How do you think this privileged elitist with the famous daddy will affect our right to hunt and own guns? I figure they'll be confiscating them within a few years..
This result makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.
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How do you think this privileged elitist with the famous daddy will affect our right to hunt and own guns? I figure they'll be confiscating them within a few years..
This result makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.
Wait and see. One of our problems in the hunting/firearms community is a national voice. There are 4 million guns owners in Canada and that is a sizable block of votes. We have several organizations that are not unified and we need one unified voice to act on our interests.
So it turns out that the people running Trudeau's campaign are the same people who ran Ontario Liberals and will soon require payouts.
Hmmmm. Did you just hear about the secret deals that Ontario Government made with Teachers Unions. They paid the Unions 1 million (each) and they will be giving raises by taking money from the pot that was ear marked for students who need help. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm and teachers say they care about th student. Easy to see that is a Lie.
So word is coming out Justin owes the unions and Ontario Liberals some major big payouts. ADSCAM 2.0 the Dark Side (Coming Soon).
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Originally Posted by line052
What's the source of this 4 million number?
There are 2 million firearms licences.
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Originally Posted by greatwhite
If you have some facts to substantiate the deal cut with teachers please reference it. I have 3 teachers in my family. Not one of them have heard this type of information from Union reps. In fact the updates are in the 'claw back' nature.
I highly doubt they took 'money' from a pot that was scheduled for supporting special needs students unless you are privy to Provincial Budget Allocations...again....some facts please.
Read the News there is an exclusive. Also it is going to be discussed today in Toronto by the NDP and PC.
You do have a computer don't you??
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Originally Posted by krakadawn
I have to ask you are a Liberal that believes the Ontario Liberals have never done anything wrong.
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Originally Posted by krakadawn
I'm guessing you haven't ever used a computer. Correct.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle26900173/
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Originally Posted by krakadawn
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...service=mobile
"Ontario’s Liberal government paid $1-million directly to the province’s high school teachers’ union as part of a deal to defuse one of its most explosive labour disputes, a document obtained by The Globe and Mail reveals.
In addition, the government financed raises for teachers by diverting money from a fund for special programs that help struggling students graduate."
I'm too slow at this posting thing.
You can read can you???
tario’s Liberal government paid $1-million directly to the province’s high school teachers’ union as part of a deal to defuse one of its most explosive labour disputes, a document obtained by The Globe and Mail reveals.In addition, the government financed raises for teachers by diverting money from a fund for special programs that help struggling students graduate.
These details are included in the confidential 42-page document that spells out the terms of a three-year labour agreement the province and the Ontario Secondary School Teachers’ Federation reached in August. The government and the union have kept the document secret, but The Globe and Mail obtained a copy.
The million-dollar payout is highly unusual: The government agreed to compensate the union for the cost of negotiations because problems with the province’s new bargaining system caused talks to drag on for so long.
The agreement ended a year of tough negotiations during which the union unleashed strikes at school boards in the Toronto area and Northern Ontario, and the government legislated the teachers back to work. Wrestling with an $8.5-billion deficit, the province insists all labour deals be “net-zero,” meaning something must be cut to offset the cost of raises.
The Liberals need to keep a strong relationship with OSSTF, in part because teachers are key members of the party’s political base and in part because no labour dispute draws more attention than those involving schools. The timing allowed the party to clear the dispute off its plate ahead of the federal election, in which Premier Kathleen Wynne campaigned hard for Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau.
The deal consists of a memorandum of settlement, a letter of understanding, six letters of agreement and two appendices. And they show the government paid OSSTF millions of dollars and won few concessions.
Most significantly, the government agreed to give $1-million in taxpayer money to OSSTF to cover the cost of the negotiations.
“The Crown shall pay to OSSTF the sum of one million dollars ($1,000,000) to offset the cost of central collective bargaining no later than ninety (90) days after the ratification process,” the memorandum of settlement says.
The deal does not make clear why taxpayers are on the hook for OSSTF’s expenses. The union collects dues from its 60,000 members to pay for activities such as negotiations. Education Minister Liz Sandals’s office refused to comment on the payment.
But union and government officials said the province agreed to pay the money after admitting the collective bargaining process it instituted last year, which was supposed to lead to faster and less acrimonious negotiations, made the talks longer and more complicated.
The new process, in which some contract matters are negotiated centrally between the government and the unions while others are left to individual school boards, resulted in more work and took more time than previous rounds, which made negotiating more expensive for the union, OSSTF president Paul Elliott told The Globe. Because the government legislation was responsible, he said, the government agreed to compensate OSSTF. A government source corroborated Mr. Elliott’s account.
Brian Smeenk, a Toronto labour lawyer who was not involved in the negotiations, said such a payment from an employer to its union is unusual. In some cases, he said, an employer might agree to pay employees’ wages while they serve on a bargaining committee. But simply writing the union a $1-million cheque is not common.
“I’ve never seen a subsidization clause that goes beyond paying for lost salaries. This unusual case … is not a compensation for actual costs incurred; it’s what one might call a ‘sweetener,’” he said.
Mr. Smeenk said it is generally not a good idea for an employer to pay a union’s bargaining costs because each side in a negotiation should be responsible for its own interests.
“From the perspective of a prudent employer, you don’t want to do that, because each party should pay its own costs, because each party is there to protect the interests of its own side,” he said. “As the employer, you don’t want to provide an economic incentive to the union to make your life difficult.”
The document also reveals where the government found the money for a 1.5-per-cent raise and 1-per-cent lump sum payment to high school teachers. The province has repeatedly insisted the deal with OSSTF is a “net-zero,” but refused to divulge how it paid for the pay bumps.
The money came from two sources: “The available funding for secondary programming enhancement and voluntary payout of discounted net present value of future retirement gratuities provides for increases to salaries, wages and direct compensation,” the memorandum of settlement says.
Secondary programming enhancement was a pool of money set up in 2008 to hire extra staff for programs to help students at risk of dropping out. The programs offer such things as co-op work experience stints and courses that count towards college credits.
The government was supposed to add money to the fund for five years. But in 2012, the fifth year, as a cost-saving measure, the province decided not to contribute any more money. Mr. Elliott said that payment would have been about $20-million. That amount is now being used for the raise and lump sum payment.
The second source of funds is a rejigging in the contract of how banked sick days are paid out. Teachers will now have the option of cashing in banked sick days next year, instead of waiting for retirement, but will receive a lower rate. This is expected to save money, which will be put towards the raises.
Ms. Sandals’s spokeswoman, Alessandra Fusco, insisted there were “no cuts to the classroom” to fund the raises. The government’s rationale is that because the secondary programming enhancement money was diverted from the fund before it was spent in the classroom, it does not constitute a cut.
“We can confirm that modest wage increases were offset by savings through the collective agreements, with no cuts to the classroom,” she wrote in an e-mail.
In another significant provision, the government is giving OSSTF at least $5-million to help set up a union-controlled fund to take over the administration of teacher benefits. The province’s school boards will contribute at least $12-million.
At the moment, individual school boards handle benefit payments. The plan is to consolidate them all into a single fund. The fund’s board of directors will consist of five union members and four representatives of school boards and the government.
Ms. Fusco said the OSSTF trust is one of six new programs that will consolidate health, life and dental benefits for teachers and other workers in the education sector. The new trusts will merge more than 1,000 benefit plans with 72 school boards into a handful of larger funds. She said government and school boards will recoup startup costs because they will save money down the road.
“Establishing benefit trusts will reduce the costs of providing and administering benefits due to an increase in benefits purchasing power, establishing larger risk pools and sharing administrative services among the trusts,” she wrote in an e-mail.
Among the other provisions of the deal:
- The government agreed not to change job security, contracting out, professional assignments and supervision, teacher workload, staff meetings and class size. Job security is a particularly important point for teachers in an era of declining enrolment.
- The province will not be allowed to launch new “initiatives” such as testing programs or teaching techniques. These will be formulated by a group of government and union representatives tasked with creating a new “policy program memorandum.” This section also contains a provision for an extra PD day.
- The province agreed to settle four union grievances and fully compensate the grievers. There were no details on the grievances.
- School boards, the union and the government are meeting, with a facilitator, to discuss regulation 274, which obliges principals to hire teachers based on seniority. The rule helps the unions, but critics charge teachers are not hired on merit. The discussions are supposed to conclude before the end of the year.
The province has reached deals with all but one of its teacher unions; it is still negotiating with the Elementary Teachers’ Federation of Ontario. The government says it wants ETFO to accept the same deal the OSSTF received. The province is also negotiating with five groups of school support staff workers, including some who are represented by OSSTF.
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Originally Posted by krakadawn
GW are you feeling a little upset about the federal election results? :scream:Try not to take it personally ,and let it ruin the rest of your days. Life will go on , the sky is not falling , it will likely not make much of a difference in how you live your life, ( unless you let it), in the grand scheme of things. PS . How did this thread get into the hunting section?
If the cons. won do you honestly think they would not owe something to their supporters? GW you must be naive to think that is not how it works in all political parties.
Probably more than you would ever know.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
My comments were specific to ETFO not OSSTF
Whether I am a Liberal or not is not the question. A better question would be whether I had any support for our Premier CW. That answer is pretty clear.....not hardly!
You can pack in the sarcasm.......sorry your Conservatives got trounced but most of the response to our federal election was pretty much on the map and that as the PM stated was his responsibility.
I stand corrected...typo...Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
I could have sworn that Ontario Liberals campaigned on transparency was that a lie?? You wait and see this deal with the teachers union will become a criminal investigation. How many criminal investigations are they doing now I think it is 4. Ontario Liberal government not much different then the mafia which is not something anyone can disagree about.
Many of those involved in adscam are still in the Liberal backrooms (you did know that didn't you). It's party time to again. Cha Ching. Curious why do you think it is OK for Liberal governments to steal??
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Originally Posted by fishermccann
Gee with Liberals everywhere around you , your life must suck right about now. You do go on and on...... your party lost , get over it. I like to hear you rant and complain till you are "red" in the face. Good times, good fun.
Tony Clement stole $50million. You can relax, the truth is the Liberal and Conservative politicians are 99% the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Wow. The Wynne government caved completely to the teacher unions and took money from at risk kids to boost teacher salaries, who would have ever thought.... Look, this is the new normal and perfectly acceptable in Ontario. If it wasn't they wouldn't be giving majorities to these morally bankrupt people. But they do. Bury your guns and pay cash.
If you read the details of this agreement she has basically signed away control of education to the unions.
it's only going to get worse. Wynne is now impossible to remove.
Not to worry I have plenty of money hidden for my kids when I am gone. They won't have to worry how far Ontario gets sucked down. They can laugh at the loosers.
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Originally Posted by fishermccann
Teachers and Unions don't really care about kids which has now been shown as 100% fact.
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Originally Posted by terrym
The 'facts' you claim are 100% true, are only the voices in you head talking again. Surmise and conjecture, you are really good at that.
GreatWhite, everyone hears your point and you are absolutely correct - but Terry is right too....thanks to big unions and Toronto voters the LIberals seem to have a blank cheque in Ontario - and they're not shy to use it
Young Justin the high school drama teacher/ski instructor will also have some large debts to repay,
it's not going to get any better
The Ontario liberals not only paid I million to the OSSTF , they paid the Waterloo District Catholic School Teachers Association I million to settle their contract .
A friend of mine is the secretary for them and confirmed this as fact .
They don't care about getting caught greasing unions at $1M a shot. What are you going to do ? Call the OPP? See, I made a funny there..........
If I am incorrect then why did the Liberal government give the Unions each 1 million and cut the budget for kids who need help to use to pay teachers. You are aware of this are you not??? So my facts are correct as usual.
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Originally Posted by fishermccann
220 Billion and counting for Ontario Liberals
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Originally Posted by outdoorlife
The program to encourage kids to not drop out is a joke. It's money well saved. These are the kids that make the high school diploma not worth the paper it's written on. Cutting the funding is overdue.
The Government tried a "new" negotiating model and it actually took much longer. They decided to cover some of the bargaining costs for the employees. Ever been to court GW? Often the one side sues the other side for court costs. Much the same deal.
The Globe and Maill is a corporate newspaper (ie. very anti-union) just as the Toronto Star is very pro liberal and teachers.
I don't see much changing for us hunters & Fisherman. We will still have limited tags. The natives will allowed to continue to overharvest fish & game.Ammo & powder will continue to be in short supply.
The most ironic thing about this is Harper emerged from Rideau Hall, confirming he had asked Gov. Gen. David Johnston to dissolve Parliament for a general election to be held Monday, Oct. 19.
Had Harper just kept quiet & not asked for an election we would not be talking about this yet... LOL
Then the money should have been used else where in the education system. School today is half of what it was 30 years ago. Actual teaching is approx 4.5 hrs a day, use to be 6 hrs when I went. What my 16 year old son is taking in grade 11 we did in grade 8/9.
So as I said this was to line the unions with more money.
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Originally Posted by DanO
Can a moderator move this topic please? There is a politics section, FYI. This is definitely not hunting 101...
1,989,181
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f.../index-eng.htm
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Originally Posted by welsh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthman
I agree and it is now where it belongs.
Just as long as the NDP never get in, I'll be happy!!!
Actually, If I had no choice between the two, I'd vote for mulcair before Pierre..err,, JustinQuote:
Originally Posted by chris lavoie
I didn't vote liberal, but if Pierre was so bad why so many years in office. If Justin doesn't stand by his promises they can just vote him out next election. He's favourable to the young, aboriginal and new immigrants. There are apparently more of his supporters than us who voted otherwise.
NEVER NDP!!!
People only want majority rule, if their side wins, otherwise it is unfair.
70% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Go smoke a Liberal Cigarette and calm down. You do know how to calm down rightttt? Im pretty sure most teachers care about students...at least all my teachers did.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Agreed. My wife and are both teachers. We care about our students. And I am NOT pro union in the least. In fact I have gone against my colleagues on a number of issues. Some of them to complain a lot. I got into teaching because I actually enjoy it. It's a rewarding job.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams
You are some of the very few and I know that for a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splaker
Glad you said that Splaker. I have a family full of teachers who are all extremely hard working, caring individuals who commit many hours over and above what some would consider the minimum. I could cite many instances of going way beyond in looking after their students or assisting families and we're not talking just extra curricular here.
They get unfairly blamed for the sensationalism that Unions create....hell my family doesn't even support the Union actions and would just like to get back to doing their job without Union dictated actions.
Instead of generalizing the blame on 'teachers', let's be more accurate and specific and lay the blame on current and past governments for how they have chosen to create 'chaos' in the system. The recent Globe and Mail reports are a pretty good example of the governments poor handling. The same thing goes back to John Snobleton's admitted tactics under a previous government's incompetencies.
I don't think everyone is putting all teachers in the same boat. I also have some family members that are teachers and very hardworking. I also know many people who are not teachers that go above and beyond that are hard working, caring individuals who commit many hours over and above etc. This is not something that only teachers are capable of doing. My brother worked 37 years for the board of education as a custodian for the first 25 years and the remainder as a Building Services Supervisor. He also was a union representative and vice president for some of those years. I have heard all the facts over the years from my brother who was deeply respected by teachers , maintenance staff and administrative staff. Unfortunately many are in it for themselves and it has become a chronic problem over the years stemming waay back . It will take many more years to change the mindset of these teachers because many of us have lost respect for them based on real facts. It turns my stomach knowing what I been told over the years and what I have witnessed.Quote:
Originally Posted by krakadawn
certainly not painting all teachers with the same brush, but there are some pretty rotten ones out there too. so what's the system for giving credit to those who deserve and boot those out who should never ended up in the job to begin with?? law enforcement, same thing - all across public service the same problem.
blaming governments for that is what we typically do, but that has and will be pretty ineffective. even political parties are only puppets and not the puppeteer. lobbyism and corruption have and will exist, but the degree we see it today is epic.
Unions and the media have decided that old steve has to go. ultimately they decided on Justin, because he’s easier to control. If tom had a nicer smile and no brain we could just ended up with him as well. half the voters will vote what they get told to vote, not because of any particular reasoning and personal preference.
The unions became way too powerful. They run our country
The government insisted that no new money could be added to achieve the settlement. Most of the cost of education is salaries. In order to get the teachers a raise (after many years of no raise) they robbed Peter to pay Paul. The at-risk program isn't worth the money. So they removed the teachers and the funding for the program to gain some money to get a settlement by offering a wage increase.
They've also removed the classroom numbers caps so the classes can range from 25-35 or more. They do this so they can lay off teachers. Fair enough that's managements right. So instead of 3 classes of 20 kids you have 2 classes of 30 kids. Does that effect the kids ..... of course it does. I have less time to interact with each kid and I change how I test the kids because marking increases with 30 kids.
I coached almost every year and I had a stream enhancement program along with a classroom trout hatchery. I too got tired of the 3:20 track club (the teachers that are heading for their cars before the buses leave). They get paid the same money as me but they do nothing beyond the teaching day and the union defends their right to do nothing beyond teaching. I'm not a fan of unions but I've seen what the private sector does to good, hard-working employees when there's no union. I'll take the union with all its warts.
because of our unions here, there is very little investment in the private sector; i.e. manufacturing.
what is unionized you cannot touch, so any major for profit corporation shuts down the entire plant (instead of dealing with the union, you get rid of the entire problem) as soon as the plant payed for itself and before major upgrades would be required.
so there are de facto significantly less well paying jobs - because of unions!
less jobs means more competition (including other sectors) and people have to accept lower wages and whatever job they can possibly get - thanks to unions!
the public sector is tax funded. if you think these are safe, well paying jobs, look at Detroit's public servants.
Decided to finally chime in on this 2nd thread as well.
1) Nice to see a teacher or two point out that its not "teachers" but gov'ts, none more so than this one.
2) Nice to see a couple more teachers be a little more honest and include their Unions. Who shoulder most of the blame (imo) including the blame for the publics animosity towards teachers. They bring it on themselves (imo) or rather they (the Unions) bring on their members.
a little disappointed to see some bring up "yellow grass" to justify some things. All professions have yellow grass, whether its "extra curricular" activities or working overtime. Myself I haven't see a penny for OT in 20 years. Then again Im a "professional" and thats not the only "yellow grass" in my industry. Im sure almost all professions/jobs have yellow grass.
Dan O. While true there haven't been raises since around 2010 (not true for all)..Before 2010 Mcguinty lavished teachers with some hefty raises. Lets not forget that. On this next I could be mistaken, but I recall reading somewhere that Ontarios teachers are the or close to the highest paid and compensated teachers in NA...If true "whats the problem"?
When you consider what the mean duo income is (75k) and most of those without pensions and all of those work a full year (take the salary and annualize it $XX,XXX.00 for roughly 42 weeks =X/Week and then multiply by 52) Teachers have jack to complain about. Hundreds of thousands of tax payers have lost jobs, still looking. Or lost theirs and took something paying a lot less just to pay the bills (exploding bills)<<<Something the "jobless rate" doesn't talk about, and Ms Wynne doesn't like to talk about when she trots out numbers. In other words, yes for many teachers there haven't been raises....guess what. For most Ontarians thats true to, some took cut backs, many lost jobs, etc, etc....
Be glad, thankful your job is "recession" proof. Many Ontarians are still losing theirs
Class sizes?
maybe if overhead weren't so high, a few more teachers could be hired? Overhead can include many things. I know, what a radical idea.
What about EAs?
I would think they need a cup of coffee more than teacher and certainly way ahead of giving Unions kickbacks to the tune of millions.
There are reasons theres no money "for raises", for "EAs", for healthcare and more GPs so that the 800,000 tax payers without one can find one, there are reasons Johnny Q is taking tax hikes and exploding Hydro on the chin...and more.
That money is "ours", not the Unions...period, full stop, they shouldn't get a penny of it. Isn't that what Union Dues are for?
At the end of the day, remind us all who spends millions, maybe these millions going into Union pockets/war chest to campaign and get this admin elected? No one to blame but....
******
As for the struggling kids and the funds being diverted. Those comments bother me. Good know our education zcars think trying to help them is a waste as they are wasted youth.
800,000 Ontarians with GPs and so much more that might be said. No money for Drs, no money for EAs, tax payers getting pummelled,
But millions for Unions? Who have worked so hard, spending millions....campainging for this admin and against who ever they don't like.
Carry on with the rest.
So, let me get this straight here. Wynne was just exposed giving unions kickbacks to the tune of $$ millions of dollars? How exactly is this morally different than breaking electoral laws in Sudbury? Stealing $ Billions from needy taxpayers to win 5 seats and then being under police investigation for bringing in a non vetted non security cleared non employee of the Province clandestinly after hours to wipe hard drives and coverup the evidence? Anybody see a pattern here? Face it. Ontario is populated with self entitled imbeciles who will condone this morally bankrupt behaviour. This is perfectly acceptable to the voters. This is the new normal. Bury your money and become part of the cash only world. It's only going to get worse now that JT will be sending her more money to burn.
When the liberals waste $1 billion on a gas plant scandal and they are still voted in, what kind of message does that send to the party? "Looks like the voters don't mind it, so let's steal more."
Election is over live with it for 4 years or is this like the 2old guy's in front of TD Canada Trust??
PS I never voted for the twirp
To be blunt, most voters are dumb. Ill-infomred, concerned mostly about which govt is going to "give" them the most... The values of this country have been going down hill for 50+ years... Right around the time Pierre came onto the seen...Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
It's the reverse message of "ask not what my country can do for me..."
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Originally Posted by Splaker
At least once in every generation, a segment of voters remember that they can vote themselves somebody else's money. One (hopefully), maybe two terms until they remember why that doesn't work
RB your a good guy as is G (Fishermcann).
You know what happens if "we" do as you suggest? Sweep things under the rug, pretend it doesn't exist. not talk about it either because people are tired about hearing it/reading it (theres a reason theres soooooo many thread…because theres soooo much corruption and ineptitude).
That is the very definition of Apathy. Not caring and or voter burnout
Apathy is the devil and at the very least Im sure the very thing Ms Wynne would like to see and her bedfellows to boot. Why do you suppose they kept it secret for so long and until after the Fed election?
From an article on it.
Quote:
Being fortunate enough to live in a country like Canada, where we have the right to choose our political leaders, is a privilege. But since we have it so good here, voters often decide not to take part in our Municipal, Provincial, and Federal elections. Other reasons potential voters decide not to engage is the simple fact that they don't see change happening, they don't follow the news, and they just don't care.
How do you combat that?
By engaging people, especially younger generations (those 18-30) to become aware, engaged themselves, talk issues……..become informed….care.
Not caring as some imply we should do..is what leads to Apathy
Wow. That's an interesting distortion. We should all revel in lower wages as the CEO's and the owner of the company have the highest wages in history??? The gap between the working man and the CEO's wages has never been greater. Your logic will lead us to American style minimum wages. We'd all still be working Saturday mornings for minimum wage without the unions of the 1940's and 50's. Lower wages should bring lower cost goods EXCEPT the company doesn't pass the savings along.
J Ben . Never heard the term "yellow grass" before. I assume you're implying it's not nice to criticize other professionals.
I mention my career only because I think teachers are well paid and as such they should go above and beyond. Teachers do put in lots of overtime as they mark in the evening and coach as well. I think that's totally fair given the time off they get and the pay they receive. I realize I was well paid and I had an awesome job (retired now). I worked on farms and in the bush so I had a great benchmark to compare to as a teacher.
BTW. Mike Harris tried to change the summer holidays and the public wouldn't support the change. Teaching is odd in that it doesn't make much sense to make teachers sit in a school when there are no students present. Most teachers go into the school for a portion of the summer to get ready to teach ()as they should).
Not at all Dan :)
Don't really have any issues of fair criticisms....Even my own industry :)
What I mean and hopefully I articulate it well. We all know the expression "green grass" and what is always meant by that. What I mean by yellow grass is many of those intangible and very hard to quantify things we all face in our professions that we aren't compensated for or somehow cause us to enjoy our jobs less, be a little less productive. Do teachers often spend time at home marking or prepping weeknights or Sundays? Some I know do.....So do I. its yellow grass.
Example, please understand this is simply an "illustration" not meant to be definitive.
Teachers for example have to deal with brats, some truly unruly ones.
My profession? Or an arm of it? Often entails dealing with the public, some of whom can be well numerous things...and they are always right....even when they are wrong :)
We know, given how often these things come up (complaints about Teachers) teachers will point out some of the (can't think right word) "yellow grass" in their profession often as a means of justifying salaries or other.I personally don't think it should take away (often they are valid blades of yellow grass :) ).....But all professions have them.
Ill try to be frank and honest and short. Do I think teachers are over compensated? At the high ends yes, and the low ends no, arguably under. I truly do think believe many don't understand just how valuable those pensions are, both in a real sense (their real dollar values expressed as PV and FV) and in a soft sense. The peace of mind it gives you knowing that.....it makes it far easier to pay down your mtg a lot, a lot faster. You don't have to make a choice of putting spare money against debt or the future. You can go straight to paying down debt...when you think about rates and compound Interest thats a huge advantage....Any idea between that and summers "off" how years thats adds to your life span, where for many others stress shortens theirs?
what price is that worth?
What are the answers? One friend of mine who has been teaching for 20 years agrees. They are overpaid. But as she says what are we to do...Fire all the long term teacher hired right after Harris.....and then be left with an over weighting of young/inexperienced, green in life teachers?
For the most part I think teachers are well paid. (I think) When you annualize the salary whatever it may be. Its compares extremely well to the mean (better)...So for me in terms of salary Im not one of those. Its the pension that pushes things.
What to do?
Who the heck knows, not me. I wouldn't want to see hard cuts. I know what the profession is like and I know I couldn't do it. Then again, many teachers probably couldn't do mine.
What I do know and my "beef" is with the Unions. Im not one that would see Unions busted, still feel they are needed to some degree. But there is some serious change required there.
boy I think we're pretty much on the same page JB. I wonder what ever happened to benevolent owners that looked after their employees and thereby negated the need for a union. I'm sure there are owners that look after their employees even in today's world. One example that comes to mine is Chapman's ice cream in Markdale. I hear they paid their employees for almost a year while they rebuilt the plant after a fire. I used to live in Fergus and the Beatty Brothers apparently looked after their employees really well until GSW bought them out.
I think the scramble created by Free Trade has made employers value the cost of producing their product. There's no room for taking care of employees.
I am sure the insurance company had something to do with that after the Chapman's Ice Cream fire (employee wages).. Toyota and Honda take care of there employees as well and is non union.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanO