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After looking at 15 holes in the "No trespassing sign" ; I wonder if there really is any way to prevent trespassers ?
Not concerned about the damage to a sign.
But the fact the direction of travel would have put those 15 shots who knows where onto our land.
Luckily non of us were around when it happened.
I imagine nothing can be accomplished by calling the police considering there are no real facts to go by.
Anyone have any suggestions how to prevent this ?
Besides making sure the property is properly signed, check your property,regularly,take down license numbers of parked vehicles,watch where the trespassers go and turn them over to law enforcement every chance you get. Sooner or later,they'll get the message.
The best way is to have people on the land.
Most properties are trespassed on when there is not a presence on the land but my guess is that in your case it is people who used to hunt it back 30 years ago and now don't feel that you have any right to say no to them, I have heard this a number of times and it is total BS.
Good luck with your issues, calling the police and putting in a complaint is not a bad thing though, it develops a record of offences and reduces the risk of the people getting off if they do it again.
You can also arrest trespassers yourself. I have done that a few times when the police were not interested in taking complaints.
Proceed with caution and know your rights before doing this. Also, consider that the person(s) you will be confronting will likely have firearms. I'd suggest contacting the police and if possible get some pictures of the trespassers.Quote:
Originally Posted by arclight
Good luck.
You nailed it Fox;Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I bought the property 2 years ago. Guys use to push almost 1000 acres for 20 years. I bought 100 right in the middle of it where the lake is- a natural funnel to push around. A friend bought 200 acres last year. He spoke to them last year when they asked for permission; and he said NO. Tuesday at 2pm of the rifle hunt- guess who was on the camera. We were back eating lunch. Figure best to wait till this season is over and then explain again-
Just being around and throwing people off when you find them is probably about all you can really do.
Trespassing will happen. It's like asking how to stop people from shoplifting: some people are still going to do it. All you can really do is deter it and resign yourself to it.
Unless you're a trained and warranted Peace Officer with back-up when/if things go south,this is fraught with danger and civil liability if you screw up and violate someone's civil rights. Take pictures,make notes immediately after the incident and be a reliable witness. It's much safer.Quote:
Originally Posted by arclight
X2.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Short answer is no... you have steps you can take after the trespassing, but no you can't stop 100% of trespassers.
look at all the jail breakouts... you can't even make your property that protected, and even they have people busting out.
get pictures, videos, licence plates, etc.... that's your only move.
Don't say anything about "no trespassers". Instead, post signs about land mines being recently found or nuclear waste being 'apparently' discovered. Then ask politely that they stay away for their own safety. Sign it the Ministry of the Field General... See what happens.
First Post and unfortunately it is not a good one! Just Ran into 3 guys on our private land, Sitting in our stands during deer season, and the best part, NO ORANGE! when trying to talk to them they did not answer, and claimed no english. very concerned about the safety aspect of the situation
CALL THE Ministry of Natural Resources and Police!Quote:
First Post and unfortunately it is not a good one! Just Ran into 3 guys on our private land, Sitting in our stands during deer season, and the best part, NO ORANGE! when trying to talk to them they did not answer, and claimed no english. very concerned about the safety aspect of the situation
1. they are trespassing with firearms
2. they are breaking orange law
if the land is private, they need a written consent of the owner of the land to traverse or use the property, if they do not. then it is trespassing, if you do not report them they will return or do it to someone else.
if they do not wear orange, they do not follow or abide by the hunting regulations; by coincidence you might have met poachers.
I'd place a phone call to 911 about a crazy man pacing around with a gun on your property then give the address and hang up. That would get several police over there pretty dam quick and they'd be looking to nail someone with charges. Since you didn't do anything wrong they'd be taking it out their frustration on the trespasser which might make them think twice about doing it again.
They do not need written permission.Quote:
Originally Posted by poltrojan
Quote:
Originally Posted by x_xeon_x
That's garbage. Police resources are at a minimum and calls for service are prioritized. Such a call can put a lot of people's safety in jeopardy. Also, you could find yourself being investigated for public mischief.
I am dealing with somone who is setting up to shoot toward my property from a field into my woods where my stands are.I have spoke with the other landowner and he said basically I'm to work it out with him. I view it differently. The landowner is permitting someone to hunt unsafely on his property and is liable for damages on mine.
The Hunter and landowner will be receiving a registered letter from my lawyer on this issue how this is contrary to safe discharge of a a firearm and that given the safety issues and questionable hunting ethics if they shoot a deer which goes on my land they will not be able to recover it without a conservation officer as an escort.
We will seek charges and recovery of damages from both in court should another shot get fired.
people just don't get it, no deer is worth creating a safety issue over. You are responsible for the bullet from the time it's loaded in the gun until it comes to rest. Make sure it's on your own land.
Thanks for your replies guys, the situation is being dealt with appropriately...... Been dealing with these situations a lot lately
While some may argue that is what's needed, written permission is not required, save for a few WMU's in Ontario.Quote:
Originally Posted by poltrojan
That's what happened in The Jonathan Logan Case. Google it. That approach is a very special kind of stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by x_xeon_x
Wow, scary situation. First make sure for your safety and do not overly confront them - they are breaking the law so far who knows what else they will do. Next take pictures with your phone if you can of everything, them, their vehicle, etc. Then call the MNR and police and let them handle it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivieri11
Good luck friend and be careful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahuntr300
Thanks!
yeah the last thing I want is to get to close to these guys, Its all being handled appropriately!!
One of our Deer decoys was shot 4 times by a trespasser last Sunday just before sundown. And by the size of the holes it was a 30-06, we are in a shotgun only wmu.
The arshole ran away and was never caught. Still investigating.
If you do arrest someone for trespassing, call the police and explain the situation to them. They will come out fast. As other posters have said, do not attempt it unless you know what you are doing. Reasonable people will leave once you explain that they will he placed under arrest for trespassing. If they resist then the punishment goes from a simple provincial offences ticket to criminal charges, like resisting arrest, and assault to resist arrest. I have arrested several trespassers hunting on my property in the past. I will only arrest them after that have been given every opportunity to leave. Any idiot who points a weapon at you will be in for a very rough day after the cops get a hold of him.
Sorry, but I just gotta ask. Why would you have a decoy out during firearms season?Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Wheelerdude
Well, another damaged fence on our farm this year from a trespasser(s) during the controlled hunt. Every year
The BEST way to guard your land, if you can't be there yourself, is to ask your neighbor to do it....Works much better than trying to keep him out....
If you do so you must say "I am placing you under arrest under the trespass ontario act" you must then turn them over to a peace officer. You cannot let them go.Quote:
Originally Posted by arclight
Wow, respectfully, what you guys are preaching here can escalate in a bad situation real fast when there are weapons available. My advice let the police do their job - don't try to do this yourself unless you are a policeman.Quote:
Originally Posted by XshaneX
Seems pretty hard to overcome the sense of entitlement.
They are 15 guys that hunt both weeks.
They actually stand with their backs against the property line and have the doggers push towards the guys on the line.
My greatest fear is in the heat of the moment; they will just keep shooting at the deer as it runs onto my land. That's when it gets scary and deadly.
We are all in tower stands to hopefully keep things safer.
We denied them permission to access our land; but cameras don't lie.
Guess we need to hide the cameras and target for face shots.
I will put a call into the local OPP and start the record keeping of complaints.
How much property do they have for the 15 guys? Our camp was 5000 acres for 12-20 shooters....
That's disgusting. I hope those guys don't mind when others do to them as they're doing to you. How can they even enjoy hunting when they act like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Horridfiber101
I think I'm going to continue going waaaay north to crown land and hunt. Couple of weeks ago we were near Timmins. Found quite a few hunters but fortunately no idiots.
Up here, by Kinmount and Burnt River, occasionally we use what's called "circumstantial punishment" if someone is ignorant enough to disobey posted land, drive over seeded fields, etc. One of the better ones I remember is the farmer who caught the same group of dinks for the third time. The idiots had drove into a field laneway, and had rutted the laneway, and left their truck blocking his access to his own land. A 170hp Case tractor can do some pretty cool things. Like it can easily pick up the front end of a Silverado Crew cab truck with it's loader forks, then it can drag the truck 3/4km back to the concession road (with rear diff locked in park). The trespassers found what was left of their truck, out in the middle of the concession road. Scratched all to crap, dented, missing the front bumper moulding, and all the undercarriage trashed. I'm not sure if it went to court. I would have pissed myself to see the looks on their face when they saw the truck missing, and saw the evidence that a large machine had dragged it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenelon
Worth the price of admission for sure.
Was talking to one of the farmers that allow me to hunt there land this evening...he actually went out of his way to come out to see me as I was getting back to my truck...wanted to know if I had lost some items along the edge of one of his fields...about 4-5 hundred in optics...nope not mine ...lol... some unlucky trespasser has lost a decent pair of binoculars and a very nice bushnall range finder...hope I catch him trying to find them...lol
One parcel they blast is 400 acres;Quote:
Originally Posted by patvetzal
A second area is 300 acres of crown, another 310 acres of private they push trespass; and then there is our 400 acres that they use to push.
Problem is the 400 acre parcel, of which we own 100 has a great lake area, and the other 300 acres that a friend owns is a giant cedar bush/swamp bedding area.
Not recommended, especially when weapons are involved. Presence, attention, observation. Report your findings to police. Also, rent your land-if someone pays for access you can be sure they will want to keep all others off themselves.
I was sent to an occurence where irate hunters had returned to their vehicle to find the roof sorta flattened down with a large log settled nicely into the caved in part. It turned out they were hunting illegally on private property. With no witnesses,it was impossible to know how this happened for sure and we all know that without witnesses,one can't just go around and make accusations,right? They got the message and a big,fat towing bill. I later asked the property owner if he knew how it happened and he said "Nope!No idea" with a big goofy grin on his face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenelon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakota Harrison
Good suggestion; but I want to use my own land.
And not have anyone else use while I am not there guarding it.
Something is a miss when other folks feel entitled to use your stuff.
That's how unrest starts.
I had a friend who owned a game farm and had a lot of trespassers, he dug ditches all around the property to prevent vehicles getting in.
Even with a conservation officer you don't have to let him access your property to retrieve downed game. You could go and claim it yourself. Just get a permit to possess from the MNR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
Boneheads started to walk onto the property at 530 this am.
Could see the flashlights coming through the woods at a distance.
Rather than confront someone in the middle of the dark with firearms-...
Going to take the game cams to the OPP and see what course of action they suggest.
unbelieveable ....
Please understand that I'm not being critical,but,why didn't you call the OPP right away when you saw them? They were going in 1HR before legal time. The Police would have had them,cold,for "trespassing to hunt" and anything else they could whack them with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horridfiber101
Agreed....unless you can clearly identify and know the person by a trail cam pic there is not much that can be done after the fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I would call the CO for your area and speak to him about it as well.
I would approach them as soon as you see them. Just use a good light so they see you coming. I wouldn't be overly worried about getting in a "shoot out".
The Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act needs to be changed to make written permission a requirement.
I would agree but only on posted properties.Quote:
Originally Posted by brent
I personally have no farmers that would entertain signing letters, especially as another government requirement to use their own land.
Horridfiber101, I would take Trimmer21's advice and make the call every time you catch them and advise the trespasser that you called the police and that they're on their way. You can do that from a distance.
Good Luck
Won't change a thing. People who trespass to hunt will continue to do so regardless of whether written permission is required.Quote:
Originally Posted by brent
The only thing requiring written permission could help overcome would be if people were getting off by claiming they had verbal permission, which to my knowledge is not a problem.
Downside of written permission? Kick me off your land, and you'll need to send a registered letter revoking permission to make any charge stick. What? The landowner says he kicked me off and told me not to come back? Not how I remember it. And I've got a written permission right here.
Be careful what you wish for.
It would make for much easier enforcement by LEO's. Right now unless there is a complaint, private property permission is never really enquired about or followed up. If a CO checks a guy on private property and the guy says he has permission, that's the end of story. CO doesn't follow it up from there, unless there was a complaint in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Have the letter dated for a specific time frame.
I do wish for it....
If the property isn't posted then you can likely expect trespassing issues......Especially in southwestern Ontario it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
Great question.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I am three hours away from the property- That was the account from a neighbor.
He took the cams to the OPP and they said- exactly what you thought- Call as soon as you see them.
This was definitely a missed chance.
Absentee landowner is a tough go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horridfiber101
I think for the most part, after being confronted a few times, most guys get the hint and stop. But being 3 hours away makes it pretty much impossible.
I may have missed it, but where is your land?
So essentially you're talking about enforcement in the absence of a complaint, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by brent
This would mean that any person hunting on his own private property would be presumed to be trespassing unless he could prove he was the owner of said property. It would mean he would have to give his brother-in-law & his buddy written permission to hunt his land.
I can't see the average rural landowner liking this proposal much. The effect would likely be a whole bunch of properties closed to hunting because landowners don't want to face the hassle. A lot of guys would let you on with a handshake but they'll balk if you want them to sign something. The second you say, sign here, they'll start thinking of liability and whether there's something they don't know waiting to trip them up if they sign that paper. As well they should.
I see your points but I guess there are 2 sides to every coin.
I believe Manitoulin Island requires written permission. It would be interesting to hear how things are there if my belief is correct.
I think it might make sense to require written permission in specific WMUs where there is a particular problem. It would certainly give the CO a way of dealing with it.
Ummmmmmmmmmm can you send me some pics....they might be mine....just kidding...sounds like you go ta good haul...one property I had permission to hunt had 2 ladder stands on it...one I told the land owner he jumped into his truck and told me to take him to them...he pulled them both down and through them in the back of his truck...when we got back to the house he said drop in the following weekend and if no one claimed them they were mine! Used them both before I sold them....Quote:
Originally Posted by WHTLHNTR
If you live three hours away and don't even want your neighbor on your land then I don't see any solution.....the whole township will probably be hunting there..
There is one possible solution. Attend your property with an arm load of No Trespassing signs and make sure you post all gates,fenceline gaps and perimeter fencing every 100',so,there's absolutely no doubt where your property lines are and don't miss any. Then,give your neighbor permission to hunt the property,exclusively. In exchange,appoint him as your agent. That way,he has a vested interest in due dilligence. Short of that,if you can't watch your property yourself,you don't have a hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by patvetzal
I experienced numerous trespassers several years ago when I purchased my property. I posted the perimeter and added photo surveillance warning signs that included trail cams. I also made access difficult particularly for ATVs with gates and brush fences. Initially trespassers broke the fences and gates but I continued to repair them making them more secure each time. Eventually most of the trespassers gave up breaking the gate and this year I saw no one on the cameras. Frequent presence on the land also helps. I wouldn't recommend retaliation.
Persistence should create results. However you will never eliminate trespassing entirely.