Ontario Hydro Sunshine List

[IMG]tmtb://tmtoolbar/en-us/SRResource/webicon_green.png[/IMG][COLOR=#1155cc]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-sunshine-list-1.3505138?cmp=rss&cid=news-digests-canada-and-world-evening
Scroll down the page.
Click on Department
Select Hydro One and Ontario Power Generation
Select Order results by and click Salary Paid.
You will see that there are 153 pages of people listed. Since there
are 50 names per page, that's over 7600 people between the two Hydro
divisions alone that made over $100,000.00 per year.
First on the list made $1,528,933.36 in salary. Then when you click on
the (i) beside that you'll see he also made another $66,377.26 in
benefits.
Add in the other 7600 people and it's no wonder the Hydro bills are so
high.:angry:

Get use to it Hydro will continue to climb.

The sunshine list is way outdated. If you think that making 100 grand a year is not reasonable then maybe your being under payed! This is 2016 people. This list includes many hrs of over time that is worked. I agree about the group paid in the $200 + and no one is worth a million but seriously 100 grand is not over paid for a skilled job. If you don't make that much then why not? Did you not go thru school and get an education? Did you just settle for a low income job? Last I checked, most of us have the ability to wake up in the morning and take life by the horns and run with it. I sacrificed years ago and went to night school while working full time and 2 kids at home and made a change so most of you can also.
Time to wake up and adjust this list

I agree with gooseman. If the Sunshine List were updated to reflect inflation it would be around $140 000 in 2016.

I think a tech guy hanging from a pole today restoring power to the 90,000 homes that are down deserves to be on the list. It's the layers of paper pushers that are the problem. Same goes with the police. They have to wear body armour and carry guns for a reason, don't begrudge them making the list at all. Again that organization is full of paper pushers that are probably redundant. It's rarely the front line people that are the issue.

19,623 people, is the number who would be on the sunshine list, if it the original $100,000 threshold set in 1996 had been adjusted to inflation. $146.774 is the value of $100,000 in 1996 today, adjusted for inflation.

I think the list just pisses people off so they can jump on Civil Servants. It really serves no other purpose. Lets have a Sunshine List for private sector. I think you'd be shocked at what your neighbour is making. Do away with the List I don't need the anxiety it causes.

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Originally Posted by gooseman

The sunshine list is way outdated. If you think that making 100 grand a year is not reasonable then maybe your being under payed! This is 2016 people. This list includes many hrs of over time that is worked. I agree about the group paid in the $200 + and no one is worth a million but seriously 100 grand is not over paid for a skilled job. If you don't make that much then why not? Did you not go thru school and get an education? Did you just settle for a low income job? Last I checked, most of us have the ability to wake up in the morning and take life by the horns and run with it. I sacrificed years ago and went to night school while working full time and 2 kids at home and made a change so most of you can also.
Time to wake up and adjust this list

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Well at 74 plus years of age , I don't think I am going that route.

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Originally Posted by gooseman

The sunshine list is way outdated. If you think that making 100 grand a year is not reasonable then maybe your being under payed! This is 2016 people. This list includes many hrs of over time that is worked. I agree about the group paid in the $200 + and no one is worth a million but seriously 100 grand is not over paid for a skilled job. If you don't make that much then why not? Did you not go thru school and get an education? Did you just settle for a low income job? Last I checked, most of us have the ability to wake up in the morning and take life by the horns and run with it. I sacrificed years ago and went to night school while working full time and 2 kids at home and made a change so most of you can also.
Time to wake up and adjust this list

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Curious Gooseman, how many people do you think actually make 100k?
Do you know what the median duo income is these days? well I'll tell you. For every family (you know, lets stress the word DUO) that grosses $1 more 75,000....theres another family under $75,000.
So when 1 person makes 100,000...Well simple math should tell you that only a fairly small percentage of the population earns 100k.

I can rhyme off a bunch of professional careers, that require University degrees and continuing Ed that don't pay 100k. God those statements "get an education"....

In fact, Ms Wynne defines "rich" as 150,000k...food for thought.

While I personally do agree the magic threshold isn't what it used to be. 100k today isn't what 100k was back in the mid 90s.
If a person chooses to fixate on the dollar amount of that doesn't say much.
If a person instead looks at the growth (numbers of people on it) well that shows something.
7% this year
11% in 2015
90% since the crap hit the fan in 2008. How many tax payers lost jobs? hundreds of thousands. How many people lost jobs, found jobs but lower paying jobs..Maybe COs who lost a decent paying 60k year job, but now makes 50k? hundreds of thousands....

Perhaps if people who have it relatively good, (see those on the list, all 120,000 of them) cared less about themselves and more about those in or around the medians and averages...........The crooks and idiots in QP who can't do anything right, who are killing people who don't make 100k, and much less, would have been gone a long time ago.

See also the province having no money. Having to sell crown assets for things that are supposed to help the peons like infrastructure...You know, like maybe those uneducated, lazy people putting in roads....and more???


See also the province being in debt up to its eyeballs. And why? Well certainly one reason, not the only is
$11,000,000,000 paying for 120,000 when the province takes in 120b, of which 55% goes to total Salaries/Benefits

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Originally Posted by DanO

I think the list just pisses people off so they can jump on Civil Servants. It really serves no other purpose. Lets have a Sunshine List for private sector. I think you'd be shocked at what your neighbour is making. Do away with the List I don't need the anxiety it causes.

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I know what all three of my neighbors are making, they are well under the "sunshine list" and working their butts off.

I know many many people making close or well over $100 grand a year most without a university education but a college education or less. Life is what you make of it . I also went to night school for many years worked full time raised a family of three children and sent them to private Christian school. I paid $10,000 a year tuition for my kids school as well as education tax. Some people set goals in life while many do not and cry the blues over and over. My wife and i made about $60,000 combined and made many sacrifices. I have had health challenges due to a horrific car accident that left me almost paralyzed ,broken neck in 5 vertebrae , nerve damage, body cast for 5 months, had to learn to read and write because of a brain injury. Every negative obstacle in life can become a positive to motivate oneself. I make a really good living but it definitely wasn't easy but well worth the journey. I wouldn't change a thing.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

I know what all three of my neighbors are making, they are well under the "sunshine list" and working their butts off.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

I know many many people making close or well over $100 grand a year most without a university education but a college education or less. Life is what you make of it . I also went to night school for many years worked full time raised a family of three children and sent them to private Christian school. I paid $10,000 a year tuition for my kids school as well as education tax. Some people set goals in life while many do not and cry the blues over and over. My wife and i made about $60,000 combined and made many sacrifices. I have had health challenges due to a horrific car accident that left me almost paralyzed ,broken neck in 5 vertebrae , nerve damage, body cast for 5 months, had to learn to read and write because of a brain injury. Every negative obstacle in life can become a positive to motivate oneself. I make a really good living but it definitely wasn't easy but well worth the journey. I wouldn't change a thing.

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Well said and done! I also sent my kids to private Christian school which as stated is out of pocket education but well worth the extra weekends i had to work. When i started in trade school i seen buddies making $15 hr and i was at $4.50 hr fast forward they didnt go to colledge and are lucky to make $15 hr i am way past that. They sat at home and had a few beers and partied all weekend while i studied and went to night and weekend classes. I left a job at OPG a few yrs ago my choice of not moving with gov doing away with coal burning. I found a private sector job making the same $ and never missed a week. If your not happy making less then do something avout beside !

Well lets see,
I make more than 100k and would be on the list, have for many years. In fact despite taking home 40% less these days,something we willingly did...you know given the times and knowing those less fortunate than us couldn't afford hits or to lose their jobs, than I did in 2008.

Id still be on the list.
So much for jealousy, envy, bellyaching, being unhappy with what I make..blah blah

Am a high school drop out, from a group home. Still don't have my grade 12. Though in the years since have spent years acquiring various qualifications and designations. So much for uneducated, blah blah

I am also one of the top professional photographers in Canada in my chosen niche. Aka I have a second career Im very successful at.
So much for the usual blah blah.
******

I suppose I might understand why some get bent when people look at the list and have things to say.
I suppose its just as easy to say..well they forget only a small percentage of the population makes that much
I suppose its just as easy to say..Well they forget that for many, life is considerably "harder" these days
I suppose its just as easy to say..well they forget one of the primary differences is tax dollars
I suppose its just as easy to say..they forget this admin isn't exactly well known for competent handling of those dollars. If they can't do much right, why would anyone magically think when it comes to compensation they are any better..Thats a huge leap of logic...

As it is, get an education (despite many fields that do require it and don't pay near 100k).
As it is, well if you don't earn 100k that person must be lazy
as it is, if you aren't "happy" do something about it.

It's funny, you can usually tell peoples fields by their defence of such things.
Despite having jack squat myself to be envious of, well I atlas have consistently stood up, fought for

those less fortunate....especially in this day and age.

If things were "booming", if there weren't so many god awful messes which includes area's within PS (say just healthcare and that hits many PS personal who don't have it so good either) well likely not such a big deal these days...

/looks around the province.

I know who Im standing up for and the crap in the province is enough to turn most peoples stomachs, or should be.

Some people will always hate the PS and the sunshine list. Why, they feel that the PS work for them, and therefore should not get more money than those who pay their wages . I feel the sunshine list should be base pay only, if you want to ,and can work overtime, that is something different all together.

Yellow Dog...your physio therapist? Make an average of around $45,000 to $50,000
http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/...st/Hourly_Rate

Dental hygienist, another job for the uneducated?
The same
http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/...st/Hourly_Rate

Another job for the unimportant and uneducated?
Biologist with the MNR. Even at $1,500 a week and 52 weeks thats a lot less than 100k
http://ca.indeed.com/cmp/Ministry-of...inkcompanyname

Seems that people might be forgetting there are many, within PS as well who..............

yeah 100k is not what it used to be. Its still a lot more than most, read that again...most... people make many of whom spend years in school acquiring degrees, or skills, designations......

And people seem to forget the state of things, whether thats the economy, jobs, or soaring Hydro, taxation, 300b debt (see SB taking 55% of the revenue) and what that is doing to every day people.

Edit add.
Forgot an important one.
Registered Nurses, about an average of 50-60k. Nah they don't spend time in school or acquiring skills, or have an unimportant job, and aren't getting hammered either.
http://www.livingin-canada.com/salar...ed-nurses.html

/looks around the province, the state of things, the state of healthcare...

JB , look at the dentists on that list, most making between 110 and 130 a year or TTC lawyers at 140? How does that compare outside the PS, a little light I think. There are TTC operators who earn what those lawyers earn, that's with copious overtime of course...... ps there are 1,330,000 PS workers in Ontario less than 10% are on that list.

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Originally Posted by gooseman

The sunshine list is way outdated. If you think that making 100 grand a year is not reasonable then maybe your being under payed! This is 2016 people. This list includes many hrs of over time that is worked. I agree about the group paid in the $200 + and no one is worth a million but seriously 100 grand is not over paid for a skilled job. If you don't make that much then why not? Did you not go thru school and get an education? Did you just settle for a low income job? Last I checked, most of us have the ability to wake up in the morning and take life by the horns and run with it. I sacrificed years ago and went to night school while working full time and 2 kids at home and made a change so most of you can also.
Time to wake up and adjust this list

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It all depends where you live, but in most place in Canada 100G is way above average so it's a pretty good pay check.
The average salary in Muskoka is around 25G, so it doesn't matter your education there is just not that many 100G+ job.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

JB , look at the dentists on that list, most making between 110 and 130 a year or TTC lawyers at 140? How does that compare outside the PS, a little light I think. There are TTC operators who earn what those lawyers earn, that's with copious overtime of course.

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True facts there !
Don't be so jealous of a bus driver that makes over a 100,000.
That includes all the overtime.
If you want to work 70 hours a week with split shifts and get abused by the public then go apply.
Fact is most people will complain about how much a bus driver makes but have never applied for the job.

A Dental Hygienist earns an average wage of C$35.08 per hour.
problems reading G or more "excuses"..Your one that usually spouts such things as "education", time in school. It took me all of a few minutes to find just a few professions who....dont have it so good. Little people getting squeezed, and they to.....

Dentist?
[Well lets see. Aside from all the time they spend in school. Most run small businesses, with that comes cost be it floor space, Hydro bills, be it equipment, be it employee's...And an awful lot of risk....Something most in private take, you? not so much..

Not as familiar with law practices, still feel fairly comfortable saying many who have private practises take big risk, those in public don't. Be that as it may, I suspect I know where your going with that. Find me any "topic" where people can't Cherry Pick things that don't fit. Given there are many studies that show it, over and over and over, and you have never shown any let alone consistently shown many that blow them away......

Not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China.
As I said, I know who Im tired...no sick of seeing being hammered, fighting for. You, not so much...Funny I thought you were the champion of the middle class and that includes "peons" within PS. Im fighting for them to (those who aren't so fortunate)..As Terry has said to you many times

You'll eat your own and its sad you don't see it, despite the gutting to the MNR, Healthcare (see Nurses) and more...EAs...And the actual services be it beds, lack of MRI equipment, wait times....more

Thats what you've never understood G.

People in private practice can refuse to work with, serve, and deal with those that are to much of a bother, the PS has to deal with those no one else wants to. Most lawyers by the numbers work in big firms with dozens and even hundreds of lawyers what's the risk to them? Like I said, there less than 10% of total PS on that list. I would hazard a guess that most earn a little over half of that.

lol, you really don't understand how the "real" world works. Heres a simple example (lets remember there always exceptions that can be cherry picked). For example, I could introduce you to my neighbour, the civil engineer who has worked both sides since leaving the forces and would have a lot to say about just that topic, let alone lazy people, corruption, and more on both sides. In private, you do that enough you lose clients............You think people in my industry can blow off rude, outright downright nasty, ugly, smelly, drunk members of the public? You think hot waitresses can be rude or blow off dirty old men, drunks like you and keep their jobs?

jeez G

SL there in I think lies the problem, or lack of perspective.
People see the $$ in the Golden TA and think everyone these days makes 100k, its the norm.

And do agree OT skews it...But that raises two points/questions
Most professions or many don't pay OT
Why is there so much.
Mismanagement, waste, and more.

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Originally Posted by JBen

lol, you really don't understand how the "real" world works. Heres a simple example (lets remember there always exceptions that can be cherry picked). For example, I could introduce you to my neighbour, the civil engineer who has worked both sides since leaving the forces and would have a lot to say about just that topic, let alone lazy people, corruption, and more on both sides. In private, you do that enough you lose clients............You think people in my industry can blow off rude, outright downright nasty, ugly, smelly, drunk members of the public? You think hot waitresses can be rude or blow off dirty old men, drunks like you and keep their jobs?

jeez G

SL there in I think lies the problem, or lack of perspective.
People see the $$ in the Golden TA and think everyone these days makes 100k, its the norm.

And do agree OT skews it...But that raises two points/questions
Most professions or many don't pay OT
Why is there so much.
Mismanagement, waste, and more.

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Not paying OT is illegal !
It is a legal requirement under the ESA.
Paying overtime is actually mutually beneficial to the worker and the company as it is cheaper to pay OT than hire another body.

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Originally Posted by JBen

lol, you really don't understand how the "real" world works. Heres a simple example (lets remember there always exceptions that can be cherry picked). For example, I could introduce you to my neighbour, the civil engineer who has worked both sides since leaving the forces and would have a lot to say about just that topic, let alone lazy people, corruption, and more on both sides. In private, you do that enough you lose clients............You think people in my industry can blow off rude, outright downright nasty, ugly, smelly, drunk members of the public? You think hot waitresses can be rude or blow off dirty old men, drunks like you and keep their jobs?

jeez G

SL there in I think lies the problem, or lack of perspective.
People see the $$ in the Golden TA and think everyone these days makes 100k, its the norm.

And do agree OT skews it...But that raises two points/questions
Most professions or many don't pay OT
Why is there so much.
Mismanagement, waste, and more.

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JB ...I take offence with, ' drunks like you' , I don't drink, even if I did that is a low blow.

No it's not :). It depends is the best we can say/answer. I haven't received a penny in OT since around 1993. Lots and lots of professions, professionals don't receive it.

There are those arguments, but is "the company" more efficient?
How effective are the employee's? lots of scientific studies that show productivity drops of the cliff after about 50hrs. If the department, or "company" is understaffed and spread thin are they serving their clients well? (see Nursing all kinds of OT there these days, and Healthcare)...Why are they understaffed and spread thin? Because cost (overhead) are too high, there or another department? There's waste or mismanagement and The "market" can only bear what it can bear.

Oops thats a "sorry" G, I meant to include a winky

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Originally Posted by JBen

Yellow Dog...your physio therapist? Make an average of around $45,000 to $50,000
http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/...st/Hourly_Rate

Dental hygienist, another job for the uneducated?
The same
http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/...st/Hourly_Rate

Another job for the unimportant and uneducated?
Biologist with the MNR. Even at $1,500 a week and 52 weeks thats a lot less than 100k
http://ca.indeed.com/cmp/Ministry-of...inkcompanyname

Seems that people might be forgetting there are many, within PS as well who..............

yeah 100k is not what it used to be. Its still a lot more than most, read that again...most... people make many of whom spend years in school acquiring degrees, or skills, designations......

And people seem to forget the state of things, whether thats the economy, jobs, or soaring Hydro, taxation, 300b debt (see SB taking 55% of the revenue) and what that is doing to every day people.

Edit add.
Forgot an important one.
Registered Nurses, about an average of 50-60k. Nah they don't spend time in school or acquiring skills, or have an unimportant job, and aren't getting hammered either.
http://www.livingin-canada.com/salar...ed-nurses.html

/looks around the province, the state of things, the state of healthcare...

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Yes some physio therapist do make an average of $45 to $50,000 and I know a few that make much more than that &75,000 to $100,000 owning and running their own clinic.

Sister in-law Dental hygienist $75,000 range works the hours she wants to work. Hates her job and considers it to be a mouth janitor. Would sooner do something else more meaningful for much less money. Seriously going back to school at age 48 years of age for a career that pays much less.

My first cousin was a dentist for almost 25 years sold his practice at age 57 because he also hated his career making around $150,000 plus a year and started another career making around $50,000.

I know a farmer who was a music teacher ($80,000), and retired from teaching at age 40 years of age and went back to his first love Agriculture. He now currently farms over 10,000 acres half in another country. His wage is huge ! Self made business man.

Many people have made decisions on careers that pay much less and are happy. Some have made big money and want something meaningful or to make a difference and change careers with much less pay half way through life.

Canadians have no one to blame but themselves when they vote in political parties that waste tax payers dollars and make deals with the devil. Don't blame the hard working PS that works for the taxpayer because not all are bad apples but some are. I feel I am making a difference as a PS servant and i know many more PS that work very hard as well . Do I believe some PS servants make too much money...absolutely. I know a few people in the banking industry as traders that make stupid amounts of money as well. They are by no means any smarter than most of the people i know and make well over $175,000 a year.
Do I believe we need some balance ..yes of course. JBen what would your recipe for change be to make it right . It's really easy to post evidence but most people do nothing to change the problem. I am making change from the inside of PS...what about you ?

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Sister in-law Dental hygienist $75,000 range works the hours she wants to work. Hates her job and considers it to be a mouth janitor. Would sooner do something else more meaningful for much less money. Seriously going back to school at age 48 years of age for a career that pays much less

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Many people have made decisions on careers that pay much less and are happy. Some have made big money and want something meaningful or to make a difference and change careers with much less pay half way through life.

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JBen what would your recipe for change be to make it right . It's really easy to post evidence but most people do nothing to change the problem. I am making change from the inside of PS...what about you ?

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Cherry picked for ease of replying, but first going to say agree.

1) tell her to.
2) Yep, and am doing the same myself. Very soon
3) Lots. For starters I always vote.
Two I will express thoughts without fear of the hate Ill receive (see here :) ), especially when things are pretty clear. Many think I hate PS, or am envious or other. Nope not at all. I hate seeing people who don't have "so good" (note the quotes) getting bent, paying prices.

Recall what we do, that I am a liscenced advisor (although its not what I do day to day), tax planning, retirement planning, money management. We see the people who come in off the street, normal people living pay check to pay check, see how much they pay in taxes, both direct and indirect.....Im talking about families (duo income) who are around the means, averages, and above....but not "well off"..Say for arguments sake above 80k single. And that includes people in PS. Its killing them.

3) I am somewhat active, not as much these days. A number of friends have said I should run...Lol I laugh that off, Im too honest, and don't have a political bone in my body.

4) Get rid of this god awful administration. Is it a risk "Hudak" could come in swinging a heavy axe? Yup. We'd be better off today thats for sure. But lets say "he" is the second coming of Mike Harris...He'd be gone fast, and wouldn't do permanent, lasting damage unlike this admin has...Does anyone think for 1 second, that 300b debt will ever get paid down? The GEA and Hydro now? When we have money, when things are better for the peons they spend, helps everyone, and it makes fixing things easy. So even if he had cut too deep somewhere......

5) Start you know, finding savings and yes that will mean some cuts, it has to. The question is where.....Well if PS is like most areas of life, they might be top heavy......

DBPs?
Change them to DCPs like most of the world
Look or at the least consider that for many who are pretty well off "compared" to other people. Well maybe once a person hits a certain level maybe 100k, they can afford to fund it themselves or more of it. Hydro employees only fund 30% of their and they are rich.

Teachers? Do we want to keep classes at 20
Well even my teaching friends most think at the top end they could get less, and use the money to
A) Give EAs who can't get the time of day raises, hire a few more
B) Hire the many young teachers who end up on contract for years....
Just examples, doesn't mean Im "sold"

"overtime" ???? Too funny.

I keep seeing people referring to OT or overtime, are these the same thing? What exactly is that? My salary doesn't seem to change whether I only put in 40 hours a week, or 60. Whether I go to the plant and work 8 to 5 or leave my home at 4:30 in the morning to catch an early morning flight and don't get back home until close to midnight, my pay doesn't change.

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Originally Posted by PaulR

I keep seeing people referring to OT or overtime, are these the same thing? What exactly is that? My salary doesn't seem to change whether I only put in 40 hours a week, or 60. Whether I go to the plant and work 8 to 5 or leave my home at 4:30 in the morning to catch an early morning flight and don't get back home until close to midnight, my pay doesn't change.

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My salary as well PaulR. I am PS and put in more than 40 hrs a week ,work through my lunch most days and sometimes have time to crab a coffee. No overtime pay for me.lol

I notice how JB slips right over the 'less than 10 percent PS on the sunshine list I guess its not condusive to his constant PS rant.
As far as I'm concerned dealing with the public on a daily basis--they earn every cent they make plus their pension.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

My salary as well PaulR. I am PS and put in more than 40 hrs a week ,work through my lunch most days and sometimes have time to crab a coffee. No overtime pay for me.lol

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Originally Posted by PaulR

I keep seeing people referring to OT or overtime, are these the same thing? What exactly is that? My salary doesn't seem to change whether I only put in 40 hours a week, or 60. Whether I go to the plant and work 8 to 5 or leave my home at 4:30 in the morning to catch an early morning flight and don't get back home until close to midnight, my pay doesn't change.

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Some people still work at plants that don't give vacation as regulated under the ESA and are not compliant to OHSA.
Should we all go back to working that way as well ?
No different than being forced to work hours for free.
If you don't feel your being forced to work them, then your volunteering to do it.
That's fine if you want to volunteer hours but let's not expect others to do it.
That is against the law and a race to the bottom.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As a self employed carpenter I have to deal with public the same as anyone else ps or not

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Some people still work at plants that don't give vacation as regulated under the ESA and are not compliant to OHSA.
Should we all go back to working that way as well ?
No different than being forced to work hours for free.
If you don't feel your being forced to work them, then your volunteering to do it.
That's fine if you want to volunteer hours but let's not expect others to do it.
That is against the law and a race to the bottom.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Oh I am not complaining I enjoy my work way too much and get caught up in it. When I had a landscaping business i worked from 7:00am to 9:00pm in the evening most days.

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Some people still work at plants that don't give vacation as regulated under the ESA and are not compliant to OHSA.
Should we all go back to working that way as well ?
No different than being forced to work hours for free.
If you don't feel your being forced to work them, then your volunteering to do it.
That's fine if you want to volunteer hours but let's not expect others to do it.
That is against the law and a race to the bottom.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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ESA ??? Electrical Safety Authority ?

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

ESA ??? Electrical Safety Authority ?

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Employment Standard Act


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

And I seem to notice you have problems with reading basic English Sawbill. Often put words in people mouths, but never man enough to own them, say oops my bad.not sure how you were raised but...

See how I immediately sad "sorry" to Gord for simply forgetting the wonky....

My "rant" if you will should by now be clear. This Admin, and the unions who care nothing about what things are doing to people. Simply themselves and their own power....and that includes the people in PS they are hurting. Oh have you also forgotten those times when Terry and others have said some things, I've pointed out Smokey.....or the many times I've directed some towards the gutting in the MNR, MoE, healthcare, now Nurses...

i thinkaybe more than anything you resent the "common sense", logic and almost irrefutable facts of the matter. They've done a Tonne of damage to this province , people, especially people who "don't have it so good" and yes, PS Unions have had a large role. Deal with it and the fact I won't "back down", know when to stand up and be counted. Deal with that to.

sarcasm on.
guess you learned the union ways well, they taught you well huh Sawbill. Isn't that how Unions usually try to handle things. Try to bully, scare people from saying boo about it?
/off

And lastly Sawbill, for a "moderater" you sure do seem to step over the lines a lot. Have you forgotten how to read the forum rules to? Rather than trying to make counter points, discuss the "topic", you, make it "personal". So oh so similar to Unions. ;)

After being a mod on here for I don't know how many years, if they want to can my it sure won't bother me for a second. I've had to bite my tongue for 30 plus years while dealing with the public and the day I retired I said I wouldn't tolerate it any longer. And I don't! I worked with these guys, saw dedication you wouldn't understand and now to listen to guys like you rattle on about over-paid PS blah blah, then yeah, I'll speak up.
And BTW, I can't stand unions.

Sawbill for gods sake. What makes you think, people are any different?
Please, find one example when some, start in on lazy public servants where I've agreed/joined in. Usually I'll step in......

I wouldn't understand dedication? That's a stretch given..........Are you saying people who are sick of things aren't dedicated? Don't understand it..

"the public" are tax payers. And how those tax dollars get used, they have every right to A) Question and B) have things to say when...C) If you don't like it

Well no-one to blame but this admin and your Unions.
I and a couple others warned "you" years ago the sentiment would get worse, the vitriol worse and more (backlash). There are reasons why people in PS are finding themselves the targets...Dont blame the public who...blame those who....caused it,created it, care only about their fiefdoms, and ultimately put their people directly in the crosshairs. While I don't agree with Smokeys "solutions", (though do agree there are areas where we need to be hiring more....but how. How when the province is tapped, and people are getting pummelled) he at least did start to see what was coming and levelled a blast at the rest of PS.
You've sold your souls, sold us out.

People are getting pummelled, people are "pissed". Its no different than the mid 90s when people were screaming about MH. Well there is one difference.

Re SS list.
Have "argued" for years not to look at the numbers, but rather the growth..........


And I know you don't like the Unions either, have read enough post from you on the subjects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaycee

[IMG]tmtb://tmtoolbar/en-us/SRResource/webicon_green.png[/IMG][COLOR=#1155cc]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-sunshine-list-1.3505138?cmp=rss&cid=news-digests-canada-and-world-evening
Scroll down the page.
Click on Department
Select Hydro One and Ontario Power Generation
Select Order results by and click Salary Paid.
You will see that there are 153 pages of people listed. Since there
are 50 names per page, that's over 7600 people between the two Hydro
divisions alone that made over $100,000.00 per year.
First on the list made $1,528,933.36 in salary. Then when you click on
the (i) beside that you'll see he also made another $66,377.26 in
benefits.
Add in the other 7600 people and it's no wonder the Hydro bills are so
high.:angry:

---

It has nothing to do with Wynn forcing them to generate, but fines them as they do. That's right. Rather than getting paid 90+% of the time they've got to produce but get charged 150+$ per kw/h just to dump it off. On top of that she charges a tax on water each and every time it's run through a dam. Even if it's a series of dams 50 feet apart. As she gives farmers 50 G a year just to have a wind abortion. No that wouldn't effect price. Those are high salaries. Way too high, however. Calc all the factors

Date stamp Oct 2015
http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspa...k-to-some.html
Some should take note of Smokeys comments. :)

Funny, there are whole lot of people in Hyrdo 1 who while many things are out of their control, they also screwed up things themselves.
Smart Meters
Over billing
And yet get paid huge, especially when Pensions/benefits are factored in.
In the "real" world a lot of heads would roll, for so much incompetence.
*****

Date stamp July 2015

Quote:

---

The Ontario government offered the generous deal to the Power Workers’ Union in the spring in a bid to buy labour peace before the impending privatization of the utility.

---

Quote:

---

Hydro One employees will get shares equivalent to 2.7 per cent of their salaries annually for 12 years, plus a 3-per-cent raise over three years and payouts equal to 3 per cent of their salaries.

---

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle25334024/


Holy crap batman, talk about golden handshakes given to people who have it very good, when times are tough and the poor working stiffs who can't find 2 nickels for their own futures....and why? See their tax returns.

Nah, the collective of people pulling the strings at QP. Those same people who can't do anything right, those same people who not only can't manage money, the tax payers money, often in their own defence when grilled by inquiries, the auditor general. "what went wrong" and can only answer

"Don't know"

Why do people automatically assume they would be any better at managing payroll, overhead, and more.

I get it, we in "banking" to are often tarred and feathered, targets of vitriol and more. We blame ourselves though.

Between all your toys. Ya toy type utilities. I mean phone, cell phone, TV, cable/dish, Net data plan all in what You pay? Probably double your hydro bill if you HONESTLY calculate it. Which of them can keep an resperator in a hospital running or heat your house?

ok. Cell phone/tv and internet for two of us. Usually $230.
I would argue these days Cell Phones and Internet aren't toys though. At the every least most people need both for work. Many need Cell Phones to stay in touch with their kids, and more.....Many kids these days need Cell Phones to find work/submit applications ( I know mine has submitted hundreds electronically).

Hydro bill, average more. Some months it works out to $200/month or $400ish. My last Hydro bill?
$650 or $325/month.

How many factories have closed due to rising cost? How many small businesses?

Luckily for me, I am far better off than most.

Not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China.
Some claim theres no waste in PS, theres no people getting compensated tons and tons. And whenever these topics come up, anyone who dares mention certain words...........

You gotta be heating on that too and a substantial house?

I budget $100/month for Nat Gas. This month the bill was $52.
I don't call a 1,500 sq foot bungalow Substantial :) Some might.
****

Again, not sure what "this" (although I do know/understand what your driving at) has to do with the price of tea in China. :)

Lets use a mythical, typical (based on averages and means because thats all we can really "use") family of four.
Last time I checked. They have to eat (stoves and ovens are high consumption appliances). They have to do laundry another high consumption draw. Some might say, well they should hang their clothes in the back yard. If they are a hard working couple with kids ( Public Servants or private)....... the mean says they take home $75,000.

Mortgage: Lets say its reasonable, $1,000 month or $12,000/year. For the record thats a $200,000 mortgage (not at all unreasonable) at 2.5% over 30 years.
Land Taxes: Mine are $4,700 /year, again really a sort of moderate place.In fact smaller than what many consider starter family homes (1800sq feet)
Hydro: $3,600 year (average of $300/month)
Water and Gas: $1,800/year or about $150/month (A family of four, especially kids who shower, laundry, flush toilets...) should be higher.
Food? Im not sure what an average family of four might need for food budgets these days. Wild guess $200/week or $10,400 year. They do have to cook and eat.
Gas? I put on more mileage than what statistics say is the norm. My budget (only 1 person/1 vehicle) is $3,600/year. Am sure a family of four it's higher.
House/Car insurance: $240 month or roughly $5,200 year (just 1 car)

Lets add that up.
Roughly, give or take and rounding

$40,000

Taxes and others.
Well you get the picture. It ain't pretty for most.

Is it ok, are they allowed to live a little because after taxes...Well I can do that to. Hopefully I don't have to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

I budget $100/month for Nat Gas. This month the bill was $52.
I don't call a 1,500 sq foot bungalow Substantial :) Some might.
****

Again, not sure what "this" (although I do know/understand what your driving at) has to do with the price of tea in China. :)

Lets use a mythical, typical (based on averages and means because thats all we can really "use") family of four.
Last time I checked. They have to eat (stoves and ovens are high consumption appliances). They have to do laundry another high consumption draw. Some might say, well they should hang their clothes in the back yard. If they are a hard working couple with kids ( Public Servants or private)....... the mean says they take home $75,000.

Mortgage: Lets say its reasonable, $1,000 month or $12,000/year. For the record thats a $200,000 mortgage (not at all unreasonable) at 2.5% over 30 years.
Land Taxes: Mine are $4,700 /year, again really a sort of moderate place.In fact smaller than what many consider starter family homes (1800sq feet)
Hydro: $3,600 year (average of $300/month)
Water and Gas: $1,800/year or about $150/month (A family of four, especially kids who shower, laundry, flush toilets...) should be higher.
Food? Im not sure what an average family of four might need for food budgets these days. Wild guess $200/week or $10,400 year. They do have to cook and eat.
Gas? I put on more mileage than what statistics say is the norm. My budget (only 1 person/1 vehicle) is $3,600/year. Am sure a family of four it's higher.
House/Car insurance: $240 month or roughly $5,200 year (just 1 car)

Lets add that up.
Roughly, give or take and rounding

$40,000

Taxes and others.
Well you get the picture. It ain't pretty for most.

Is it ok, are they allowed to live a little because after taxes...Well I can do that to. Hopefully I don't have to.

---

You folk say you got the large plentiful urban deer. Warmer winters etc. And I know you do but good lord. I own a house that's 22 yrs old on 4.5 acres. I own a 200 acre prop with my cabin (most would consider a house) that's 2700 total tax. I run this house 24/7. I have a 1400 ft shop with all 120V and 240V welders hoists etc, I average 170 hydro a month. Between a 014 loaded equinox, a 30,000 show truck. legal rail car boat and four wheeler I pay around 2100 insurance. That's fully loaded. I could go on. Dude You gotta shop around. Your poor bung hole is taking a wrenching. I thought rural was always more expensive.......WHEW

I envy you standup.

just up the road from me in a town called Brooklin. Small townhouses and links are selling for 400,000. Some 500,000. Take that same sorta typical, average family. Maybe mom is a teacher that earns 50-60k, dad works for the City of Toronto in some capacity that also pays 50k.

well dad likely takes the Go Train into the city. $270 a month. Anothetr 3G a year.
Why did they move so far away?
well the cost of houses in TO are much higher pound for Pound.
*********

rentals
As a financial advisor I'd ask them why they want to rent. The same kind of place, with enough room for a growing family. Give or take 1,800-2,200 month before utilities. Basement apparents in decent neiborhoods? 1,000 to 1300 month.

so your choice is
1800/month to rent a small house
1200 month to rent a basement
1000 month to own

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stragglelake

Some people still work at plants that don't give vacation as regulated under the ESA and are not compliant to OHSA.
Should we all go back to working that way as well ?
No different than being forced to work hours for free.
If you don't feel your being forced to work them, then your volunteering to do it.
That's fine if you want to volunteer hours but let's not expect others to do it.
That is against the law and a race to the bottom.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

---

My trade was controlled by the Ministry of Skills Development in the past, now regulated under the College of Trades. Their position is that I should be required to join a union, pay union dues, and they should determine how much I should make. Fortunately, in my position, I no longer require any sort of licencing, so they have no control over me or my wages.
If you take a look at who now runs the show you will see that it is overrun by high-ranking union officials along with some from the business sector. This enables them to negotiate between themselves to decide how to control my life, and I won't stand for that.
For those that are so pro union, consider this. The means of production are controlled my one section of big business, the labour force to produce the products is owned and controlled by another section of big business, and that is called "The Union".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaulR

My trade was controlled by the Ministry of Skills Development in the past, now regulated under the College of Trades. Their position is that I should be required to join a union, pay union dues, and they should determine how much I should make. Fortunately, in my position, I no longer require any sort of licencing, so they have no control over me or my wages.
If you take a look at who now runs the show you will see that it is overrun by high-ranking union officials along with some from the business sector. This enables them to negotiate between themselves to decide how to control my life, and I won't stand for that.
For those that are so pro union, consider this. The means of production are controlled my one section of big business, the labour force to produce the products is owned and controlled by another section of big business, and that is called "The Union".

---

I'm not sure what your trying to say or imply .
I never mentioned " union " once, ever.

This site makes me laugh, UNIONS, UNIONS, UNIONS wow have you ever once thought about corporate greed. The shareholders are not happy with profits the same as last year they want more an more doesn't matter who gets hurt or struggles on the ladder as long as they show record profits

Lol good lord. As I have said to Gord many times. They are all the same, jeebus.
Politicians, Unions, Corporate greed.....They are all greedy, all power hungry who care only about themselves. They don't give a rats backside about you or anyone else Gooseman.

You don't like people (us) or the public/media making noise about "you"? You say they are just lazy people who don't want to better their lives, find new jobs, moaners about green grass? What the heck do you think you and your Unions do every time you/they go on Strike.......See 30 years of crying about green grass in private.....See all the noise in the 90s when Harris was swinging an axe, Downloading onto municipalities...So as I said above
You can dish it (noise) but don't like it when the public is making lots of noise about Sunshine list?

PS (lol nice pun that) Gooseman.
Who do you think the shareholders are...
Who do you think owns oh so much
CPP
Omers
OTPP (more on this coming below)
More

"True Story"
The company I've given 20 hard years to is done, wiped out, seized by German authorities. For some things a few did in Germany between 2006-2010. Same thing hundreds of other banks did, with tax lawyer green lights. In 2012 a law was changed. Well you the public, have been screaming about corporate greed, abuses on Wall Street. They decided to make an example of a small bank, so you yes you could feel better about corporate greed.

200 people are out of work. A great many of those educated, hard working dedicated people who don't earn 100k, many don't earn 80k, and none of them have Pensions, may not even get severance packages. Many are going to have to go legal and thats going to take months, and even with favourable decisions, may only get pennies on the dollar.

Know who owns 29% of the company, sits on the board, green lighted the activity because it was profitable, green lighted the CEOs compensation package.

Ontario Teachers.

Be that as it may.
True Story #2
/points at multiple investigations into activity at QPs...how many heads have rolled?
/points at so much incompetence, abuses, more.
/points at the Unions who spend millions electing them, again and again and again despite so much

True Story #3
These people, thousands of them many of whom earn far more than 100k aren't even losing their jobs, aren't losing their 70% tax payer funded pensions>

Quote:

---

The Ontario government offered the generous deal to the Power Workers’ Union in the spring in a bid to buy labour peace before the impending privatization of the utility.

---

Quote:

---

Hydro One employees will get shares equivalent to 2.7 per cent of their salaries annually for 12 years, plus a 3-per-cent raise over three years and payouts equal to 3 per cent of their salaries.

---

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle25334024/

"perspective"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gooseman

This site makes me laugh, UNIONS, UNIONS, UNIONS wow have you ever once thought about corporate greed. The shareholders are not happy with profits the same as last year they want more an more doesn't matter who gets hurt or struggles on the ladder as long as they show record profits

---

Do you mean something like this....

TD CEO received 10-per-cent pay hike last year as bank cut hundreds of jobs
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle28849921/

And it's the public sector that's the problem?

Do you mean you couldn't take your own advice, and rather than fight with your employers leave PS every time a contract came up nd rather than looking at the greener grass, demanding more money, more benefits.

Leave and apply for work in private :) Aka if you don't like what your getting paid, find greener grass?
*******

Seems to me many at Hydro 1 were so unhappy about that prospect, they whined until they got
3% in stock, for 12 years
3% raises
3% lump sum
Compare that to say Nortel, people throughout Ontario these past 8 years, my company..
*****

Your a teacher aren't you Fatri?
Didn't you just whine loud and long for raises, for better benefits, keep tens of thousands of students out of school, refuse to do report cards, yet gain this past summer despite so much

So yup, you whined for more. meanwhile your EAs who have it nowhere near as good as you can't get the time of day, Nurses are being laid off and far more.

Just like TDs CEO. You took more, while those below you.........got laid off
Btw TD bank is huge and I do mean huge. Retail banking, Insurance, Mortgages, investment areas, foreign exchange areas, IT, accountants, risk management, and Im not even scratching the surface divisions in Ontario, all of Canada, the US, over sea's. It make running a province like running a lemonade stand by comparison.

Do you know off hand, those people being let go. What area they are in, maybe they are hemorrhaging money like stink. Maybe like the MNR and COs.....
But overall the banks done a good job.???

1) Far better a job than your company
2) I don't see TD banks clients getting crushed, and even if they are, they can bring their business elsewhere..

funny that.
:)

on the whole I do agree CEO compensations are too high, but your comparing apples to oranges really, you do no different and at the end of the day.

If we want to compare how well run TD Bank is, compared to the Province of Ont. Well stop while your behind

Cut jobs to Canadians, then bring in foreign workers to do job for less, only because they can't ship those jobs overseas for even MORE profits.

a few people doing something tax lawyers said is good, trying to make your pension more profitable, owned by another Pension who approved the CEOs compensation package, approved the activity. The "publics money"

so hundreds of innocent heads need to roll, who don't have pensions, out of work.

Atleast we in our business walk the talk. Yours and yours Unions
Not so much, in fact they stand in the way

/looks towards QP where no heads roll, where the abuses of the public money are mind boggling.

Suggest you to, stop while your behind

Hopefully, you can see.

this can continue forever.
When the public (tax payers) get irate about abuses at QP, or secret payments to Unions, or private meetings with Union heads while all around there are huge problems affecting everyone (referring to Ms Wynnes first day of office), when millions get spend influencing elections (the definition of corruption),

When a Sawbill (rightfully) "moans" (see quotations and understand why I've quoted that word) life for those within the MNR. When a teacher wants more money, or better benefits, or better working conditions....Well, just as many, many, many, many in "private" are now "moaning" about ....green grass or envy.....
/scuze me?

They are all the same, the politicians, the Unions and the "1%", the CEOs.

And its "us" who pay the prices.
Whether thats now thousands of RNs getting laid off, or hospitals hiring RPNs (scuze me, foreign workers) because they are cheaper. Or when a biologist gets laid of because the province has cut another 20million from the MNRs budget because the OPP deserved 8.5% raises, or "teachers" needed raises or ABCDEF...

Whether thats because service at hospitals is going in the tank (not enough Nurses), we pay prices.

and on and on and on.|
/points at people taking it on the chin, Hydro, job losses, taxes, more..

Meanwhile, there are serious problems in and at QP
Meanwhile, there are serious problems all over the place

What about aboriginals in Northern Ontario being sold into the sex trade?
What about ABCDEFG

And the 'cupboards" are bare, so much so, they have to sell off crown assets for 4billion. The cost of the SS list....12 billion and thats just the "SS list".

And you wonder why the public is growing angrier and angrier and angrier and angrier?
/points at Law enforcement personal found guilty of serious crimes, collecting $100,000 and more for years "on suspension", and Police Cheifs trying for years to change that.

Who stands in the way?
Of so much?
And how far back does it go?
Back to Bob Rae.