sure Jack why you figure pointing out a logical conclusion in your statement is arrogant..it was just an observation.

I could, as could anyone else who has anytime in the field, tell stories of deer who have ugly deaths with boiler room shots so why you're singling out a 'spine' shot seems irrelevant.

The fact that you used a neck shot to finish off a deer tells me that you know it's a kill shot and that under the right conditions (as mentioned earlier in the thread) you could have used that shot as an option in the first place....which is what the OP was asking.

No at 70 yards I wouldn't have used it in the first place. Too much can go wrong - IMO

Mike the arrogance I speak of is the blanket statement that a spine shot kills instantly every time guaranteed. That deer I mention above had its spine severed and lived till I put one more at the only target it provided. Exactly opposite of your claim.

While its a kill shot, given target size I would not consider a neck shot to be a high percentage target. In other words its easy to miss and given the fact deer can move so quickly, it can and will happen. I'm not saying never do them either.... Great if you have compliant pet deer and have the skill to do it right every time.

I am not a sharp shooter so I will continue putting one in the boiler room every time if possible. It puts meat on my table and for the record most are DRT and very few run on me.

To the OP

At short ranges the heart and lungs offer the best bet to put meat on the table - IMO. Don't have to get fancy, they aren't hard to kill.

My first deer I shot was a spine shot. Iy dropped in its tracks but was still very alive when I got to it.

Ive also taken the heart completely out of a doe and she ran 100m before dropping

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Originally Posted by MikePal

You asked and answered your own question Jack....as I said in my post to Fox...it's all about the recovery...why take a shot when chances are it will run... over a shot when you know they won't..

Oh...and yes I will disagree..if you sever the spine of a deer it will literally drop dead...100% guaranteed.

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