Canada and Ontario's debt - servicing debt, $10B more than pensions each year.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co..._lsa=2b12-a366

Ontario...
It has all the usual scary numbers: Combined federal and provincial debt will top $1.3 trillion this year; Ontario will soon owe $300 billion, passing Quebec as the most in-hock province; another $450 billion has been tacked onto the national credit card since the 2008 recession.

At almost $1 billion a month, Ontario spends more on debt interest than it did on its entire welfare system.

Canada
For instance, the report notes that the interest spent last year on previous borrowings –$61 billion – is almost equal to the entire cost of public education in Canada last year.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was elected on a promise to add $10 billion to the federal debt load every year for three years, but even his own finance minister doesn’t appear convinced he can stick to that figure. It’s more likely to be double the promised amount, unless some serious new tax, are sharp cut in spending, takes place.

Borrowing is cheap at the moment, they say. We can afford it … barely … for a little while longer.

Gee , seems that 450 BILLION was when harper was in charge. 10 years = 45 Billion a year added to debt by harper

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mosquito

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co..._lsa=2b12-a366

Ontario...
It has all the usual scary numbers: Combined federal and provincial debt will top $1.3 trillion this year; Ontario will soon owe $300 billion, passing Quebec as the most in-hock province; another $450 billion has been tacked onto the national credit card since the 2008 recession.

At almost $1 billion a month, Ontario spends more on debt interest than it did on its entire welfare system.

Canada
For instance, the report notes that the interest spent last year on previous borrowings –$61 billion – is almost equal to the entire cost of public education in Canada last year.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was elected on a promise to add $10 billion to the federal debt load every year for three years, but even his own finance minister doesn’t appear convinced he can stick to that figure. It’s more likely to be double the promised amount, unless some serious new tax, are sharp cut in spending, takes place.

Borrowing is cheap at the moment, they say. We can afford it … barely … for a little while longer.

---

Why don't we just borrow some money to pay that interest???
I mean, isn't borrowing to spend good? That's what we voted for on October 19th wasn't it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Why don't we just borrow some money to pay that interest???
I mean, isn't borrowing to spend good? That's what we voted for on October 19th wasn't it?

---

I didn't vote for it, after seeing Justin's daddy in an interview insult democracy, voters etc. for about 10 minutes and answer "dictatorship" when asked what kind of gov't he would like I won't vote for another one of the Liberal cronies or their idiot offspring!

Hey Gord.
Re Federal spending.
1) Have you forgotten that a lot of that spending was demanded by the Liberals/NDP?
2) Do you see any credit downgrades?
2a) Any warnings?

You keep griping about Harper/Cda when
1) Harper is now old news
2) The problems here in Ontario drawf any of those that are Federal

Get with the times please. Even if you don't like the amount of debt Harper added, currently ( you know today) JT wants to add to it significantly...So if you do have a problem with the amount of debt THE PREVIOUS government added....Why would anyone ever want to add more...especially these days.....

Haven't you and anyone learned from Ontario?
And what about Ontario?

Something many don't simply want to face.
And now as it relates to Federal politics, adding to the problems is ALTA....

[QUOTE=JBen;949333]

Get with the times please. Even if you don't like the amount of debt Harper added, currently ( you know today) JT wants to add to it significantly...So if you do have a problem with the amount of debt THE PREVIOUS government added....Why would anyone ever want to add more...especially these days.....[QUOTE]

Oh, oh, oh. I know the answer to this one. It's the golden boy can't do anything wrong logic. It's ok to add debt as long as it is our guy who is doing it. I don't know who wears worse blinders racehorses or Liberal supporters. I believe Justin Trudeau could sacrifice a live chicken on the CBC to Satan and some posters on here would not only be ok with it but manage to defend it.

I wonder what will happen when Canada's credit starts to get downgraded (admittedly not for a while) under this leadership. Will our PM right the ship by bringing in touch economic austerity measures or will he go on the CBC and dramatically cry? Or perhaps his mommy will defend him from the big bad creditors.

The only reason I point it out is because Mosquito is always only talking about how bad JT has done in his first couple of months,( when really he has done nothing) ,and overlooks what happened over the past 10 years. If I am not mistaken the previous 3 liberal governments had a surplus and we did not go into debt until harper got hold of the budget.

oh lol ok :)

Not sure I would say JT has done nothing. He has done a couple, easy low hanging fruit things. But as expected he is backing off many campaign promises now that reality is getting in the way.

Martin raided ei to balance the budget, then not long after 2008 hit. Harper certainly added a lot of debt, rightfully/wrongfully. Doesn't really matter anymore. Just worth noting rating agencies aren't concerned, so today really its just a case of do we or should we add 15-20b/year more.

With the state the world is in
With ALTA now in the crapper and unable to finance the have nots
With Ont..
etc
etc
etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Gee , seems that 450 BILLION was when harper was in charge. 10 years = 45 Billion a year added to debt by harper

---

Do you actually believe the garbage you put up or are you just a troll?
http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives...cit/index.html

Try changing the 4 to a 1! $156B being the total.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

The only reason I point it out is because Mosquito is always only talking about how bad JT has done in his first couple of months,( when really he has done nothing) ,and overlooks what happened over the past 10 years. If I am not mistaken the previous 3 liberal governments had a surplus and we did not go into debt until harper got hold of the budget.

---

Projecting on the record of his father and his promises it is obvious to identify how lousy Poodeau will be.

Harper seemed like he planned another 2 terms, he put tax cuts in that cost the gov't over $30B that the taxpayers got to keep (which JT will probably roll back according to his promises). His spending in the worst financial crisis since 1930 at $55B was high but a trifle compared to what some other nations spent and he should have cut in some places more and tossed CBC under the bus and cut atleast 50% of it's funding. A 50% cut to CBC would have saved atleast $5B alone over the 10 years. I tend to agree that employment and helping the people was more of a concern with Harper when you look at tax cuts, TFSA and other benefits to Canadian over the pocket of the gov't., $30B+ according to a recent article.

Ontario alone run by the Liberals in the same time period has had a debt increase of $120B+ which is almost as much as the rest of Canada and the total debt is now about 1/2 the federal debt. If you look at the recent years and if the transfer payments were undone you would actually exceed the feds for the increase.

Pierre Trudeau on the other hand if you take his deficits and convert into todays money would be over $73B in his last year and $70B the year before that and $37B the previous year. Given his father's record he is so proud of (personally I consider him Canada's worst or 2nd worst PM with Cretien close.) and his already promised spending then even with Harper's rather poor record on the deficit he was still a better choice than Poodeau and Mulcair.
http://www.in2013dollars.com/1982-do...2016?amount=29
Using the CBC numbers from above in the graph and in todays money Pierre's deficits would be $72B, $65B and $61B.

Even in the 2 months his spending Justin managed to throw out the projected surplus and replace it with a deficit thanks to the Paris promises etc. and has promised debts to increase atleast $10B (some think double his figure) the next few years.

Boys, boys, relax. Put your feet up and stop worrying. The budgets will balance themselves. Everybody knows it's ok to increase spending as revenues tank right? We can spend/ borrow our way out of debt. Geez didn't you guys take economics in University or were you out skiing and smoking pot?

And in related news.

120million for a brand new bridge linking Ontario to Western Canada..Now all those transports are SoL.We are hearing the Engineers who designed it are from Spain....

Jail guards going on strike, not happy not getting raises. The average guard pulls in 67,000 (Almost what the mean family without pensions pull in). And now its off to arbitration, where they typically don't look at what the people can afford....

Doctors and Nurses still getting stiffed and in line.

Shame, many things the Fraser Institute has long argued, pointed out are bearing "fruit".

But hey, as long the peons keep having to pay for everything and everyone, its no wonder they (the middle class are shrinking).....Amazes me how anyone could gripe about anything Harper has done when right here in Ontario..

And Debt?
Well when overhead takes .55 on every dollar
Interest on debt takes .11 now....

doesn't leave much for the beef. Be it healthcare or bridges.....or many, many, many other things and hence deficits and debt...

Problem for JT is
With Alta in the tank ( oil getting creamed again today)
With Ont in the poor house and many of its residents getting crushed. Unable to save, keep up with exploding cost.

With the world in a state of Who the help knows...

Sure lets spend more, because it feels good and all these things are feel good things....The budget will take of itself

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Boys, boys, relax. Put your feet up and stop worrying. The budgets will balance themselves. Everybody knows it's ok to increase spending as revenues tank right? We can spend/ borrow our way out of debt. Geez didn't you guys take economics in University or were you out skiing and smoking pot?

---

Fishermccann was LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Boys, boys, relax. Put your feet up and stop worrying. The budgets will balance themselves. Everybody knows it's ok to increase spending as revenues tank right? We can spend/ borrow our way out of debt. Geez didn't you guys take economics in University or were you out skiing and smoking pot?

---

Fishermaccann was LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Boys, boys, relax. Put your feet up and stop worrying. The budgets will balance themselves. Everybody knows it's ok to increase spending as revenues tank right? We can spend/ borrow our way out of debt. Geez didn't you guys take economics in University or were you out skiing and smoking pot?

---

Can't speak for others but I was in class. You are right, the Dovregubben* keeps sprouting such outlandish... fiction and I keep rising to the bait... gotta work on that.


* Swedish for king of the trolls - dies when exposed to sunlight.

Interesting that it is now coming to light that Wynne's complaints that Ottawa was stiffing Ontario on transfer payments was not true. Who would have guessed?

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/12...er-report-says

Another inconvenient truth that seems to indicate the 'popular opinion' sponsored by the Liberals was perhaps not quite the truth. It may have even had the hint of a fib - more aghast am I that it was possibly an outright lie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DGearyFTE

Interesting that it is now coming to light that Wynne's complaints that Ottawa was stiffing Ontario on transfer payments was not true. Who would have guessed?

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/12...er-report-says

Another inconvenient truth that seems to indicate the 'popular opinion' sponsored by the Liberals was perhaps not quite the truth. It may have even had the hint of a fib - more aghast am I that it was possibly an outright lie.

---

So the federal government increasing funding higher than inflation or population increases during Harper's reign. I suppose it doesn't matter. Wynne's credibility is lower than a snake's belly anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dythbringer

So the federal government increasing funding higher than inflation or population increases during Harper's reign. I suppose it doesn't matter. Wynne's credibility is lower than a snake's belly anyways.

---

That's not fair to snakes .I like snakes and they serve a purpose on this planet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunter John

That's not fair to snakes .I like snakes and they serve a purpose on this planet.

---

Good one John! After all, as hunters we are caring about the environment. I would pay to see some politicians behind bars at the zoo.

I for one apologize to the people coming up who will inherit this mess. my generation was left in charge of a country in the black with a balanced budget and sensible government. We managed to blow everything all to #$&* in one generation.

I am as "C" as they come but Cons, Libs and the NDP have all been lousy self centered managers.

Hard to argue with that Badern.

Yet when statistics show that since the 60s that.
A) the Middle class is shrinking and losing
B) Back then people spent more on housing/food/clothing than they lost to taxes
C)The poor are still the poor. Not much has changed.
D) The rich or 10% are still the rich or 10%...and then theres the 1%
E) Today the working peons lose more to taxes than they spend on housing/food/clothing (shocking when you consider house prices and the size of mortgages). Wrap your brain around that fact.....

F) Well there are certain laws of physics and math. So if the middle class are shrinking, whats gone up? Well that would be the size and cost of govt of which few will argue all are lousy self centred and care only about winning.


And they blame the 1%
lol!
********

post note.
1% of the population is still just 1% of the population. Regardless of how rich they are, buying them doesn't buy many votes.... And yet still, they (some) want to go after the 1%.......

over to you Gord
:)

Awe,what's a few billion between pals? What's the worst that can happen? The whole thing is a hair's breadth from total collapse,anyway, health care,energy,manufacturing,transportation,but,what they hey? There's bugger all we can do Bout it,now. Just sit back,relax, watch the show and wait for the other shoe to drop. It won't be long,now.......

And theres that to Trimmer.
Of coarse, this time it's Wall Street and CEOs to blame right?

Thinks about 2,4,6 years and some of us kept talking about dark clouds on the horizon, and the position we would be in. Global instability, sluggish economies...

The Dog wags the tail.


http://business.financialpost.com/ne...recaster-warns

Many are predicted that every penny the loony drops will cost us and extra 1% and change for produce.
Guess farmers aren't all that important.....Guess trucking isn't all that important....guess manufacturing isn't all that important.

I suppose if theres any good news in all this, if things keep going to the same direction.
There will be soooooooo many people on social assistance, declaring bankruptcy we will be taking forced retirements and living off the backs of govt for a change. Of coarse Im not sure who will supporting govt then....

Look out if rates change.
PS the US is hiking, the BoC cutting (another cut due Jan 20).
That will make the USD more attractive than the CAD to, and the slide will just get worse. Though at this point thats likely a small mercy, if rates start heading north on top of everything else...

Yep, the dollar went below $.70 ($1.43CAD to buy $1 US) and in Windsor hospitals are laying off staff....
http://windsorstar.com/news/local-ne...-staff-shakeup

Wynne lying...
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/12...er-report-says

bridges failing etc... what next is a good question
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/12...rals-what-next
"The scary thing is that between their cap-and-trade carbon pricing scheme and Ontario pension plan — both scheduled for 2017 — the Liberals are poised to take billions of dollars annually out of the pockets of Ontarians."


P.S.
The guy on BNN on tv gave a $.59 forecast and said there is more downturn ahead.

It's not all doom and gloom. We have a new Ontario pension plan to look forward to. Saad Rafi has been named to head the all new Ontario Pension Plan Administration Corporation and he's only making $525 grand a year with the chance of up to a 25% bonus. I'm so relieved Ontario's financial future is in the steady hands of Kathleen Wynne. What could possibly go wrong?

For the Gords out there. I personally know fund and pension managers or close to that don't earn $700,000 or have pensions :). Some/may do might and in truth if it comes in Id rather someone who is worth that much than some hack...only time will tell...but...

A teacher screws up ( we know G has defended PS because they are so highly educated) and whats the worst..
A person in charge of peoples lives savings?
Hmmmm

The ORPP really gets under my skin. Using farmers because its possible they might get hammered if they start taxing diesel.

So a teacher who earns the duo mean of 75k Sounds fair. ( I really don't know but sounds it)..also has a gold plated pension that's heavily funded by that same "farmer" who bust his backside, sunrise to sunset 365/year

Teachers got 2% (well really a little more given higher salary = higher Pension contributions = more tax payer monies)
Farmer...Well maybe squat the past few years.Maybe that "farmer" actually took cuts given "realities" these past 8 years....
diesel taxes say of .20 on the litre....OUCH!
Teacher...life goes on
Farmer...Carbon tax on pick up too...lets say .10 litre
Teacher..? Well depends..do they take the TTC to work......Do they drive miles and miles to the nearest store/town??? Fair bet I think said "farmer" puts way more mileage on his truck than said teacher puts on their prius.

Farmer goes down another notch

ORPP
Teacher...doesnt touch her/him
Farmer...-2%

If the farmer takes home 75k, thats another 1,500 per year. On top of so many other things these days.
What happens if he dies?
Thanks for playing.

Yep, all those studies that show many things are BS, just right wing propaganda.

Better idea.
'Farmers" have been heavily subsiding PS pensions for decades......
Maybe it's time PS including the lofty ones (our MPs and their best friends) get, subsides a pension for the "farmers" of Ontario. Say 0.5% to 1% each for a change and if it blows up.....well atlas the farmers won't be screaming for a change.

Fair is fair
Right?

And for safeties sake.
1) really don't know what teachers make, nor care much. Only used them because as always they've been in the news lately and wanted to illustrate "teachers" this year +2% (and more due the DBPs)...."Farmers"....who knows but many in private are going backwards and -2% for "them". Each time the economy goes in the crapper a little or a lot...guess who gets dinged....."teachers"....not so much

2) Things like the TTC (also subsidized) vs reality of life for those outside the GTA ( Pick up trucks)

Hydro?
How often does it go out in the Golden TO...Rural Ont?
See the issues with Hydro one and smart meters or over billing?

Healthcare?
Well read the link Mosquito provided on Windsor regional. Nurses being laid off, practical nurses being hired (they are cheaper) and over all 160 job losses. Why?
20million funding shortfall
Why?...Well areas with lower population growth (Rural Ont) are getting less, larger places getting more..Why?

Because for the past 15 years a bunch of clowns and crooks have been running the province when they shouldn't be running lemonade stands, and who elects them, campaigns for them?????

We all know

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

And for safeties sake.
1) really don't know what teachers make, nor care much. Only used them because as always they've been in the news lately and wanted to illustrate "teachers" this year +2% (and more due the DBPs)...."Farmers"....who knows but many in private are going backwards and -2% for "them". Each time the economy goes in the crapper a little or a lot...guess who gets dinged....."teachers"....not so much

2) Things like the TTC (also subsidized) vs reality of life for those outside the GTA ( Pick up trucks)

Hydro?
How often does it go out in the Golden TO...Rural Ont?
See the issues with Hydro one and smart meters or over billing?

Healthcare?
Well read the link Mosquito provided on Windsor regional. Nurses being laid off, practical nurses being hired (they are cheaper) and over all 160 job losses. Why?
20million funding shortfall
Why?...Well areas with lower population growth (Rural Ont) are getting less, larger places getting more..Why?

Because for the past 15 years a bunch of clowns and crooks have been running the province when they shouldn't be running lemonade stands, and who elects them, campaigns for them?????

We all know

---

Homophobe.

Another $475 million....

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...energy-blow-up
Another Ontario green energy blow-up

Debris from the exploding Ontario Liberal green energy rocket continues to land on the hapless citizens of the province. Gas plant scandals, soaring power rates, declining electricity output, massive subsidies to money-losing wind and solar, non-stop bafflegab from government ministers: when will it stop? Not now, and maybe never.

Details of the latest meteorite-sized chunk of the Dalton McGuinty/Kathleen Wynne green power blow-up are on display at the blog of energy consultant Tom Adams, who formerly served on the Ontario Independent Electricity Market Operator board of directors and the Ontario Centre for Excellence for Energy board of management
Adams picks up a story that made brief headlines in late 2012 when Windstream Energy, a U.S. company, filed a NAFTA complaint claiming $475 million in damages. The company says it had a contract with the government-controlled Ontario Power Authority at 19 cents a kilowatt/hour to build an offshore wind farm near Wolf Island in Lake Ontario near Kingston.

.... and now... the HIDDEN debt

http://business.financialpost.com/fp...than-you-think
While this accounting process helps spread the cost over many years, it can disguise the amount of money governments add to their debt burden in a particular year. Ultimately, governments can add more debt to their books for capital projects than from the operating deficit announced in the budget.
...

In Ontario, the projected operating deficit for 2015/16 is $7.5 billion, but the change in net financial position is $13.7 billion — a difference of 83 per cent

Also released to today


The very far left Broadbent Institute paints a stark picture for many who are without Pensions.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/reti...tute-1.3450084

And a Fraser Institute report/Survey on discretionary funds for many, living pay check to pay check
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...lls-poll-finds

With soaring Hydro, taxes and more, is it truly any wonder people can't save, are getting crushed.
remind me again who is crushing the middle class and peons and who campaigns and have benefitted largely and who get very uptight. But hey, those getting crushed...Lets throw them under the bus. We are the left, champions of the working class and social conscious

The Liberals contradicting parliamentary budget officer, showing contempt and just being idiots! Narrative over facts, budget balanced by next election abandoned.... in other words Canada heading for Greece model.


What is most annoying is the arrogance, lack of respect and lack of integrity the current government has displayed.
http://www.therebel.media/watch_what...to_the_surplus
Rona Ambrose tried to ask a question in the House of Commons about how the Liberals managed to burn through the surplus the Conservatives left in just 100 days.

Watch what happened as the Liberals hooted, hollered and heckled until the Speaker finally hushed them long enough for Ambrose to finish her question.

Then there is the Ontario debt..
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...-ontarios-debt
Finance Minister Charles Sousa says we can't pass on Ontario's debt to the next generation. Who exactly does he think we're passing it on to?


and our personal situation (being made worse by the gov't)
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...lls-poll-finds
Nearly half of Canadians are within $200 a month of being unable to pay their bills, poll finds

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...est-rates-rise
Ontario owes $315 billion and keeps borrowing. Here’s what will happen if interest rates rise

If in 2017/18 —when the province promises to balance its books — interest rates are just 0.7 per cent higher than the 2.7 per cent forecast, the province will have to spend $409 million more to maintain its debt. If it’s 1.2 per cent higher, that climbs to $857 million, or about $100 million more than the Minister of Natural Resources’ $720-million budget.

Love some of the comments....



Prosper Theroux If someone asked Wynn what would happen if interest rates increase Wynn would throw her head back and laugh like a mule while putting her hands togethier.

Like: 30 · 8 hrs · Edited

Richard L. She'd also call the questioner a homophobe.


P.S.
Brian Liley with an interesting take on the budget
http://www.therebel.media/liberals_i...sis_to_justify

Budgets will balance themselves right?

His spelling of Chrietien....lol perfect

cre·tin
ˈkrētn/
noun
noun: cretin; plural noun: cretins

• 1.
  informaloffensive
  a stupid person (used as a general term of abuse).
  
  
  
  
  
• 2.
  Medicinedated
  a person who is deformed and mentally handicapped because of congenital thyroid deficiency.
  
  
  
  

Interesting, Brian Liley talking about:

• first part about "social" and "green" infrastructure spending,
• second part about taxes and economy, including the possible increase in the GST in the near future.

http://www.therebel.media/what_liber...infrastructure


and what might happen to Canada's military.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...anadian-forces