Did anyone get over to Bobcaygeon to see the weigh-in for the first day of the walleye tournament? What condition were the fish in after a full day in the 32 degree heat ? Any MNR presence this year?
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Did anyone get over to Bobcaygeon to see the weigh-in for the first day of the walleye tournament? What condition were the fish in after a full day in the 32 degree heat ? Any MNR presence this year?
I'm interested too, went fishing with a couple friends on Pigeon yesterday and the 5 they kept went belly up in the livewell even after topping up the well a couple times.
Heard it was hard on the fish. First place is 11 pounds and 5 ounces I think. For today they cut the fishing time and bag limit. MNR was there. I heard from guys fishing that lots of fish were dying. Weather was too hot and fish didn't survive. Weigh in is at 12 and 12:30 and only 3 fish limit. So it's practically impossible to move up the standings.
Here are the standings after day 1.
Attachment 32985Attachment 32986
As well, here are the changes implemented by the committee for Sunday;
May 28/16 - Due to conditions the committee has made the decision to alter the Bag Limit and Hours due to the severe temperatures for Sunday May 29, 2016.
The Bag Limit will be 3 Fish Limit & Weigh In Times will be for First Flight Teams 140-71 Weigh In at 12:00pm & Second Flight Teams 70-1 Weigh In at 12:30pm
Rule #34 as stated: The committee word is final.
If you are tournament fishing regardless of species you need to run your circulation pumps on all day as well as keep ice in the boat when temps are like this. I add rejuvenate to the live well and add ice every hour to my wells. Ithink the key is to keep the pumps running all day.
Sadly, pretty much another repeat of the 2012 disaster, with MNR endorsing the demise of the resource. The managers of Fisheries Policy at OMNRF should maybe think about changing careers and start selling ice cream, or something. Time to change the marketing pitch for this tournament, and call it what it is - a 100% mortality event. They're would be more respect for the resource if all those Walleye had been kept for the table, instead of rotting in some weed bed. I guess the only comforting thing that comes from all of this is that it will ultimately be self-limiting. Pound the living crap out of an already stressed fishery, and it will eventually collapse. Goodbye tourism and economic benefits. Look out Pigeon Lake...you'll probably be next on the chopping block, once Sturgeon is toast.
Final standings
Attachment 32987Attachment 32988
Maybe they should run a Canada-US carp tournament from now on!!
There you have it. Simply put you can keep them alive if your willing to do a bit of work. Constant circulation does wonders for what ever you keep in the live well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
Come on, not every fish died in the event and the ones that did were donated don't assume they are just "rotting in some weed bed" . I was there both days and yes there was a lot of fish that died but to say "100 % mortality" is completely nonsense. Simply put (like stated here already) circulating the live wells and adding ice helped keep fish alive. some guys did not do this. The MNR was there and witnessed what happened I'm sure there will be changes. A lot of us were pissed with the cutting of limits for day two but I'm sure the MNR had some say in that. The tournament needs to have stricter rules with live wells forcing every boat to circulate water all day if they have fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenelon
To say there was " a lot of dead fish " seems like a problem.
My fear when I hear that they were donated is that those people end up throwing them out or freezing them for later and then throwing them out.
I can't see a fish that died in a live well and then floated around in there for anything more than 45 minutes being worth eating.
Just my opinion.
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It seems rather irresponsible to allow a tournament to be held in conditions that may lead to the death of many fish. I think in the public eye it doesn't look so great. Why not postpone or reschedule these tournaments? I think if the people responsible for this tournament are looking at it as a long term event for years to come, they are shooting themselves in the foot for the short term gains. Looks like selfish tendencies have lead to unnecessary mortality in the name of $$, victory, prizes and bragging rights.
Just my .02
Icing your livewell will merely improve your pre-release mortality rate for Walleye (eg. get your fish into the weigh station still alive). Your oxygen level will be up a bit if you drop your livewell temp a few degrees (you've increased your gas solubility). You'll get them alive to the dock, but other than that, you've just given the fish a death sentence for post-release. The 3-4 rounds of thermal shock that they'll be exposed to prior to release, as well as the repetitive handling, and holding in a livewell for potentially 8 hrs, has just killed your fish. There are lots of really good science lit. abstracts on the matter - easy to find using Google. One of the better ones - http://mncoopunit.cfans.umn.edu/file...2010-NAJFM.pdf
To even ponder the thought of having a late-May walleye tournament is absolutely insane. That MNR has endorsed, and signed-off on it, is criminal (IMO). The outcome is completely predictable. Anything above a surface water temp of 10 degrees and post-release mortality increase becomes exponential, without even looking at the myriad of other stressors for the fish during the event. OMNR protocol for walleye transfer operations - they cease at anything above 12 degree C when working with fish that are the same size as your Sturgeon slot fish. Ice is not used in any of the tanks, because we know from experience that this will kill all the fish. Surface water temp on Saturday at 1130am off the Long Beach dock was a ridiculous 23.7 degrees when I checked it with a thermister. It's not even worth commenting on this, or wasting anymore breath on the matter. It's like beating the perverbial dead dog.
OMNR should be ashamed of itself, to allow this event to continue eg. existing stressed population in decline, on a special regulations lake that has a 15 year fully documented data set (FWIN and NSCIN) that indicates a vulnerable fishery. Someone in Fisheries Policy, with apparently a fisheries biology background, is responsible to every person in this province to make sound decisions and ensure the conservation of our resource. This person signed a permit giving this event the OK to proceed. They've disregarded all of their own science, and experience, in dealing precisely with fish health care, and common sense. If you want a good read, go to the Alberta DNR site and see what is supposed to happen in a province that values its natural resources. Read the BMP section for live-release events, and pay particular attention to the word "Walleye".
Dave
While it may be a political black eye for the tournament. There was no devastation to the fishery that can pointed directly and only at the tournament.
Day 2 the field was cut in half to 70 teams, and a 3 fish bag limit and by looking at the teams total weights, not every team brought in 3 fish to be weighed. At absolute worst, 210 fish would have been taken out of the fishery if they all died, but they didn't.. If your lake can't take that, it's not the tournament that caused the crash.
I know guys who fished the tournament and they told me the fish they caught were dead when they weighed them, apparently by the day 1 weigh in over 80 walleye were dead and changes were made. The fish that were being released continued to die off as they were transported back to be released. Some fish were going to be donated to the food bank but their suitability for consumption would be questionable after being in a warm live well all day as others said.
sad sad sad.
The MNR was there and not impressed, i find it unimaginable that these tournaments which are about cash and prizes for contestants and sponsors come at the expense of a natural resource.
As i said in a prior post here we had the OPP out charging a guy over taking one fish which may or may not have been over the slot on the Tri lakes last week and here we see hundreds of fish being killed for the purpose of having a tournament so contestants can compete for cash prizes and tournament organizers can skim their cut from the prize money.
You tell me who the criminals are, everyone with an IQ over 19.7" knows tournaments like these are not sustainable and are being undertaken for all the wrong reasons.
Agreed !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
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Make it a catch and keep tournament all within the slot, then no need to worry about them not making it. Hey get the proper permits, have a fish fry and donate the proceeds from the fish fry to stocking
What laws did they break? Did the MNR lay any charges? If you want to help with a resource minimize the limits from the meat hunters, a one time tournament will not impact the lake at all. Long term catch and keep however will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
I hate seeing these results from the weekend as well and hope that the tournament organizers make changes going forward. For one I don't know why they let participants weight in dead fish, any tournament I have participated in gives you a penalty for any dead fish plus the dead fish does not count. This ensures participants take care of there catch as well as maintaining a proper live well system.
Allowing fish to spoil is against the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
I call B-shet on the fish being donated to the food bank.
They are not allowed to accept non commercially caught fish under the donation of food act of Ontario.
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I don't know why in this day and age you can't film your catch and release the fish immediately after measuring it and just go by total inches. But that would get subjective I suppose where 1/4 of an inch could cause a big argument because people can't be reasonable, that's the problem with money on the water it brings out the worst in people.
Or alternatively have 15 judges on the lake with portables scales that could weigh everyone's fish every hour or so.
Thumbs up to the idea of portable weigh stations all over the lake.
You should contact the tips line then, pretty strong words to call the folks there liars.Quote:
Originally Posted by stragglelake
Did you even participate in this tournament?
Just seems like bass are the perfect tourney fish... Tough as nails, resilient populations most parts and they do quite well in live wells... Plus not very valued as a food fish, the complete opposite of eyes. Although I doubt 200-500 fish will kill the fishery, it will lesson the opportunities for meat hunters... And even if half or a quarter die, I'd rather see those fish go to meat hunters...
No need to contact the TIPS line. MNR was onsite and decided to go with a politically correct half measure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
I didn't call anyone a liar, but I challenge anyone to prove any fish went to a food bank.
I did not participate in the event.
Although I'm sure I do not need to participate in the event to formulate an opinion on it.
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Given that the MNR were present and no charges laid, I don't think it's anyone's place here on the forum to suggest that charges should have been laid; I doubt that we know the nuances of the law better than a CO who's actually trained on the subject.
I think that the best suggestion for this tournament is to open it up to all of the Kawartha Lakes accessible from Bobcaygeon for the duration of the event so that some pressure is removed from Sturgeon Lake itself. I've been fishing there the last 25 years and the walleye fishery has taken quite a hit, but with the slot now in place it should start to recover.
Too bad the slot limit wasn't enough to halt the decline on Scugog.
Re: "I've been fishing there the last 25 years and the walleye fishery has taken quite a hit, but with the slot now in place it should start to recover ". You've definitely got that right Atilla. I've been involved in index trap netting on the lake since 1985. The arrival of zebra mussels caused massive changes in habitat utilization by walleye throughout the Kawarthas. Fish all became concentrated inshore in the weedbeds and angling success/harvest went through the roof. To give you an idea of how drastic the pop. change has been:
1982-1992 - very routine to get 20 hour six foot trap net sets with 175 - 300 Walleye. Then came zebras and the boom years of 100% angling success. It was ridiculous. Spend 45 mins dragging a worm harness, or rip jig, in the 5-10foot weedbeds and you had your six fish. The lake got pounded.
1998 - trap net catch is now down to 20.4 walleye per set (this is based on a massive 96 set trap net survey)
1999 - 2011 - continued gradual downward spiral of population. By 2009 to 2011, the catch was down to about 4 walleye per set. This result was also directly supported by 3 FWIN (Fall Walleye Index Netting) gill net surveys. MNR finally decided to do something, a decade too late. New regulations, reduced catch limits and established slot were introduced to ensure recruitment to spawning population.
Now add to this: lake now open to winter angling. Additional poaching and hooking mortality adds to the pot. Scugog Lake is now closed. Can you imagine the "spill-over" pressure that is now going to hit this lake, and the majority of it will be targeting walleye. Add to this a non-sustainable tournament that has consistently demonstrated that it's being a major annual mortality factor, and I can confidently say that there will be no "come-back" or improvement in the health of the fishery. Overharvest/mortality of all those slot fish = no progression to older age classes = reduced spawning population. If you think about the angling pressure that this tournament is adding, and it is species specific, targeting the fish that special regulations are trying to conserve: 140 teams = 280 anglers X16hrs over two days = 4480 rod hours!!! Does this make conservation sense to anyone reading this?
There is some irony in all of this. Not sure if you can call it "funny", or not. The Bobcaygeon Chamber of Commerce has clearly demonstrated that it has/and is prepared to trash the fishery, and accept this as acceptable collateral damage so they can have an annual economic boost. The restaurants, gas stations, and donut shops will be busy for a few days, but then what is left? How much economic benefit does a healthy fishery bring to this region? How much summer-long money does the cottage crowd, GTA anglers, resort and cottage rental fishermen, repeat rental customers, etc. bring when the fishing is worth coming up for? Shooting yourself in the foot comes to mind.
Stay tuned to next year. The 2017 tournament is already planned, and no doubt it will be in late May again, with lethal water temps again. Shake your head when you realize that your Ministry Fisheries Policy Section Manager will cave to political correctness again, and a permit will be signed, even though they know the fish will be dead. Not sure what else you can do. Maybe shame them into action with some social media exposure, newspaper articles, pictures of dead fish, or more letters. You can start by writing to your local MPP, The Minister, the manager of Fisheries Policy Section, The Bobcaygeon Promoter, and the local Lindsay and GTA newspapers.
Dave
Does keepin a dozen slot size eyes in spring and fall over a few weeks and eating them fresh make me a meat Hunter because if so then I am. Although I've released thousands of fish in my life I do feel justified in doing so. As do many others.
i guess it's the same at farm, I watch and let walk several dozen deer in a year but usually take two for the table...
Where did outdoors people go wrong when tourney folks began lookin down their noses after a day of exploiting nature trying to win a cash prize at the guy out humanely and sustainably harvesting his local supper. In the latter scenario the fish are caught immediately killed put on ice cleaned and valued as a special supper We may have 1/2 dozen times a year.
how would it be perceived if I held a tourney where the goal was for people to drive around town catching people by the head with a lassoo rope and locking them in the trunk of my car without AC.... And at the end of the day whoever had the most won the most money and we released the captured and hoped they were all ok.
Dave the date of this tourney likely made better sense 20 years ago but thanks to global warming we now have 30 degree days in May..
They either need to move it to opening day or wait until late September if there's a hope for those fish to live.
I have no proof that the fish didn't go to the food bank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
If my statement made anybody feel like I was calling them a liar I apologies for that.
I still believe that some fish must have spoiled and that a live release tournament that allows dead fish to be weighed in is not a live release tournament but a catch and keep tournament.
Let's call it what it is.
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True re global warming...that said, didn't we have snow flurries in the area less than 2 weeks ago on opener? It works both ways...Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
But there are rules and penalties and advisories on the website that outline what the requirements were, as follows;Quote:
Originally Posted by stragglelake
This is a live release tournament, which means operational live wells with working pumps are mandatory. There is an 8oz. penalty per dead fish that will be subtracted from a team's total weight.
Any live fish, unable to maintain equilibrium (swimming upright) will be considered stressed. It is the responsibility of all competitors to monitor and maintain the best possible handling procedures and fish care of their fish while in their control.
And my personal favourites…
10. Live wells: Operational livewells capable of drawing fresh lake water by means of an electric pump are mandatory. Portable livewells or large coolers are acceptable if rigged with capabilities for drawing fresh water from the lake (recalculating pumps are not enough, pumps must be able to draw fresh water from the lake).
10a. Recommended Fish Care: It is strongly recommended that you run your livewells on “constant” throughout the entire day regardless of how many fish you have in the livewell while fishing (no timers or intermittent operation). If traveling long distances (more than 15 minutes), anglers are encouraged to stop and “water your fish” (run your livewell pumps for several minutes) to replenish the water in your livewell.
So my thoughts are whether the rules were followed and if so what were the penalties that were incurred. Those stats would be interesting to see.
I hate seeing portable livewells and I would be willing to bet many don't have the battery capacity to run there pumps all day.
Typically penalties are posted to the corresponding teams in the results. I hope changes are made going forward.
During the tournament, are participants allowed to catch fish outside of the slot limit legally?
You can't avoid catching them, but you're not allowed to keep them.Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
No matter how it's sliced it's not good.Not good for the fishery, and not good for the industry. The MNR was there, and thus far no charges have been laid. The MNR was almost certainly there due to past problems, problems I might note Fenelon took a lot of heat for revealing. Everything from plenty of doubters, to just heat.
Never understand why people shoot the messenger. Today, organizers have brought in changes, the MNR is present and while there are still problems. Was this years mortality rate higher than previous years when it first started becoming "common knowledge" and on the radar?
We can thank Tournament fishing for many things, some advancements and even some favourable law changes. The law and reg's were changed a few years ago to define live wells, culling and catch and release. That favourable change came about specifically because of Tournaments.
I guess consistency, protecting declining stocks only applies when we want it to....aka "can't have it both ways"......:)
By and Large, when the organizers changed the rules for Sunday, the participants either were in complete favour, or while they didn't like it, understood the need. There were a number of participants calling the Live Release boat/operators onto the carpet as well, where apparently fish went into the tank to bake while....
There were a few/some who didn't agree, were angered who felt that the 3 bag limit and shortened time would make it impossible to move up in the standings, and thats problematic. Many of the participants are sponsored by big names and its as much a "black-eye" on them as well. Hopefully the dissenters were few. As always, its the few "bad apples"....................
No doubt there will be further changes for next year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenelon
Hi Dave,Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenelon
Thanks for sharing all of the details which outline the impact on the fishery and the great synopsis on walleye tournament mortality found in the link you provided. I certainly learned a lot reading it, and it was fascinating to see the science involved in it as well.
What are your thoughts on moving the event to the fall, which would result in cooler water temps, say into late October?
Late edit; for some reason your posts didn't show up during my initial reading of the thread, which is why I never noted them in previous responses. It's nice having someone on the board who is familiar with the lake and the fish population therein.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
IT would never fly in the fall because most of the guys fishing this tournament are BASS anglers, and would turn up their noses at a walleye tourney during the BASS season. The only reason they participate now is because their beloved BASS aren't open yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila
I have always disliked this tournament. Live release, and walleye just don't go together. You either release them right away, or kill them, there is no in between. Retaining them in a livewell never works, even in the fall.
S.
I get that you dislike the tournament, but I think that your comment about those who fish bass tournaments is pretty unfair. While the bass tournament scene is by far the biggest in this province and in North America, I think that you'll find that many anglers are multi species focused. Greg Klatt comes to mind on this board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinker
The chance to win a decent payout is what draws tournament anglers, and if the payout is there and the fish can be protected, then there will always be a cross section of anglers who will take part if they have the time to.
Ask the bass guys if they would fish a walleye tourney during bass season.
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I think the answer is no, sponsors do not want to see you chasing toothy critters...
The tournament culture is really focused around Bass fishing. FLW and B.A.S.S both have grassroot tournament series now north of the boarder.
Exactly. And this tourney happens before bass season. Its one of, if not the first "big" tourney in ON on inland waters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
S.
Re: October tournament. I personally do not believe the MNR should be allowing any "live-release" Walleye tournament in Ontario waters. The species is simply not wired to deal with the stress of catch, retain, thermally shock, transport , and release. Read the literature on the matter. There's tons of it, and now that we all have computers, all you have to do is punch in Google. The scientific community (including our own MNR), has known this for the past four decades. Look at the situation down in the US. The optics and public dissent got so bad from the public disproval over resource impact, that the pro walleye circuit is now running immediate release tournaments will digital photo capture, real-time social media tracking of the teams, etc. Bass are a totally different creature. I personally totally support a well-operated bass tournament if the fish health has been properly addressed. I've even worked as the bio at some, and I felt pretty good about the whole event. It is sustainable, and I don't think it adversely affects the resource to the point that it's not a viable practise. Having this walleye tournament happen on Sturgeon Lake is a worst-case scenario. It's a small lake, with a heavily-exploited walleye population that is barely "holding on". If you doubt what I'm saying, then I BEG you to call the Kawartha Lakes FAU and request a digital copy of the index netting data. It's available under the Public Info Act. Anyone can have access to it. See what's happened to the walleye population over the time block of 1998 - 2012. They will have 13 years of NSCIN netting data, as well as three complete FWIN gill net surveys. Even if you had zero mortality at the weigh station, what logic is there in adding 4000 rod hours of angling pressure to an already bad situation ? Add to this the spillover from the closure of Scugog, the impact of the winter fishery, and direct competition from the still-expanding Black Crappie population, . Not looking so good for what's left of the walleye population.
Some obvious red flags for any walleye tournament, and I insist that you read the literature to validate what I'm saying - anything above 12-14 degree surface temp and YOU WILL have post-release mortality (it was almost 23 degrees this year, as it was also in 2012 when major mortality occurred). YOU WILL have dead fish every year if you run this tournament during the 3rd to 4th week in May. That is as sure as punch. YOU WILL have dead post-release fish if your livewell is not continuously pumping. YOU WILL have post release fish dead if you ice your livewell, or transport tank and enact a temperature fluctuation greater than 2 degrees celcius. YOU WILL kill all your fish post-release if you have a water temp fluctuation greater than 2 degrees C, as the fish is transferred from boat livewell, to weigh-in tank, to release boat tank, and back into the lake. YOU WILL have post-release dead fish if your livewell does not have adequate capacity. Putting 6 fish @ slot length into livewells of non-specified volume for up to 8 hours will kill the fish post-release. You need at least 13.5 liters per fish, hence the reason why Alberta has its 2 fish max livewell rule. I can go on and on. All you have to do is research this stuff yourself. The saddest part of this is that our MNR knows all of this, and continues to allow our resource to take the hit.
Dave
Well said Fenelon.
this tournament is run by some very dedicated people who care about the fishery we have, they take the time to ensure the fish are well taken care of they are not god and cant control the weather this is why the shortened sunday of fishing which was fine. The co that was on hand would have stopped it if any thing was going bad through the day he did not so it seems everything was ok. this may burn some out there but if you cared enough about the walleye fishery, then instead of ing on here then send a letter to your fisheries minister and have him spend some of the funds that people spend on licences to help replenish the walleye numbers on all of the kawartha lakes, slot sizes only work for a short time until it catches up to where there is no larger fish to spawn. So all the people who are against walleye tournaments turn your anger to the mnrf, I look forward to the Canada/us walleye tournament returning next year and hope the weather is more in favour the event staff which are volunteers did an excellent job hosting the event and did their best at looking after the fish under the warm conditions, cheers to all of you
Deerslayer
A few years ago Fenelon came on here and made post about huge losses following the tournament. All kinds of dead fish dumped back into the Lake, and more to come (PRM). He was called a liar, names and many more things. Challenged to provide proof...Go into the water and get video and still of all these non existent dead fish many said. Many of whom were participants.
No-one can say for sure, if that post was solely, that ran for pages, lots of flames...probably thousands of post views, was largely responsible for getting it in the public eye, but things changed afterwards (funny that). Even if it was just a wee tiny bit responsible. Posting here, obviously helped bring it to the front burner.
They take the time?
Well,there was that huge kill back a few years........and another large kill this year. I happen to know some people fishing it, and was reading things participants had to say about Sundays change on Saturday night. Many ripped the organizers for a bad/shoddy release boat. I don't know the specifics of the problem there (suspect A) inadequate tanks and B) length of time...but don't want to speculate. A few were angry the Shimano live release boat wasn't used. Thats the organizers responsibility.
The CO almost certainly...I don't say certainly because I wasn't there, wasn't a fly on the wall, had things to say following so many dead fish at weigh in (and after) Saturday. hence changes for Sunday.
We all buy our cards, money goes to the SPA. Some of us, also buy deer tags. Im sure if Walleye numbers were the only thing happening the MNR could as you suggested make stocking Walleye the be all and end all.
What about Moose?
What about Salmon and Trout in the great Lakes
What about Wolf/Bear problems
What about invasive species be they Gobbies or plants
What about deer numbers
What about Yotes
What about no where near enough COs out there
Im sure people did their best. Im sure many are angry or upset (some aren't, some few participants were more angry that the changes for Sunday all but ensured they couldn't move up in the standings) but even despite their best. Large numbers perished.
Its called taking responsibility, and one thing we (meaning all of us..anglers, hunters, those in various parts of the industry) are always telling the public? Especially when a bad apple gives us all a black-eye?
How much we care about conservation.
Hmmmmmmmm, something doesn't add up when sooooo many fish....especially Walleye (struggling in many lakes) on a known fragile Lake are killed off.
Good post Fenelon - I'm not sure why we are running walleye tournaments either. A walleye is far more fragile than a bass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenelon
If they are going to continue with them, why not go all the way and kill, clean and use the fish. At least that way the tournament anglers may have some appreciation for what their tournaments do to fishing stocks.
The only thing I find more disgusting than killing a mess of walleye with a fishing tournament is dumping them back into the lake to rot instead of eating them.
tournaments aside I never see anyone on my part of the St. Lawrence catch and releasing walleye. I am amazed at the quality of the fishery considering there is little to no catch and release.
Please don't bring this tournament back to Pigeon Lake. Unless they move it to the fall or opening weekend, which probably won't happen because they are harder to catch at those times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila
Hi John:
It would be wonderful to give out fresh caught local fish, however, the regulations concerning Food Banks make it impossible unless the fish were taken to a plant and commercially cleaned and packaged. The same applies to venison and other wild game. My apologies. Thank you for your generous offer.
Sincerely,
Denise Auger,
Community & Family Services Worker
-----Original Message----- From:
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 4:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Donating fish
I was wondering if I could donate fish that I caught while I was fishing in the area ?
Thanks in advance for your response.
John
Sent from my iPhone
I'll preface this by saying I'm not calling anyone a liar.
I wrote to the Fenelon Falls Food Bank about donating fish and the above was the email response I received
If any of the organizers are on this forum or anyone else that can tell me what food bank they donated to it would be greatly appreciated.
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stragglelake: Thanks for clarifying this. It applies to any wild game.
Straggle lake you might have caught onto somwthing... maybe what's goin on is the guys that run the tourney aren't releasing all the fish and maybe taking home a bunch !!!!'
maybe thats why they don't care to have the shimano live release boat becuz they don't really need a good one just one that makes it look like the are live releasing the fish !!!!
Before anyone starts attacking me claiming I'm not "following science", please let it be known that the following is my own personal opinion. The fish are dead with a 3rd to 4th week run in May, but regardless, the use of any release/transport boat is half of the problem for this tournament. It's the retention part of the sequence that's doing most of the damage (eg. livewell retention (and duration), and transport tank retention). I was not at the tournament this year. I saw the forecasted weather 3 weeks prior, and decided not to go (wouldn't have been good for the blood pressure). I only heard word back from a few friends about what happened at the weigh-in. Some questions to those that were there:
how long did the weigh-in take? What was the tank retention time for the longest held fish?
did the organizers know what their tank volume was, and were they counting fish as they went into the tank ?
did anyone there know the correct/safe tank loading (density) rate for Walleye of that size, held at that water temperature ?
was the tank merely receiving surface water pumped water, and what was the flow rate?
what was the DO level in the tank, and what interval was used for tank measurements?
was supplemental oxygen (tanks, regulators, and diffusers) being constantly delivered to both the holding tank and the indoor processing troughs?
was ice used at any stage, including by fishermen in the livewells ?
were any fish dry-held obn the stage?
Etc, etc, etc, Stress is a cumulative thing. Having a release tank merely adds two more thermal shocks, overcrowding, and anoxia to the equation. They would be better off completely ditching this approach. Once again, do as they do out in Alberta, where their DNR seems to have some common sense.
Have it in the rules that livewells MUST be continually run. A DQ if you're caught with it not running.
Rules - state mandatory livewell size based on the 13.5 liter:1 walleye rule.
Rules - two fish rule for retention. You get DQ if caught running with 3, or come to check station with 3
Rules - and/or clause - two fish rule and/or max. retention of 2 hours in the livewell
No release tank. No indoor trough system. No twin dryland carries. No holding up of fish/exposure to atmosphere
On-water weigh stations ONLY. Sturgeon is tiny. You'd only need four, spaced-out in fishing area. Protected, on solid shore dock (need this for electronic scale). Gov. dock at Verulam Park, Gov dock at Sturgeon Point, Long Beach dock, Kennedy Bay marina dock.
In-water 4X4 cribbed holding cage that floats at surface, 1/8" knotless ACE mesh only. 20" depth on pen bag. Boat pulls to dock. Derby person (NOT ANGLER) responsible for removal of fish from livewell. Wet cotton glove and 1/8" ACE mesh Eagar minicradle ONLY. Direct transfer to surface pen with two fish in cradle. Judge checks lengths with cotton glove, directly in cradle. Transfer to perforated weight tub. Immediate weight at dockside. IMMEDIATE release at dockside. You get two thermal shocks instead of 5, and it will not be a big one if anglers stay clear of ice and have livewell running all the time. Fish are never held up.
This is a great strategy for the fish but unfortunately it does nothing for " the fishing show " at the end where sponsors are and want to see their product endorsed like they are at the bass masters classic..
lets be honest though.. Tourneys aren't about the fish or resource they are a fishing show where people make money at expense of a resource.. One would think the OPP would police criminals like that.
Haha I'll get the popcorn.
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Straggle its amazing how in some threads a fish is as sacred as a cow in Africa but in others it's okay if bunch die for no valid reason I guess what matters is who's the ones catching them, what stickers are on their boat and truck and how much money is involved.
Can you pass over some popcorn.. lol
Where is everybody from that other thread with the fish just over the slot ?
I think they were commenting mostly on blind support of the OPP rather than the fish because it's pretty quiet over here now.
That's some tasty popcorn !!
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Criminals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
I like the in water pen idea; perhaps instead of 2 on the north shore they could have one right in town at Fenelon under the dam so that there would be a lot more colder water flow which would help the fish in the long run?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenelon
They could increase the cost of entry to cover any expense associated with ensuring the safe release of all the walleye caught and weighed. Water pens, multiple weigh stations, proper checking of live wells, medication supplements, ice, etc. They would still have to find a date with cooler temperatures.
Make money???... bwaaaahhaaa There is not a single professional tournament series in Canada, every single participant in any tournament I have every fished in Canada have day jobs just like you and I, to say we do this for the money is laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
It's amateur fishing guys and nothing more. Only those that are competing at the highest levels are being financially compensated and the few that are will not be competing in two day weekend tournaments in Ontario.
When do we do all this "selling" ? at the whopping 20-50 people at the weigh in... lol
Tournament guys care more about the resource than arguably anyone, without the resource we cannot enjoy the competition of tournament fishing and all the other days spent on the lake.
Think we'll run out of popcorn on this one!!Quote:
Tournament guys care more about the resource than arguably anyone, without the resource we cannot enjoy the competition of tournament fishing and all the other days spent on the lake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
Aint that the truth! Sit back and Wait for the crap storm.
"Tournament guys care more about the resource than arguably anyone"
Anyone that would drive around the lake with a rotting walleye in the live well just to weigh it in for a trophy or dollar amount cannot make me believe they have any respect for the resource.
Still no response from anyone on what food bank they used for donations.
I wrote to the MNR and asked them some questions. I'll post there response when I get it.
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There is no legal way that uninspected wild-caught fish could be donated for consumption, under federal CFIA (Canadian Food Inspection Agency) rules. It's possible to donate game in the US, but not up here. Whoever said this is trying to do some damage control. It's hard enough to even get certification and cleared inspection for aquaculture-reared fish.
They a pretty self serving bunch, if it's a tournament with money on the line a couple hundred dead walleye no big deal. Let's use our police boat to try and save one walleye over a 1/4 to give out a 175$ fine so the JP can toss it.
Really you think people that own property on sturgeon pay the high taxes don't have an intetest. Because before and after the tournament those fisherman care deeply about the lake they live on. The American anglers are only there for the chance to fish and win some cash.
Do you think if there was a different tourney with more money closer to their he they would fish there,
When sturgeons fished out they move the tournament do the cottages sell and buy on a new lake
if all you anglers have ideas on how to help the tournament and the fish why not contact them and become a volunteer they probably wouldn't mind having some ideas that might help the resource. also if you think there isn't some cottagers with more than a few extra walleye in the freezer
I'm surprised at the event planners for not having a back up plan. The weather was obviously not favourable for this kind of tournament, atleast not for the walleye. On simcoe I think there was an ice fishing tournament that was cancelled for poor ice conditions. I believe they did a raffle for the prizes. And wasn't a fall bass tourney cancelled because of the wind and weather conditions? I would expect more from the mnr. It's disgraceful to ticket a single person for an offence but not a field of people killing fish (intentional or not) in the name of a tournament victory. I think the cottagers on the lake should step up and protect their investment.
It is and always will be a money thing. The boost in the local economy on the short term probably looks good (tourism, goods, etc.) but once again there is a lack of foresight for future generations.
It leaves a poor impression on me that these tournaments benefit the resource, or that tournament anglers have a big interest in preserving the walleye population. I don't post often but I read post regularly and if I'm not mistaken this is the second such tournament with similar results. When will the event coordinators learn? When will our mnr man up? What will it take to actually make a difference?
birdbuff
I reached out on this forum to the organizers and any volunteers about statements that the dead fish were given to food banks and got no response.Quote:
Originally Posted by deerslayer
To try and justify this by accusing cottage owners of having over there limits in the freezer is really a poor justification and not fair to the cottage owners.
I have a suggestion for the organizers .... Just don't run it !
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Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdbuff
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The squeaky wheel will get the grease, and the only way that's going to happen is by directly confronting the issue with the MNR's Fishery Policy Section. Turn it into a major social media event, and MAYBE, they'll do the right thing for once and allow the resource to be the priority in this matter. Both the Minister, and David Brown was the guy to address your letters to back in 2012. Don't waste your time contacting the Chamber Of Commerce, as they've already made it evident that they plan to trash the resource for the three day annual economic gain. Much of the impact from this event is hidden from the public. There's lots of PR work, raving articles to the local papers about the community volunteer support, yet the average citizen is not aware of all the dead fish. That's because most of the post-tournament mortality occurs 24-72 hrs after the event, when everyone has gone home. If you truly want to get the public's attention, get 6 people lined up with snorkel/scuba gear. GPS the release site for both days. The sites are shallow - less than 20feet. Dive these spots on the two days of the event (within 2 hrs of release), as well as the next three after. Make sure you dig down to substrate level in the weed beds. Freeze everything you find, but take total length measurements on everything you retrieve. Wait until there is a full COKL Council meeting in Lindsay, then go and dump the load on the front lawn at Francis street, when the council is in session. Make sure there's a sign that says "Courtesy of MNR Fisheries Policy Section, The Bobcaygeon Chamber Of Commerce, Bass Pro Shops, Tracker Boats, Rapala, Yamaha Canada". Make sure all the local sponsor names are posted as well. Before you go, make sure you call CHEX News, as well as the Peterborough Examiner, Oshawa Times, local Lindsay papers. Better yet - use the dead fish to spell out "Courtesy Of The Canada-US Walleye Tournament and The Ontario Ministry Of Natural Resources And Forest Fisheries Policy Section" on the Water Street sidewalk by the MNR head office building entrance in Peterborough. Call the Fisheries Policy guys and ask them to take a look out the window! I remember this being done up in Red Lake. The ensuing damage control actually resulted in the first sound resource management for the area.
Hahaha tell us how you really feel. Don't hold it inside its not healthy.
Still no response from anybody on the food bank.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stragglelake
Did you call the tournament organizers ?
Why would any tournament angler purposely let fish rot in there livewell? You cannot weigh in a dead fish and then are penalized!
Do we need a certain standard in livewells Jason?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
Answers to your questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
I did not call the organizers, I have emailed them but have not received a response.
I cannot answer why anyone would let a fish rot in their livewell. You would need to ask the people that did it.
You can weigh in a dead fish.
Rule # 3.
8 OZ penalty for weighing in a dead fish.
4 OZ penalty for a stressed fish .. Which will most likely die.
As well in rule # 3.
All dead fish will be surrendered to tournament staff.
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Now this is a great idea ! This is exactly how all tournaments should be runQuote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
Unfortunately the local MNR says that stocking walleye in the kawartha lakes is a no go. It would be nice though.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
The ministry can't figure that if the small walleye are being taken by other fish then raise them until they are a bit larger and they say they won't stock the lakes with walleye then if there is a group willing to do so some of our fees should be given to such groups to do so. As the symbols stand for ministry of no results forever
Latest response from Kawartha Lakes Food Source. ( KLFS )
They supply a large number of food banks in the Kawartha region.
Hi John:
Thank you for your kind offer, but due to rules and regulations we are governed by, KLFS can only except non-perishable food items and produce.
We do, however appreciate you thinking of Kawartha Lakes Food Source!
Brenda Carroll
Assistant to the Executive Director
What really happened to the fish that were " surrendered " to tournament staff as per rule #3 ??
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Tournament staff are likely eating like kings I would guess.
I would also guess someone, or some bodies are over the possession limit. Why no fines or confiscation of gear?
Stragglelake:
Call 705-750-2001 (Kawartha Lakes District) at MNR and ask to speak to the Enforcement Coordinator. Ask him where the fish went. You could try asking the Bobcaygeon Chamber Of Commerce, but I doubt they'll even call you back.
I emailed the MNR
Their mission statement says that all emails will be responded to within 14 days. I'll post their response.
I also emailed the tournament organizers but have not gotten a response.
I did get a PM from a board member that said I shouldn't be calling all the tournament volunteers liars although no one has come forward to defend what they did with the fish.
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