30 yrs, then and now

In the past thirty years I have been bow hunting I have seen the following happen.

Permission to hunt;

30 yrs ago I could ask a farmer to bow hunt his land, he would laugh and say 'bow hunt?? hahaha, sure, do what you want' and walk away laughing.

Now, I ask permission to hunt the new land owner has moved from the city and is either an anti hunter, or already has a number of hunters on the property.

Public land;

30 yrs ago finding a spot for yourself was not difficult, just walk into some huntable land off any path for a few hundred metres and you would most likely not see any other hunters, blinds that were found were typically set up in more open areas for gun hunting with little evidence of anyone setting up in tight spots for bow hunting

Now I can go as deep as I want in the same forest and I will find human foot prints, cut limbs, game cams, and stands chained to trees.

Tree stands;

30 yrs ago we just started to use commercial climbers, they were made of steel and weighed 50lbs. You had to assemble the arms with wing nuts in the field and disassemble at the end of the day. Setting up or taking down was quite often in the dark and loosing wing nuts was a common occurrence. Safety harnesses were difficult to tell the top from the bottom and quite often took a few tries to get them on right.

Now, aluminum climbers weigh half of the steel versions, have cables instead of steel arms, and set up can be done in a few minutes. The safety harness/vest goes on like a jacket in seconds.

Clothing;

30 years ago we used surplus cotton military green with wool layering, we got wet and cold when it rained, and Bill Jordan's trend setting tree bark camo was a few years away from being readily available.

Now, we have any camo you want for any season, we have Gore-Tex, and synthetic down, we still get cold but that's our fault now.

Hunting height;

30 yrs ago we laughed at the home made tree stands set at 6 feet high as we would hunt from an impressive 12 feet.

Now, ladder stands come in 20 feet heights and hunters using climbers go higher than that.

QDMA;

30 yrs ago we hunted for meat, passing on a deer that could be legally taken was not even discussed. No consideration was given to land or herd management and a food plot was something your granny had for tomatoes in the back yard. Information on deer behaviour was limited to a few books based on biased personal observations in a specific location.

Now hunters routinely plant for deer habitat improvement and pass on certain animals to promote herd health with all the info found on the internet in a few seconds.

All those changes but at the end of the day, we still eat plenty of venison and is still taste the same.....

On the equipment side; I would have to credit Bass Pro and Cabela's who did a great job since the 70's flooding the retail market with stores and of course the proliferation of 'Hunting' shows on Sat morn that convinced us we need a lot of crap to hunt.

I think we peeked...the way the numbers are declining, we'll see less and less hunters in the woods in the future, back to the good old days :)

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Originally Posted by MikePal

On the equipment side; I would have to credit Bass Pro and Cabela's who did a great job since the 70's flooding the retail market with stores and of course the proliferation of 'Hunting' shows on Sat morn that convinced us we need a lot of crap to hunt.

I think we peeked...the way the numbers are declining, we'll see less and less hunters in the woods in the future, back to the good old days :)

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Deer hunters in particular - as deer numbers drop back to "normal" levels, hunters are quitting because "there are no deer".

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Deer hunters in particular - as deer numbers drop back to "normal" levels, hunters are quitting because "there are no deer".

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:) more opportunities for me then :)

We should also recognize...that in 30 yrs....the deer as prey, haven't change one iota...

I didn't hunt 30 years ago, but I can say that some of the public land that I hunt now and hunted 25 years ago has much fewer hunters now. 25 years ago the hunting was pretty dangerous due to the number of hunters there - lately, it's a lot safer. I was out at one of these spots on Sunday afternoon to take down one of my treestands, and I ran into two young guys that were hunting separately. One of them was a young guy who just started bow hunting (and hunting all together). He had some pretty old-school equipment - reminded me of myself 15 years ago. All of this is to say that things change, sometimes for the worse and sometimes for the better.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

We should also recognize...that in 30 yrs....the deer as prey, haven't change one iota...

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I disagree - Deer are much smarter now. All this advanced equipment we use and the success rate is pretty much the same - that can only be due to their adaptations :tongue:

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Originally Posted by rf2

Deer are much smarter now.

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Well you'll have to explain that..'smarter' how? ...they still come to a pile of apples in the middle of the bush..they don't seem to be passing it on that's it a trap :)

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Originally Posted by rf2

All this advanced equipment we use and the success rate is pretty much the same - that can only be due to their adaptations :tongue:

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Or all this 'advanced' equipment does little to increase our odds....

In the days of old, a man sitting against the tree in his Sudbury Dinner jacket with the wind in his face was shooting as many deer then as they do now sitting up 20' in expensive trees stands wearing top of the line Mossy Oak clothing.

http://gallery.binoharness.com/galle...s/image002.jpg

I disagree - Deer are much smarter now. All this advanced equipment we use and the success rate is pretty much the same - that can only be due to their adaptations :tongue:[/QUOTE]

Before everyone could be a hunter. Now they know we dress in camo and orange.

I can't believe that the deer are smarter now then 25 years ago.
14 bucks open day gun season 2012

Haha . Lol. The game hasn't changed one bit from 50 years ago. Only the people have changed, deer are still deer, populations fluctuate and we adapt just like we did 50 years ago.

I think that people are actually becoming worse "hunters" and the advanced equipment, attractants, camouflage, scent removers, ect are just trying to make up for the enormous amount of skill loss that's happened over the past 30 years. People nowadays simply rely on too many other things than their own knowledge of their prey and the land to bring them success on their hunt.

Look at (and hear) the barrage of Waterfowlers over the past few years thanks to Duck Dynasty Phenomenon. Not a clue what they're doing, but they've got all the right equipment and their highball comeback calls sound absolutely fantastic coming from their new Zink call, wearing their Sitka waterfowl colours, shooting flats of BlackCloud out of their Benelli SBEII over their 8 mojos and 10dz Avian X decoys. Or look at the old timer in his canoe with the same gear he's used for the past 50 years paddling back with his limit.

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Originally Posted by x_xeon_x

I think that people are actually becoming worse "hunters" and the advanced equipment, attractants, camouflage, scent removers, ect are just trying to make up for the enormous amount of skill loss that's happened over the past 30 years. People nowadays simply rely on too many other things than their own knowledge of their prey and the land to bring them success on their hunt.

Look at (and hear) the barrage of Waterfowlers over the past few years thanks to Duck Dynasty Phenomenon. Not a clue what they're doing, but they've got all the right equipment and their highball comeback calls sound absolutely fantastic coming from their new Zink call, wearing their Sitka waterfowl colours, shooting flats of BlackCloud out of their Benelli SBEII over their 8 mojos and 10dz Avian X decoys. Or look at the old timer in his canoe with the same gear he's used for the past 50 years paddling back with his limit.

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That is bang on! I agree 100% with what you said. A lot of new hunters feel they need the latest and greatest gadgets, and having these they will sometimes forget about the basics because the promoters of these new things always get bag limits or big racks just using their gismos. Getting close to your prey is a skill, yes you can get lucky and come out smelling like a rose but if you study your prey and actually learn their habits it don't matter what camo you wear or type of call you have your odds of success will increase. Deer are still the same animal they were 30-40 yrs ago. Few things on their mind, eat, breed, survive. They don't plan holidays or trips or work. They adapt to change in their habitat not by choice but for survival.
I am fortunate I get to watch deer out my back door and can sit in my stand and see deer almost every time I am out. I enjoy just watching them and seeing how they travel around thru the trails and seeing how and what grabs their attention. What startles them and how they react to sounds and smells. Just watching them allows you to understand them more and helps make you a better hunter

Will ,determination and luck ...but most of all the passion not the stuff they sell on the shelves !!..

I don't think it's so much a case of compensating for lack of skill as it is a sucker being born every minute. And it has always been thus ... there has always been new gear that you must have to bag more game, and never more game being bagged. What's different today is the amount of money we have to throw at new gear, and of course there's a whole industry ready to take advantage of that.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Deer hunters in particular - as deer numbers drop back to "normal" levels, hunters are quitting because "there are no deer".

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Back in the seventies the deer in 7b and 8 were so over hunted along with high wolf levels that the season in wmu #8 was closed from 79' to 88'. The deer population in #8 is way down now but not in dire straights.

35 years ago we had compound bows, "Martin Cougar Magnum", XX75 aluminum shafts, insulated camo clothes, home made tree stands, and cars you could fit 3 or 4 deer in the trunk.
But the rush is still the same!
And yes it's tagged, in the nose

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...psndg0hozu.jpg

The biggest change to hunting has been the internet. What took years and years to learn is now at everyone's finger tips. I welcome trees stands, cameras, range finders, better archery products, ammunition ect ect. Like golf, skiing, camping it makes for a different experience but ultimately every area we hunt is different and for the most part in WMU 60 it's not easy to get a deer consistently if you don't live there regardless of when or how you do it. Luck has not changed. My best and most important piece of hunting equipment has always been between my ears. Stay positive and keep dreaming in that deer while your on watch and by gully (not my words lol) you will be amazed what will show up...almost like a ghost. That part will never change and that's why we hunters are so obsessed.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well you'll have to explain that..'smarter' how? ...they still come to a pile of apples in the middle of the bush..they don't seem to be passing it on that's it a trap :)



Or all this 'advanced' equipment does little to increase our odds....

In the days of old, a man sitting against the tree in his Sudbury Dinner jacket with the wind in his face was shooting as many deer then as they do now sitting up 20' in expensive trees stands wearing top of the line Mossy Oak clothing.

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Originally Posted by JUDGE

I can't believe that the deer are smarter now then 25 years ago.
14 bucks open day gun season 2012

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I guess you guys didn't get the sarcasm!

Of course they are not smarter than they were 30 years ago. If you read some of the posts on this site though, you would think that some people actually believe that they are.

Of all the new, advanced equipment that is available, the only things I've really adopted are an electronic rangefinder (to reduce wounding deer when archery hunting), a gps (along with a compass, for my own safety) and waterproof clothing with the currently available camo patterns. Most of my other equipment would have been around in more or less the same configuration 30 years ago. I would say that my stuff is less advanced than the average hunter, and definitely less advanced than the average hunter my age. I'd say my success rate is slightly above average considering I usually hunt alone. So in my opinion, most of the latest techno-gadgets are unnecessary.

the only thing that i think has changed in my neck of the woods is population and huntable land.

I'm not sure if deer got smarter, but have adapted to population around the city limits. it's hard to go to the "deep woods" in southern ontario, but when i started all this, a guy at the bowshop told me that if "a smelly Mennonite teenager who's wearing blue jeans and plaid climbs a treestand and shoots a deer on opening day, so can you".
that year i got out with no clue what i was doing and had 3 perfect opportunities in about 6 hunts.

add in a few years, more toys and you've got the same idiot in the woods counting on dumb luck to bag a deer.

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Originally Posted by rf2

I guess you guys didn't get the sarcasm!

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I was going to PM you earlier Rob and apologize, I didn't catch the sarcasm till this morning when I was re-reading the post, I missed the emoticon. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I was going to PM you earlier Rob and apologize, I didn't catch the sarcasm till this morning when I was re-reading the post, I missed the emoticon. Sorry.

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No need. Sarcasm doesn't work too well in online forums.

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Originally Posted by be2man

35 years ago we had compound bows, "Martin Cougar Magnum", XX75 aluminum shafts, insulated camo clothes, home made tree stands, and cars you could fit 3 or 4 deer in the trunk.
But the rush is still the same!
And yes it's tagged, in the nose

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That's an awesome picture by the way.

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Originally Posted by Longears

Will ,determination and luck ...but most of all the passion not the stuff they sell on the shelves !!..

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Age! Don't forget age.

I don't know that people have "more money" now, as much as more credit and more flexibility. I am always seeing people selling guns that they have owned for a few shots, but now the moose season is over so they need a deer gun. Two weeks later that gun is being traded for a xbow. We bought or were given the first gun we had cash for and eventually bought a second better one. Twenty years later when the family was moving out we might trade up again but by then we could really handle that gun we had been using all that time....

what has changed is that the majority of hunters do not live on/very close by the land they hunt.
more and more kids are brought up in suburbia. thanks to marketing and various online talk, these youngsters have little hands-on experience and try to compensate with (for the most part) unnecessary gear.
as someone else stated, the only new stuff that I feel is worth considering (assuming you already own quality firearms and optics), is a rangefinder and GPS.
for clothing, goretex and fleece were around over 20 years ago. fancy camo doesn't help if you cannot sit still. and since everything is made in China (or worse) you don't pay for quality, but marketing. for other gear, proper made DIY projects are most often better and cheaper, but require considerable effort.
hunters nowadays are just another group of consumers. and as such we have been told for decades that it is the right thing to buy a lot of worthless garbage. the more the merrier. don't believe me, put a sales sign on and some sucker will pick it up

Hunters have always been another group of consumers, and have always been encouraged to buy worthless garbage. Go look at old catalogues and you'll see it. The outdoors industry has been with us over a century and it has always thrived on telling people about the gear they need. Hunting travelogues from the nineteenth century always begin with lists of guns and gear. Le plus ca change, le plus we keep on buying stuff.

It's interesting to look at this thread in a broader context. On the one hand we're sure that hunting is declining as more and more people live in suburbs, and that very few city dwellers hunt. But here, we're sure that all that outdoor consumerism comes from urban hunters, and that nobody outside the suburbs is buying into the idea you need all this gear. No real backup for these claims; they're just fables we tell ourselves, ignoring the contradiction we've created: somehow, the very very few city-dwelling hunters have managed to support the entire overextended outdoor retail industry, all those 100,000+ square foot Bass Pros and Cabela's.

I think you're likely to find that younger or less experienced hunters buy a lot of gear regardless of where they live. Also, that hunters with more disposable income buy more gear just because they can. And we have more disposable income today than we did in 1950.

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Originally Posted by welsh

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I think you're likely to find that younger or less experienced hunters buy a lot of gear regardless of where they live.

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absolutely correct.
but how many people spent every day outdoors on the patch they hunt today.
perhaps I shouldn't have written suburbia as some might equate it to a certain area code. the overall lifestyle has changed. and although that was more than 30 years ago, I think we start to feel it now more and more.

and to your earlier point regarding marketing: I was reading some hunting magazines from the 50s last summer. you're certainly right, there were ads. not as many, prices were steep (compared to what the average income was). the articles were long (something most people would not even start to read nowadays).

people focus on the low hanging fruits: back then it were the skills, now gadgets.
also the merchandise hunters spent their money on has changed. it used to be guns, ammo, clothing, maybe optics. nowadays, people are at least as cheap on those, but spent a fortune on "accessories"

Should point out that the 30 yrs of change we are discussing here in regards to Hunting, runs parallel with Fishing..if not more-so....now there's a Marketing empire.

Hard to belief that we have more disposable income, I think we just have a greater access to money :)

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

but how many people spent every day outdoors on the patch they hunt today.

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Very few. That's a fair point. We've become much more mobile thanks to more cars, ever-improving roads, and the expectation you'll have to travel to get to your spot. Same holds for fishing, actually. Though if we were to go back and look at outdoor writers like Burton Spiller, from the golden age of outdoor writing, we'd find that pattern already existed: lots of people who don't live on the land they hunt or fish. Lots of people much like me: don't live on the land they hunt but hunt the same areas year after year and know them pretty well.

This kind of thing has come in waves. In the late 19th century there was a wave of urban hunters, and of eastern hunters hitting the west while the hitting was good. That was the Roosevelt era of the well-heeled sportsman and there was plenty of marketing aimed at separating neophytes from their money.

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

you're certainly right, there were ads. not as many, prices were steep (compared to what the average income was). the articles were long (something most people would not even start to read nowadays).

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That's a common trend in magazines in general these days. Blame Maxim for setting the bar low, if you like. Long-form articles have all but disappeared. The contrast between the old ca. 1982 Field & Streams I have kicking around and the new, post-Maxim incarnation is depressing. Everything today is an infogram or a listicle. But that's been underway in outdoor magazines for years, actually ... go back before Maxim and you'll find that outdoor mags had abandoned stories, which used to be their bread and butter, in favour of "news you can use." People claim to miss those stories, but newsstand sales tell another tale.

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

people focus on the low hanging fruits: back then it were the skills, now gadgets.

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Not unique to hunting, again. I've found the same with music, photography, and just about any other gear-intensive activity. People try to buy proficiency: gadgets instead of guitar practice, photo gear instead of shooting photos. Same reason people fall for new hunting gew-gaws. It's a marketing machine that offers success through shopping. If there's a social trend there, it's way bigger than the hunting market.

One thing that's certainly changed is the number of people who want to make money off their hobby of hunting or fishing. Lots of people coming up with and marketing gadgets, or trying to be guides. I used to joke that there was only one dollar in the entire fly-fishing market, and it just kept circling and changing hands. I think to a lesser extent we see that in hunting, too.

This thread makes me happy to report that I'm at least 20 years behind in terms of gear. I admit, I have camo outerwear but it's hard to find rain resistant gear in anything else.

I'm going to ask a potentially controversial question here: How many of the posters on this thread lamenting the substitution of skills with gadgets use game cameras (the pinnacle of "hunting gadgets")?
For the record, I do not use them for various reasons.

I agree, trails cams are a step forward in technology that aids in Hunting. I use them freely as a tool to do reconnaissance of the bush and to help pattern the deer. However I'm not sure if they could be clarified as a "substitution of skill" though.

I usually place them on a trail that I have found by others skills and the cameras are placed to confirm if they are active. They simple aid in confirming what I already suspected, only it does it at the time of day when I'm not in the stand.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I agree, trails cams are a step forward in technology that aids in Hunting. I use them freely as a tool to do reconnaissance of the bush and to help pattern the deer. However I'm not sure if they could be clarified as a "substitution of skill" though.

I usually place them on a trail that I have found by others skills and the cameras are placed to confirm if they are active. They simple aid in confirming what I already suspected, only it does it at the time of day when I'm not in the stand.

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I'm tempted to use them because I can see how they would help me hunt more efficiently, but I've always stopped myself because I personally feel that they give hunters an unfair advantage. That, and I am somewhat old-school despite by age.
Just to clarify, I don't look down on hunters that use them, it's just that game cameras aren't for me.

I have some, but really use them only occasionally to verify if deer are nocturnal or not.
It frees up time and saves me gas (over 2 hours drive one way). I wouldn't cry if they get banned nor will I advocate they should.
I never felt they are essential and if I had the choice between land to hunt within 15min or a truckload of cellular game cameras, I wouldn't need one second to make choice
hold on: if I find enough suckers to re-sell them to, those things might not be all that bad... LOL

To me game cameras can be a useful tool. But in my opinion being in the stand is the best "trail camera" there is. If the deer are there and are moving during daylight, you'll see them/get your opportunity. But if your deer are nocturnal it doesn't matter if you've got pics on your cam or not...your still not going to see them. I think trail came keep guys hitting the bush if they've got pics on their cams regardless if they've got a visual from their stand or not. What I also find amusing is the amount of guys that overhunt or hunt on the wrong wind. I have a couple spots that I share, and some areas I know guys hunt in, and I drive by these areas and see guys parked there...hunting these areas on the totally wrong wind. Yes "newer" hunters have all the answers at the tip of their finger tips. But experience is everything when in the field. I was fortunate enough to have a couple of mentors at a young age to teach me how to successfully kill big game.
To me a lot of people who are getting into the sport see the hype about it on the Internet and buy into it, so they go out and get rigged up for what they think they need. A lot of guys thing you grab your firearm, walk in the bush and kill a deer. Yes they will get lucky but depending on their success rate they will either get hooked or the new sport to them will fade away.
We seem to be at a peak where everyone is wearing a bass pro hat or a camo under armour hoodie. I think it's great to have more hunters getting into the sport to help us keep a strong backround to the sport, but I think a lot of people are getting into the sport to just call themselves "hunters".

It's funny when I was in school my grandparents who I spent every summer with were from Michigan and wearing the old military camo patterns were the norm. I had an old surplus jacket and I remember walking down the halls and hearing people talk calling me "Rambo" camo was definitely not the in thing. Now take a walk thru any school or shopping centre and see how many people are wearing camo and I would say more than half have never hunted or considered hunting

Yep and in 30 years from now we'd be lucky to even be able to hunt on our own private land.
30 years ago my brother and I would hunt ducks at a pond in a cornfield at the end of our road. Today I wouldn't dream of it. After the first shot the cops would be all over the place, even though legally you are still allowed to shoot there.
30 years ago you could hunt right from shore on Lake Erie near Fort Erie. today you have to be 300 years off shore with 80 feet of decoy string on each decoy and deal with the swells and big waves. Not to mention boaters and fisherman.
Yep - its a different world today.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well you'll have to explain that..'smarter' how? ...they still come to a pile of apples in the middle of the bush..they don't seem to be passing it on that's it a trap :)



Or all this 'advanced' equipment does little to increase our odds....

In the days of old, a man sitting against the tree in his Sudbury Dinner jacket with the wind in his face was shooting as many deer then as they do now sitting up 20' in expensive trees stands wearing top of the line Mossy Oak clothing.

http://gallery.binoharness.com/galle...s/image002.jpg

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I grew up in the Loring area and remember many game poles like this. Do you have anymore old pictures like this to post?

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Originally Posted by rf2

I'm tempted to use them because I can see how they would help me hunt more efficiently, but I've always stopped myself because I personally feel that they give hunters an unfair advantage. That, and I am somewhat old-school despite by age.
Just to clarify, I don't look down on hunters that use them, it's just that game cameras aren't for me.

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That's an interesting take on cameras rf2. Personally, I've never owned one. Partly because I'm too cheap but mostly because I've seen them change the way people hunt, and not for the better.

For starters, they add a whole lot of extra trips in and out of your hunting area to change cards, batteries, etc. I've seen loads of night time pictures of bucks looking at the camera with that typical "deer in the headlights" look and the next picture is of a white flag heading the other way. Many of those bucks were never photographed again. Guys who are otherwise good bushmen and good at reading the sign that's there all of a sudden become "camera dependent", meaning they don't bother going out anymore until they start to see good bucks on camera. My Dad had a camera set up in one of our spots about 5 years ago and if I had used that logic, I would never have shot the nice 8 pointer that I got on opening day with the crossbow. They can also drive you nuts with pictures of deer at your spot when you should have been there, or just before or just after you're there. That starts to change your decision making on when and how to hunt certain spots, when you were probably doing it the right way to begin with.

I'm sure they are effective tools when used correctly and sparingly, but I think too many people become obsessed with trying to "pattern" the deer with their cameras. What they don't realize is that they're changing the deer's patterns with all of the extra human traffic in the bush. If you find that your camera is driving you nuts, ditch it and hunt without the added stress. You might just find that you enjoy yourself a little more.

I use trail cams a lot. I have a few and use them on trails and watches. They have captured some pretty cool shots over the years and also a lot of junk. The info from them I will use to pattern the deer to see when they are on what trail or watch. This time of the year I move them on to a mineral spot and to trails and off the watches. I use them for security on the property as well especially over winter. Thankfully nothing criminal but I have caught a few trespassing that just turned out to be neighbors on a hike. I spoke to one group asking if they were on our trails on a specific date and to make sure they let us know before going on them.

I'm using cameras now to adjust from open watches with baits to narrowing down travel roots. I have only been hunting this lot for five years and they had sped up what I could learn about it. Boots on the ground is my preferred method when I can but I don't have a lot of time right now. cameras for me give me back time.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Or all this 'advanced' equipment does little to increase our odds....

In the days of old, a man sitting against the tree in his Sudbury Dinner jacket with the wind in his face was shooting as many deer then as they do now sitting up 20' in expensive trees stands wearing top of the line Mossy Oak clothing.

http://gallery.binoharness.com/galle...s/image002.jpg

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Terrific pic MP! I also notice none of those rifle's have scopes? :silly: So much for today's technology?

Nothing to do with technology, dollars to do nuts that all those deer were shot over hounds in the snow, with runs that were well known at an old established deer camp ,where the hunters probably hunted over several thousand acres.IMHO

I use trail cameras extensively - have 6 of them out right now. I also spend a lot of time (like all day today) hiking our general hunting area on Crown Land to better understand deer patterns. I use the trail cameras to confirm my "on the ground" scouting and to "inventory" the deer herd to some extent. I find both to be incredibly valuable, especially hunting an area that is a huge relatively unbroken tract of Crown "big woods". Plus, when I see big bucks (or deer of any sort) on my trail cameras it helps to bolster a positive outlook while hunting. That can be essential when you often go days between deer sightings.

Re: cameras and disturbing the bush going in checking them... I have the exact opposite view. I put the cameras in so I don't need to spend much time in the bush scouting. Check the camera once a week. Go in. Swap cards. Get out. Once I had a doe about 30 yards away watch me changing cards, when I left she was still standing there. Minimal disturbance.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well you'll have to explain that..'smarter' how? ...they still come to a pile of apples in the middle of the bush..they don't seem to be passing it on that's it a trap :)



Or all this 'advanced' equipment does little to increase our odds....

In the days of old, a man sitting against the tree in his Sudbury Dinner jacket with the wind in his face was shooting as many deer then as they do now sitting up 20' in expensive trees stands wearing top of the line Mossy Oak clothing.

http://gallery.binoharness.com/galle...s/image002.jpg

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That's not their hunting clothes they are dressed in, is it? Guys 2,3 and 5 from left are wearing ties. These guys are "dressed up" for the photo - which isn't uncommon for old time photos.

I have no idea on the source of this pic....it's a stock photo off the internet...I just used it to help make a point.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Re: cameras and disturbing the bush going in checking them... I have the exact opposite view. I put the cameras in so I don't need to spend much time in the bush scouting. Check the camera once a week. Go in. Swap cards. Get out. Once I had a doe about 30 yards away watch me changing cards, when I left she was still standing there. Minimal disturbance.

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I agree....I've gone in and out and have pics of deer at the same spot within a few hours. It doesn't bother them and it also helps to familiarize the deer with my scent. They get used to it in the off season so they are less likely to be overly alarmed by it when I start to hunt the bush.

They are a good tool...help to confirm the presence of deer in your chosen bush or along the trail where you have set up a stand. They also provide great entertainment when you capture some pics of the deer to look at thru the off season.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

That's not their hunting clothes they are dressed in, is it? Guys 2,3 and 5 from left are wearing ties. These guys are "dressed up" for the photo - which isn't uncommon for old time photos.

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Perhaps not uncommon to wear a tie with your hunting clothes in 1934, depending on your social position. But the guy third from left sure doesn't seem to be wearing his hunting clothes!

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Re: cameras and disturbing the bush going in checking them... I have the exact opposite view. I put the cameras in so I don't need to spend much time in the bush scouting. Check the camera once a week. Go in. Swap cards. Get out. Once I had a doe about 30 yards away watch me changing cards, when I left she was still standing there. Minimal disturbance.

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You're one of the guys that would know whether or not you are putting too much pressure on an area and adjust accordingly.

A lot of folks think that constantly checking cameras and moving cameras is something you have to do to be successful. Then they wonder why they were seeing all these deer on camera and now they don't see anything.

Personally I try to scout an area thoroughly once (preferably in the off months) find the good trails and funnels, set up a few spots then leave the area entirely alone until my first trip in to hunt it. Granted, I don't get a visual inventory of the deer on a particular property, but not knowing is part of the excitement for me.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Nothing to do with technology, dollars to do nuts that all those deer were shot over hounds in the snow, with runs that were well known at an old established deer camp ,where the hunters probably hunted over several thousand acres.IMHO

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Not so sure about all that Gilroy. The photo is from Bill Theilers Resort, Tomahawk, Wisconsin. Taken in 1934. They may have used hounds then??? But I'm not sure one way or the other. There is no snow in the picture, therefore I would assume they were not taken on snow. But again who knows??

The picture is available on e bay for 15.95 u s. 10 deer taken by 6 hunters, apparently??