I live next to ganaraska forest and for the last two weeks I stand outside (half hour after sunset time by iphone time) and hear shots all the time.....come on guys its impossible to see...rules are rules for a reason
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I live next to ganaraska forest and for the last two weeks I stand outside (half hour after sunset time by iphone time) and hear shots all the time.....come on guys its impossible to see...rules are rules for a reason
Could be guys clearing muzzle loaders. Just sayin'.
Lol could be.
still illegal.....just saying
Call the cops..... get them charged
Tonight is was so clear I could have shot 20min past legal light, I was actually surprised that it was so bright out when my watch told me it was end of legal, no need for a head lamp at all.
I wonder how many people go by the "if I cannot see it is dark" theory.
Dad sets his phone alarm to go off at end of legal during each hunt, he figures if a deer is there the alarm will scare it and not necessarily consider it a person.
try before. when I went to the opener for ducks season in holland marsh. we arrived 45min before legal time. it was like a war zone. there was at least 12 shots going off. my dad and I we were like wtf.... we just left.
Today I was bow hunting in area 81 were it is still no gun hunting and it sure did not sound like target shooting
to spareratic.
There's still many hunters who don't realize that there's an official legal sunrise and sunset time and they can be charged if discharging or being caught with an uncased firearm. Scalder27 is absolutely correct about some areas of The Ganaraska Forest. I spend a fair bit of time there and when seasons are short,it happens all the time. Unfortunately,provincial offense charges can only be laid when someone is "found committing" and unless a CO or Police Constable is right there to write them up,it's another provincial offense that is almost impossible to enforce.
Waste of time there. Sound travels a long way at night. Hard to tell exactly where the shots came from to direct the cops. Then even if they did show up they'd have to figure out who it was that shot and then be able to prove it. Not a chance. Now if you bug the MNR enough they could park a CO out there for an evening or two I guess. But that would mean overtime pay lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
It's amazing what a good scope can do when you think it's too dark, even compared to a cheap scope. As for being illegal, it's highly unlikely to get caught, so some folk just don't care.
I've lived in the country now for 20 years. Bush and farm country. Shots at night any time of the year don't fizz me at all anymore. Duck season it's common to hear shots from the same direction every year 15 minutes after legal time. They must be pointing to the setting sun on that pond.
It's always happened and always will I figure. When I first moved here I would see trucks with spotlights driving by slowly. I'm pretty sure it still happens. Then there are the road hunters. They do still exist as I found out yesterday from someone who was there to witness the event. It involved a local guy known to do this apparently. Fortunately, a legal hunter shot the deer on private property literally seconds before the poacher was going to shoot from the road into the field. This guy actually beat the shooter to the deer, that's how bold he was. Add to that he wasn't even wearing blaze orange. Can you believe it lol? He had no permission on that property either. Duhhh. When confronted he finally backed off and left. This happened at ten in the morning. Goes to show you just never know. Crazy
Here's one to ponder folks. :) At 5:00 PM today you see a beauty buck tailing a doe and heading your way. You have 4 minutes left of legal shooting for the rifle season. Hopefully she'll lead that big boy across your shooting lane. Well she meanders around a bit and it could be close. So it's now big decision time. Do you put your watch away?? For how long? Or keep glancing at it and put your rifle away the moment it changes to 5:05 when you can still see that big guy coming and still see quite well? I think I know what the answer would be for just about everyone. Doesn't make us all "poachers", That label implies intent IMO, it can't be compared to jacklighters and road shooters for example. Legally, I understand they have to draw a line somewhere, and so be it.
I'll add another twist to the scenario hehe... Bow season. No shot to be heard so zero chance of being caught right? It's December with good snow down. Evening sit with a good moon coming up early. With a crossbow and any decent scope you could easily make an ethical shot with that white background. You've waited all year for this moment. All your hard work is about to come to fruition...
Just sayin.... Ethics, morals and legalities don't always mix the same for some folks. After 60 years that's one for sure thing I figured out lol.
Cheers
I see it all the time duck hunting. Shooting starts 20 minutes before legal and goes on long after legal. More than once when turkey hunting on public land I have run into guys with uncased guns hours before legal.
Smitty 55....thats exactly why we have rules and have problems because in your head your scenario makes it "OK" to shoot that BIG BUCK even though no one might not hear you or see you or know at all....but guess what morally you took a deer illegal and morally if that doesn't bother you maybe you shouldn't be a hunter....
How do we know it's not a farmer or an agent shooting racoons. Perfectly legally hunting after sunset.
It comes down with ethics. Any body that hunts my property abides by the rules or never get invited back. Essex county 94 B was a fantastic bow area until they changed the gun season to two days every year. The locals started hunting and they kept shooting every night all of November until they Destroyed the deer herds. Make you sick, all the guns shots every where, every night after last light.
It is frustrating to hear the shots long after legal. A few minutes I guess I can understand but man it's dark when some of these guys shoot. What I find frustrating is the shooters drive past less than 20 minutes after the shot was taken. How do you verify your hit after only 15 minutes of looking?
I know of people who empty their gun into a tree, rather than unloading it. Some guys just want to shoot it off ,even if they see no game. I also know some shoot it off when they get back to the truck. Some duck hunters I know do it every night.
They are not shooting they are poaching
Some nights duck hunting you cant see at the end of legal time, some nights you can see 20 minutes past,
who's the better hunter, guy shoots with 5 minute to go but cant hardly see shoots 2 outta a flock but looses them cause its so dark, guy shoots 5 minutes after legal but finds the 2 ducks cause he can see?
Funny people that say 1 minute past your a poacher, so are you a criminal cause you do 81km in a 80km, just you never got caught.
Just before anyone say I must shoot pass dark, I pack up with a half hour to go when duck hunting cause that's how you screw a marsh by shooting to late.
You should hear the after legal light dove hunters/shooters/jocks at one grca tract in particular....
If you drive over the limit you are doing a criminal activity , BUT , does that make you a criminal? Is there a difference between shooting in the dark, on your own property, at targets under some lights and shooting ,( hunting), at animals, I think so. Every shot is not hunting.
Many times when my clients walk out to the road, the CO's are waiting for them at their vehicles after hours. One time the CO was parked down the road and hiding in the bushes near his vehicle.
JUST NOT WORTH IT!!!
I knew the precise time to quit hunting every evening AT my location. I shot open sights and a reflex dot this year so when I wasn't able to sight properly, I called it quits. It was always a few minutes before the listed legal shooting time had ended.
Last year with a scoped rifle, I hunted until listed legal time, packed up and climbed down.
However, I don't like humping out of the woods to my ATV for 30 minutes with my rifle "encased." A ridiculous law.
A gun sock in your pocket fits the bill. you can put it on when you get to the road if you want ;)
Shooting before or after legal time? No. Uncasing and loading my rifle before legal. Yup! Haven't met or talked to many hunters who don't do the same thing, and I've been hunting for over 40 yrs.
Haven't seen a CO around here in years and very few if any of the OPP know the laws or the seasons. Last time I saw a CO was in 2004 or 2005.
But funny I haven't heard as many shots after sunset this year as I have in previous years, but then again the giant flocks haven't been seen this year as often.
I see an average of 4 different CO's a week here in Dryden district.
10 dollar gun sock. You can buy a few and give them to your clients and ask for them back. They are cheap and legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris lavoie
Actually, a better idea is to have your logo and name put on the $10 gun sock and give it to your clients. Write the cost off as advertising.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonura
Really??? You don't know me at all but you're pretty quick to assume things and attack with all these you and your. WTF!! I probably shouldn't waste my time on you but what the hell... Half of my post was just a scenario I threw out there to get folks thinking about human nature. I didn't really expect anyone to actually admit anything, but you sure were easy to hook, I guess the bow scenario helped. But have you not read all these other posts. I'm not sure what world you live in but it happens everywhere man, that's life, and there's no use whining about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by scalder27
I'll be nice about this and just suggest maybe you didn't quite get the drift of my post. Now for sure I had a few brews in me at that time of night, but I really tried to make sure I didn't word things wrong. So I went back today and really reviewed my post to make sure. Seemed fine to me, but you never know these days with some folks it seems so I reread it again. Just in case, I edited one two letter word. I still can't find anywhere where I said anything about my fantasy scenario being what I do, so I don't see how you took it that way so readily. But whatever. I really don't care
lol I can just see you at deer camp scalder, at the end of the day. "Hey guys, you wouldn't believe the beauty buck I just saw in the field, I had a good clear view, but it was two minutes past legal time so I didn't shoot." Aren't you proud of me? Well don't be surprised if you don't get any pats on the back or get invited back the next year. Just sayin...
Cya
The clients are told to bring their soft gun cases before they arrive. Many have them in their possession when they walk out to the truck. A few don't listen and pay the price. Last few years many have been checked by CO's and no citations issued.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonura
But yes, that's a good idea!!
Also, it has been mentioned by some locals, that OPP are looking for POL's and PAL's in the field. Some have been charged recently.
That's usually the very first thing they ask for down here,Chris,and everything better be in order,too. Without a license,the Police have no problem siezing a gun and hauling your a** to jail.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris lavoie
That was happening here some time ago by a lone OPP officer who thought the registry was a good thing? (shortly after it was enacted) He would randomly stop vehicles when he saw the occupants wearing their hunter orange and check the registry, etc. of their firearms. Didn't happen to me, but a couple of my neighbours here at camp were pulled over. I think he has either retired now or transferred out.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris lavoie
Everybody is a criminal under the letter of the law, whether it be shooting a duck that landed in your spread 1 millisecond after LST, or driving 1km/h over the limit, or jaywalking, ect. What if your watch is 5 minutes slow? What if you got your sunrise time for Toronto when you were actually going to be hunting in London? That's about 6 minutes difference there.
Most laws are created with safety in mind, and 30mins before/after sunrise/sunset is just another example. You should be able to use your discretion, but I understand that there are those that like to really push the envelope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
yah thats what I want is a pat on back for knowingly taking a deer after legal shooting time....(atleast its a big buck eh Smitty!) makes me more of a man!
Buddy and I were hunting some crown a few weeks ago and a OPP came cruising by ,he stopped and asked for hunting license and PAL. We explained that we were bowhunting and after seeing we had the proper tags and such he wished us good luck and was on his way. He was a big friendly guy and seeing how thin the MNR is stretched I didn't mind seeing him checking up on hunters.
Charges can only be laid if "found committing" ???? Come on Trimmer, you know better than that !Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I usually get checked by the OPP in my hunting area. Just a quick courtesy call and license check. After the formalities are over most want to check out what military surplus rifle I am packing. Many of the cops I have met hunt and target shoot. One year I had a cop help me drag a deer to my vehicle. I have yet to have a negative encounter with the police.
I have seen guys do this too. It is not illegal to target shoot at night.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
There is no offence of "failing to surrender a firearms licence ". BUT, you may have your gun seized. You have 14 days to produce your licence to the police, after which your gun must be returned. Just to clarify !!Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
But it is an offence to have an unencased firearm in an area where game is found, 1/2 hr before or after sunset. You may have some 'splainin to do !!Quote:
Originally Posted by arclight
It all comes down to articulation. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
When my watch says legal shooting time is over, then it is over. Alternatively, I have also put the gun away 5 mins before legal time was up because I couldn't identify what I was shooting at and/or what was behind anything I would be shooting at. Just because we can see a target in the waning light doesn't mean it is a safe shot to take.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
We all need to follow the laws and regulations when it comes to hunting. If that means you pass on a beautiful buck two minutes past legal time then that buck gets a pass at that time. I have been bowhunting in winter with a full moon and everyone in the world wouldn't know I shot a deer past legal time except for me. At the end of the day, I am the one who makes the decision whether to go from legal hunter to poacher.
If I am not invited back to hunt with a group because I won't poach a deer, I am fine with it. I have lots of opportunity to hunt deer or ducks without guys like that. Once people decide a law is not worth following, they begin to break it with more and more ease. Thirty seconds after legal time becomes a minute becomes two minutes becomes 10 minutes becomes 20 minutes until they have zero regard to anything pertaining to that law. What is worse, that kind of behavior is contagious. People who do it teach their kids and people who they have influence over that the behavior is acceptable and rather than one person doing it, now there is a group doing it.
Dyth
As long as there is a witness that provides a statement, a charge can be laid without the CO witnessingQuote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I agree,but,how many times does a Police Constable or CO talk to a witness who is willing to attend court? Giving information to law enforcement is one thing,but,when it comes to the "brass tacks" of taking time off work or arranging babysitters for the kids numerous times to attend court,getting those informants to witness status is like pissing into the wind. That's why most experienced personnel will take the information,take a quick look knowing full well that violators will be long gone. They simply make a mental note and file it for future referrence.Quote:
Originally Posted by brent
Same here, to be honest I can't see much even at 15 minutes to legal time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
On my last day last year with bow in hand and deer staring up at me I didn't close the tag cause it was black where I was and the sights on my bow were too dim. I was also solo. I didn't feel like wounding and tracking all by myself in the dark. Also a neighbors property for which I wasn't authorized was close by if the arrow was ineffective. I stayed in the stand and watched the deer for a long time after legal cause I didn't want to spook them from the stand. I finally flashed the lights on my truck that was 50 yards away that they passed by to spook them. They left not noticing me. It felt like an eternity up there and my case was down below.
Just on a quick point guys, I printed the Sunrise Sunset times off a site for Bancroft for 2015.
When I got to the cabin I already had the MNR Sunrise Sunset times from their office for the same location.
Guess what? There were differences between both charts by a few minutes each way.Not a big deal but something to be aware of.
I consider these hypothetical scenarios hilarious . --- My pooch is probably more trust-worthy than most people . --- In general , people are opportunistic ; the more HOLY they try to appear the less I believe them . Those "holier than thou" characters most likely hide some "skeletons in the cupboard" as well . --- I am a law-abiding citizen but I am HUMAN as well . --- A line has to be drawn some-where , but , --- 1 or 2 minutes after LEGAL time ? --- Your "time-piece" could be off by that much . --- I'd like to observe a CO or other type of "law-man" when they are hunting (or fishing) on their own time . --- During 78 years (on this planet , ---lol) I've learned a thing or two about human nature . --- Some of us get away with speeding to Tim Horton (etc.) because they wouldn't be tagged .
Thank you Gunner. At least someone someone got the point I was trying to get across without jumping to the wrong conclusions. It's human nature, I don't wear rose colored glasses like some. And like Gilroy mentioned, even sunset and sunrise times aren't always the same from different sources. Personally, I don't consider folks like that poachers, as opposed to jacklighters, roadhunters or guys that deliberately shoot animals they have no tags for.
Cheers
I know that's the case in my muzzle loader only area. At last light you hear guns popping all around you, and it isn't because everyone suddenly saw a deer in the twilight.Quote:
Originally Posted by jim