Printable View
I'm looking to start waterfowl hunting this season but have a question. I was reading the new 2016-17 regs and understand I need a hunting licence as well as a small game licence but it also says you must have "federal migratory game bird hunting permit and a wildlife habitat conservation stamp". You need 4 things to hunt ducks? Maybe I'm simple and not understanding it.
You need a hunters version of an outdoors card, this is essentially proof that you passed all the tests.
You need a small game license, I do not know why but you do.
You need a migratory bird license and conservation stamp, these are sold online or at the post office. The stamp is an amount of money specifically for conservation, you cannot buy one without the other, they are together when you buy the license.
The great part is that the migratory bird license has not gone up much over the years, it is federal so we have yet to screwed with that license. Migratory is the most cost effective license based on possession limits and hunting limits of the birds included.
I agree FOX, $19.60, get at any post office and provides 90% of outdoor experiences right now. Waiting for Sept 6
Thanks Fox and Line052, that cleared it up for me.
Love hunting Geese, I usually get more than enough to cover the cost of hunting.
Don't forget only Steel or Bismuth shotgun shells allowed for ducks and geese.
There are few other "NON-TOXIC" shells you can use, but the key is non-toxic. They even make polymer shot that is "heavier" then lead, Just not cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by line052
I know lead loads are not allowed and that steel or non toxic is what has to be used. I have been looking at all kinds in 3" length for ducks over decoys. Its just a matter of patterning on my end when I can get a chance to see what my gun and choke like best.Quote:
Originally Posted by line052
Just make sure you use a choke that is designed for steel shot, I don't know your experience level and I don't want to talk down or anything like that but I cannot stress enough to be sure that your choke is steel safe before shooting steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by matitude
Ducks over decoys #2-#4 shot that patterns well should work fine, #2 is you have the chance for geese coming in too.
I have a 3 pack of waterfowl chokes (close, mid, long range) from Trulock that are steel ratedQuote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Great questions and great answers. I was going to post the same question as some point. Thank you OP and the experts
Guns with removable chokes are generally safe for steel, anything over modified needs to be checked but what you have there will work well.Quote:
Originally Posted by matitude
Magnatude:
Your getting lots of great info, the guys here are good. Don't rule out 2 3/4 inch shells for decoying ducks/geese. Kent and even the Imperial stuff is quite good these days. Speed kills. My magic number in min 1450, perfer 1550 fps. My goto shell for geese is a 2 3/4, #1 @ 1550 fps, with a IC extended choke. For all my guns, it seems to pattern the best, approx 80-90% at 35 yds. Easier on the shoulder and a bit lighter on the pocket book.
Enjoy the season
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Since the migratory bird permit is federal the province needs their piece of the pie ;0)
Hypersonic is known to be tough on chokes though, stay away from anything over that 1550fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrat
Thanks for the advice I will look into both 2 3/4" as well as 3" shellsQuote:
Originally Posted by waterrat
I like using the 3.5 inch just because. Some people think they kick more but I don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matitude
And don't forget to pattern with the cyl, IC, and Modified chokes, the trulock chokes well let you shoot steel through very tight choke sizes but they may not be the best patterning.Quote:
Originally Posted by matitude
That is the tough part of matching chokes, and shot to your shotgun.
Even if you decide to use 3", pickup a box of 2 3/4" in a close in shot they are great to finish cripple without beating the tar out of you and the bird.
The water fowl license is good all across Canada. Wood is not considered small game,so you need a duck and goose ,license????
Quote:
Originally Posted by matitude
I use 2-3/4" shells in #3 steel for ducks and BB for geese in my 12 gauge. I like Kent and Challenger shells, there is no need to spend lots of money on shells. I bought the Challengers I have on sale at Cabela's for $11.99 last fall. They are normally $16.99 or close to that anyway. I have killed plenty of ducks and geese with them, no problems.
Thanks for that info, my browning shoots both 2 3/4" and 3" so I will be sure to pattern different shell sizes as well as shot size to see what preforms best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintax
Yes and no. I'd be the first to say you don't need to spend a lot however you do get what you pay for. There is no comparison in lethality between 2 3/4" Steel BB and 3" #2 heavy metal(tungsten matrix) for geese. If you keep your range under 30 yards and don't mind chasing cripples can go cheap with the steel. I prefer stone cold kills and a bit more range if they are not committing fully to the spread or at a second bird as they are leaving the decoys. My set up is 3" steel #1 or BB as a first short and the second/third shot heavy metal. Yes it pains me to shot the good stuff but I hate chasing cripples more. By planning ahead and shopping the sales can minimize expense. Sometimes you get lucky as last year through a menagerie of errors with basspro managed to walk away with a case of Heavy metal 3" BB for 10.00 a box.
Geese and ducks fall under the same 'migratory bird license' requirements. Every year they release the brochure for limits and restrictions, read up on them. You must be in possession of small game license to acquire the migratory bird license.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhorn
This is not true, anyone can buy a migratory game stamp. It is not a "hunting license" unless accompanied by a small game license.Quote:
Originally Posted by poltrojan
I whole hardly agree with this statement. I looked at the cost of a new decent 12 gauge in Semi. 800-2200 for a good one. I eventually learned that 3.5", 3" and 2 3/4" all kill ducks and geese..if you wait until they are in range. I ended up buying a 1960"s 2 3/4" Winchester 878 and save money on shells. The first season I duck hunted, my buddy and I blasted the air not understanding the new lead times of fast steel verses the lead we used to used to shoot 35 yrs ago. Once I figured out the lead times and LEARNED to wait until in "range" the size of shell did not matter anymore. Some older guns like the A5, 1100, 878 in semi can be bought between 300-500 privately with no tax, they are usually overbuilt and dead reliable as in the case of mine. Like anything else proper care and maintenance is required. I put over 500 rds thru my 878 last season with no issues.
3" in nice though, a Winchester 1300 3" is the fastest pump ever and can be had now for a very good price.Quote:
Originally Posted by line052
I don't have the money for gimmick ammo, shoot them at 30ft and they do not know if it is #4 steel at $15 a box or BB platinum ammo at $12 a shot. I have killed geese with 2 3/4" steel #2 and missed them with 3 1/2" T steel, both can work well and not so well.
There is an obvious energy difference between steel at 7.8 g/cc and lead (w antimony) at 11.1 g/cc but less of one between steel and Hevi-shot at 9.8 g/cc. Tungsten matrix is closest to lead at 10.8 g/cc and Federal Heavyweight exceed leads density at around 15 g/cc. Using a denser shot will let you carry more energy further from the muzzle so you are correct regarding killing power and lethal killing distance. Knowing your limits is one of the most important aspects to hunting. We all want to harvest game and minimize animal suffering.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
I know the limits of my ammunition so I shoot them when they are close and I don't take janky shots at birds I can see are too far away. I can say I have never had to chase a cripple, and I hope I never have to.
Hahahaha what a statement.................. you don't happen to be related to Jeff Bondar are you?????Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintax
You have obviously not waterfowl hunted much................EVERYONE has had to chase a cripple or finish a bird off and not because they are shooting too far.............. Bondar must have taught you to shoot just like him.........25/25 every time on the trap stand!!!!!!!
Don't get me wrong I agree with most of what your last post stated but that last sentence took it a little too far...........hahaha
I do not know who Jeff Bondar is. I suspect he was known to spin a tale or two based on your post. The content of my post is accurate. I have never had to chase a cripple. I guess I am just lucky, but as I said, I don't take janky shots either.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckslayer
Hahaha ok we will leave it at that.........god I love the internet!!!!!
With a gravimetric density of 7.86 grams per cubic centimeter (gms/cc), steel is the lightest of the bunch, followed by bismuth, at 9.60 gms/cc; Tungsten-Iron, at 10.30; Tungsten Matrix, at 10.60; lead, at 11.10; and, the real heavyweight in the ring, Hevi-Shot, at 12 gms/cc.Sep 28, 2010Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintax
I think some of your numbers may be a little off, also I waterfowl hunt a lot and am also an excellent shot (from many many years of practice at everything from skeet to trap to sporting clays and five stand). I've had to chase cripples and I do not personally know of one waterfowl hunter that has not and I hunt with some equal to or better than me?
Unless of course the dog or others in the blind are chasing them, that makes you a very wise man:)
I did a quick search on the internet so sources could vary. I think the idea still stands though.Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
I had to walk 10 feet to pickup a wood duck that was still alive once or twice. When I think of chasing a cripple I think of one that is still swimming along the surface of the water but unable to fly.
I suspect that I don't hunt waterfowl as often as others so perhaps it is the luck of a smaller sample size.
I think you are very confused as to what brand of shotgun you are using:confused: , Winchester did not ever make a model "878 " shot gun, an "878" is Made by Remington .Quote:
Originally Posted by line052
ha, ha, ha, ha,! we all remember Jeff, he is the guy that was also doing penetration tests on dead chickens , and constantly killing ducks and geese at outrageous distances!Quote:
Originally Posted by duckslayer
I suppose if that is the case, I should feel insulted by his statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Ok so as I suspected...............do you need both hands to count the amount of fowl you have ever killed or will one hand do???Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintax
Not sure why you are being so aggressive in trying to disprove my statement. As far as hands, I think I just need the one finger.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckslayer
Not being aggressive at all, just calling you out for making a ridiculous statement! Can't expect to make a statement like that and not have any blow back..............
LOL - Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintax
Critical posts and arm-chair CO's are probably the number one thing that makes people shy away from posting helpful comments and advice here.
not trying to add to the "aggression" but I would strongly advise against challenger shells for waterfowl. my friend and i split a flat of 3" #2 challengers a few seasons ago. we both multiple times centered patterns on a crippled duck within 30 yds, and the duck just kept swimming didnt really even flinch. i did kill a few with those shells, but when you have a duck sitting right in front of you at a known range, where its easy to see where your pattern went, and the duck keeps on swimming, there is something seriously wrong, and this happened many times. this may have been a bad batch, but it left a bad taste in my mouth for sure. it was like the shot didnt have any power.
i have yet to pattern waterfowl loads in my new gun, but i default to kent fasteel (3" #2 or bb). its kind of a middle of the road ammo for me, not too pricey but reliable enough.
i will try a variety of ammos this summer and see what works best with my new choke and gun.
just my thoughts.
No worries Bowj. We have all had our experiences with different ammunition and firearms. I have had success with Challenger is all I am saying. I've used plenty of Kent in my 20 ga SX3 to great effect as well. They make exceptional ammunition for the price point in my opinion,. I suppose the whole point of my post is that you do not need $30 boxes of shells with fancy shaped shot to kill fowl and that you don't necessarily need 3" or 3.5" either.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowj
I've had the same issues with blown patterns when using turkey loads. In one gun the load has a perfect pattern with a nice dense core; take the same load in a different gun and you might have a blown pattern.
I stand corrected. Remington 878 Automaster semi-automatic shotgun, got it That Hunting and Fishing Store here is Ottawa on consignment.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
I used Kent for the first time last year..it has a noticeable difference in punch then a similar shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowj
are we talking shells or bird season here? anyone got a link to the 2016-17 regs, I cant find them online somehow.
As always and forever to come the current year migratory season is not posted till August 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troutkiller
You always need to know what patterns well with your gun, challenger works well in my gun, as do cheap Winchester Super X, the worst patterning ammo so far has been 3.5in Black Cloud, I am happy that the cheap stuff patterns well and kills ducks and geese no problem.
I use the Winchester Super X as well, they seem to pattern well in my Mossy 535.
For Geese I use the 3.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
ok cool my buddy was over looking at the regs on his phone planning early goose, I assumed he had the new regs.
thanks finsfurfeathers
Just got my stamp and migratory license online. Thank you guys for the pointer. Can not wait