OSPCA seeks to destroy 21 pit bulls

A dog fighting ring was busted last fall in Tilbury and the 31 Pit bulls were discovered there and have been in the 'custody' of the SPCA since. Now they want to put them down.

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Ken Marley, who represents all four people accused in the case -- they collectively face more than 300 charges related to owning pit bulls, animal cruelty and weapons-related offenses -- said he will "vigorously oppose the destruction of any more of his clients' dogs."

"It's disturbing to me that three of them have been destroyed already without a court order," Marley said, adding that he and his clients didn't find out about those deaths, which occurred in December, until two weeks ago when he received the society's court application.
"Usually if there are charges under the Dog Owners' Liability Act, the destruction of the dogs will be determined after the conclusion of the trial, but the Crown Attorney's office is trying to get this application done more quickly."
Last October, Chatham-Kent police and the OSPCA raided a home in southwestern Ontario -- Tilbury Township -- and seized 31 pit bulls, which are banned in the province, alleging they were part of a dogfighting ring.
Elizabeth Quinto, a lawyer in Cambridge, Ont., says she's planning on intervening on behalf of several dog rescue and animal rights organizations.
"I want the OSPCA to allow a third party, a reputable rescue or reputable behaviour assessment specialist, to come in, positively assess the dogs and be able to allow rescues to take them out of the province," she said.


Dewar said that likely won't happen, explaining that although the dogs are in the society's care, they are still the property of the owners. Either the dogs are destroyed if the court agrees with its application, or they remain with the OSPCA.
"We have no legal authority to move those dogs out of our care, they have to remain there, unless the decision by the court is to have them humanely euthanized," Dewar said, adding that the dogs are currently being housed at an undisclosed location.
He said it was a difficult decision for the OSPCA to proceed with the application to kill the dogs.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/22...gfighting-ring

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Seems even Don Cherry has jumped into the Frey to save them.

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"Let me get this straight," Cherry tweeted. "The Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (OSPCA) says they rescued 21 dogs from an alleged dogfighting ring and now they are going to kill them. Am I missing something here?"
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/don-cherry...439.html?nhp=1

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The question is I quess...why is the SPCA recommending they be destroyed...did they fail the C-BARQ evaluation and are now earmarked for euthanasia ?

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Though SPCA officials would not give details about why they made the application, Marley said he was told the SPCA considers the animals to be dangerous.

"They have concerns about the ability of these dogs to be rehabilitated from their behaviours and so they're perceived to be a threat to public safety," he said.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...case-1.3446708

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I wonder why you never hear about these dog fighting rings using anything other than PitBulls..

MikePal,I know this really PO's all the dog lovers,but,once Pit Bulls are bred and trained to be fighters,there's no way to rehab them to be gentle family dogs.They are what they are. They're simply is no other choice except to put them all down.

I had originally thought the the SPCA was NOT allowed to adopt out a Pit Bull...so they would have automatically being euthanized and no requirement for a court order.

But I see, if I read it right, that they can be adopted within the regulations;

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Acquiring Restricted Pit Bulls

• Pit bulls kept legally after the ban will be known as "grandfathered" or restricted put bulls.
• A person who did not own any pit bulls on August 29, 2005, will be able to acquire one restricted pit bull.
• A person who owned one or more pit bulls on August 29, 2005 will be able to acquire more restricted pit bulls so long as the effect would not be to leave the person with more pit bulls than he or she owned on August 29, 2005.
• [COLOR=#ff0000]Pounds and humane societies are able to adopt out restricted pit bulls, provided that the transfer of the pit bull to a new owner would not lead to a violation of the restrictions on acquisition.
  

https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov....fty.php#TOC_12

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Seem a little convoluted..

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

,but,once Pit Bulls are bred and trained to be fighters,there's no way to rehab them to be gentle family dogs.They are what they are. They're simply is no other choice except to put them all down.

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That is probably why the SPCA is requested the court order...it would be almost impossible to adopt them out to a qualifying new owner when the dogs history is known.

Euthanize the people.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Euthanize the people.

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That takes too long....even in dog years :)

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

MikePal,I know this really PO's all the dog lovers,but,once Pit Bulls are bred and trained to be fighters,there's no way to rehab them to be gentle family dogs.They are what they are. They're simply is no other choice except to put them all down.

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Dont agree Pit Bulls that are bred are the same as any other dog, if you encourage their fighting abilities as they grow then they will attack other dogs.That does not mean to say they will attack people.I adopted my dog at one year old from a humane society
did not know his history,he is great with people and not so great around any dogs showing aggression.Its all down to the owners and how much care and attention you give to the dogs.

These pitbulls were selectively bred and trained to kill dogs. You can spin it anyway you want but that is reality. These dogs need to be destroyed as soon as possible and the owners jailed. This is a dog fighting ring that got broken up. Not backyard breeders trying to change the breed. How anybody can not see this is almost bizarre.

Fighting Pitbulls CAN be rehabilitated: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...roit-1.3285785

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Originally Posted by spinster

Fighting Pitbulls CAN be rehabilitated: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...roit-1.3285785

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Nonsense. You could never guarantee what could happen down the road. The results could be tragic.

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Originally Posted by spinster

Fighting Pitbulls CAN be rehabilitated: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...roit-1.3285785

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Old news but you'll never get some of these old folks to sway from their old school set in stone ways.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Howanybody can not see this is almost bizarre.

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They don't see it because they subconsciously refuse to see it. Here's the money quote:
"I want the OSPCA to allow a third party, a reputable rescue or reputable behaviour assessment specialist, to come in, positively assess the dogs and be able to allow rescues to take them out of the province," she said.

Note that the only outcome she considers is that the dogs will be rescued and taken out of the province, and that rescues are equated with "behavioural assessment specialists." The conclusion that the dogs must be rescued goes before the reasoning. It's an article of faith.

The underlying assumption is that all dogs can be rehabilitated. Any information that contradicts that belief is rejected as false without consideration. The people doing this don't even realize they're doing it; it's a subconscious process. It's not that they're necessarily stupid; it's that their minds will not allow their intelligence to assess the evidence.

We don't have to look too far to find an example of this.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The question is I quess...why is the SPCA recommending they be destroyed...did they fail the C-BARQ evaluation and are now earmarked for euthanasia ?

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MikePal seems to be incapable of grasping what the C-BARQ actually is, and how it is used. He continues to believe that it is a pass/fail test used to assess shelter inductees and earmark dogs for euthanasia, although it is not used this way. Indeed, in a past discussion, I linked to an article that explained how the C-BARQ was used to discredit the very shelter assessments he had confused it with.

He seems incapable of accepting this. Why?

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Originally Posted by spinster

Fighting Pitbulls CAN be rehabilitated: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...roit-1.3285785

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Absent from that article is any evidence to support the claim.

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Originally Posted by welsh

He seems incapable of accepting this. Why?

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I think it's you who seems not to grasp that the C-BARQ is being used to help "screening dogs for the presence and severity of behavioral problems".....and at a shelter that could mean euthanasia.

Why are you having a hard time grasping it when it's in it's own literature ?

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The C-BARQ is available to veterinarians, behavioral consultants, researchers, shelters, breeders, and working dog organizations with an interest in screening dogs for the presence and severity of behavioral problems. For a limited period, it is also open to pet-owners interested in comparing their dogs to others in the C-BARQ database.
http://vetapps.vet.upenn.edu/cbarq/about.cfm

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Here's an example of a shelter using the C-BARQ as a screening tool..

Although not stipulated....it's certain that if the outcome of a dog being relinquished to a shelter was proven to be aggressive, the 'prospect' would be dim..

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Now things get really cool. The research team at UPenn recently tested a shortened version (just 42 items) of C-BARQ (Duffy, Kruger, Serpell, 2014) to determine if it could serve as a more reliable tool for shelters. I asked Dr. Serpell to tell me the motivation for developing the shorter version and he noted, “Our goal in developing and testing this short version of the C-BARQ was to provide animal shelters and adoption organizations with a new tool for screening owner-surrendered dogs for behavior problems. Used in combination with direct behavioral observation and testing, we believe this instrument can help people make better informed decisions about the prospects for these dogs."

http://www.aspcapro.org/comment/124956

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edit add:

Note: I was actually being facetious when I made the comment about the C-BARQ being used…visualizing a bunch of guys who run a dog fighting ring being asked to answer questions about their dogs behaviour….:)

If these "experts" and apologists were prepared to put up personal guarantees covering all potential costs and expenses be it injury or legal expenditures do you think they would have the same convictions? You can sue a medical practitioner for mal practice and they have a professional body guaranteeing standards. These doggy experts have what? If they were prepared to risk their homes and retirements to back up their claims then they might have some credibility, but not enough for me.
Pitbulls were created ( by evil men ) to fight and kill efficiently, the breed isn't the result of natural selection in the wild it was specifically created to kill. These seized dogs are killing machines first and the fact they"may" live peacefully away from the fight ring can't be guaranteed 100%.

How in a province where these dogs are banned can someone possibly have 21. It would seem the legislation is not working or no one is enforcing the legislation.

Kinda like how the gun registry failed to eliminate illegal gun trafficking???
Strange how that works... lol

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

How in a province where these dogs are banned can someone possibly have 21. It would seem the legislation is not working or no one is enforcing the legislation.

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It's working. See here, no pitbulls:

http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...ite-Statistics

I see pitbulls all the time in the city they are not going anywhere but trust me dogs can change there is the odd one that just had to rough of a life to be rehomed but for the most part they can apart of a family I hate having the pit bull conversation ppl just don't wanna look for there selfs there's so Manny people on TV or YouTube or books of saving a dog from a fighting put and placing the dog in a home with kind people like I always say watch out for the small the dogs they never get trained

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Here's an example of a shelter using the C-BARQ as a screening tool..

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Except that it's not used in the manner you facetiously suggested. Shelters don't do the assessment, owners do, and there is no pass/fail.

I've seen this being posted all over fb. Not to sound cold hearted, I love pitbulls, but these were seized from a fighting ring... I'm sure their entire lives have been horrible. I think people need to tuck their bleeding hearts away - euthanizing these 21 dogs is the most humane and safe thing to do - for both the dogs and anyone/anything they may come into contact with down the road.

I'm all about giving a dog "A" chance. I'm not as qualified as some think they are, to be the judge jury and executioner which in most if not all cases seems to be based on fear of the "what ifs"..

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Dont agree Pit Bulls that are bred are the same as any other dog, if you encourage their fighting abilities as they grow then they will attack other dogs.That does not mean to say they will attack people.I adopted my dog at one year old from a humane society
did not know his history,he is great with people and not so great around any dogs showing aggression.Its all down to the owners and how much care and attention you give to the dogs.

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You managed hardened criminals for years; I don't think you'd have any problem with a pit bull. Your dog is lucky to have you. :)

We buy and pay for insurance based on "what ifs". We spend billions on military infrastructure based on "what ifs". Global stock markets operate on "what ifs". We spend billions on police forces and fire departments based on "what ifs". These 21 dogs were illegally bred with the sole purpose of fighting and killing dogs. This breed was developed with that purpose. The fact that dysfunctional cowards get turned on by owning a dog like this is almost understandable but when people try and convince rational people that pits are sweet misunderstood dogs its scary. These 21 dogs are about as high risk as it gets. Will you hold yourself personally responsible if one snaps and attacks for all costs incurred up to and including death? Because the simple fact of you condoning the rehoming of these killers could mean they end up in a subdivision full of children and pets. It's easy to say Oh sure let them be but are we left with if even one attacks. I don't care how tough you are or how many tattoos you have, an adult pit is near unstoppable without a gun and in an attack that is usually not an option.

Dog fighting is all very sad. Many techniques used to keep it under the radar. Sometimes they just put two dogs in the trunk of a car and just take out the winner... all for a few bucks of winning money. Not something I can understand.

SPCA have already separated out the few they believe can be rehomed in another province. No other recourse but to put down the other 21.

Not to sensationalize...but 'What if' ....is why it's done...to hope you can prevent this;

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/a...jacobbrady.jpg

Those same "what ifs" are used for gun legislation and by "anti's" in general.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

Dog fighting is all very sad. Many techniques used to keep it under the radar.

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Some interesting information in the article below, the conditions describing how they were found are horrific.

Apparently officials from the US SPCA examined the dogs back in Nov....I wonder why it's taken so long for the OSPCA to initiate action to euthanize them.

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On Nov. 15, officials from the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals came to Canada to evaluate the dogs' behaviour, according to the OSPCA's application.

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http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/ki...086/story.html

Mike, that was in Chatham-Kent, not Toronto. Another idiot was just arrested and more dogs seized in relation to the original investigation. It's still an active investigation. The OSPCA here had the dogs evaluated by the American branch, and their recommendations were to euthanize them. They can't do that without a court order as they still belong to the accused. They are seeking an order now. Personally, I would never trust one of these dogs !

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Those same "what ifs" are used for gun legislation and by "anti's" in general.

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You seem to be making the assumption that the OSPCA came to this decision lightly. As others have pointed out, they did not.

Another issue to consider is the ospca's obligation to protect their workers. Under the occupational health and safety act they are legally required to protect their workers. In doing so these dogs probably have very poor quality of life at the shelter. Staff are probably kept from them.
HD

some updated info on this story;

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/animal-rig...906.html?nhp=1

I think we just give in and hand these sweet dogs back to PETA and a at least a couple to Don Cherry. How can anyone believe you can take natural instinct out of a killer. Find me a Hound that doesn't use his nose after 100 years. No chance around my kids, I do feel for the animals as it's not there fault.

As a dog owner I find this really disturbing. I don't really know what the right thing to do is regarding these dogs. My brother owned an Akita & it was a sweet loving dog & great with people. One day it snapped & attacked & killed a small dog right in front of the small dog's owners. My brother decided to put the dog down for safety reasons. It still bothers him to this day & he get's very emotional when he thinks about it. I am glad my lab doesn't have these issues because I would have a really hard time putting her down if she did the same thing.

Belleriver - every day humane society / ospca puts down dogs that they can't adopt out. It's a reality, whether or not people like to acknowledge it. Instead of trying to recycle/adopt these damaged dogs, why not put them down and adopt out the dogs there are a high chance of success with.

"Ontario SPCA Euthanasia Policy: The Ontario SPCA takes the issue of euthanasia very seriously. It is only done when there is no other humane option available. Reasons the Ontario SPCA euthanizes include: terminal illness or injury where there is no possibility of recovery, behavioural problems that pose a threat to other animals or humans, stray or feral overpopulation, disease transmission, and old age where the quality of life is impaired by major loss of functions. Sadly, in some cases animals may be euthanized due to shelter overcrowding. Overcrowding threatens the lives of all the animals in our care due to stress, weakened immune systems and increased risk of disease transmission. This requires the Society to make difficult decisions about euthanasia based on health, physical, emotional and psychological suffering, and the best interests of the hundreds of animals receiving lifesaving care in a single facility. "

As a dog owner, I don't find it disgusting at all. There are just dogs, not human being, and if there is a slight chance they might be dangerous for us, human being, the right thing to do it's to get ride of them.
Sad but true, IMO.

I understand these dogs have to be put down. What is really disturbing is the idiots that abused these dogs & had the dog fighting ring 40 min from my home. In this case I really hope what comes around goes around if they do some jail time...

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I understand these dogs have to be put down. What is really disturbing is the idiots that abused these dogs & had the dog fighting ring 40 min from my home. In this case I really hope what comes around goes around if they do some jail time...

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100% with you on that one!

Perhaps let the dogs chew on them for the last meal.

Some developments in the story :

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The owners of 21 alleged fighting dogs believe they have found a solution to save the animals from a potential death sentence.


Ken Marley, who represents three people accused of running a dogfighting ring near Chatham, Ont., said his clients have agreed in principle to transfer ownership of the dogs to a rescue organization north of Toronto.

“As an interim measure at least, my clients would prefer to see the dogs saved and adopted as opposed to being put down,” Marley said.
Several lawyers representing three animal rights and rescue organizations attended court Thursday in Chatham, Ont., in an effort to intervene in an application by the Ontario Society for the Prevention and Cruelty to Animals to destroy 21 dogs it seized from an alleged dogfighting ring last October.

The court appearance was put over to March 18, and that is only to set another date to hear the society’s application. Elizabeth Quinto, who represents Bullies in Need, has already filed a motion to intervene with the court.

The OSPCA seized 31 dogs on Oct. 15, 2015, and has already euthanized three of them for medical reasons. The society had members of the American SPCA evaluate the dogs behaviourally and they concluded that 21 of them, all deemed pit bulls, are a menace to society and cannot be rehabilitated.

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While the dogs are currently in the OSPCA's custody at an undisclosed location somewhere in Ontario, the animals remain the property of Marley's clients. But they've agreed to transfer ownership to Dog Tales, an opulent animal sanctuary in King City, Ont., owned by one of Canada's richest families.

Because the dogs have been deemed pit bulls by the OSPCA, there is an added complication because pit bulls are banned in the province. Only a pound can take in pit bull-type dogs and Dog Tales is not a pound.
Nunziata said the sanctuary is applying to the local municipality in an effort to get that designation.
Brian Shiller, who represents the OSPCA, said it doesn't matter who owns the dogs.
"When a dog is bred to fight, it's very dangerous to have them out there," Shiller said.
"What if the OSPCA acquiesces and says they can all be rehabilitated and then one dog goes to a family and rips into a five-year-old? We can't take that risk."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...eath-1.3484735

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Terry made a great point on the C-246 thread about the numerous dogs waiting for homes without benefit of high-profile activists pushing to save them simply because of their breed. And further to his point, just who are these Dog Tales folks?

Well, they're people who have spent over a million bucks creating a doggie resort for rescue dogs. Well-meaning neurotics, in other words.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014...s_in_need.html