Who should get the deer???

Okay, we had a hunter ( Michigan) sitting on stand at 11:00 am this morning. A nice buck walked in on him. He took a shot and the deer ran off, but not far. After getting things together he decided to track it. Just as he was started on the blood trail he hears a shot 20 yards ahead of him.

Hunter from Michigan yells " Your shooting at me"!! Guy who just shot yells back, "Okay". Michigan hunter walks up to deer and a Vermont hunter was standing over the deer Michigan hunter was tracking. So far only 30 yards from tree stand it was originally shot from.

Vermont hunter was getting ready to tag Michigan hunters deer. It just so happens that at around 11:30Am me and other guide was driving by and a Vermont hunter was on the road saying he just heard am shot.


I was called by the Michigan hunter who said someone shot his deer that he was tracking. There was a potential problem about to happen. I phoned the Conservation Officer and proceeded to the site. Talked to both hunters and called the CO back at the kill site.

Who do you think tagged the deer and why???

Don't really care who tagged it. If I was paying for guide service I'd sure be pithed off getting set up that close to other hunters?

How dense was the bush that neither hunter saw each other if they wearing blaze orange? How many bullet holes were in the Deer? Usually,the initial shooter gets to tag the Deer,but,if I was a CO,somebody better explain to me,real quick,why they discharged firearms in such close proximity to each other while shooting at the same Deer. That's borderline dangerous use of a firearm and careless hunting.
If I was the CO or OPP officer,neither would get the Deer,both firearms would be siezed and summonses written. Their hunt would be OVER!

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

Don't really care who tagged it. If I was paying for guide service I'd sure be pithed off getting set up that close to other hunters?

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Nor do I. I am more concerned about the reckless discharge of a firearm. Charges should be laid. We already have a difficult time with convincing people how safe this pastime is without dummies like this. Meat is secondary to safety.

I also want to know why a person in hunter orange can't be seen 20 yards by another hunter. Something doesn't smell right here.

How could the first hunter really now that second hunter was shooting towards him & not from another direction? Did the deer have two bullet holes? Hope the CO took care of it! Your question is a grey area on ethics. The deer could have had fatal wounds but still walking standing when it was shot? When the animal doesn't drop in front of you. Seen & had this happen to my group about 15 yrs ago. Having hunts where guys do a drive & deer get shot by posters but run into neighbouring properties where they get shot at & or claimed.

give the deer to charity for food, it will teach both sides a lesson

everyone is batshizat crazy to hunt within that range of each other initially. the deer isn't the most important part of this post. the most important part is, research where you hunt! if no one is poaching, this shouldn't happen if you're doing it right.

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

Don't really care who tagged it. If I was paying for guide service I'd sure be pithed off getting set up that close to other hunters?

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The Vermont hunter just came in on Saturday. Our set been there for 5 weeks. Vermont chased the gun fire of Michigan hunter.

According to the Vermont hunter he was down the trail a bit and heard the shot. Came running and followed a deer trail towards our set up. Heard the deer trashing and went to the sound of deer. As Michigan hunter was about to reach deer Vermont shot.

There were 2 bullets that hit the deer. If Vermont guy wouldn't have shot the deer, Michigan was almost to it to finnish it off.;

If the deer was still alive and running when 2nd shooter hit it, I believe the 2nd shooter gets the deer. Its possible a deer not critically hit could run and be shot again a substancial distance away. This may be a case of "possesion is 9/10ths of the law" due to the 2nd shooter having shot and claimed the deer. That's my humble opinion.

Give it to the Vermont guy and tell him never to come back again. He is bad news.....

If they both hit the deer, either could legally tag it. If only one hit it, only that shooter could tag it, unless they were party hunting which obviously they weren't.

The deer is thrashing and he shoots it, sounds like it was ready to die or at least was wounded pretty good... Given the circumstances as you laid them out.... I would like to think it should go to the original shooter but the legal part of me thinks the CO gave it to the second shooter.....

he who shoots the deer (and it goes down) gets the deer. i was in the bush and another group tracked a deer to my setup. if it were alive coming into my bush, how am i to know if they missed?
i assume you see this more with duck hunters....

First I have hard time getting my head around 2 hunters less than 30 yds apart shooting. Seems beyond reasonable. Sounds to me the second guy saw a dieing deer and put a round in it to claim it. Quite common for fatally hit deer to cover ground before expiring. I say its the first shooters deer if it was a fatal hit. Where were the 2 bullet holes?

Why would the Vermont guy want a deer like that anyways? Only reason i can think is for bragging rights.

He didn't really hunt it, and it would be much cheaper to stay home and buy meat than travel like that to hunt for meat.

I am trying to wrap my head around the Vermont guy running towards gunfire knowing well that the Michigan guy is not aware of him ... that is just asking for an accident ... seems like a very aggressive hunter that wants to claim all ... I suspect the possibility the Vermont guy shot it on the ground in order to claim it, if nobody seen the shot, who would know, I could be wrong, but it must be considered.

I am curious ... what was finally done here?

Wow I hope I never run into this situation man alive. As far as I have understood, whoever actually kills the deer gets claim to it. This situation is sketchy though. To me that rule applies if a deer is shot and runs straight into the path of another hunter, not the hunter running toward the shot in hopes to finish it. There are so many things wrong with that act that I wouldn,t even know where to begin.Now if it were me and a shot was fired, I would be moving the opposite direction asap.If by some chance while moving away I came across a wounded deer struggling and on the ground i,d put a bullet in its head to end the suffering and wait for the original shooter to show up and explain to him I shot point blank to end the suffering, you were never in danger of being shot and the deer is yours to tag, I take no satisfaction in getting one by any such method.If the deer was still on its feet that is a different situation.I would not take a shot due to the fact that you know there are people close by. sadly the animal would have to remain wounded until the original shooter came along to finish it.Better to let the animal be a bit longer than to put another human being in danger.I for the life of me cant see anyone wanting a deer so bad they would stoop to that.

Sounds like a busy spot to hunt. Two guides driving by and two American hunters within 30 yards. If the deer was a "trophy" deer, I can see how there could be a disagreement. If not, the guide should find a spot to help his clients fil his tag.

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Originally Posted by Roper

If the deer was still alive and running when 2nd shooter hit it, I believe the 2nd shooter gets the deer. Its possible a deer not critically hit could run and be shot again a substancial distance away. This may be a case of "possesion is 9/10ths of the law" due to the 2nd shooter having shot and claimed the deer. That's my humble opinion.

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Deer was laying thrashing in one spot, not able to escape.

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Originally Posted by ysyg

Sounds like a busy spot to hunt. Two guides driving by and two American hunters within 30 yards. If the deer was a "trophy" deer, I can see how there could be a disagreement. If not, the guide should find a spot to help his clients fil his tag.

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Vermont was hunting on his own and was walking down a trail, no guide.

Conservation Officer listened to both sides as expected. He said "REALLY" and said Michigan tags it and left it at that.

Why the fight, was a big deer? Pics?

The vast majority of law enforcement is adult babysitting......

Below is the law as it applies to tagging animals. If I shoot at an animal and hit it and it runs off and another hunter kills it, legally it is his by my reading of the law. The grey area would be where I shoot an animal, it runs 30 yards and is in the final throws of death when someone happens along and else "kills" it.

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17. (1) The holder of a licence who has killed a moose, deer, elk, bear, wild turkey, wolf or coyote shall, (a) immediately after the kill and at the site of the kill attach the seal provided with or purchased for the licence or licence tag to the game wildlife in the manner indicated in the instructions that accompany the seal; and
(b) keep the seal attached to the game wildlife while it is being transported and, in the case of wild turkey, keep the seal attached to the wild turkey until it is prepared for consumption. O. Reg. 276/05, s. 1; O. Reg. 529/10, s. 2 (1); O. Reg. 48/11, s. 1.

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Attachment 31383This is the Vermont hunter in the picture. He's still pi$$ed. But......

That's a nice deer but how would have the story go when seen by friends mounted in his home?.....silly guy, what was he thinking, glad it went to the original shooter.

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Originally Posted by chris lavoie

Attachment 31383This is the Vermont hunter in the picture. He's still pi$$ed. But......

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Vermont hunter who was moving in on my guy most likely didn't tag it because he knew he was in the wrong. Michigan didn't want a fist fight so he called me.

Vermont guy can't take any satisfaction in the killing of that deer. He just ran over to finish it off. Michigan guy should get the deer since he actually hunted for it.

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Originally Posted by chris lavoie

Vermont hunter who was moving in on my guy most likely didn't tag it because he knew he was in the wrong. Michigan didn't want a fist fight so he called me.

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Sounds to me like you and your client did it right. The Vermont dude sounds like a bit of a scavenger. I'm glad it was resolved peacefully.

It was the Michigans first deer.

So would it be different if it was like this??????????????????

A gang is doing a drive, and a "nice racked" buck is hit by one of the blockers and it doesnt drop, but keeps running and another hunter from the same gang shoots and it drops dead..........................who gets the rack?

I was under the understanding that who ever put the kill shot into the deer, claims the deer.

Does it make a difference if you're arguing over a buck or a rack?????? What if it was a doe? Would this still be posted?? I think not.

Sounds like the above issue is a 2 sided story, that had got ugly and had to be decided by a CO.

2 hunters that were hunting 2 close that could have ended badly 4 both.....

Just be happy they get to hunt another day, and not be sitting in the hospital or worse......

That's my 2 pennies,,,,take it FWIW......YMMV

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Originally Posted by Toby10

That's my 2 pennies,,,,take it FWIW......YMMV

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What kind of lingo is that. You swahili or something.

The deer was dying as he walked up to it. The Vermont hunter never should have chased the gunshot and put himself or another in danger the way he did.

It was decided rationally and without arguing once the CO talked to him, Vermont, about hunter ethics.

I was raised first blood gets the animal.... Found and finished a couple and gave them to the hunter who shot them originally...20-30yrds is ridiculously dangerous ....Vermont guy a nut

Im actually amazed you were able to get a game warden to show up that fast.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Nor do I. I am more concerned about the reckless discharge of a firearm. Charges should be laid. We already have a difficult time with convincing people how safe this pastime is without dummies like this. Meat is secondary to safety.

I also want to know why a person in hunter orange can't be seen 20 yards by another hunter. Something doesn't smell right here.

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I have hunted in many situations where you could not see the other hunter 20 yards away, this was pretty normal when we were setting up drives, you just have to plan it and do it safely so everyone knows where the other guy is and shoots into a safe backstop.

We had numerous situations where 2 guys were shooting at the same deer at the same time from 2 different angles, when the bush is tight and the runs are close together then you sit close together.

Why does this same scenario get posted every year....whoever killed the deer tags it...end of story!

Oh man that is a crappy situation. It was Michigans first deer & now he will have this bad memory forever.

The Vermont guy is a clown for going toward a gun shot & should be banned from hunting...

Just another reason to archery hunt... LOL

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Originally Posted by Brampton Mike

Why does this same scenario get posted every year....whoever killed the deer tags it...end of story!

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Should be like that.

But if the 2nd shooter ran over and away from his spot to go and see if someone shot a deer to finish it off and steal the dear before the original guys waiting to track it. ?

The Vermont guy is just a pure dick plan and simple.

Here is a nice example of it mike.

You are in a public forest. Im at one end and you are at the other. You shoot a deer.
Wait 15 minutes to let it rest. But hey im going to run as fast as i can look for your wounded deer shhot it again cuz even if it is dead you are not there yet and i could say hey it was still alive and tag the deer. Your ok with that.

Maybe if the guy stayed on his watch after the shot. The other wounded the deer it may die or it may not . But the deer is still running away. 2 nd shooter takes a shot and then yes . Different action different out come.

Maybe the deer would not have died maybe it was a bad shot . Maybe the was hit good but still went a few km away who know yhats when its the 2nd shooter gets the kill. .

Not because i ran over and tried to steal your deer

'Murricians lol

I like the way the CO resolved it.

....but in the eyes of the law, the first guy to the dead deer owns it.
If Mr. Vermont would have slapped his tag on the deer, it would have been his.

The 'first blood' rule used in camps to decide who owns bragging rights for the deer has no basis in law.

Ask yourself this, who would want Mr. Vermont hunting in their group? Not me.

This should be nominated as the dumbest hunting thread of 2015....guys just look after your business...unless anyone on here was there who the hell knows...maybe I should have read it through but really wtf

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Originally Posted by Camp Red Maple

This should be nominated as the dumbest hunting thread of 2015....guys just look after your business...unless anyone on here was there who the hell knows...maybe I should have read it through but really wtf

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Umm...I think the OP was there for most of it except the actual shooting. Not sure how long it took after Chris got the call.

For a dumb thread it's doing ok I think.

Cheers

Attachment 31399Shot this doe today off the same site. Died on the spot. Brady, who is a guide, dragged it about 150 yards to the atv trail. When he got to the trail, there was Vermont guy 100 yards away, watching. He was still hunting the deer trail into the site.

It's crown land so he can hunt anywhere he wishes.

I was able to get a hold of the CO yesterday because I have his truck #.

Nothing against the OP apologies for any offence and dumb might be the wrong word but jeez it kinda puts me back a little here...talk about putting hunters in a bad light... it is just a bloody deer...

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

I like the way the CO resolved it.

....but in the eyes of the law, the first guy to the dead deer owns it.
If Mr. Vermont would have slapped his tag on the deer, it would have been his.

The 'first blood' rule used in camps to decide who owns bragging rights for the deer has no basis in law.

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If the first blood rule were law then I would have 2 less deer notches, one that I shot last year had been hit about an hour before, it was blood but a nick in the leg is not a kill shot.

You can never assume a deer is down until it is down and as you say whom ever puts the tag on it takes ownership of it.

We had numerous deer shot at by our gang then chanced over the ridges to the neighbouring gang, if we had hit it before them we would have never considered it our deer.

This mentality is why you see the television "stars" pound 150lb bucks with 300 mags and 150g bullets right in the shoulder. They want to crush the deer on the spot so it doesn't run 50 yds and get claimed by some loser. The fact that they ruin 50% of the meat doesn't seem to matter. Hunters will eventually slit their own throats. Sad.

I agree with the childish part of. CO said to Vermont that if he argues, both loose deer and both looses their tags. CO from Dryden was VERY professional in the way he handled the issue.