This is so sad.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/05/0...-fort-mcmurray
Printable View
This is so sad.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/05/0...-fort-mcmurray
I have a cousin in law out there. Last night when they got the evac notice, he and the two dogs (fortunately, my cousin and their son are here visiting) escaped. The gas station behind their house had blown up and temps were rising past 52 degrees. It is quite a chaotic scene.
Looked at the pics posted in the news and just awe struck by the devastation. I can't imagine the feeling that these people have loosing everything but what they could grab. Hope everyone manages to get to a safe spot and insurance and government agencies work with them to rebuild their lives.
Not to downplay the terrible devastation to these people affected, but I wonder if the RCMP will swoop in at some point and raid the unaffected homes that people have been evacuated from? You know, to rid them of those nasty firearms that may be left laying around?Quote:
Originally Posted by gooseman
I saw on a facebook link where the great and wondrous Dodeau was remembering "Star Wars Day" today and oh uh, uh the folks in Alberta.
https://www.facebook.com/75566193122...97916/?qsefr=1
Friends out there lost everything but the clothes they were wearing and a truck....now let's see how much money and help our own citizens get from Trudope !!!!!
I have a customer whose son is a firefighter on the Alberta Wildfire Crews. Remembering all those that are affected by this fire and all those that are helping out.
I was thinking the same thing about the rcmp. Extended family have left and made it safely to Edmonton so feeling relieved for them, but man what a horrific situation, lets hope there is help for our CANADIAN refugees!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
Some of the workers from here are home. They a e talking about driving out of town with the fire burning on both sides of the road, and unable to open the. Windows due to the smokes
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody1948
Latest sat imagery indicates fire almost surrounding Ft Mac South, from the South to NWest across river, up the West side of town and North East across River. Only the very North and from North Downtown to the North on East side of river unburned.
Amazing job for authorities to evac that many with one road and the thought in the back of their minds about their own homes and families. Kudos
His twee yesterday, was um rather lack lustre. Which for the shiny pony, who loves the lustre is telling.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
"Thought's with Fort Mac and remember to follow evacuation orders" Or something like that.
Yeah, thats our leader.
That's proof positive that if someone doesn't tell him what to say,he doesn't know whether his arse is punched or bored. Jysys,what a piece of work.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
He has to be the worst speaker I've seen in awhile ? I'm not ah professional speaker ah but it's no ah secret you loose ah the audience when ah it's ah not ah fluent ? Embarrassing to say the least !
The "ahs" are pauses so his brain can catch up to his mouth.........in ain't workin'......Quote:
Originally Posted by Exo200
Have been reading various things that started hitting the press yesterday, and theres more today ( old habits die hard I guess).
We are looking at a massive price tag, as is Alberta. Remind me what kind of shape ALTA is in........Remind me how much JT and his illustrious finance minister are already going into debt............
There are fears that if they don't put the breaks on it soon, it might spread to some of the oil sands projects. In which case the damage and losses could be catastrophic. Oil is already spiking today............
They are already predicting Insurance claims are going to be hundreds, hundreds of millions. If not 1 billion. If it spreads to any of the projects.....look out....
Suppose this is where we remind young JT and Ms Wynne before him and all those Liberals who love to spend and vote for it, this is but one reason why one shouldn't spend like mad.
Suppose this is where we remind Canada and JT, that when 1 young boy washed up on a beach he wanted to move mountains. Fast tracked 60,000 refugees and more.
90,000 Canadians who have fled a "war zone" and lost everything....And where its potentially threatening a lot more, including the economy.
Whole lot of feel good pressers and some feel good measures, when really he should be throwing everything we can at it. Stop it, before it gets worse and get those people home and rebuild. that would be expensive though.............
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...aging-infernos
JBen,Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
I heard on the radio that insurance companies aren't giving an estimate on the price tag as adjusters haven't hit the ground yet. However, a Bank of Canada person had named a very rough estimate of $9 Billion and that is probably very conservative. You have to think the entire population (80 000) have been evacuated. Right now, some residents have had their houses burn right down to the foundation while others will have massive smoke damage. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? Farmers will have lost crops and livestock. People aren't working and will need to be supported. Businesses may have to be rebuilt. Doing a quick calculation 80 000 people x $125 000 insurance claim/property (this is probably a low average) equals $10 billion. This isn't taking into account businesses which will need to be rebuilt or the fact the people displaced will need to be supported until their lives are rebuilt (you aren't going to be able to rebuild/repair everyone's houses all at once) or if the fire reaches the oil sands.
Right now, the right thing is to get everyone who needs evacuated, out. I know a lot of people went north and they could very well need to be moved if the wind shifts again. If Fort McMurray burns to the ground, so be it. Those are things. The people are the most important resource in Fort McMurray. Let's worry about them and not make this about politics. All of the federal parties have called cease fire over this for now. I think we need to do the same.
As for throwing everything we can at it, I believe the current conditions are such that fighting the fire is a losing battle. It has developed it's own winds and weather patterns, lighting is coming from the clouds it is creating (which no doubt will touch off other fires), the fire is in an urban center now (which has it's own difficulties) and the current weather conditions (spring, very little rain, etc) are allowing the main fire to continue burning. Chad Morrison of Alberta Forestry has said air tankers are not going to stop the fire and the fire will continue to burn through the dry conditions until there is significant rain. So no matter how much we throw at this fire, until Mother Nature decides to help us or it runs out of fuel, we are swimming upstream. This fire is out of control at this point which means no amount of human intervention is going to stop it. The most we can hope for is that the winds shift favourably to keep the fire movement in a better direction than the city so the firefighters (both municipal and the smoke jumpers who are helping the municipal firefighters) trying to protect what is left of Fort McMurray are safe and can save something of the city. At this stage (civilians have been evacuated), diverting every availalbe resource at this fire leaves other areas vulnerable. I have every confidence BC would help if that help didn't strain their own fire-fighting resources. Ontario is sending 100 firefighters to help. Would you send more if it meant someone a person on the boards (for example TurkeyRookie) could lose everything if a fire couldn't be contained up north? It is a tough decision to make about how much help to send.
Dyth
Are they doing all they can? Hard to say, certainly the main fire may be out of control. Preventing it (fire breaks and more) from spreading north of FM or to the oil sands? However the main point there you missed, is the "cost" and well, with Alberta already hurting having gone on a spending spree, and oil revenues.....Or just look here at home and what happens when you spend lots, and things go in the tank....
Likewise Federally, what with 130billion in promised spending. A 30 billion dollar deficit already in the books, Im guessing they are regretting blowing through the 7.5b surplus Harper left them....
Now this.
See also how its shut down the oil industry...and what that alone is doing to Canadas oil output/exports.
As many are now posting on Facebook.
They moved mountains to get refugees here, and threw 1.6billion at it very fast. While this doesn't tell the whole story and isn't accurate, thus far "matching Red Cross donations".
True the priority right "now" is the safety of people. The price tags come later..
Looks at Alberta before this.....what work are they going back to?
Looks at Ontario likewise in the crapper
Looks at the Federal budget
and what right now, before the total cost (including livestock and more) is remotely able to be tallied, is going to be one massive price tag.
Perspective
https://youtu.be/ICLPyhSdPlA
Its been said that the only thing that can stop this fire is rain and lots of it.
The latest, as of midnight. The animation that shows its spread is mind boggling.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle29930041/
And hope Im not misunderstood, but the response from Ottawa leaves me less than impressed.
~Fire could double in size over the weekend, officials say
- Canada will seek U.S. help if needed: minister
- "If needed"...Anyone with half a brain suspected/feared on Tuesday and knew on Wednesday this was going to be catastrophic...
Its miracle people got out without loss of life, that people didn't get trapped on gridlocked roads and more. Be that as it may, all thats left now is to pray for a change in weather, help those caught in it, and then somewhere down the road pick up the pieces and pay an enormous bill.
Estimates seem really low however I'm not there accessing the damage.
At just $100k per 88,000 people is almost 9 billion loonies.
I saw the moron at a photo op in moronto for the 840 million dollar transit project.
Evidently it takes a better photo op than a world class fire to get him and Goodale West of the 400.
If he goes now, he'd be oiled and feathered for it. I actually agree this isn't the time for photo ops and phoney tearyy eyed scenes of Justine wannabeiber. However.
/sarcasm on
im guessing reality he's waiting for more than 14,000 cots to arrive.
. Perhaps like Syria he/they think winter jackets for the displaced.......
Down the road? Aside from all the insurance claims for property loss, fire damage (which even if homes didn't burn, the smoke damage to structures/furniture etc) I imagine is going to be extensive.
Things are going to need to be torn down, cleaned up. Theres a big bill, then rebuilt.
I imagine engineers are going to have to stress test things to ensure they are safe following heat stress. Everything from structures, to the cities infrastructure (bridges, electrical, water)... Cha ching
Road crews I imagine will need to repave large stretches of pavement/roads..
You more than most are likely familiar with cleaning up, rebuilding following Katrine.......
Please tell me why the current Prime Minister of the country be 'oiled and feathered' for attending the area, to show support for those helping, at a disaster not of his making? When things like this happen in our country there should be no partisan politics involved. Should we not help because R. Klein once said, 'let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark'?
I suppose, in all fairness, if he showed up it would be damned too as another photo op.
He's just such a naive, childish, buffoon that it will be hard for him to do anything right or "right"
Appears all the management of the disaster is being done by NDP good or bad with some help from Sajeet.
Time will tell how little t is judged on his disaster response and his lack of asking for help before it was an inferno.
As much as I can't stand our clown as leader as of today this devastation is not done! Nobody at this point is considering monetary value ? Some are I guess. Get this raging beast out then start analizing the damage . We are all sitting here watching on our computer's / tv's and getting update's, it's a disaster. You and I didn't have 20 min to round up your family and what ever would fit in your car or truck and leave, only to watch your home burn behind you. I'm sure insurance companies are cringing ? then the final straw will be and it will take time to see what the government's do . Think of the people that lost everything first !!!
Jeez Gord, I'm surprised Skypilot had to answer it. If he did show up now, he'd be torn to shreds for.
a) scoring political points during a tragedy
b) taking officials away and creating a media circus when it's far from over
etc
In short, he/they are making the right decision. And if you'd paused long to think about it, you'd have known I'm defending him for "that", not criticizing.
Question......Does the Alberta Prov. Govt. have to ask in writing for the Canadian Federal Govt. to come in and resolve/help/takeover the current disaster?
Should simply be a yes or no answer.
By declaring a state of emergency, the Feds take on certain responsibilities.
Am having dinner with family, one of whom is an oil worker. Their camp/mine is an hour from Fort Mac. He estimates in a few days/week the mine will shut down all construction due to running out of supplies, food, water, more. The alternative is shipping it all from Edmonton (8hrs away). Aka the cost to supply the mine, operations, the people is going to sky rocket. Everything is shipped from Fort Mac. 19,000 workers......
For a region that's been crushed the last year..thinking about the "cost", or the lack of action/relief is you see, thinking about the people first. Just depends on how you look at it.
Thanks for the answer. Just thinking about similarities when Kathleen Blanco (Liberal Governor)refused to allow Bush(feds) to help Louisiana during Katrina and the suffering and prolonged recovery that it caused.
Apparently in Canada it is different wrt Federal/Prov. authority during disasters.
Yes, infrastructure will be priority one because until that is sustainable no human resources can be brought in to begin any type of real recovery.
I will "hazard " a guess most pipelines have been shut or cut down . as the producer's can't get the diluetent that is needed to make the heavy oil flow ? I see Fort mac as the absolute vitale hub to the oil sand's. where everything the producer's need either get's flowen into or is staged ? waiting delivery. Shipping from edmonton is null and void Where do you think the supplies be it food to heavy equipment come's from or through?? I lived in whitehorse for 5 year's every part we needed came from vancouver or lucky if edmonton had it? Still 2 day's out !
I could ask him. He's a shift supervisor, master electrician. His area of knowledge is r would be the construction end. Not sure if he's basing his guesses on the various camps absorbing people or what. But he figures days to a week before water/food for all the crews becomes an issue, and after that everything else for operations. His suspicician is that the company he works for will shut down all current projects for Atleast a year.
I've done a few recoveries, primarily refineries and chemical with a city or two also.
Generally had the connections to get large generators in to supply the city and parts/ labor to get the city's utilities and sewage system up along with essentials for the police from water to comms.
Then massive camps for contractors to live in to help the recovery effort both with the cities and the process areas.
It's the right thing to do, purchases good will and contributes to the good neighbour philosopy for our company. It is also immediate even before cities and gov. can react. Also less paperwork and less state/federal bureaucratic malaise.
All this should be on Ralph's radar.........
The....ah.... latest... ah...if...ah...you..ah...can..uh, believe it.
man oh man someone better hope the west doesn't think like his dad he's hanging them out to dry, and doesn't much care if Fort Mac and the oil sands go up in flames.
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...t-mac-wildfire
Justeen is a no substance, no brains, buffoon. He does not give a rat's booty about Alberta. They didn't vote for him. He had a real good talk with odumbo...as odumbo did the same with the South.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Justeen appears to only care about his "big shot" big spending attitude away from home.
So much for he and the liberals on their sacred environment. There's likely more pollution and particulates generated with his ignoring this fire than many manufacturing facilities could generate in decades.
I looked back, it's been over 100 years since the US let a fire get as near a city.
What an amateur. Justeen needs to quite acting like a Rap Star, or be run out of office.
The fantastic news is that much of the city is still intact,although utilities will be down for a couple of weeks. The part that isn't is a bulldoze/rebuild project. Hopefully,the insurance companies and the Feds step up to the plate without the usual skullduggery of obfuscation of claims and merely paying lip service with photo-ops,then,do nothing.
If it's declared a state of emergency does this not reduce the impact on the insurance companies? Had a good friend lose a trailer in a flood and it was declared a state of emergency and insurance was not required to pay out?
Someone with more knowledge please chime in :)
Can only assume given media reports about the price tags adding up is that no. A State of emergency won't be a get out of jail free card.
Meaning, if there are loop holes or contigencys (acts of god type stuff you hear about) that might allows insurance companies and underwriters off the hook, the people analyzing that stuff and reporting on it. Wouldn't be forecasting crippling cost.
Read yesterday Intact Insurance is taking a 1 billion write down, or something a long those lines.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle29936667/
Earnings reported by State Farm after Katrina were the highest in company history even after the massive payouts.
Insurance is not based on any real risk anymore. It's simply government mandated public fleecing just like the purpose of government.