Good Fat vs Bad Fat

An interesting topic, Adding Pork to the mix. I expect lots of opinions. Personally I like to remove much of the soft mushy fat found between the muscle groups. Do you look for glands and remove them from your sausage mix? Depending how much I remove I'll sometimes add back fat to replace the fat discarded to maintain a certain lean to fat ration. Any comments and advise?

All fat is bad fat…but taste so good. If I ever get a deer, it will be a 60/40 split with pork. For every 5lbs of pork I will add 1 lb of bacon.

All venison fat is bad! Trim it all off. Mix 60/40 with pork shoulder.

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Originally Posted by line052

it will be a 60/40 split with pork

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I got the guy making my pepperettes to drop it to 70/30..the lowest he could go. Every bit helps when it comes to battling the BMI. :)

I asked at Food Basics this morning about the $0.99 lb Pork shoulders they usually have on sale at this time and they haven't got them. They do have their Boneless Pork Loin on this week however for $1.47 lb and that will work great..maybe better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I got the guy making my pepperettes to drop it to 70/30..the lowest he could go. Every bit helps when it comes to battling the BMI. :)

I asked at Food Basics this morning about the $0.99 lb Pork shoulders they usually have on sale at this time and they haven't got them. They do have their Boneless Pork Loin on this week however for $1.47 lb and that will work great..maybe better.

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You may need to add "back fat". The stuff I picked up over the weekend is very lean with very little fat content.

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Originally Posted by FortyFever

You may need to add "back fat". The stuff I picked up over the weekend is very lean with very little fat content.

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LOL....almost a week into the sale all they had left was the fatty stuff rejected by the fussy shoppers !!

I bought 5 full shoulders from Superstore in Brockville, ended up with 85lbs of meat cubed in the freezer for $1.80/lb, that was after I cut the skin off and took the bone out. We have a lot of wild goose, this is going to be a little nuts, going to mix is 50/50 with the pork. I plan to make up some domestic rabbit sausage and domestic duck sausage too :)

I just made pork sausages and salami. i learned from many older timers and this is what we do. like the OP, we go through the pork removing all glands and the slimy fat. All good meat and fat go in the salami bucket (the best of the best) because its cured and not cooked. The "secondary" meat and fat go in the sausage bucket. You don't have to do this but if you are going to make it yourself you might as well do it right and its good to know that you are providing good quality food for you and your family. Back in the day nothing went to waste including the skin and blood but today we don't have to. We clean the pork the same way when we mix any wild game with it. Quality over quantity.

Interesting thread. A group of us processed 350 pounds of pork shoulder this past Saturday. Our annual run of Soppressata will be ready in 8 to 10 weeks. Just in time, as last years batch is almost used up. :)


Attachment 31956

I've also made about 300lbs of dry cure salamis last week...
As Quack states...
Dry cured meats need all slimy fat removed (shoulders are notorious for this), and add only ham fat, or hard back fat..
HOWEVER
If you're making for fresh sausages, all the fat is good..But make sure to add belly fat for best taste..

Good luck.

I am waiting as well, no bulk sausage left from Sept sale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I got the guy making my pepperettes to drop it to 70/30..the lowest he could go. Every bit helps when it comes to battling the BMI. :)

I asked at Food Basics this morning about the $0.99 lb Pork shoulders they usually have on sale at this time and they haven't got them. They do have their Boneless Pork Loin on this week however for $1.47 lb and that will work great..maybe better.

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I do 50/50 with pork tenderloin as its on sale lots and nearly fat free and use more spices for flavour but I don't use cure in my sasages as I just refreeze and thaw and cook


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pijetro

I've also made about 300lbs of dry cure salamis last week...
As Quack states...
Dry cured meats need all slimy fat removed (shoulders are notorious for this), and add only ham fat, or hard back fat..
HOWEVER
If you're making for fresh sausages, all the fat is good..But make sure to add belly fat for best taste..

Good luck.

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Is the hind leg a better option for making dry cure salamis? Can you elaborate on the process, I might be interested in making a batch. Could you walk us through the process from start to finish.

This is just a quick write up, there is a lot to it and it could get quite lengthy so I will try to summarize as easily as possible, any questions just ask. I’m sure there will be others that do it a little different but here are some pointers for making dried sausage or salami.

You can use the shoulder, hind, tender loin and belly. The more tenderloin you use the more bellies you’ll need for fat content
Since we do fresh sausage and cured we use all of them and separate as we clean (sometimes we order a half or full pig)

All good meat and good hard fat (best of the best) should be used for curing (remove all glands, blood and anything hard) All other like meat with some blood on it or some of the not as firm fat should be used for sausage. If it’s really slimy I tend to discard it but it’s up to you. Since we do it over 2 days we let the butchered meat sit and allow any extra water to drain.

Since the ask was for cured sausage/ salami I will talk about the cured process from here on in.

Grind it all up

Add seasoning – What is important are your basic spices which is salt and pepper. This will make or break it. Too much salt you won’t eat it and not enough will not cure and go bad on you. We use 2.3% kosher salt and 0.3-0.4% black pepper (this is for dried only, do not use for fresh sausage, it will be too salty). We also add red wine that had fresh garlic soaking in it overnight. Do not add the fresh garlic to the mix as it could go bad on you (you can for fresh sausage) other spices you add to taste like nutmeg, cloves, allspice or hot peppers flakes etc. Now get your hands dirty and mix it really well.

You can put it in any size casing you want, the bigger it is the longer it will take to cure. We do some in sausage size (the first to dry and ready to eat) the rest in salami size approx. 3 inches in diameter. String them up on a stick and they are ready to cure. If you want you can cold smoke them before you put them up to hang.

Curing is another really important step that will make or break it. The temperature and humidity are important to monitor. Too much humidity they will grow bad mold and rot on you, not enough or too hot they will dry too quickly and make holes on the inside and will go bad. depending where your doing this you may need to add a heater, humidifier, access to outside air, air conditioner, a box of sand to add water too (in place of a humidifier) to help regulate the climate....Once they feel firm you can try one. Generally you can eat a sausage after one month, still doughy but good to eat. Salami (depending on size) you can try it in 3 month but will need more time to fully cure.

Once they are fully cured we vacuum seal them and freeze them.

This is the quick and dirty version.
Hope this helps!

On the next episode we will talk about curing whole chunks of meat like prosciutto or speck. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quack_Kills

This is just a quick write up,

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I wonder if you could post this under a separate thread with an identifiable title so we can find it later...it's great info and we might not be able to find it later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quack_Kills

This is just a quick write up, there is a lot to it and it could get quite lengthy so I will try to summarize as easily as possible, any questions just ask. I’m sure there will be others that do it a little different but here are some pointers for making dried sausage or salami.

You can use the shoulder, hind, tender loin and belly. The more tenderloin you use the more bellies you’ll need for fat content
Since we do fresh sausage and cured we use all of them and separate as we clean (sometimes we order a half or full pig)

All good meat and good hard fat (best of the best) should be used for curing (remove all glands, blood and anything hard) All other like meat with some blood on it or some of the not as firm fat should be used for sausage. If it’s really slimy I tend to discard it but it’s up to you. Since we do it over 2 days we let the butchered meat sit and allow any extra water to drain.

Since the ask was for cured sausage/ salami I will talk about the cured process from here on in.

Grind it all up

Add seasoning – What is important are your basic spices which is salt and pepper. This will make or break it. Too much salt you won’t eat it and not enough will not cure and go bad on you. We use 2.3% kosher salt and 0.3-0.4% black pepper (this is for dried only, do not use for fresh sausage, it will be too salty). We also add red wine that had fresh garlic soaking in it overnight. Do not add the fresh garlic to the mix as it could go bad on you (you can for fresh sausage) other spices you add to taste like nutmeg, cloves, allspice or hot peppers flakes etc. Now get your hands dirty and mix it really well.

You can put it in any size casing you want, the bigger it is the longer it will take to cure. We do some in sausage size (the first to dry and ready to eat) the rest in salami size approx. 3 inches in diameter. String them up on a stick and they are ready to cure. If you want you can cold smoke them before you put them up to hang.

Curing is another really important step that will make or break it. The temperature and humidity are important to monitor. Too much humidity they will grow bad mold and rot on you, not enough or too hot they will dry too quickly and make holes on the inside and will go bad. depending where your doing this you may need to add a heater, humidifier, access to outside air, air conditioner, a box of sand to add water too (in place of a humidifier) to help regulate the climate....Once they feel firm you can try one. Generally you can eat a sausage after one month, still doughy but good to eat. Salami (depending on size) you can try it in 3 month but will need more time to fully cure.

Once they are fully cured we vacuum seal them and freeze them.

This is the quick and dirty version.
Hope this helps!

On the next episode we will talk about curing whole chunks of meat like prosciutto or speck. :)

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You must be Italian. Pretty much do exactly the same thing. Only difference I use a hand mixer in small batches to reduce the manual mixing, the curing room I use a small heater and humidifier to keep it around 5-8'C and 75-80%humdity. Instead of freezing we store them in the downstairs beer fridge. Only thing discarded are the glands as meaty bones are saved for the minestrone pot and the pigskin and other really slimy stuff is made into something like head cheese also for the minestrone pot.

Be careful everyone.
Do not follow Quack Kills recipe because it is missing some very important food safety steps.
Dried cured salami needs to jump over several hurdles to be safe to eat.

1) The quoted amount of salt is too low. 2.5-3.0% salt is the Standard. That should suppress growth of E. coli.
2) To suppress Clostridium botulinum some nitrites need to be added. For a dried Salami, that will be a product called Cure #2 which contain both sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate plus plain salt. Available at all sausage making suppliers
3) To suppress the potential for Staph. aureus toxin food poisoning, salami needs to ferment to a pH less than 5.3 within a certain number of hours depending on the temperature it ferments. To do this, a package of Lactic Acid bacteria plus some dextrose must be added to the meat. Then the pH must be verified by a reputable measuring devise within the degree-hour-limitation graphs available from CFIA in Canada.
Failure to follow these steps could results in catastrophic food poisoning.
I've been making salami for 17 years and follow the steps I've described above with no problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quack_Kills

This is just a quick write up, there is a lot to it and it could get quite lengthy so I will try to summarize as easily as possible, any questions just ask. I’m sure there will be others that do it a little different but here are some pointers for making dried sausage or salami.

You can use the shoulder, hind, tender loin and belly. The more tenderloin you use the more bellies you’ll need for fat content
Since we do fresh sausage and cured we use all of them and separate as we clean (sometimes we order a half or full pig)

All good meat and good hard fat (best of the best) should be used for curing (remove all glands, blood and anything hard) All other like meat with some blood on it or some of the not as firm fat should be used for sausage. If it’s really slimy I tend to discard it but it’s up to you. Since we do it over 2 days we let the butchered meat sit and allow any extra water to drain.

Since the ask was for cured sausage/ salami I will talk about the cured process from here on in.

Grind it all up

Add seasoning – What is important are your basic spices which is salt and pepper. This will make or break it. Too much salt you won’t eat it and not enough will not cure and go bad on you. We use 2.3% kosher salt and 0.3-0.4% black pepper (this is for dried only, do not use for fresh sausage, it will be too salty). We also add red wine that had fresh garlic soaking in it overnight. Do not add the fresh garlic to the mix as it could go bad on you (you can for fresh sausage) other spices you add to taste like nutmeg, cloves, allspice or hot peppers flakes etc. Now get your hands dirty and mix it really well.

You can put it in any size casing you want, the bigger it is the longer it will take to cure. We do some in sausage size (the first to dry and ready to eat) the rest in salami size approx. 3 inches in diameter. String them up on a stick and they are ready to cure. If you want you can cold smoke them before you put them up to hang.

Curing is another really important step that will make or break it. The temperature and humidity are important to monitor. Too much humidity they will grow bad mold and rot on you, not enough or too hot they will dry too quickly and make holes on the inside and will go bad. depending where your doing this you may need to add a heater, humidifier, access to outside air, air conditioner, a box of sand to add water too (in place of a humidifier) to help regulate the climate....Once they feel firm you can try one. Generally you can eat a sausage after one month, still doughy but good to eat. Salami (depending on size) you can try it in 3 month but will need more time to fully cure.

Once they are fully cured we vacuum seal them and freeze them.

This is the quick and dirty version.
Hope this helps!

On the next episode we will talk about curing whole chunks of meat like prosciutto or speck. :)

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johny

Be careful everyone.
Do not follow Quack Kills recipe because it is missing some very important food safety steps.
Dried cured salami needs to jump over several hurdles to be safe to eat.

1) The quoted amount of salt is too low. 2.5-3.0% salt is the Standard. That should suppress growth of E. coli.
2) To suppress Clostridium botulinum some nitrites need to be added. For a dried Salami, that will be a product called Cure #2 which contain both sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate plus plain salt. Available at all sausage making suppliers
3) To suppress the potential for Staph. aureus toxin food poisoning, salami needs to ferment to a pH less than 5.3 within a certain number of hours depending on the temperature it ferments. To do this, a package of Lactic Acid bacteria plus some dextrose must be added to the meat. Then the pH must be verified by a reputable measuring devise within the degree-hour-limitation graphs available from CFIA in Canada.
Failure to follow these steps could results in catastrophic food poisoning.
I've been making salami for 17 years and follow the steps I've described above with no problem.

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People have been making sausage for 100's of years following quack's or similar rules.
Some of the CFIA and OMFRA rules make making a traditional german sausage impossible.
Go up the valley where 10 years ago there were many very good traditional sausage makers.
Today, none of licenced shops makes a decent german sausage - only the blackmarket makers can - they make and sell their products - almost operating like drug dealers. And the black-market traditional sausage goes for almost twice the price per pound of the junk made following OMFRA's silly rules.

...and if you're worried about health - you should probably look into what nitrates do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quack_Kills

This is just a quick write up, there is a lot to it and it could get quite lengthy so I will try to summarize as easily as possible, any questions just ask. I’m sure there will be others that do it a little different but here are some pointers for making dried sausage or salami.

You can use the shoulder, hind, tender loin and belly. The more tenderloin you use the more bellies you’ll need for fat content
Since we do fresh sausage and cured we use all of them and separate as we clean (sometimes we order a half or full pig)

All good meat and good hard fat (best of the best) should be used for curing (remove all glands, blood and anything hard) All other like meat with some blood on it or some of the not as firm fat should be used for sausage. If it’s really slimy I tend to discard it but it’s up to you. Since we do it over 2 days we let the butchered meat sit and allow any extra water to drain.

Since the ask was for cured sausage/ salami I will talk about the cured process from here on in.

Grind it all up

Add seasoning – What is important are your basic spices which is salt and pepper. This will make or break it. Too much salt you won’t eat it and not enough will not cure and go bad on you. We use 2.3% kosher salt and 0.3-0.4% black pepper (this is for dried only, do not use for fresh sausage, it will be too salty). We also add red wine that had fresh garlic soaking in it overnight. Do not add the fresh garlic to the mix as it could go bad on you (you can for fresh sausage) other spices you add to taste like nutmeg, cloves, allspice or hot peppers flakes etc. Now get your hands dirty and mix it really well.

You can put it in any size casing you want, the bigger it is the longer it will take to cure. We do some in sausage size (the first to dry and ready to eat) the rest in salami size approx. 3 inches in diameter. String them up on a stick and they are ready to cure. If you want you can cold smoke them before you put them up to hang.

Curing is another really important step that will make or break it. The temperature and humidity are important to monitor. Too much humidity they will grow bad mold and rot on you, not enough or too hot they will dry too quickly and make holes on the inside and will go bad. depending where your doing this you may need to add a heater, humidifier, access to outside air, air conditioner, a box of sand to add water too (in place of a humidifier) to help regulate the climate....Once they feel firm you can try one. Generally you can eat a sausage after one month, still doughy but good to eat. Salami (depending on size) you can try it in 3 month but will need more time to fully cure.

Once they are fully cured we vacuum seal them and freeze them.

This is the quick and dirty version.
Hope this helps!

On the next episode we will talk about curing whole chunks of meat like prosciutto or speck. :)

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Interesting, thanks for the write up. You mention humidity and temperature can make or break it, can you be more specific, what temp and humidity is ideal? You also mention spices in your write up, can you elaborate i.e. how much per pound. Keep it coming, can't wait for your write up on prosciutto and speck. Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johny

Be careful everyone.
Do not follow Quack Kills recipe because it is missing some very important food safety steps.
Dried cured salami needs to jump over several hurdles to be safe to eat.

1) The quoted amount of salt is too low. 2.5-3.0% salt is the Standard. That should suppress growth of E. coli.
2) To suppress Clostridium botulinum some nitrites need to be added. For a dried Salami, that will be a product called Cure #2 which contain both sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate plus plain salt. Available at all sausage making suppliers
3) To suppress the potential for Staph. aureus toxin food poisoning, salami needs to ferment to a pH less than 5.3 within a certain number of hours depending on the temperature it ferments. To do this, a package of Lactic Acid bacteria plus some dextrose must be added to the meat. Then the pH must be verified by a reputable measuring devise within the degree-hour-limitation graphs available from CFIA in Canada.
Failure to follow these steps could results in catastrophic food poisoning.
I've been making salami for 17 years and follow the steps I've described above with no problem.

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Like i said, others will do things differently, to each their own. I personally don't and will never add the above chemicals to my natural products. For commercial purposes you may have to follow the above but for home use no way i would. We have used it before but found out that those additives aren't good and to me they make the meat taste funny compared to the natural ones. i cannot get myself to eat store bought salami because of the nitrates and additives they add. They didn't use it years ago and feel they are not needed now other than for mass production. This is the basic recipe my grandfather used and what my dad and myself use, The family has been producing salami this way for over 60 years with out an issue, stating not to follow it is a bit much. making people aware of possible issues is good. if you like it that's great, keep doing it!

You won't have the perfect recipe right off the bat, If you want to add 0.2% more salt go for it, try different methods over the years, different mixes, it will be a hit and miss, but you will learn what works best for you, its all a fun learning experience....until you have "catastrophic food poisoning" ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

You must be Italian. Pretty much do exactly the same thing. Only difference I use a hand mixer in small batches to reduce the manual mixing, the curing room I use a small heater and humidifier to keep it around 5-8'C and 75-80%humdity. Instead of freezing we store them in the downstairs beer fridge. Only thing discarded are the glands as meaty bones are saved for the minestrone pot and the pigskin and other really slimy stuff is made into something like head cheese also for the minestrone pot.

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You bet, i was in your area making salami last weekend. Wine and meat can't go wrong!

We used too keep them in the fridge as well, lately we have been freezing them and seems to be going well. Give it a try sometime, see if you find a difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FortyFever

Interesting, thanks for the write up. You mention humidity and temperature can make or break it, can you be more specific, what temp and humidity is ideal? You also mention spices in your write up, can you elaborate i.e. how much per pound. Keep it coming, can't wait for your write up on prosciutto and speck. Thanks

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FFF has a good range of temperature and humidity. "keep it around 5-8'C and 75-80%humdity. "

As for the other spices we don't have a per pound measurement, its too taste. After we make a mix we through a patty in a frying pan, cook it and taste it before casing it in case more spice/heat is needed.

Be smart, don't over do it, start small and learn from your mistakes, always try to prefect the last batch. If it goes wrong don't be discouraged, learn from it adjust and have fun! And write everything down so you don't forget what happened the year before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johny

Be careful everyone.
Do not follow Quack Kills recipe because it is missing some very important food safety steps.
Dried cured salami needs to jump over several hurdles to be safe to eat.

1) The quoted amount of salt is too low. 2.5-3.0% salt is the Standard. That should suppress growth of E. coli.
2) To suppress Clostridium botulinum some nitrites need to be added. For a dried Salami, that will be a product called Cure #2 which contain both sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate plus plain salt. Available at all sausage making suppliers
3) To suppress the potential for Staph. aureus toxin food poisoning, salami needs to ferment to a pH less than 5.3 within a certain number of hours depending on the temperature it ferments. To do this, a package of Lactic Acid bacteria plus some dextrose must be added to the meat. Then the pH must be verified by a reputable measuring devise within the degree-hour-limitation graphs available from CFIA in Canada.
Failure to follow these steps could results in catastrophic food poisoning.
I've been making salami for 17 years and follow the steps I've described above with no problem.

---

Sounds like a discussion we had here about aging meat.... People have been making it for a very long time without all that stuff with great success, so why is it necessary today?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quack_Kills

Like i said, others will do things differently, to each their own. I personally don't and will never add the above chemicals to my natural products. For commercial purposes you may have to follow the above but for home use no way i would. We have used it before but found out that those additives aren't good and to me they make the meat taste funny compared to the natural ones. i cannot get myself to eat store bought salami because of the nitrates and additives they add. They didn't use it years ago and feel they are not needed now other than for mass production. This is the basic recipe my grandfather used and what my dad and myself use, The family has been producing salami this way for over 60 years with out an issue, stating not to follow it is a bit much. making people aware of possible issues is good. if you like it that's great, keep doing it!

You won't have the perfect recipe right off the bat, If you want to add 0.2% more salt go for it, try different methods over the years, different mixes, it will be a hit and miss, but you will learn what works best for you, its all a fun learning experience....until you have "catastrophic food poisoning" ;)

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I agree 100% We would never use those mentioned chemicals in our recipe. Our recipe has been in the Paone family of Calabria for many generations and each year we get a lot of compliments on the taste. We always run just over two percent salt and have never had a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quack_Kills

You bet, i was in your area making salami last weekend. Wine and meat can't go wrong!

We used too keep them in the fridge as well, lately we have been freezing them and seems to be going well. Give it a try sometime, see if you find a difference.

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Good too know its a viable option so far haven't needed the extra space.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johny

Be careful everyone.
Do not follow Quack Kills recipe because it is missing some very important food safety steps.
Dried cured salami needs to jump over several hurdles to be safe to eat.

1) The quoted amount of salt is too low. 2.5-3.0% salt is the Standard. That should suppress growth of E. coli.
2) To suppress Clostridium botulinum some nitrites need to be added. For a dried Salami, that will be a product called Cure #2 which contain both sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate plus plain salt. Available at all sausage making suppliers
3) To suppress the potential for Staph. aureus toxin food poisoning, salami needs to ferment to a pH less than 5.3 within a certain number of hours depending on the temperature it ferments. To do this, a package of Lactic Acid bacteria plus some dextrose must be added to the meat. Then the pH must be verified by a reputable measuring devise within the degree-hour-limitation graphs available from CFIA in Canada.
Failure to follow these steps could results in catastrophic food poisoning.
I've been making salami for 17 years and follow the steps I've described above with no problem.

---

Yes and No. Would I recommend a total novice to attempt home curing no. Yet the time honoured hand me down traditions of the old world works quite well. There are more reports in the news from illness from package lettuce than home brew stuff. Along with the health concerns of nitrates kind of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

get rid of all the fat and add pork fat . it tastes better .

I was at COSTCO about 3 weeks ago and met up with a guy that was asking over the meat counter for pork shoulder. Turns out Costco will only sell a case of pork shoulder (no bone, skin off and about 3/4 size of a normal pillow). I asked how much a case, he went back and weighted a case and it was 41KG and the price was $108.00 (no tax). I said I would take it and Ivan (the guy I met was hunter and I have new friend). Ivan, took one package and gave me $35.00 and I took the rest of the case home. Very good saving over the 2 pack in store. I have been keeping my eyes out for pork shoulder, bone in and skin all fall and have not seen any yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I got the guy making my pepperettes to drop it to 70/30..the lowest he could go. Every bit helps when it comes to battling the BMI. :)

I asked at Food Basics this morning about the $0.99 lb Pork shoulders they usually have on sale at this time and they haven't got them. They do have their Boneless Pork Loin on this week however for $1.47 lb and that will work great..maybe better.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by line052

weighted a case and it was 41KG and the price was $108.00 (no tax).

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That's a good price Mark..in and around $1/lb.

I'm just heading out the door to the Aldi in Ogdensburg and I'll price a pork shoulder down there.

I didn't see any big slabs of pork at the Aldi's but we stopped at the Independent in Prescott on the way home and they had the big Pork Shoulder there on sale...

$2.18/kg....a 9.12 kg shoulder cost $20.

Great deal on fresh pork if your turning your venison into pepperettes.