Furnace and water heater recommendations

Hey folks,

We inhereited rental contracts with the house we bought last year. We looked into getting out and it can be done.. Upfront costs will be high if we replace but we are paying $1,200 per year for the rental of both. We may be getting out within the next year and I want to start shopping around for quality and price. Some have suggested "tankless" water heaters. We are on gas here, but I have no clue if it can be done without incurring too many extra charges. As for the furnace I am not necessarily lured by brand names. We'd like a good quality unit but want value too... What's out on the market at a decent price right now for either a furnace or water heater?

Out home is a 1700 sqfoot bungalow.

I would say the first suggestion is to find someone to trust, unless you know the person recommending them it might be just there idiot cousin that no one else would hire.

Direct Energy... my neighbour threw them out because the service guy was cluless, Peel they messed up the gas fireplace in my house and both had one answer... replace, replace, replace. I looked in the listing I use, called Rolair, they did a $200 repair and my furnace worked fine for over 2 years more until the money was available and there were good rebates. I got quotes from several, Rolair came in, they explained the rebates, the options, the costs and provided us with a better furnace for less and added sound baffling for still less than the others by far! They also fixed the fireplace and I had them install the new water heater, I wouldn't call anyone else in my are that is for sure!

Your best bet is to have them come in and look at what you have, talk about what is available and give a quote.
http://www.rolairheating.ca/services.html

There is another listed in the guide I use as a first choice always you can try.
http://www.shepherdsguide.ca/search....ating&pub_id=7

thank you very much... do you have a tankless WH?

Every home has different needs when it comes to hot water, depending on size, occupancy, location of the current heater compared to where the water is needed. The price of a gas HWH is as low as $500 when on sale while a tankless unit is easily $1200, plus all the venting alterations needed, although they do take up less space.
If they both only last 10 years I don't see how cost effective the tankless option is unless space is at a premium. There is also the option of an under counter heater for the kitchen sink, talk to your local dealer to know what will work best for you.
John

Just checked "Home Stars" which is a great website that ranks/rates every company under the stars... Rolair got a 7.5 out of 10; not that great as a lot of other companies got over 9. These are independent reviews where homeowners comment and rank their service experience... Cozy World got the best 10/10 and received the best service award 4 out of the last 5 years. They install Lennox products...

As for the tankless v tank water heater, what i am gathering is that the tankless is not worth the extra costs.... for the measly saving of $60 to $80 per year, you're paying 3 or 4 times more up front.. it'll take 20 years to recover your upfront costs. So looks like I am leaning toward traditional tank!

Years ago a furnace guy I was chatting with suggested installing furnaces and water heaters on 4 hockey pucks to get them off of the floor especially if you have humid basement. That little air gap helps with preventing corrosion. I looked into the tankless as well and came to the same conclusion that you did. Furthermore that $60-80 energy "loss" leaks out into your house as heat, so it will result in a slight reduction in your heating costs, making the savings even less. We don't have AC so a little heat escape during the summer doesn't affect our costs either.

There used to be a way that you could buy the furnace and hwh from the renter, one lump up front payment instead of monthly for ever. Old rental units can be bought for $50 or less. It might be a cheaper option and give you some more time.

Reputation is everything. Go with someone that will be there in 5 yrs. ask your neighbors who they get and if they are happy, co workers etc. I had a new house built 6 yrs ago and went with a company I thought was family run and going to be there when needed. 2 yrs ago went out of business. Just my luck. Up front price can have a big spread from one installer to the next compare apples to apples. Get it in writing when you decide, I have heard it to many times " that wasn't included in the original quote"

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Originally Posted by Splaker

Hey folks,

We inhereited rental contracts with the house we bought last year. We looked into getting out and it can be done.. Upfront costs will be high if we replace but we are paying $1,200 per year for the rental of both. We may be getting out within the next year and I want to start shopping around for quality and price. Some have suggested "tankless" water heaters. We are on gas here, but I have no clue if it can be done without incurring too many extra charges. As for the furnace I am not necessarily lured by brand names. We'd like a good quality unit but want value too... What's out on the market at a decent price right now for either a furnace or water heater?

Out home is a 1700 sqfoot bungalow.

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I cant help with the furnace pricing but I just went through the Hot water heater deal.
Mine was rented from Direct Energy at 20$ per month. I bought a Rheem Gas heater at Home Depot for 399$ and paid an installer 259$. So almost 700$ in total. That means that in 3 years I will start seeing the profits of this switch.
Since the last heater was almost 15 years old, that will be 12 years of profits.

If you apply the same logic to your furnace also, then the savings keeps growing.

I can also tell you that my furnace is also a Rheem and I have not had major issues with it. Its very easy to work on and do maintenance myself. I changed an igniter last season and it was a piece of cake.

Splaker , not sure if you can do it now but when we bought our house almost 20 years ago we ran a gas pipe for a gas dryer, gas stove and one outside for a gas BBQ. we where lucky as they were all within 10 ft of each other as well and only 15' from the furnace. so the only electric appliances we have are the fridge, washing machine and small freezer.

as for furnaces we just replaced ours last year, as others have said, do your research and find a good quality company that has been doing residential for years in your area.

I looked at tankless and from what I learned it gives the best value on high demand. If you just have a couple of people in the house then it might not be the best option for savings. We only have three in our house. The guy I felt was honest as i was prepared to spend a lot more buying one but he stopped me and told me to get a tank. Internet searches yielded the same info. Tankless is good for houses with large families like a bunch of adults and teenagers.

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Originally Posted by 3Wheelerdude

I cant help with the furnace pricing but I just went through the Hot water heater deal.
Mine was rented from Direct Energy at 20$ per month. I bought a Rheem Gas heater at Home Depot for 399$ and paid an installer 259$. So almost 700$ in total. That means that in 3 years I will start seeing the profits of this switch.
Since the last heater was almost 15 years old, that will be 12 years of profits.

If you apply the same logic to your furnace also, then the savings keeps growing.

I can also tell you that my furnace is also a Rheem and I have not had major issues with it. Its very easy to work on and do maintenance myself. I changed an igniter last season and it was a piece of cake.

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I am paying 25.99 plus tax ($30) for the WH so $360 per year! Costco has a $300 rebate on now but not sure how this applies... if a WH is only $400 does that mean I get it for $100!?! Doubt it but I will see...

My furnace is $70 with tax per month! So we are rising out $1200 per year on WH and furnace... that's a lot of cash. I am looking into the rebates that are often offered when purchasing these units.

Thanks guys... good info/feedack

I used to service electric apartment water heaters and have never lived in a house with gas so hydro was always the way for us. We found that if you removed a rental they charged you for the " unused portion of its lifespan"....about $900, so I would wait for a problem then install my own.
I have been involved with a few tankless units, both gas and electric. Both give scaling problems unless you have really soft water. They also require a uniform load, ok for a couple but no good with a bunch of kids as they will cycle themselves to death, unless you add a storage tank. Ideally you would have one tankless per bathroom/shower...
Now I pick up some excess heat from our Geothermal but next summer I hope to tie into an outdoor wood furnace . Last month out hydro bill was just over $500 before the discount. This was two houses, four adults, two electric water heaters, three chest freezers, three fridges, two water pumps, no oil or gas.....

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Originally Posted by Splaker

thank you very much... do you have a tankless WH?

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No, we went over the options and the costs and need were too big a difference.

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Originally Posted by Splaker

Just checked "Home Stars" which is a great website that ranks/rates every company under the stars... Rolair got a 7.5 out of 10; not that great as a lot of other companies got over 9. These are independent reviews where homeowners comment and rank their service experience... Cozy World got the best 10/10 and received the best service award 4 out of the last 5 years. They install Lennox products...

As for the tankless v tank water heater, what i am gathering is that the tankless is not worth the extra costs.... for the measly saving of $60 to $80 per year, you're paying 3 or 4 times more up front.. it'll take 20 years to recover your upfront costs. So looks like I am leaning toward traditional tank!

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The difference was enough for us that it wasn't going to pay for itself in 10 years or more

Yep, Peel Heating got a higher number rating, the same guys that only wanted to replace the furnace and messed up the fireplace insert so bad it worked once and didn't again until Rolair fixed it correctly and no problems since. Interesting, all the Peel ones are mostly new furnace installations or like this.

"Very disappointed with the service … service person started off by pushing to buy a new furnace right away with out any diagnosis"

"Sunday March 1/15 tech would not travel to get new circuit breaker but ok with leaving disabled seniors in freezing home over night , but ready to replace furnace."

Read the reviews too, Rolair has all 10's except 2 whiners that gave 0's which brings it down. Even they admit he got it working.
https://homestars.com/companies/2227...review_filters

10 stars
Furnace work
Enbridge red-tagged our gas boiler and proposed a new furnace. Rolair inspected and fixed the problem for $90. Two years later, on Christmas eve, the furnace went out and Rolair responded via phone at 8pm, with instructions that fixed the problem.

10 Stars
Furnace and ductwork
I lost my furnace during a massive flood in July. Roely came and assessed the situation and made a recommendation for a small high efficiency furnace that we could put on concrete blocks to get it off the floor to protect it from any future flooding. He and his son-in-law Sebastian did a great installation, and also replaced all of the basement ductwork, adding two new ducts to the upper floor of the house. My house has never been so warm. Better than that, I have even lowered my heat by a full 5 degrees, so the changes I made will pay for themselves within a year or two. Roely is an honest, family man who is highly skillful at his craft (I don't believe the other two negative reviews of him that I saw on this site). He charges fair prices, shows up when he says he will and does a professional job. I trust him completely and wouldn't hesitate to use him again, though I doubt I will need to.

If you want honest answers and a good price.. call Rolair. Feel free to get others to quote but make sure they are offering similar work the others I got quotes from offered lower efficiency and less work (wife wanted sound reduction as much as possible) for more.

My Dad worked as a Union Gas service man for years and I was a summer student with the service dept. so I had a head start, do a bit of research and make sure to ask a few dumb questions that you already know the answer to, some will bs you but one will explain and answer.

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Originally Posted by patvetzal

We found that if you removed a rental they charged you for the " unused portion of its lifespan"....about $900, so I would wait for a problem then install my own.

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we had the opposite result when we moved into our house. previous owners rented the hot water heater, I called to ask them to remove it and they asked if we would take care of it. it wasn't worth anything to them and would cost them more to come get it. I said sure, and we used it for several more years without problem. it was old but not ancient. doesn't hurt to call and ask...

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Originally Posted by JJL

we had the opposite result when we moved into our house. previous owners rented the hot water heater, I called to ask them to remove it and they asked if we would take care of it. it wasn't worth anything to them and would cost them more to come get it. I said sure, and we used it for several more years without problem. it was old but not ancient. doesn't hurt to call and ask...

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Well, I know we can get out of the furnace deal with relatively little pain... we can buy their furnace for a stupid price (like $3800) or have it removed pay an admin fee (about $100) then buy a new one and we are free of a rental contract.. I would never pay $3,800 for a furnace that is already nearly 4 years old. My folks paid $3000 for their furnace and they lived in a 3200 sqft home. Seemed to work just fine. Their installer has since moved west for family reasons otherwise I would have called him.

I still can't get over why anyone would rent a furnace.. we still have to change out filters and to basic maintenance. That's close to $8,500 after 10 years assuming there's no price increase. Crazy... A good furnace should last 15 + years I would think...

Unless I was planning to sell the house in the near future I would not rent a furnace or water heater, given a choice. There is a rea$on why they like you to rent them instead of buying out right...Same with service contracts and extended warranttees

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Originally Posted by patvetzal

Unless I was planning to sell the house in the near future I would not rent a furnace or water heater, given a choice. There is a rea$on why they like you to rent them instead of buying out right...Same with service contracts and extended warranttees

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Agreed... We didn't want the rental.. We had to assume it when we bought he house... but we can get our of it

I have a household consisting of two parents and four daughters ranging from 19 to 12. I went with a tankless after we had to rebuild our basement. I had a 60 gallon tank that I was paying rental on. The tankless cost me $2800 installed plus tax. We've never run out of hot water since. I had heard that repairs can be quite expensive, but there is a 5? Year warranty with I think 12 on th coil. I figured out if I get six years out of it before a major repair, I would have paid that in rental fees over that time period and it would make sense to just replace it if necessary.

everyones situation is different, but talk to people who have owned the equipment you ar considering.

I've been thinking about a tankless as well. But to buy not rent. Looked at one supplier for rental $25/month for hwt and $40/month for the tankless.

In the real world, tankless heaters only work great if you have a uniform load. A smaller load causes cycling and a larger load causes cooler water. Laws of physics that marketing cannot bypass.....
This is why many plumbers are adding storage tanks to them.....

The age of your old furnace and hot water heater may have a bigger impact than you think.

We bought a house just over a year ago, our hydro usage on the old oil furnace was more than double that of the new high efficiency propane furnace that we put in. We converted at a very large cost due to the fact that the old furnace was flagged for a cracked heat exchanger. Before the change in November of last year our monthly hydro consumption was 700 kWh or so, the month of December after the change and our hydro dropped to 250 kWh usage, there is a lot to be said about paying the extra money to get the high efficiency DC motors.

As for hot water, I would never go tankless, your application but that is simply due to how much we use, I forget the numbers but it did not work out to be good for our application.

Good luck, this stuff is a 20 year investment so you cannot screw it up.

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Originally Posted by 35wailin

I have a household consisting of two parents and four daughters ranging from 19 to 12. I went with a tankless after we had to rebuild our basement. I had a 60 gallon tank that I was paying rental on. The tankless cost me $2800 installed plus tax. We've never run out of hot water since. I had heard that repairs can be quite expensive, but there is a 5? Year warranty with I think 12 on th coil. I figured out if I get six years out of it before a major repair, I would have paid that in rental fees over that time period and it would make sense to just replace it if necessary.

everyones situation is different, but talk to people who have owned the equipment you ar considering.

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Do you have occasions when there are more than one hot water loads on at once? People in two showers or a shower and dish or clothes washer being run at the same time? I've always been told that unless you are oversized on your heater, you will have water cooldown in the shower at these times. If you are oversized then the heater will cycle when there is only one load on it...
Been trying to find someone with a real life situation to verify....

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Originally Posted by Splaker

As for the tankless v tank water heater, what i am gathering is that the tankless is not worth the extra costs.... for the measly saving of $60 to $80 per year, you're paying 3 or 4 times more up front.. it'll take 20 years to recover your upfront costs. So looks like I am leaning toward traditional tank!

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The tankless opinion is spot on. The benefit to a tankless is you will never run out of hot water. I would say that is great for very large families with high water use or business' that require a ton of hot water. The upfront cost and yearly maintenance of a tankless just isn't worth it imo. I'm in the industry and I always hate it when they are sold to people on the promise of cutting their gas bill in half.

What side of the GTA are you on? I know a company in Burlington that is top notch and offers Lennox products and service as well as a few other respected brands.

I know a different company in the same area, offers Lennox. Terrible service, know nothing techs, is quick to sue. Online they seem to be maintaining an average rep in regards to reputation but the company is crumbling from the inside out. So be careful.

Dont rent. It's a rip off.
Find a reputable company or get references.
There are a lot of companies that will throw a new furnace in and never be seen again when your furnace craps.
Installation error can result in a shortened life of a furnace or shortened life of expensive parts.
Most furnaces have a 10 year parts and lifetime heat exchanger warranty.
PM me and I can help with any questions and pricing.

Oldbill, I'm in King COunty.

We are thinking of giving Costco a call... I love that company in general b/c the customer service is exceptional... it's like shopping in the 'States. Grabbed their brochure the other day... they send out a company for free consultation, Costco guarantees all the work and offers good rebates... I figure can't go wrong to have them look at it then call up a couple of other reputable companies. Someone mentioned Rolair and they did get back to me... So I'll compare his prices along with Costco and a few others and see where we are.

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Originally Posted by patvetzal

Do you have occasions when there are more than one hot water loads on at once? People in two showers or a shower and dish or clothes washer being run at the same time? I've always been told that unless you are oversized on your heater, you will have water cooldown in the shower at these times. If you are oversized then the heater will cycle when there is only one load on it...
Been trying to find someone with a real life situation to verify....

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We have a natural gas 199,000 btu tankless wh. It is 5 years old, and I haven't done a damned thing to it, though your suppose to flush it every so often. Most nights, when I shower, the dishwasher and washing machine are running at the same time as me having a shower, and there is no cold water in the shower, and I'm the furthest away from the heat vs the other 2 machines. There are 5 of us in the house, and we love it as its a constant temp, not up and down like a tank heater, and we never run out. We've ran 7 people through the shower in series and all hot water..... A tank would never keep up to that.
Where I don't like the tankless is, when say spilling something and you need a quick shot of hot water or you want to wash your hands in the sink, you have to wait longer for hot water vs a tank, but it's not terrible by any means. I have been meaning to install a small small tank heater and plumb it into the system so the tank gets the hot water there quicker and then the tankless takes over .....win win. A tankless is definitely not for every house, but for us, it is.

A tank less wh may not work if your on a well...

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Both of Swamps situations, the varying temperature in the shower and time it takes to come from the tank are more plumbing items than heat source things. Once the water from a tank starts to cool down you are out of hot water and it will take time for it to recover. With a tankless it will cycle and be hot in seconds.
If you are getting shots of hot and cold from a tank heater then you have a pipe problem.

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Originally Posted by patvetzal

If you are getting shots of hot and cold from a tank heater then you have a pipe problem.

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i agree, most likely a mixing valve issue. What I meant was when using a tank and having a shower, when at the beginning the hot water is hot, the longer you stay in the shower the more you have to turn up the mixing valve to keep the same temp as when you started. Basically the result of using most of the stored hot water in the tank and now the tank can't recover and keep up. You could shower for 5 hours straight with a tankless and it would be the exact same temp coming out of the shower head at the beginning as 5 hours later.

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Originally Posted by topher

A tank less wh may not work if your on a well...

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Yes you can use a tankless with a well, we are on a well. You must make sure though that you have enough gpm flow to supply your heater though based on the units requirements

Talked to the water heater people today (Enercare) and it's going to cost around $950 (+tax) to buy out the water heater! It's a 2011 model so already over 4+ years old. That's the only way to get out of that rental contract. As for the furnace, we can get out two ways; either we buy the existing furnace that we are renting from them (Reliance) at $3500 plus tax, or pay an admin fee (around $100+) and have it removed at our cost and then buy our own furnace. The existing rental furnace is a Ducane that was installed in 2013, so pretty new... The sticker says it is a 95% efficiency but I don't know if it's a single or dual stage... hard to locate the serial #.

So if I go brand new on just the furnace I will dish out somewhere around $4000 installed (no clue how much it would cost to remove the existing furnace). But then I have new furnace for a little more than buying out their Ducane that is going on 3 years. The water heater obvioulsly makes no sense to buy right now. Paying $1000 to then buy a new one would be pointless. I'm better off just dishing out $30/month for the WH rental for now. Question is, how long do WH last on average?

What would you do? I'm leaning towards exiting the furnace contract then installing a good high efficiency furnace and just stick with the WH rental.

Never heard of ducane... although image search looks like a goodman.. with is a common lower end furnace... (although still good) past way too tell if it is a 2 state is let the furnace run a bit... I have a single stage thermostat 2 stage furnace.. so stage 1 (low) runs for 5 minutes... than Ramps up if more heat is required... I wouldn't pay to remove... and than by a new one...

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Originally Posted by topher

Never heard of ducane... although image search looks like a goodman.. with is a common lower end furnace... (although still good) past way too tell if it is a 2 state is let the furnace run a bit... I have a single stage thermostat 2 stage furnace.. so stage 1 (low) runs for 5 minutes... than Ramps up if more heat is required... I wouldn't pay to remove... and than by a new one...

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No, thinking of buying the rental furnace... that is the option. It definitely wouldn't make sense to buy the rental at $3500+ then replace for another $3,500+

If it last me another 10-12 years, which it should (it was installed in 2013), then it makes some sense, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Splaker

No, thinking of buying the rental furnace... that is the option. It definitely wouldn't make sense to buy the rental at $3500+ then replace for another $3,500+

If it last me another 10-12 years, which it should (it was installed in 2013), then it makes some sense, I suppose.

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possibly. .. depends what the rental per month is and how long the contract is?

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Originally Posted by Splaker

No, thinking of buying the rental furnace... that is the option. It definitely wouldn't make sense to buy the rental at $3500+ then replace for another $3,500+

If it last me another 10-12 years, which it should (it was installed in 2013), then it makes some sense, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by topher

possibly. .. depends what the rental per month is and how long the contract is?



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$67 per month (tax in). Length is 10 years, I believe.. that's at least another 85 months or so... or about $5,700. It could last another 120 months, maybe more. My parents had their furnace for 20 years with some servicing along the way.

ya buy it off

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I am nearly 100% sure that this is the model i am currently renting...

http://www.ducanehvac.com/products/gas-furnaces/95g2v/

It appears to be a variable speed, two-stage.. which is what I want.

Funny how Reliance tries their best to convince you to stay...

anyone familiar with Ducanes? Is it built by Lennox?

After Jan 25, the buyout price goes from $3800 to $3325! Guess this is a no-brainer! As long as it's not a junk model. If I get another 10 years out of it, I'll be content.

Tankless hot water save more money if your usage is higher no doubt. They only have a delta T of 80 F meaning the output will be 80F above the input water temperature therefore the maximum temperature can vary. The lower temp. usually isn't a problem, but people shouldn't be turning down the temperature of their hot water tanks below 140F/60C which is required by the plumbing code. If you lower the temp on a storage tank, it can promote bacterial growth(ie. Legionella). Hospitals use demand HWHs only, to prevent Legionella. I've been looking at installing one at the cottage as we have an old electric hot water heater and electricity is more expensive there. We have a gas water heater at home and have had controls components replaced at least twice on a tank about 12 years old. This seems to be common.
As far as changing venting, that should only be required if you have ABS pipe and fittings. TSSA changed it to CPVC a few years ago.

If you are adding gas appliances, your existing gas load needs to be checked as that will be what your PRV is set up for. Often it only requires a spring/orifice change, but it should be looked at.

We have Reliance change our AC unit last year and were happy with their work.

Roe+

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Originally Posted by Splaker

I am nearly 100% sure that this is the model i am currently renting...

http://www.ducanehvac.com/products/gas-furnaces/95g2v/

It appears to be a variable speed, two-stage.. which is what I want.

Funny how Reliance tries their best to convince you to stay...

anyone familiar with Ducanes? Is it built by Lennox?

After Jan 25, the buyout price goes from $3800 to $3325! Guess this is a no-brainer! As long as it's not a junk model. If I get another 10 years out of it, I'll be content.

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Find out who builds it. It was Lennox (I think) that have trouble with heat exchangers rusting out and a subsequent recall. My furnace is a Heil, so I figured I was fine. This fall the guy who services my furnace every fall, told me there was a recall on my furnace because it was part of the production run from Lennox, then showed me the paperwork online. That was a big surprise.

Roe+

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Originally Posted by Roe+

Tankless hot water save more money if your usage is higher no doubt. They only have a delta T of 80 F meaning the output will be 80F above the input water temperature therefore the maximum temperature can vary. The lower temp. usually isn't a problem, but people shouldn't be turning down the temperature of their hot water tanks below 140F/60C which is required by the plumbing code. If you lower the temp on a storage tank, it can promote bacterial growth(ie. Legionella). Hospitals use demand HWHs only, to prevent Legionella. I've been looking at installing one at the cottage as we have an old electric hot water heater and electricity is more expensive there. We have a gas water heater at home and have had controls components replaced at least twice on a tank about 12 years old. This seems to be common.
As far as changing venting, that should only be required if you have ABS pipe and fittings. TSSA changed it to CPVC a few years ago.

If you are adding gas appliances, your existing gas load needs to be checked as that will be what your PRV is set up for. Often it only requires a spring/orifice change, but it should be looked at.

We have Reliance change our AC unit last year and were happy with their work.

Roe+

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Would you be going to a propane tankless heater at the cottage? How hard is the water over there? A few years back I was involved with the heaters at Silent Lake that were plugging up with scale pretty quickly.

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Originally Posted by patvetzal

Would you be going to a propane tankless heater at the cottage? How hard is the water over there? A few years back I was involved with the heaters at Silent Lake that were plugging up with scale pretty quickly.

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No problem with hardness Pat, we're on lake water. That said my water is on a 4 stage system; 25 micron>5 micron>1 micron>ultraviolet light. You should have a 1 micron if you want to use a tankless. Yes, I am on propane.

Roe+

Our water tests VERY soft, but also acidic. Eats the bottom out of the dogs aluminium water dish, had to switch to plastic. On a dug well about 15' from the lake.....

That can happen in hard rock, it depends on the minerals present. After all, soft water is acidic and hard water is basic.

Roe+

Trane furnace Trinity on demand water tank. The best, If you want you can use an air coil instead of using furnace. Use glycol 50% solution instead with a heat exchanger, (already in on demand tank)

check if the rental contract includes service, if so.... KEEP IT!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Splaker

Talked to the water heater people today (Enercare) and it's going to cost around $950 (+tax) to buy out the water heater! It's a 2011 model so already over 4+ years old. That's the only way to get out of that rental contract. As for the furnace, we can get out two ways; either we buy the existing furnace that we are renting from them (Reliance) at $3500 plus tax, or pay an admin fee (around $100+) and have it removed at our cost and then buy our own furnace. The existing rental furnace is a Ducane that was installed in 2013, so pretty new... The sticker says it is a 95% efficiency but I don't know if it's a single or dual stage... hard to locate the serial #.

So if I go brand new on just the furnace I will dish out somewhere around $4000 installed (no clue how much it would cost to remove the existing furnace). But then I have new furnace for a little more than buying out their Ducane that is going on 3 years. The water heater obvioulsly makes no sense to buy right now. Paying $1000 to then buy a new one would be pointless. I'm better off just dishing out $30/month for the WH rental for now. Question is, how long do WH last on average?

What would you do? I'm leaning towards exiting the furnace contract then installing a good high efficiency furnace and just stick with the WH rental.

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Sounds like you're kind of stuck with the tank. How much is that tank worth? How big is it?
I bought my place in 99, brand new, and I own the furnace and AC that came with house (Keeprite and I made sure they put a higher end model in during the build), but I got stuck with a hot water tank rental (60 gallon). I'm having a new furnace and AC installed in a couple of weeks but I wasn't thinking in regards to the hot water tank and I'm still paying the 20 or so bucks a month on it. I just bought it out for 40 bucks yesterday, which I could've done years ago. I guess the only benefit is it has been repaired a couple of times over that last couple of years. Next time it needs fixing I'll replace it since I own it now anyway.

As for the furnace, if I was you I'd pay the hundred and have a brand new one installed. It pretty much works out as a wash, except you have a brand new furnace with 10 years warranty. Not having any rentals is always a good selling feature anyway. Just ask Enercare where they want their furnace delivered and when you have the new one installed throw it in your truck and drop it off.
You should be able to get a 2 stage variable 96 efficiency for around 3500-4000 installed. They're all good. Trane, Payne and Bryant if I recall are all Carrier, and International Comfort Products (ICP) which I understand is also owned by Carrier make Heil, Keeprite, Comfortmaker, Tempstar, and probably a few others. Lennox has a few names as well. They're all good, as long as the install is good.

I didn't know Ducane made furnaces but I know they make higher end BBQ's, assuming it's the same Ducane.

The furnace and AC I have now are Keeprite, and I can't complain. In the almost 17 years I've had them the AC has never been serviced or even looked at (only reason I'm replacing is because the furnace is being replaced, and it's age). The furnace has been through one fan motor, some sensor ignition thingy, and now the fan motor bearings are noisy again. Those fan motors aren't cheap and I'm not putting that much money into a 17 year old furnace that is known for exchanger issues anyway, although I never had an issue with the exchanger in mine. Carrier had exchanger issues in some of their models as well if I recall.

My HVAC guy recommended putting in a UVC light over the AC coil to kill mold and bacteria, which does grow on all those tiny fins in your vent.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Sounds like you're kind of stuck with the tank. How much is that tank worth? How big is it?
I bought my place in 99, brand new, and I own the furnace and AC that came with house (Keeprite and I made sure they put a higher end model in during the build), but I got stuck with a hot water tank rental (60 gallon). I'm having a new furnace and AC installed in a couple of weeks but I wasn't thinking in regards to the hot water tank and I'm still paying the 20 or so bucks a month on it. I just bought it out for 40 bucks yesterday, which I could've done years ago. I guess the only benefit is it has been repaired a couple of times over that last couple of years. Next time it needs fixing I'll replace it since I own it now anyway.

As for the furnace, if I was you I'd pay the hundred and have a brand new one installed. It pretty much works out as a wash, except you have a brand new furnace with 10 years warranty. Not having any rentals is always a good selling feature anyway. Just ask Enercare where they want their furnace delivered and when you have the new one installed throw it in your truck and drop it off.
You should be able to get a 2 stage variable 96 efficiency for around 3500-4000 installed. They're all good. Trane, Payne and Bryant if I recall are all Carrier, and International Comfort Products (ICP) which I understand is also owned by Carrier make Heil, Keeprite, Comfortmaker, Tempstar, and probably a few others. Lennox has a few names as well. They're all good, as long as the install is good.

I didn't know Ducane made furnaces but I know they make higher end BBQ's, assuming it's the same Ducane.

The furnace and AC I have now are Keeprite, and I can't complain. In the almost 17 years I've had them the AC has never been serviced or even looked at (only reason I'm replacing is because the furnace is being replaced, and it's age). The furnace has been through one fan motor, some sensor ignition thingy, and now the fan motor bearings are noisy again. Those fan motors aren't cheap and I'm not putting that much money into a 17 year old furnace that is known for exchanger issues anyway, although I never had an issue with the exchanger in mine. Carrier had exchanger issues in some of their models as well if I recall.

My HVAC guy recommended putting in a UVC light over the AC coil to kill mold and bacteria, which does grow on all those tiny fins in your vent.

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Uh Huh..... Wait on your furnace and A/C There is some new stuff coming out in the next year that will blow away all the efficiency ratings of current equipment

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Originally Posted by The Phoenix

Uh Huh..... Wait on your furnace and A/C There is some new stuff coming out in the next year that will blow away all the efficiency ratings of current equipment

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I plan on selling within the next 5-6 years. When that happens I sure will.

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Originally Posted by The Phoenix

Uh Huh..... Wait on your furnace and A/C There is some new stuff coming out in the next year that will blow away all the efficiency ratings of current equipment

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Ya, but i'm sure it'll cost a lot...all new technology does, which will negate the savings...

got a confirmed buyout price - the Ducane (owned by Lennox btw) will cost us $3325 plus tax. Not bad...it's 3 years old this Jan. I am still going to get a quote from a few companies...then we will decide..

The most expensive ducane...... somewhere around $850, sheet metal, $200 labour $500, other $300.00 total 1800-2000. The point? $3300???? profit is one thing....

The new stuff coming out is a digital compressor in a condenser for 1 1/2 tons through to 6 tons. Same size coils etc which mean cheaper manufacturing. Installation is more expensive as you need to have qualified trades people to install and program the system.

Anyone familiar with Napoleon furnaces? I just got a reasonable quite - $3400 (-$250 rebate).

They make great BBQs but furnaces??