South Central ontario Grouse

Each weekend i spend one day hunting for upland birds (grouse and woodcock). I am able to find birds on each outing but only ever get shots at woodcock. The grouse jump from such a distance, I sometimes never see them or get a shot. Why are these grouse so skittish? I hear the grouse in the north are very easy to see and shoot but the birds in the south are smart, skittish and shy. I hunted an area on saturday that likely gets no hunting pressure and is not easily accessible by foot or atv and i saw quite a few birds but none presented a shot.
I hunt mainly north of barrie south of honey harbour.

A hunter once told me its near impossible to shoot a grouse south of Parry Sound, i want to know why?

thanks

Same species across the Province, but definitely different adaptations in terms of survival skills.

I do OK (in relative grouse hunting terms) at connecting on flying grouse up north (North Bay area). But locally (same general area you hunt) I have not connected on one this season or during the previous season. In fact, I rarely even get a shot off.

The support group meets the 3rd Thursday of each month at the church hall ;)

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Originally Posted by krawler

Each weekend i spend one day hunting for upland birds (grouse and woodcock). I am able to find birds on each outing but only ever get shots at woodcock. The grouse jump from such a distance, I sometimes never see them or get a shot. Why are these grouse so skittish? I hear the grouse in the north are very easy to see and shoot but the birds in the south are smart, skittish and shy. I hunted an area on saturday that likely gets no hunting pressure and is not easily accessible by foot or atv and i saw quite a few birds but none presented a shot.
I hunt mainly north of barrie south of honey harbour.

A hunter once told me its near impossible to shoot a grouse south of Parry Sound, i want to know why?

thanks

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Sounds like a 410/22 trail hunter.... Kind of like a hunter that only shot deer over baits from a tree stand and never shot a deer run by dogs.
Beside this past week, I killed most of my grouse flying and I'm South of Parry Sound. I believe it's all about practice. Been ready for the shot is the most important thing. A while back I got told in this forum that I should always have my safety on while hunting for upland, well I don't so as any hunter I hunted with, birds don't give you much time and making sure to shot in a safe direction takes most of it. Also, it's a good idea to have a #5 shots for the second shot to go thru leaves and branches.
Would be a lot easier with a pointer too....

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Originally Posted by seabast

Sounds like a 410/22 trail hunter.... Kind of like a hunter that only shot deer over baits from a tree stand and never shot a deer run by dogs.

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How many hunters can a poster alienate with one sentence?

Everything stated in the OP would indicate a he's wing-shooting. There's virtually no such thing as ground-swatting woodcock. I've hunted grouse from Haldimand in the south and to Kapuskasing in the north and can vouch for the fact that the OP would have an easier time with your Parry Sound grouse.

Krawler, welcome to the forum and keep at those birds. The good news is that you're finding them.

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Originally Posted by ninepointer

How many hunters can a poster alienate with one sentence?

Everything stated in the OP would indicate a he's wing-shooting. There's virtually no such thing as ground-swatting woodcock. I've hunted grouse from Haldimand in the south and to Kapuskasing in the north and can vouch for the fact that the OP would have an easier time with your Parry Sound grouse.

Krawler, welcome to the forum and keep at those birds. The good news is that you're finding them.

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?!?!?
This is what I was referring to:
"A hunter once told me its near impossible to shoot a grouse south of Parry Sound, i want to know why?"
And this is what came to my mind:
"Sounds like a 410/22 trail hunter.... Kind of like a hunter that only shot deer over baits from a tree stand and never shot a deer run by dogs"

It has nothing to do with the OP.

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Originally Posted by seabast

Also, it's a good idea to have a #5 shots for the second shot to go thru leaves and branches.

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I use 3 inch 1 5/8 oz #4s for this reason.

Worked on these guys 2 weeks ago:

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/...pspp33gazk.jpg

Saugeen Valley between Flesherton and Durham. 4 of them cleaned up real nice and one had some damage on the right breast.

Wow, 3" #4's !!

never would have thought of that for grouse but I guess it does make sense since they flush way out.

12ga?

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Originally Posted by Mount Sweetness

12ga?

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Yep. Trusty 1958 Belgian A5.

Are you taking about lead or steel shot here?
I'm someone who likes large lead shot, but I would never go with #4s for grouse if I had a choice.
Regarding the load: Well, I shoot 3.5" steel for geese, but never understood why people buy 3" lead other then for turkeys.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Yep. Trusty 1958 Belgian A5.

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the two Auto 5 I used to have were both chambered for 70mm (i.e. 2 3/4").
not a good idea to shoot 3" unless it has been properly modified

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

Are you taking about lead or steel shot here?
I'm someone who likes large lead shot, but I would never go with #4s for grouse if I had a choice.
Regarding the load: Well, I shoot 3.5" steel for geese, but never understood why people buy 3" lead other then for turkeys.

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Lead shot. Cannot shoot steel out of the Belgian A5s or you risk damaging the barrel. 3 inch #4s are overkill no doubt but it allows me to deal with any coyotes that cross my path and as stated earlier cuts through the early season foilage better.

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

the two Auto 5 I used to have were both chambered for 70mm (i.e. 2 3/4").
not a good idea to shoot 3" unless it has been properly modified

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I should have added "magnum" to the description. Designed, built and chambered for 3 inch shells. In fact unless I change the friction ring setup every time I want to shoot 2 3/4 it will not cycle them. If I leave the rings set for 2 3/4 it will cycle most 2 3/4 loads (but not light loads) and will also cycle 3 inch shells when set up this way. Problem is it kicks like a mule when firing 3 inch shells with rings set for 2 3/4 and you risk cracking the forestock if you fire 3 inch with the rings set that way.

The birds do behave differently and I hunt them differently.

I hunt in 3 general areas: North of North Bay. South of North Bay and Simcoe county. Part of it is just the pure quantity of birds/habitat out there. The more southernly the birds the more flushy they are (I won't say smarter since many of the birds around here flush when I never would have seen them anyway).

Up north, I walk clear trails/"roads" quickly, but somewhat quietly, it will put you in front of a lot of birds and give you lots of chances for shots. Down here I walk super slow and as quietly as possible and try to walk from one likely spot to another. As my confidence has increased from getting some birds this way down south, I do it sometimes up north and it is successful but because you do cover less ground a trail walker can still get about the same number of birds. Same way a guy on an atv can get a limit bunch of birds. Personal preference.

Up north I will sometimes follow a flush/miss depending on a number of factors but down here I will almost always follow a flush no matter what since I might only get a couple in a day.

The southern grouse feels like a different species and sometimes I think they should be lol. Them being hard to hunt is what makes it fun in my eyes. The anticipation of turning a corner and having a possible flush is what makes it fun. Stick to it and hunt with someone else to better your odds. Have your buddy walk on an angle and hopefully it puts a flush in your direction.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Lead shot. Cannot shoot steel out of the Belgian A5s or you risk damaging the barrel. 3 inch #4s are overkill no doubt but it allows me to deal with any coyotes that cross my path and as stated earlier cuts through the early season foilage better.



I should have added "magnum" to the description. Designed, built and chambered for 3 inch shells. In fact unless I change the friction ring setup every time I want to shoot 2 3/4 it will not cycle them. If I leave the rings set for 2 3/4 it will cycle most 2 3/4 loads (but not light loads) and will also cycle 3 inch shells when set up this way. Problem is it kicks like a mule when firing 3 inch shells with rings set for 2 3/4 and you risk cracking the forestock if you fire 3 inch with the rings set that way.

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well, that explains a few things.
under the above circumstances you are certainly correct to increase the load drastically in order to be still efficient on grouse: #7 (just as an example) has more than double the pellets per oz. than #4

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

well, that explains a few things.
under the above circumstances you are certainly correct to increase the load drastically in order to be still efficient on grouse: #7 (just as an example) has more than double the pellets per oz. than #4

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But #7 doesn't have the killing power in long range or thicker cover that #4 or 5 has on grouse.

Southern grouse have high coyote density to deal with. The few birds that are left come October-November are the ones that managed to evade the coyotes. They'll flush if you even fart at 100 yards. I usually head to Timmins/Gogama if I want to give my poor dog a chance to actually pick up a limit of birds.

Coyote populations don't explain why southern grouse flush out of secure roosts in trees. It's hunting pressure.

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Originally Posted by welsh

Coyote populations don't explain why southern grouse flush out of secure roosts in trees. It's hunting pressure.

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I got to agree with that. I think there are as many predator in the North than in the South just too many two legged ones in the South.....

Thanks for the responses. I think i need to slow down my approach in the forests and be a little more quiet.

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Originally Posted by krawler

Thanks for the responses. I think i need to slow down my approach in the forests and be a little more quiet.

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Not necessarily. They will hear you whether you move slowly or not, what they do next is anyone's guess. Usually, they flush wild (i.e. long before you approach), but sometimes they hunker down and wait or walk away quietly. It depends on the location, weather and planet alignment. If you hunt public places where people often walk the trails or pick up mushrooms, the grouse there might be used to people passing by. If there's a lot of hunting pressure, they will flush wild. Private spots might be different. It all depends :)
I once stopped to pee in the bush and halfway through a grouse flushed few feet in front of me, I almost did #2. I was hunting dogless then, obviously.
I would try to find less pressured places and look for food sources.

BTW, some here coined a special term - Evil Southern Grouse (ESG).

Not sure if it'd help but a few I shot last week were full of that. (Just smaller)
Attachment 31166

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Originally Posted by kickingfrog

Up north, I walk clear trails/"roads" quickly, but somewhat quietly, it will put you in front of a lot of birds and give you lots of chances for shots. Down here I walk super slow and as quietly as possible and try to walk from one likely spot to another. As my confidence has increased from getting some birds this way down south, I do it sometimes up north and it is successful but because you do cover less ground a trail walker can still get about the same number of birds. Same way a guy on an atv can get a limit bunch of birds. Personal preference.

Up north I will sometimes follow a flush/miss depending on a number of factors but down here I will almost always follow a flush no matter what since I might only get a couple in a day.

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i hunt in the Frontenac Twps. (SE Ont.) i think the above is pretty good advice, but i would add that if you walk too slowly you can end up wasting a lot of time without seeing birds.

i walk trails quickly (but quietly), pausing often. birds will flush after a few seconds sometimes, because they get nervous, whereas if you were walking fast, you would walk right by.

if i'm off-trail, the slow approach is better, but i try not to waste time in areas where i don't expect to see birds. in the areas i hunt, i rarely see birds in hardwoods. they are mostly in mixed forest, or around the perimeter of cedar/hemlock stands.

what i love most about grouse is having to think like a bird to anticipate where they might be feeding, which is usually not too far from their roost. i've gotten a lot better at picking out small poplar and birch stands where they eat catkins, or areas of clover.

similarly, i always try to think about where they're headed with every flush so that i can follow them. it's usually 40-60 yards away and under the cover of conifers or branches.

Finding this thread years late. But these southern grouse really are distant flushers. I have only ever flushed maybe a couple dozen but have almost never actually seen them in flight. If you ever ended up finding a trick OP let me know.

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Originally Posted by anglodrkns

Finding this thread years late. But these southern grouse really are distant flushers. I have only ever flushed maybe a couple dozen but have almost never actually seen them in flight. If you ever ended up finding a trick OP let me know.

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Find your self a couple of good setters, no guarantee but it helps
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...86126388_z.jpg

I am currently waiting for a litter to be conceived but have a Picardy Spaniel in my future. Hoping that will help

I see grouse in my southern Ontario bush lot frequently and they flush hard and fast. In heavy cover they are impossible to see but later in the reason you can spot them in flight.

The difference in behavior is due to predation. The threat in the south comes from the ground so the birds learn to flush more. In the north the greater threat is from hawks and the birds tend to stay on the ground more.

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Originally Posted by anglodrkns

I am currently waiting for a litter to be conceived but have a Picardy Spaniel in my future. Hoping that will help

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In the mean time I rent out my dogs they work for kibble and heck I'll throw in the handler for free :thumbup:

Im booked up for hunting time this year but might have to take you up on that next year