50 killed in Florida

Unreal. I really can't for the life of me understand why they don't expand the background checks down there. No it's not foolproof but it would still weed out thousands of people who aren't stable enough to own guns. I don't think the 5th amendment has a clause that includes the criminally dangerous or unstable as having the right to own guns. Not sure what the details will be here but you can't just look away. The NRA will eventually shoot themselves in the foot by not assisting in a workable solution.

Americans will keep talking about this but they won't do anything about it. They are the only country that has up to 3 mass shootings a day. Seriously when is it enough? How many people need to die? There is no need for civilians to have access to assault rifles

Well I have to disagree a bit on the Assault rifle thing. A semi auto centre fire is just that and many people hunt with them and are perfectly safe and trustworthy. I think they need to weed out the people who shouldn't own "any" firearm.

Terr' - its the second amendment - well lets look that the big picture - first of all there are over 300 million guns in this country - if you were to try and register these guns with the idea of eventually rounding the guns up only the good people would register them and the criminals would be the only ones with guns - so that's not an option - next assault rifles are semi-auto guns just like a lot of guns used for hunting they only look different and because of that they are called assault rifles - some have big magazines but restricting their size doesn't really do anything because a guy could carry several more ammo clips - if this guy was hell bent on killing a lot of people he could have just as well used a bomb or a couple semi-auto hand guns - it is not the guns - it is the nuts that are out there - how do you keep nuts from getting a hold of a gun - you can try to but there is no way that you will always be successful - anymore then you are able to keep guns out of the hands of criminals - just look a drugs - all kinds of laws against there use but you see how successful they are -

Now we get back to the issue of more good people having guns with them - here is another case of no one having a gun to stop the killer before he kills a lot of people - there were around 100 people in the place when he started shooting - if only a couple of the patrons had guns they could have ended the killings - so what is the answer - more good people need to carry guns - plain and simple - you stop a bad guy with a gun by a good guy with a gun

Then there is the main event - look down through history - who killed citizens in Russia, Germany, China, Cambodia etc. - the goverment did - the second amendment was put into our constitution so that the people could resist the government when it decides to mistreat the citizens - the founders of our nation had seen what the English government did to the people in the colonies and they wanted to make sure that the citizens had a way of resisting any such mistreatment - yes freedom has a price - be it fighting a war where thousands die or in the home front where some nut kills some innocent people - I bet there will be a lot more people buying guns in Florida so that if they are in such a situation they will at least have a chance - to you Canadians who travel to Florida I suggest you watch where you go -

I'm not falling into the black guns/assault rifle ban club. I feel gun owners should have background checks and if they are deemed safe to own firearms then issued a permit just like our PAL system up here. Once a person is approved I see no point in restricting which type of firearm he or she owns. Of course the criminals will ignore these laws but it could weed out some unstable people who shouldn't be owning guns.
As an update to this massacre it now looks like it could be domestic terrorism. The shooter was a person of interest with the FBI. Pretty sure he wasn't a Christian or Buddhist.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...lub-story.html
The Federal Bureau of Investigation twice interviewed Omar Mateen for having alleged terrorist ties before he killed 50 people and injured 53 others at a gay nightclub in Orlando, the deadliest shooting in U.S. history.

FBI learned of him in 2013 after he made inflammatory remarks to coworkers and alleged terrorist ties, said FBI Special Agent In Charge Ron Hopper.

The FBI investigated and interviewed witnesses and Mateen, but closed the investigation. He came to the FBI's attention again in 2014 for making contact with a suicide bomber. FBI determined their connection was minimal and closed the investigated

U.S. Senator Bill Nelson, D-Florida, said the Islamic State claimed responsibility for a massacre at an Orlando gay nightclub that left 50 dead and 53 injured, the deadliest shooting in U.S. history.


Now if these simple facts are correct... IF .... to blame the firearm is a rather ridiculous but I checked on some Twitter feeds and sure enough those like Boob Rae are saying it is an access to firearms problem... WHICH If he was under FBI/police investigation twice and still was able to legally obtain a firearm then I would have to agree with them ,Obama too is going on about the AR-15 and assault rifles as usual.

Apparently the shooter phoned 911 and claimed support for ISIL and there was someone with explosives and firearms in Los Angeles near that pride event. The firearm isn't the question, the Orlando terrorist could have killed more as a suicide bomber, throwing firebombs etc. but the question is why the media won't look at the cause, usually just a blind statement about hatred ... it is Ramadan and it is like an annual event to see these type of things in the news from around the world...4 killed in Jerusalem but the worst is from a couple years ago where 3 Christian girls were beheaded as "Ramadan trophies" *not in numbers etc.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1111112492769
Warning there are some new news articles about the killing and that Indonesia released the rabid dog a couple years ago and I made the mistake one time of clicking on the one link that include pictures of the girls. I am not including that link and do NOT recommend looking for it!

I see "ideology" and "religion" repeatedly mention and "mass shooting" but they sure seem to be avoiding the word terrorism and Islam in the same sentence even though his parents are from Afghanistan and he phoned to declare allegiance to ISIL. Massacres by Islam in Sudan, Iraq, Syria, Congo and Pakistan that add up to several hundreds of people (one suicide bomber in Pakistan that in the 60 killed included children.) get almost no attention because, ... where they are from? the victims are Christian? ....????

I hear he was a licensed, approved Security Guard. Had to have some checks there to be a licensed guard and /or bonded.

It was also reported he had domestic issues previously so.......

Apparently he hated lgbt AND was reported to have sworn allegiance to ISIS. Difficult to prevent lone wolf attacks. First paid duty cop failed to stop him and the rest is history.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bonkers

Americans will keep talking about this but they won't do anything about it. They are the only country that has up to 3 mass shootings a day. Seriously when is it enough? How many people need to die? There is no need for civilians to have access to assault rifles

---

it's about freedom.....not need. I assume he had copious background checks as he was a licensed and bonded Security Guard. I know you won't grasp this but it ain't the gun, car, knife, beer bottle, baseball bat, acid vat, etc., it's the person.

Besides this is our only terrorist attack....yep, correct, not a workplace violence BS tag by Odumbo. He finally HAD to use/say/hang the Muslim Terrorist Tag as he couldn't squirm his wormy azz out of it this time.

US dealer background checks are as good or or better than anyone else. Actually so is our private sale when compared to Canada. All I have to do is be "satisfied" that you have a license in Canada. Pretty much the same amount of real effort needed in the US as Canada on used sales.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...lub-story.html
The Federal Bureau of Investigation twice interviewed Omar Mateen for having alleged terrorist ties before he killed 50 people and injured 53 others at a gay nightclub in Orlando, the deadliest shooting in U.S. history.

FBI learned of him in 2013 after he made inflammatory remarks to coworkers and alleged terrorist ties, said FBI Special Agent In Charge Ron Hopper.

The FBI investigated and interviewed witnesses and Mateen, but closed the investigation. He came to the FBI's attention again in 2014 for making contact with a suicide bomber. FBI determined their connection was minimal and closed the investigated

U.S. Senator Bill Nelson, D-Florida, said the Islamic State claimed responsibility for a massacre at an Orlando gay nightclub that left 50 dead and 53 injured, the deadliest shooting in U.S. history.


Now if these simple facts are correct... IF .... to blame the firearm is a rather ridiculous but I checked on some Twitter feeds and sure enough those like Boob Rae are saying it is an access to firearms problem... WHICH If he was under FBI/police investigation twice and still was able to legally obtain a firearm then I would have to agree with them ,Obama too is going on about the AR-15 and assault rifles as usual.

Apparently the shooter phoned 911 and claimed support for ISIL and there was someone with explosives and firearms in Los Angeles near that pride event. The firearm isn't the question, the Orlando terrorist could have killed more as a suicide bomber, throwing firebombs etc. but the question is why the media won't look at the cause, usually just a blind statement about hatred ... it is Ramadan and it is like an annual event to see these type of things in the news from around the world...4 killed in Jerusalem but the worst is from a couple years ago where 3 Christian girls were beheaded as "Ramadan trophies" *not in numbers etc.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1111112492769
Warning there are some new news articles about the killing and that Indonesia released the rabid dog a couple years ago and I made the mistake one time of clicking on the one link that include pictures of the girls. I am not including that link and do NOT recommend looking for it!

I see "ideology" and "religion" repeatedly mention and "mass shooting" but they sure seem to be avoiding the word terrorism and Islam in the same sentence even though his parents are from Afghanistan and he phoned to declare allegiance to ISIL. Massacres by Islam in Sudan, Iraq, Syria, Congo and Pakistan that add up to several hundreds of people (one suicide bomber in Pakistan that in the 60 killed included children.) get almost no attention because, ... where they are from? the victims are Christian? ....????

---

Freedom is never free....a concept completely lost on an entire generation of Canadians too willing to let the "nanny staters" systemically remove them a little at a time until they're all gone. Then,they'll sit back and wonder WTF happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skypilot

I hear he was a licensed, approved Security Guard. Had to have some checks there to be a licensed guard and /or bonded.

It was also reported he had domestic issues previously so.......

Apparently he hated lgbt AND was reported to have sworn allegiance to ISIS. Difficult to prevent lone wolf attacks. First paid duty cop failed to stop him and the rest is history.

---

If they do their background checks for Security Guards like we do or the Americans do for TSAgents,I wouldn't count on it. Most of the rent-a-cops can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skypilot

it's about freedom.....not need. I assume he had copious background checks as he was a licensed and bonded Security Guard. I know you won't grasp this but it ain't the gun, car, knife, beer bottle, baseball bat, acid vat, etc., it's the person.

Besides this is our only terrorist attack....yep, correct, not a workplace violence BS tag by Odumbo. He finally HAD to use/say/hang the Muslim Terrorist Tag as he couldn't squirm his wormy azz out of it this time.

US dealer background checks are as good or or better than anyone else. Actually so is our private sale when compared to Canada. All I have to do is be "satisfied" that you have a license in Canada. Pretty much the same amount of real effort needed in the US as Canada on used sales.

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Excellent points on your President,but,I also notice that our CBC avoided any reference to Islamic terror and Muslims in the same sentence. Political correctness is what will kill western civilization,not terrorism.

I guarantee you Trudough has let in scores of Islamic extremists who will just sit as sleepers and then strike here. All to win an election. I hope he can live with himself if some fanatic blows up a daycare centre.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

I guarantee you Trudough has let in scores of Islamic extremists who will just sit as sleepers and then strike here. All to win an election. I hope he can live with himself if some fanatic blows up a daycare centre.

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You really think it hasn't happen before he got in power?!?
IMO, few of you guys need to think for a couple of hours before writing because you make no sense and you can't even see it.

It really doesn't later who's in power, terrorists will always get in. You can't filter everyone and they don't come out of a cave, they are educated and have money.

Sad event though and unfortunately not the last. I hope the 99% of good Muslims understand quickly it's time for them to clean up their own or it won't end well for nobody, including us!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seabast

You really think it hasn't happen before he got in power?!?
IMO, few of you guys need to think for a couple of hours before writing because you make no sense and you can't even see it.

It really doesn't later who's in power, terrorists will always get in. You can't filter everyone and they don't come out of a cave, they are educated and have money.

Sad event though and unfortunately not the last. I hope the 99% of good Muslims understand quickly it's time for them to clean up their own or it won't end well for nobody, including us!

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Here's why that won't happen !
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Here's why that won't happen !
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

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I won't argue those numbers and fact, I bet half of the planet hate the Western life but all I really care is the one living along us. A huge majority of good ones (that I grow up, work and live with) need to get their side cleaned up before we all lose patience and ignaorance wins.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Now we get back to the issue of more good people having guns with them - here is another case of no one having a gun to stop the killer before he kills a lot of people - there were around 100 people in the place when he started shooting - if only a couple of the patrons had guns they could have ended the killings - so what is the answer - more good people need to carry guns - plain and simple - you stop a bad guy with a gun by a good guy with a gun

---

Just so you have some clarity here, the guy started shooting outside the club and a police officer who was stationed at the club exchanged fire with the gunman and was not able to stop him before he entered the club, so this point it no longer valid.

Lets see what the NRA has to say about this, we know that Trump is all his glory has already made this about him.

Holy mackeral Fox - how does what you say make what I said invalid? - maybe the cop was a poor shot - are you telling me that if several people in that crowd were armed things would not have been different - come on man - give me a break -

Another point to consider - why did he pick out a gay bar and not some other place? - do you think maybe that he didn't like gays or was it because his religion condemned their life style - or was he mad because gays are pushing their life style on others who don't agree with it - some interesting questions - it sounds like there was another guy out in California who was going to bust up the gay pride parade but was caught before he could act - very interesting to say the least - people do over react at times -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Holy mackeral Fox - how does what you say make what I said invalid? - maybe the cop was a poor shot - are you telling me that if several people in that crowd were armed things would not have been different - come on man - give me a break -

Another point to consider - why did he pick out a gay bar and not some other place? - do you think maybe that he didn't like gays or was it because his religion condemned their life style - or was he mad because gays are pushing their life style on others who don't agree with it - some interesting questions - it sounds like there was another guy out in California who was going to bust up the gay pride parade but was caught before he could act - very interesting to say the least - people do over react at times -

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What I am saying is that a gun does not always stop something like this from happening, the guy was nuts and a trained police officer was not able to stop him. I do not believe that a bunch of people in the club with guns would have reduced the carnage, quite possibly it could have increased the number of dead by collateral damage. When as the last time you were in a club? From what I recall it is essentially a mass of bodies, nothing to stop a rifle round, many people would be hit with each shot and another gun in there would have done the same.

At this point they are looking at a hate crime towards the gay community, at least the heads of the Muslim community in the states has instantly condemned this act on another minority group.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Holy mackeral Fox - how does what you say make what I said invalid?

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Full on face palm.

Florida , is one of the states that does have a concealed carry law, apparently the people at the LGBT Club IN Orlando do not believe that they should go into these clubs while being armed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Holy mackeral Fox - how does what you say make what I said invalid? - maybe the cop was a poor shot - are you telling me that if several people in that crowd were armed things would not have been different - come on man - give me a break -

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Yes, we do!
How many time in the US a gun owner stopped a mass shooting? It aint like tv, when the fecal matter hits the fan people run for their life, with gun or without, and couldn't care less about who's behind.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Florida , is one of the states that does have a concealed carry law, apparently the people at the LGBT Club IN Orlando do not believe that they should go into these clubs while being armed.

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Most clubs, even in states with cc, don't allow weapons. For obvious reasons.

JoePa's statements are mind boggling (as well as completely contradictory).

Yeah, sure, a bunch of drunk, high and deafened partiers, packed into a club like sardines would totally be capable of firing through a mass of seething humanity, while everyone panics in terror, in extremely low light levels... to successfully kill the murderer.

Right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Most clubs, even in states with cc, don't allow weapons. For obvious reasons.

JoePa's statements are mind boggling (as well as completely contradictory).

Yeah, sure, a bunch of drunk, high and deafened partiers, packed into a club like sardines would totally be capable of firing through a mass of seething humanity, while everyone panics in terror, in extremely low light levels... to successfully kill the murderer.

Right.

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Remember, without hitting anyone who is not the murderer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Holy mackeral Fox - how does what you say make what I said invalid? - maybe the cop was a poor shot - are you telling me that if several people in that crowd were armed things would not have been different - come on man - give me a break -

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seabast

Yes, we do!
How many time in the US a gun owner stopped a mass shooting? It aint like tv, when the fecal matter hits the fan people run for their life, with gun or without, and couldn't care less about who's behind.....

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Didn't carrying civilians stop that recent attempted terrorist attack in Texas?

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...85&oe=57C4D396

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maximus44

Didn't carrying civilians stop that recent attempted terrorist attack in Texas?

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Nope, it was a police officer who was on scene that wounded them and the SWAT team were the ones who ended the conflict.

[QUOTE=Fox;977860]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maximus44

http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by seabast http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...post-right.png
Didn't carrying civilians stop that recent attempted terrorist attack in Texas?
Nope, it was a police officer who was on scene that wounded them and the SWAT team were the ones who ended the conflict.

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How my nane got into that!?!

Keep it up guys, I'm enjoying the show. Have some popcorn.

When a guy comes into a place and starts shooting up the place - as soon as people realize what is going on they take off running - if I were there the first thing I would do is duck behind something and calmly pull out my handgun and starting shooting at the guy - turning my back and running is not an option - especially if you are armed - all of these mass shootings have been in places where guns are not allowed -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

When a guy comes into a place and starts shooting up the place - as soon as people realize what is going on they take off running - if I were there the first thing I would do is duck behind something and calmly pull out my handgun and starting shooting at the guy - turning my back and running is not an option - especially if you are armed - all of these mass shootings have been in places where guns are not allowed -

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I think you need to go to a club, your plan will never work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

When a guy comes into a place and starts shooting up the place - as soon as people realize what is going on they take off running - if I were there the first thing I would do is duck behind something and calmly pull out my handgun and starting shooting at the guy - turning my back and running is not an option - especially if you are armed - all of these mass shootings have been in places where guns are not allowed -

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Joe Pa ! your statement just doesn't make any sense at all, if you pulled out your handgun in a place where they are not allowed, you would be committing a criminal act and would be charged, that is the way I see it .
By what you are saying is that you would carry your handgun into any place even though it is not allowed, which is then condoning a criminal activity which could end up with you behind bars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

When a guy comes into a place and starts shooting up the place - as soon as people realize what is going on they take off running - if I were there the first thing I would do is duck behind something and calmly pull out my handgun and starting shooting at the guy - turning my back and running is not an option - especially if you are armed - all of these mass shootings have been in places where guns are not allowed -

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Such horse shyte.

First of all, good luck finding something to hide behind in most clubs. They keep the floor plans as open and clutter free as possible to negate traffic issues and potential lawsuits from tumbles, falls, etc. We're not talking about 1970s lounges with big booths and tables and stuff. Dance clubs are big open rooms with little more than the odd support post.

Second of all, not a single LEO or military guy i know who has been in a firefight claimed to be calm while shooting at someone armed with a military grade weapon. I highly doubt your - and nearly everyone's - ability to "stay calm" in such a situation.

Even if such calm is possible and you manage to achieve it there's the matter of hundreds of people slamming into you, continuously, as they rush past to escape. Good luck managing accurate shooting from that. You can stand 30 ft from any man sized target you like and i'll just poke you roughly, not even run into you with my 250lbs, and you won't land a single lethal hit. I guarantee it.

I wonder,after everything is said and done at the end of the investigation,how many of the hundreds of rounds fired by Police hit customers instead of the bad guy? From the TV aerial pictures,it amazes me how they crammed 300 people into such a small venue. For the bad guy,it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Florida , is one of the states that does have a concealed carry law, apparently the people at the LGBT Club IN Orlando do not believe that they should go into these clubs while being armed.

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The shooter had a CCW license. He had more checks than Canada requires as a comparison. He was checked as a Security Guard, A bond check, a CCW check by Florida State and if the firearms were purchased from a dealer he filed a 4473 form with the BATFE AND was checked by the FBI. If he bought them private sale, just as in Canada, the seller is required to not sell to anyone that shouldn't have it.

This is about evil and misguided ideology not about a gun purchase.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Florida , is one of the states that does have a concealed carry law, apparently the people at the LGBT Club IN Orlando do not believe that they should go into these clubs while being armed.

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But,that would be an entirely reasonable assumption for people attending such an event. That's a very close-knit society where the very last thing on anyone's mind would be such a possibility ever happening for anyone to think they need to attend "heavy".

^^^ Agreed 100%

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I wonder,after everything is said and done at the end of the investigation,how many of the hundreds of rounds fired by Police hit customers instead of the bad guy? From the TV aerial pictures,it amazes me how they crammed 300 people into such a small venue. For the bad guy,it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

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I fully understand the drill. We adopted immediate action drills for active shooters but that changes when the perp throws the switch from active shooter to hostage taker. Our HRT Commander used to say "if you can get a man to talk, you can get him to walk." Meaning "maybe" nobody else has to die in order to end the event.

I still expect a huge dustup on the 3 hour wait and the initial failure to breach. I suspect negotiations influenced the delay in the relatively immediate entry or they switched Tac Teams.

Generally, once the carnage has occurred, nothing is gained by waiting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

When a guy comes into a place and starts shooting up the place - as soon as people realize what is going on they take off running - if I were there the first thing I would do is duck behind something and calmly pull out my handgun and starting shooting at the guy - turning my back and running is not an option - especially if you are armed - all of these mass shootings have been in places where guns are not allowed -

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JoePa,

You have had some doozie posts in the pasts but this one takes the cake.

First, as others have pointed out and yourself as well, people are going to be taking off running. How accurate are you going to be with hundreds of people potentially hitting your arm/body in a mad rush to get away from the danger? Do you think because you pull out your "hero" card (aka a good guy carrying a gun) in your attempt to stop the shooter from causing more harm, people will step aside to allow you to have a clear line of sight at the shooter? Furthermore, you fail to realize most of the patrons won't know you from Adam and probably won't realize you are trying to stop the shooter. I can recognize a LEO because they are easily identifiable as they are wearing a uniform and a badge, you will have no such way to help people identify you as a "good guy". In your make believe scenario, you think you would be the only one armed. If you are armed, there is more than likely other civilians armed and now we have the potential for an old west saloon shootout where no one knows whose side anyone else is on. There aren't any white/black cowboy hats to distinguish between good guys and bad guys. Add in a adrenaline factor to your shooting and things get chaotic rather quickly.

Second, I think you severely underestimate the protection of furniture in a bar (as Oddmott pointed out if you could find something to hide behind). This stuff is flimsy and wouldn't stop a sneeze. Go buy a dresser drawer and shoot it up and see how well it stands up for cover.

Thirdly, I would like to propose an experiment. I will have you in a crowd of people (it doesn't have to be a massively dense crowd either) and fire a blank and then have the crowd of people run in the opposite direction. What is the likelihood of you drawing your firearm before the crowd stampedes you into the ground? Don't forget, you will probably have to get your firearm out of your holster and add more time if it is concealed as clubs don't really want civilians walking around visibly armed.

Fourthly, and this is most important. You said if I were there. Here is the problem with that condition. You, JoePa, wouldn't have been there to stop it. The shooting occurred at a Latin themed night gay bar at 2am in the morning. You are an elderly man who lives in Pennsylvania who has a 1940's outlook of the world. There is a better chance of a visit by an benevolent extra terrestrial species than you being in that club on Saturday night.

You seem to believe if you had been at any of these mass shootings you would have been able to somehow stop it with a your trusty sidearm and a heroic can-do attitude with the only damage being to the bad guy who is more than happy to stop his destructive rampage to let you get a nice clear shot at him at your leisure. Most men grow out of these juvenile fantasies by puberty. You should really be checked for dementia if you truly think you could have somehow stopped this and your actions would have done more help than harm. I would really love to call your bluff and encourage you to arm yourself and back up all of your big talk you have posted on the forums when it comes to situations like this. I know it will not turn out like you think it will.

Dyth

Well said Dyth but i wouldn't bother responding to the troll because it ultimately encourages even more .

First of all you start out your rambling with a error - I said - when a guy comes into a place and starts shooting - you took off with the idea that I was talking about this gay bar - I wouldn't be caught dead in such a place so things would not follow what you think would happen - you put me in a place where I would never be - so everything you said about the furniture and everything else is not relevant - - second - I practice a lot with my firearm and can get many accurate shots off in a short time span - i third - I'm a Korean combat vet so shooting at people or getting shot at doesn't make me fall to pieces - too often people like you judge others based on how you would feel about things and the little experience you have - which often times is no where near what a real man would do - that's one of the big problems we have today - too many wimps and not enough real men around - I grew up when men were men and girls were girls - today half the time you can't tell them apart - be careful and don't stab yourself with the knitting needle -

You thought they were straight men and woman but many were not. Not that long ago gay/lesbian people started to come out of the closet. Most of us can look back and have an ah hah moment and realize that cousin or uncle, aunt, family friend was a homosexual. Back in your day you couldn't tell them apart, today everyone seems to know at least one or two people that are openly gay. We've come a long way baby. Your lack of ignorance doesn't give you a free pass. Wake up ! Homosexuals have been around forever. Even John Wayne was reported to be gay ! lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

You thought they were straight men and woman but many were not. Not that long ago gay/lesbian people started to come out of the closet. Most of us can look back and have an ah hah moment and realize that cousin or uncle, aunt, family friend was a homosexual. Back in your day you couldn't tell them apart, today everyone seems to know at least one or two people that are openly gay. We've come a long way baby. Your lack of ignorance doesn't give you a free pass. Wake up ! Homosexuals have been around forever. Even John Wayne was reported to be gay ! lol

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I don't know about "The Duke",but,Rock Hudson sure as he** was. LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

First of all you start out your rambling with a error - I said - when a guy comes into a place and starts shooting - you took off with the idea that I was talking about this gay bar - I wouldn't be caught dead in such a place so things would not follow what you think would happen - you put me in a place where I would never be - so everything you said about the furniture and everything else is not relevant - - second - I practice a lot with my firearm and can get many accurate shots off in a short time span - i third - I'm a Korean combat vet so shooting at people or getting shot at doesn't make me fall to pieces - too often people like you judge others based on how you would feel about things and the little experience you have - which often times is no where near what a real man would do - that's one of the big problems we have today - too many wimps and not enough real men around - I grew up when men were men and girls were girls - today half the time you can't tell them apart - be careful and don't stab yourself with the knitting needle -

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JoePa, i think it's time for you to put on the old cardigan, sit in your old rocker and enjoy Perry Como's song " Dream Along With Me " which i think you have been listening to it for a long time and dreaming.
Your "gun fighting days are over " long ago !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Freedom is never free....a concept completely lost on an entire generation of Canadians too willing to let the "nanny staters" systemically remove them a little at a time until they're all gone. Then,they'll sit back and wonder WTF happened.



If they do their background checks for Security Guards like we do or the Americans do for TSAgents,I wouldn't count on it. Most of the rent-a-cops can't walk and chew gum at the same time.



Excellent points on your President,but,I also notice that our CBC avoided any reference to Islamic terror and Muslims in the same sentence. Political correctness is what will kill western civilization,not terrorism.

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You are correct Trimmer on the likelihood of a decent background check prior to employment. I just realized he worked for G4S.
The company that brought us the London Olympics scandal due to manpower deficiencies.

They likely would need warm bodies over trustworthy bodies.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

First of all you start out your rambling with a error - I said - when a guy comes into a place and starts shooting - you took off with the idea that I was talking about this gay bar - I wouldn't be caught dead in such a place so things would not follow what you think would happen - you put me in a place where I would never be - so everything you said about the furniture and everything else is not relevant - - second - I practice a lot with my firearm and can get many accurate shots off in a short time span - i third - I'm a Korean combat vet so shooting at people or getting shot at doesn't make me fall to pieces - too often people like you judge others based on how you would feel about things and the little experience you have - which often times is no where near what a real man would do - that's one of the big problems we have today - too many wimps and not enough real men around - I grew up when men were men and girls were girls - today half the time you can't tell them apart - be careful and don't stab yourself with the knitting needle -

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JoePa,

Sigh. I had hoped you could understand the meaning of the message rather than nitpick the post. You are a small, ignorant man who lives in a fantasy world where your one outlet seems to be he can be a hero who guns down bad guys. I have posted what is wrong with your solution to a shooting in a crowded place but you seem not to understand. So I am going to try to boil it down to the essence of it in hopes you can understand it. In a situation like the one on Saturday night, you have reiterated time and time again you would introduce more chaos and panic into an already tense situation. That you would make a bad situation much worse in a childish attempt to live out an attempt to be a hero is reason enough that you should never be placed into a situation which requires you to make that decision to become involved.

As for being able to get many accurate shots off in a short time, shooting at something you want to hit should never be rushed whatever the target maybe. The fact you seem to think the amount of times you pull the trigger in a given time frame is important means you really missed the point of what I was saying. The more times you pull the trigger, the increased chance of something going wrong and you killing an innocent person despite any skills which you may or may not have. Skills, I might add, which are 63 years old unless you have somehow convinced someone to try to shoot at you while you return fire. See the funny thing about what you are doing (being an Monday morning armchair quarterback) is that you can analyse how you would react to a situation which is now hypothetical for you without all the nasty fallout of having to live through it. You can pretend you would be a crack shot under the massive stampede of human bodies and any actions you would do wouldn't have any consequences to it.

Lastly, you have no idea my experiences in my life. You imply I, or anyone else, who would question you about your asinine ideas on how a man should behave is somehow less of a man than 50 years ago. I don't care what you think of me. However, please allow me to tell you, you are a dinosaur of a human being whose day is long past and whose ideas can't leave this world fast enough. I actually pity you because of you are trying to hold on to a by-gone era which wasn't as rosy as you think it was.

Dyth

I hate to jump on JoePa, because for various reasons I enjoy most of his posts. But somewhere in the avalanche of information coming forth since the atrocity I heard (read?) that the shooter engaged a total of fourteen police officers in three gunfights prior to being killed. Fourteen officers. Three gun fights. That doesn't reflect well on the theory of an armed civilian being able to stop the massacre, unless that civilian happened to be standing right next to the shooter when the carnage began.

On another note, here's something a friend of mine posted on Facebook Sunday. He happens to be a member of the OOD community, but hasn't been active in a while. It is one of the better pieces of commentary, professional or amateur, that I have read since the atrocity. I am sharing it because I hope some will read it and take it to heart. I have over the last two or three years, and particularily in the last year, found my position on many contentious issues softening as I look for the grain of truth in the positions of those I have disagreed with. Thus I found myself nodding in agreement with what he has written, in fact I agree with every word.

He wrote:


Well, yet another tragedy has unfolded and the Internet is already on fire, fingers pointing, while countless voices spout an array of hatred which to no surprise, was the very cause of this disaster. Some are shouting about religion, others about firearms, and their opposers feverishly struggle to whip up their rebuttals in an endless circle rather than linear progress toward agreeable policies befitting the multitude of cultures within our society. Inevitably, discussion turns into arguments, and arguments breakdown further into the same level of extremism preached by those who are claiming responsibility for this event. It's okay to be gay. It's okay to be Muslim. It's okay to be straight. It's okay to be atheist, Christian, a firearms owner, an anti firearm advocate. It's okay to believe the sky is purple and mankind is the product of an unimaginably advanced alien species who visited earth a million years ago--I may think it makes you crazy, but it's okay to believe what you want. Your right to believe is of no more value than anothers right to disagree. Your right to disagree does not supersede anothers right to believe. It's okay to be different, and ultimately it's what makes life together so interesting and amazing. But your right to be different ends when your beliefs become forced upon another human being. Forcing another individual to adhere to your perspective is exactly what happened here, and was accomplished in the gravest and most severe manners. So, you want to make a difference? Instead of criticizing the infinite walks of life among mankind, how about you show a little bit of courtesy? Stop complaining about religion. Stop complaining about firearms. Stop complaining about gay people. Stop complaining about gun free zones. Stop the rhetoric on all sides, and cease your efforts to force another human being to adhere to your views. After all, that's exactly what led to this latest mass shooting.

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Originally Posted by smallgamer

I hate to jump on JoePa, because for various reasons I enjoy most of his posts. But somewhere in the avalanche of information coming forth since the atrocity I heard (read?) that the shooter engaged a total of fourteen police officers in three gunfights prior to being killed. Fourteen officers. Three gun fights. That doesn't reflect well on the theory of an armed civilian being able to stop the massacre, unless that civilian happened to be standing right next to the shooter when the carnage began.

On another note, here's something a friend of mine posted on Facebook Sunday. He happens to be a member of the OOD community, but hasn't been active in a while. It is one of the better pieces of commentary, professional or amateur, that I have read since the atrocity. I am sharing it because I hope some will read it and take it to heart. I have over the last two or three years, and particularily in the last year, found my position on many contentious issues softening as I look for the grain of truth in the positions of those I have disagreed with. Thus I found myself nodding in agreement with what he has written, in fact I agree with every word.

He wrote:


Well, yet another tragedy has unfolded and the Internet is already on fire, fingers pointing, while countless voices spout an array of hatred which to no surprise, was the very cause of this disaster. Some are shouting about religion, others about firearms, and their opposers feverishly struggle to whip up their rebuttals in an endless circle rather than linear progress toward agreeable policies befitting the multitude of cultures within our society. Inevitably, discussion turns into arguments, and arguments breakdown further into the same level of extremism preached by those who are claiming responsibility for this event. It's okay to be gay. It's okay to be Muslim. It's okay to be straight. It's okay to be atheist, Christian, a firearms owner, an anti firearm advocate. It's okay to believe the sky is purple and mankind is the product of an unimaginably advanced alien species who visited earth a million years ago--I may think it makes you crazy, but it's okay to believe what you want. Your right to believe is of no more value than anothers right to disagree. Your right to disagree does not supersede anothers right to believe. It's okay to be different, and ultimately it's what makes life together so interesting and amazing. But your right to be different ends when your beliefs become forced upon another human being. Forcing another individual to adhere to your perspective is exactly what happened here, and was accomplished in the gravest and most severe manners. So, you want to make a difference? Instead of criticizing the infinite walks of life among mankind, how about you show a little bit of courtesy? Stop complaining about religion. Stop complaining about firearms. Stop complaining about gay people. Stop complaining about gun free zones. Stop the rhetoric on all sides, and cease your efforts to force another human being to adhere to your views. After all, that's exactly what led to this latest mass shooting.

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Uncommon common sense,right there,for sure.

wise words.

That was brilliant Smallgamer. actually I would like to use it if you think it would be ok.

Well Dyth - what you are basically saying is that any attempt by an armed good guy to take out a shooter is a waste of time - well that is exactly what happened and you have 100 people shot -

Small' - the words put forth by your friend sound nice - it basically preaches tolerance - but to be realistic it won't work - a society that is built on that foundation will never last - because you will have people pulling in different and often times in opposite directions - if some people think that murder is wrong but others think that it is ok under many circumstances - do those who think it is wrong just sit by and let the others murder people - I should say not - that is just an example but the notion can be applied to just about anything -

There is a battle going on in this world for the souls of men - there are moral absolutes - some things are right and some things are just plain wrong - and if those who adhere to a high moral standard just tolerate any immoral action - society will end up in the gutter and eventually decay -

As far as the gay community is concerned - based on my religious beliefs I believe that the homosexual life style is immortal - and I will do everything legal to stop any attempt by homosexuals to push their agenda foreward - the same thing with abortions - now some of you may think that my way of thinking is out of touch and old fashion with what is happening in today's world - yes I agree - but that doesn't stop me and millions of others to hold up the standard of human dignity - if some want to degrade human kind to the level of animals - good people need to resist -

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Well Dyth - what you are basically saying is that any attempt by an armed good guy to take out a shooter is a waste of time - well that is exactly what happened and you have 100 people shot -

Small' - the words put forth by your friend sound nice - it basically preaches tolerance - but to be realistic it won't work - a society that is built on that foundation will never last - because you will have people pulling in different and often times in opposite directions - if some people think that murder is wrong but others think that it is ok under many circumstances - do those who think it is wrong just sit by and let the others murder people - I should say not - that is just an example but the notion can be applied to just about anything -

There is a battle going on in this world for the souls of men - there are moral absolutes - some things are right and some things are just plain wrong - and if those who adhere to a high moral standard just tolerate any immoral action - society will end up in the gutter and eventually decay -

As far as the gay community is concerned - based on my religious beliefs I believe that the homosexual life style is immortal - and I will do everything legal to stop any attempt by homosexuals to push their agenda foreward - the same thing with abortions - now some of you may think that my way of thinking is out of touch and old fashion with what is happening in today's world - yes I agree - but that doesn't stop me and millions of others to hold up the standard of human dignity - if some want to degrade human kind to the level of animals - good people need to resist -

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You sound a lot like the people the Europeans who left Europe for American sounded like, religious tolerance is in your constitution. Did you know that "Under God" was not added to the pledge until 1954? You notice how they did not actually say which God, maybe that is because it did not matter to them, maybe they added it to set themselves apart from the radical Communists who decided that religious was against the state.

Gay people are not pushing an agenda, they are trying to live free, without the bigotry and ignorance of people like you.

I really hope that your Christian God is the right God, if that is the case the amount of judgement that you put on others will surely be brought back up as your stand at the gates to heaven.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

That was brilliant Smallgamer. actually I would like to use it if you think it would be ok.

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As a courtesy, I checked with my friend and he said feel free to use it.

JoePa I believe in the same God as you as well as many other Christians who believe in the same. Gods love is for all including the prostitute, killer the sinner sitting in the church every Sunday. God's love is unconditional for all people including the gay/lesbian community. Only God knows what in all of our hearts and you and I will not be the judge of that. You will not truly know God until you have experienced his love. And when you have truly experienced God's love your whole attitude will change forever. It's life changing !

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Originally Posted by smallgamer

As a courtesy, I checked with my friend and he said feel free to use it.

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Thank you

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

JoePa I believe in the same God as you as well as many other Christians who believe in the same. Gods love is for all including the prostitute, killer the sinner sitting in the church every Sunday. God's love is unconditional for all people including the gay/lesbian community. Only God knows what in all of our hearts and you and I will not be the judge of that. You will not truly know God until you have experienced his love. And when you have truly experienced God's love your whole attitude will change forever. It's life changing !

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Well put.

Yes Yellow' - yes God's love is boundless - he loves all - but He also set a standard which we should live by - He loves the sinner but not the sin - I believe that the bible is the inspired word of God and it in no uncertain terms condemns homosexual activity - I realize being born a homosexual is a burden - but then there are few people in this life who don't carry burdens - we all have them - it is how you deal with them that counts - when the people brought a woman who was caught in the act of adultery to Jesus - He told those ready to stone her that the one without sin should throw the first stone - they all walked away - but Jesus told her that neither did He condemn her and forgave her - but he did tell her to go and sin no more - He also said that if you don't follow his teaching and you say that you love Him - you are a liar - believe me - live is short and some day you will stand before a holy God and make an account of yourself - many homosexuals have found a way to live a fruitful and good life without giving in to their sinful desires - life is a struggle - not a rose garden

I've known people who were gay - one of my secretaries was one - she was a very nice woman and a good Christian woman - we had many discussions on the subject and I know she lead a pure life for which I admired her greatly for -

The thing that bothers me is how the gay community pushes its - what I call agenda - first they want to redefine what marriage is - even though for thousands of years it was between a man and a woman - then they want some baker who wants no part of a gay marriage to bake their cake - when the baker refuses they sue and attempt to force their wishes on someone who doesn't believe in gay marriage - then in our schools they continue to push the idea that having two mothers is normal and everything is ok - then when the owner of a restaurant chain says he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman the gays raise a big ruckus and threaten him with physical harm - so you see the push is not always for the right -

I do wish you the best - I've been on this earth over 82 years and have seen many things, been to many places, seen many changes but in the end I believe it is your relationship to Almighty God that really counts

Pretty sad that in 2016 ignorance is still so rampant ^^^^^^^^

And so blind^^^^^^

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Originally Posted by Bandwagon

Pretty sad that in 2016 ignorance is still so rampant ^^^^^^^^

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^^^^^DITTO!^^^^^ Just because someone has moral values that don't agree with your "politically correct" views certainly doesn't make them ignorant by any stretch.

This changes everything. The ex wife likely knew.

http://www.newstalk1010.com/news/201...re-it-happened

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

^^^^^DITTO!^^^^^ Just because someone has moral values that don't agree with your "politically correct" views certainly doesn't make them ignorant by any stretch.

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I think it does !!
It's not a moral issue !!
Welcome to 2016.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Well Dyth - what you are basically saying is that any attempt by an armed good guy to take out a shooter is a waste of time - well that is exactly what happened and you have 100 people shot -

Small' - the words put forth by your friend sound nice - it basically preaches tolerance - but to be realistic it won't work - a society that is built on that foundation will never last - because you will have people pulling in different and often times in opposite directions - if some people think that murder is wrong but others think that it is ok under many circumstances - do those who think it is wrong just sit by and let the others murder people - I should say not - that is just an example but the notion can be applied to just about anything -

There is a battle going on in this world for the souls of men - there are moral absolutes - some things are right and some things are just plain wrong - and if those who adhere to a high moral standard just tolerate any immoral action - society will end up in the gutter and eventually decay -

As far as the gay community is concerned - based on my religious beliefs I believe that the homosexual life style is immortal - and I will do everything legal to stop any attempt by homosexuals to push their agenda foreward - the same thing with abortions - now some of you may think that my way of thinking is out of touch and old fashion with what is happening in today's world - yes I agree - but that doesn't stop me and millions of others to hold up the standard of human dignity - if some want to degrade human kind to the level of animals - good people need to resist -

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Wow !!
It's beliefs like this that fuel most radical religious groups.
Change some of the wording and it could be an ISIS speech.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Yes Yellow' - yes God's love is boundless - he loves all - but He also set a standard which we should live by - He loves the sinner but not the sin - I believe that the bible is the inspired word of God and it in no uncertain terms condemns homosexual activity - I realize being born a homosexual is a burden - but then there are few people in this life who don't carry burdens - we all have them - it is how you deal with them that counts - when the people brought a woman who was caught in the act of adultery to Jesus - He told those ready to stone her that the one without sin should throw the first stone - they all walked away - but Jesus told her that neither did He condemn her and forgave her - but he did tell her to go and sin no more - He also said that if you don't follow his teaching and you say that you love Him - you are a liar - believe me - live is short and some day you will stand before a holy God and make an account of yourself - many homosexuals have found a way to live a fruitful and good life without giving in to their sinful desires - life is a struggle - not a rose garden

I've known people who were gay - one of my secretaries was one - she was a very nice woman and a good Christian woman - we had many discussions on the subject and I know she lead a pure life for which I admired her greatly for -

The thing that bothers me is how the gay community pushes its - what I call agenda - first they want to redefine what marriage is - even though for thousands of years it was between a man and a woman - then they want some baker who wants no part of a gay marriage to bake their cake - when the baker refuses they sue and attempt to force their wishes on someone who doesn't believe in gay marriage - then in our schools they continue to push the idea that having two mothers is normal and everything is ok - then when the owner of a restaurant chain says he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman the gays raise a big ruckus and threaten him with physical harm - so you see the push is not always for the right -

I do wish you the best - I've been on this earth over 82 years and have seen many things, been to many places, seen many changes but in the end I believe it is your relationship to Almighty God that really counts

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I really shake my head when I read "some" of your comments but that explain it all....Lots have change since your teenage years and it must be difficult, maybe just impossible,to understand some of today’s lifestyle, morals and whining…. Must of today’s city kid grow up with all kind of color, religion and sex preference, you probably didn’t. Also going to war must have been a live changer, I’m sure glad I never had to! My Grandparents were the same way so there are many things I would never speak of in front of them. Anyway don’t stress it out, the world went to crap a while ago and there is nothing we can do to change it, just live it hard.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Wow !!
It's beliefs like this that fuel most radical religious groups.
Change some of the wording and it could be an ISIS speech.



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Or any other group in the history of mankind who has committed some kind of crime against humanity.

I'll probably regret getting into this but .................:) I very rarely speak of my belief here.

Coming from an evangelical church since 16, I understand fully what Joe is saying. I admire his courage to speak up with a position that is not popular. This is his right and name - calling is unacceptable.

I too believe the Bible which leads to many questions always.

Homosexuals are born homosexual. Some clearly so and some barely
( feminine men and butchy women). Your sexuality is formed in utero , depending on the amount of testosterone you get.
My nephew is transgendered. The placenta separated from the uterus early on in the pregnancy , so his choice did not surprise us. We treasure him.
The Bible is clear about sex being for the married. That means singles and homosexuals shouldn’t be having sex. Seems very unfair. I know.
But now, homosexuals can be married according to the rule of the land. Hmmm... more questions.

We all sin in a variety of ways and all need a Saviour – that much I am sure of.

Conclusion : I am going to leave the judging to the Lord, and practice acceptance of my fellow man/woman. I’ll have many questions for Him when I see Him.

Postscript: My neighbors are two married homosexual men. They are grieving deeply over the tragedy in Florida. One of the men is the Pastor of the homosexual church in London. They are having a service of remembrance this week. My husband and I will be going.



https://www.google.ca/webhp?tab=mw&e...ormed+in+utero


edited for spelling

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

I think it does !!
It's not a moral issue !!
Welcome to 2016.


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For the vast majority of humanity it is absolutely a moral issue. Never assume politeness or toleration as acceptance. The vast majority of the human race still view homosexuality as repugnant and repulsive.

Well said Sharon, well said. Joe is free to believe what he wants ( or anyone else for that matter) and while I may not see things the same way I will respect his views as we all should. He is not trying to force his views on anyone and to me thats the main point. Believe in whatever you like and thats all good with me. Force your views or insult others over what they believe is not good. Full stop.

I never in my baseball career from little league thru semi pro ever had a runner fail to get out of my way on a double play at second. NOBODY will take a hardball between the eyes between 1st and 2nd base.......

You're simply wrong, people close enough to "POKE" you will get away from a gun pointed/located right at/next to them ESPECIALLY if running from a guy with a gun slaughtering them.

You're also wrong...cover and concealment are two totally different things. Cover is protective, concealment isn't always.
Cover is good when you've been seen, concealment is good when you haven't been.
You post long posts but not much fact, just a lot of noise and drumming.

Joe can believe what he wants, whether you 4 like it or lump it. You 4 are mighty intolerant of Joe yet you want/expect Joe to be tolerant of your beliefs and have attacked him. Oh the SO TOLERANT showing the proper amount of Political Correctness and manufactured outrage..........

SG the numbers are close but it was 1, then 3(not sure yet if 1 was included in that second gunfight) and then the balance(11 if my info is correct)were Swat in the last gunfight.

Big difference when you both have seen one another and are actively trying to stop one another after the event has begun(1st cop) vs. slaughtering unarmed people and being shot from cover/concealment by a armed bar patron. Which is what Joe was trying to contribute.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

I'll probably regret getting into this but .................:) I very rarely speak of my belief here.

Coming from an evangelical church since 16, I understand fully what Joe is saying. I admire his courage to speak up with a position that is not popular. This is his right and name - calling is unacceptable.

I too believe the Bible which leads to many questions always.

Homosexuals are born homosexual. Some clearly so and some barely
( feminine men and butchy women). Your sexuality is formed in utero , depending on the amount of testosterone you get.
My nephew is transgendered. The placenta separated from the uterus early on in the pregnancy , so his choice did not surprise us. We treasure him.
The Bible is clear about sex being for the married. That means singles and homosexuals shouldn’t be having sex. Seems very unfair. I know.
But now, homosexuals can be married according to the rule of the land. Hmmm... more questions.

We all sin in a variety of ways and all need a Saviour – that much I am sure of.

Conclusion : I am going to leave the judging to the Lord, and practice acceptance of my fellow man/woman. I’ll have many questions for Him when I see Him.

Postscript: My neighbors are two married homosexual men. They are grieving deeply over the tragedy in Florida. One of the men is the Pastor of the homosexual church in London. They are having a service of remembrance this week. My husband and I will be going.



https://www.google.ca/webhp?tab=mw&e...ormed+in+utero


edited for spelling

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That is some funky science !
Seriously ... " your sexuality is formed in utero depending on how much testosterone you get".
Please don't confuse what you are being sold in church and what actual science is.
I saw Michael Sam in New York at the NFL draft. He is openly gay and I can assure you he is not lacking any testosterone.

Praise the lord and pass the bullets.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

For the vast majority of humanity it is absolutely a moral issue. Never assume politeness or toleration as acceptance. The vast majority of the human race still view homosexuality as repugnant and repulsive.

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Now you speak for the vast majority of the human race ?!?!



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

That is some funky science !
Seriously ... " your sexuality is formed in utero depending on how much testosterone you get".
Please don't confuse what you are being sold in church and what actual science is.
I saw Michael Sam in New York at the NFL draft. He is openly gay and I can assure you he is not lacking any testosterone.

Praise the lord and pass the bullets.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

LOL That's why I posted the link. I knew it would be a new bit of science for some.

https://www.google.ca/webhp?tab=mw&e...ormed+in+utero

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Now you speak for the vast majority of the human race ?!?!



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No,I speak for common sense. Your straw man just fell flat. Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

LOL That's why I posted the link. I knew it would be a new bit of science for some.

https://www.google.ca/webhp?tab=mw&e...ormed+in+utero

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Oh the Internet ... That's where you go to find " scientific " information to support your religious beliefs.



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Gay or straight who cares. The bible say homosexuality is wrong, but it also condones rape, slavery and taking your brothers wife if he dies. I'm not trying to get in a religious argument but Christians should not judge, that is gods job. Do on to others as you would have done on to you. Even the pope has taken the stand of changing to accept gay worshippers.

Back to the original post it's sad that it happened and sadly there will be another mass shooting sometime this year, wether it's a religious nut, a anti abortion nut, someone who hates cops, or a crazed family member. Something needs to change. I'm not American so I have no business to comment on what needs to be done but I'm glad I don't live in fear everyday that someone will go postal. I'm glad though that the safety of kids is first and foremost and kinder eggs are banned

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Originally Posted by cantcatchacold

Gay or straight who cares. The bible say homosexuality is wrong, but it also condones rape, slavery and taking your brothers wife if he dies. I'm not trying to get in a religious argument but Christians should not judge, that is gods job. Do on to others as you would have done on to you. Even the pope has taken the stand of changing to accept gay worshippers.

Back to the original post it's sad that it happened and sadly there will be another mass shooting sometime this year, wether it's a religious nut, a anti abortion nut, someone who hates cops, or a crazed family member. Something needs to change. I'm not American so I have no business to comment on what needs to be done but I'm glad I don't live in fear everyday that someone will go postal. I'm glad though that the safety of kids is first and foremost and kinder eggs are banned

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Incorrect. What Bible are you reading where it teaches/preaches to followers to condone, support, etc. rape, slavery and taking your brother's widow?

Ever hear of the Old Covenant(Old Testament)? Where it is a historical account vs the New Covenant(New Testament) which is the way followers are to conduct themselves.

I do agree with you on letting GOD judge, however that doesn't prevent any from voicing their beliefs nor stating their opinion in a discussion on either side of an issue. I find homosexuality perverted and repugnant yet I know people can accept Christ, repent and change for the better.

Odd how many gays in that club that night had a "come to Jesus experience" when the 1st rifle primer popped, and I don't blame them.

However the point is the same whether it's a gay, a murderer a slave owner, a rapist or an adulterer, when the rubber hits the road they all grasp at and believe in GOD.
P.C. said and I quote " I made peace with GOD. Just please take me. I don't want any more. I was just begging GOD to take the soul out of my body."

You and others can ridicule, persecute, be exclusive and non tolerant of Christians if you wish. You are also entitled to your own opinions, BUT you are NOT entitled to your own little set of so called "facts" with regards to what the Bible teaches. Simply READ it and see.

And just so you don't paint me with that huge brush, I served on a Gulf Coast HRT and have been stacked at the door on a bang and go and even though I'm a believer/Christian, it made no difference who was inside when the first flash bang went off and it was time to enter.

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Originally Posted by skypilot

Incorrect. What Bible are you reading where it teaches/preaches to followers to condone, support, etc. rape, slavery and taking your brother's widow?

Ever hear of the Old Covenant(Old Testament)? Where it is a historical account vs the New Covenant(New Testament) which is the way followers are to conduct themselves.

I do agree with you on letting GOD judge, however that doesn't prevent any from voicing their beliefs nor stating their opinion in a discussion on either side of an issue. I find homosexuality perverted and repugnant yet I know people can accept Christ, repent and change for the better.

Odd how many gays in that club that night had a "come to Jesus experience" when the 1st rifle primer popped, and I don't blame them.

However the point is the same whether it's a gay, a murderer a slave owner, a rapist or an adulterer, when the rubber hits the road they all grasp at and believe in GOD.
P.C. said and I quote " I made peace with GOD. Just please take me. I don't want any more. I was just begging GOD to take the soul out of my body."

You and others can ridicule, persecute, be exclusive and non tolerant of Christians if you wish. You are also entitled to your own opinions, BUT you are NOT entitled to your own little set of so called "facts" with regards to what the Bible teaches. Simply READ it and see.

And just so you don't paint me with that huge brush, I served on a Gulf Coast HRT and have been stacked at the door on a bang and go and even though I'm a believer/Christian, it made no difference who was inside when the first flash bang went off and it was time to enter.

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The bible is used by fundamentalist Christians for whatever they want it to be used for.

They use the old testament when it suits them and then says the old testament is not the word of Jesus in the same breath, it is all a pile of crap. If you want to read it, follow it and believe it as a guide and to help you be a better person that is fine but you can pick out as much bad and immoral in the bible as good, that is a fact.

What happened was 49 people being gunned down for doing nothing other than being born and being alive as themselves.

What I don't get is that in Canada we can get the same guns, we can get the same magazine capacity (not legally obviously) and we have a similar mix of people yet we do not have more mass shootings in a year than days. Out 20-30 year old males for some reason do not feel that they need to take up arms against a group of people be in a family, a school, a church, a club. What is the difference here? What is within the 6 inches between the ears of the people committing these crimes? It is not the gun, it is not the religion (the majority are white christians), maybe it is something in the water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skypilot

Incorrect. What Bible are you reading where it teaches/preaches to followers to condone, support, etc. rape, slavery and taking your brother's widow?

Ever hear of the Old Covenant(Old Testament)? Where it is a historical account vs the New Covenant(New Testament) which is the way followers are to conduct themselves.

I do agree with you on letting GOD judge, however that doesn't prevent any from voicing their beliefs nor stating their opinion in a discussion on either side of an issue. I find homosexuality perverted and repugnant yet I know people can accept Christ, repent and change for the better.

Odd how many gays in that club that night had a "come to Jesus experience" when the 1st rifle primer popped, and I don't blame them.

However the point is the same whether it's a gay, a murderer a slave owner, a rapist or an adulterer, when the rubber hits the road they all grasp at and believe in GOD.
P.C. said and I quote " I made peace with GOD. Just please take me. I don't want any more. I was just begging GOD to take the soul out of my body."

You and others can ridicule, persecute, be exclusive and non tolerant of Christians if you wish. You are also entitled to your own opinions, BUT you are NOT entitled to your own little set of so called "facts" with regards to what the Bible teaches. Simply READ it and see.

And just so you don't paint me with that huge brush, I served on a Gulf Coast HRT and have been stacked at the door on a bang and go and even though I'm a believer/Christian, it made no difference who was inside when the first flash bang went off and it was time to enter.

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Exodus 21, Deuteronomy 22:25, Mathew 22:24. Again if I'm wrong my apologies

Not once am I ridiculing you or any other persons faith. I'm just saying that the majority of Christians I know that use the whole argument of its wrong because of the bibles teaching pick and choose the teachings of the bible to follow. My religious understanding ended after school, but from what I understand ( and I mean no offence if I'm wrong ) is that we are all made in gods image. We are all one, brothers and sisters under God. So why do we judge based on what people do or how they sin when that is the job of God. Leviticus sates that homosexuality is wrong, but it also states that eating unclean foods is wrong. So why do people judge others for being gay but not for eating certain foods ? Love thy neighbour and do onto others as they would have done onto themselves. Those are bible teachings I agree with.

We may not agree on things but I respect you and everyone's right to believe in whatever you feel is right for you. As pope Francis said " who am I to judge "

If you want to know what Christianity is all about I suggest you read the New Testament - too many people who have a limited knowledge of Christianity keep going into the Old Testament and end getting all mixed up - just a suggestion -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

If you want to know what Christianity is all about I suggest you read the New Testament - too many people who have a limited knowledge of Christianity keep going into the Old Testament and end getting all mixed up - just a suggestion -

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Don't worry, next time you will turn around and use the Old Testament to back up your views, happens all the time, claim it is wrong when you want and the word of God when you want it to.

Boy oh Boy this thread has taken a sharp left turn from the original !:confused:

Pass the popcorn please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cantcatchacold

Exodus 21, Deuteronomy 22:25, Mathew 22:24. Again if I'm wrong my apologies

Not once am I ridiculing you or any other persons faith. I'm just saying that the majority of Christians I know that use the whole argument of its wrong because of the bibles teaching pick and choose the teachings of the bible to follow. My religious understanding ended after school, but from what I understand ( and I mean no offence if I'm wrong ) is that we are all made in gods image. We are all one, brothers and sisters under God. So why do we judge based on what people do or how they sin when that is the job of God. Leviticus sates that homosexuality is wrong, but it also states that eating unclean foods is wrong. So why do people judge others for being gay but not for eating certain foods ? Love thy neighbour and do onto others as they would have done onto themselves. Those are bible teachings I agree with.

We may not agree on things but I respect you and everyone's right to believe in whatever you feel is right for you. As pope Francis said " who am I to judge "

---

Again, the New Testament(new covenant between God and man) did away with Religious LAW(sacrificing animals to ATONE for sin) to Grace, mercy, forgiveness, repentance, and a belief in God, John 3:16, as a way to be a Christian and achieve everlasting life.

Acts 10 9-16 Peter in the New Testament praying on the roof, when God spoke to him about all foods now being clean. Another way of validating the move from the Law to Grace, from Old Testament to New Testament, from old covenant with God to New Covenant with Jesus.

I commend you on the ability to discuss issues. Political correctness should be outlawed so more civil discussions can take place for the sake understanding of all affected.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skypilot

Again, the New Testament(new covenant between God and man) did away with Religious LAW(sacrificing animals to ATONE for sin) to Grace, mercy, forgiveness, repentance, and a belief in God, John 3:16, as a way to be a Christian and achieve everlasting life.

Acts 10 9-16 Peter in the New Testament praying on the roof, when God spoke to him about all foods now being clean. Another way of validating the move from the Law to Grace, from Old Testament to New Testament, from old covenant with God to New Covenant with Jesus.

I commend you on the ability to discuss issues. Political correctness should be outlawed so more civil discussions can take place for the sake understanding of all affected.

---

Thanks for posting that I was unaware of that in the New Testament. No need to commend just engaging in the discussion. Like I said not trying to start a religious debate. One of the things that I found most troubling about the shooting was the statements on social media about how " the sinner gays had it coming ". But I did find this gem on Facebook http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...3143e6cf66.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Oh the Internet ... That's where you go to find " scientific " information to support your religious beliefs.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Mercy . Knowing how your sexual orientation is formed has nothing to do with religion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

The bible is used by fundamentalist Christians for whatever they want it to be used for.

They use the old testament when it suits them and then says the old testament is not the word of Jesus in the same breath, it is all a pile of crap. If you want to read it, follow it and believe it as a guide and to help you be a better person that is fine but you can pick out as much bad and immoral in the bible as good, that is a fact.

What happened was 49 people being gunned down for doing nothing other than being born and being alive as themselves.

What I don't get is that in Canada we can get the same guns, we can get the same magazine capacity (not legally obviously) and we have a similar mix of people yet we do not have more mass shootings in a year than days. Out 20-30 year old males for some reason do not feel that they need to take up arms against a group of people be in a family, a school, a church, a club. What is the difference here? What is within the 6 inches between the ears of the people committing these crimes? It is not the gun, it is not the religion (the majority are white christians), maybe it is something in the water.

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The Old testament is historical and in teaching salvation, points out and gives examples of immorality, especially the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in part because of homosexuality. You act like you just discovered a cure for Cancer with your post. You harp and drum about "fundamentalist" cherry picking then your self righteousness causes you to CHERRYPICK, what a hypocritical post.

Who said "the old testament is not the word of Jesus in the same breath?" Weasel words Fox, deflection, straw man.

Do you THINK it's not coming to Canada or won't come to Canada? Bell Canada every Feb. like clockwork, claims 1 in 5 Canadians are mentally ill. LETS TALK.

I'll ask you the same Fox, Do you think it's the gun? Do you think it's Christianity? The evil "AR 15?" lol. Is it Christians waging jihad? Or is it Christians whom are being persecuted and ridiculed?

Your minister of PS Goodale can't even get the firearm in the Pulse shooting correct. So much for that pathetic, high level federal briefing. I guess he gets his intel from CBC.

In my personal experience with these type shootings, it was bullying or terrorism. The same bullying gays do to bakers when they want to have a same sex marriage and want to FORCE a baker to make them a cake. why not just go elsewhere, I do.

If you have some revelation please share it as the world needs your vast Tactical and Strategic "wisdum" to help us defeat the ideology and prevent these attacks by these inanimate guns and or these dastardly Christians you are so quick to condemn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

^^^^^DITTO!^^^^^ Just because someone has moral values that don't agree with your "politically correct" views certainly doesn't make them ignorant by any stretch.

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Sure it does, 100 years ago we told woman they couldn't vote because they were not smart enough, 75 years ago we made blacks drink from different fountains and go to different schools. Still today we tell two people that they cannot marry and are not entitled to the same rights as others based on there sexual orientation.

The "then in our schools they continue to push the idea that having two mothers is normal and everything is ok" quote takes the cake.

This is ignorance plain and simple. Politically correct ??? Who are you to say two people cannot have a child... Complete BS!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cantcatchacold

Thanks for posting that I was unaware of that in the New Testament. No need to commend just engaging in the discussion. Like I said not trying to start a religious debate. One of the things that I found most troubling about the shooting was the statements on social media about how " the sinner gays had it coming ". But I did find this gem on Facebook http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...3143e6cf66.jpg

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It is a reference to Egypt. Don't be like the Egyptians...Do not shave your head nor square your beard....a characterization of Egyptians. More of a Godly advice for the fleeing Israelites not to become like Egypt.

Levites were a definite sect of Israel (from the tribe of Levi one of the twelve original tribes of Israel)whom only the "preachers"/ Priest could come from in that early day and time.

It is a sad situation when an act like Orlando happens. It is even a more sad day when the "had it coming" crowd arrives, yet it speaks to the misconception that homosexuality is accepted, it simply isn't in America. Tolerated to a point yes.

No one is without sin, we were born into it. The Christian teaching is to be in the world but not "of" the world of sin.
So as a similarity for the sake of discussion, if all the bars with adulterers, criminals and Christians were gunned down the same way, THAT would make it right???(they had it coming???NO). See it just isn't right no matter the clientele.

When I invite others to Church many say I can't because I've been a hypocrite about bla bla bla. I always say no matter, we can always use one more, come anyway.

It's about turning away from sin, encouraging others to consider the same and securing a spiritual legal standing with God. That is Christianity in a nutshell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skypilot

I never in my baseball career from little league thru semi pro ever had a runner fail to get out of my way on a double play at second. NOBODY will take a hardball between the eyes between 1st and 2nd base.......

You're simply wrong, people close enough to "POKE" you will get away from a gun pointed/located right at/next to them ESPECIALLY if running from a guy with a gun slaughtering them.

You're also wrong...cover and concealment are two totally different things. Cover is protective, concealment isn't always.
Cover is good when you've been seen, concealment is good when you haven't been.
You post long posts but not much fact, just a lot of noise and drumming.

Joe can believe what he wants, whether you 4 like it or lump it. You 4 are mighty intolerant of Joe yet you want/expect Joe to be tolerant of your beliefs and have attacked him. Oh the SO TOLERANT showing the proper amount of Political Correctness and manufactured outrage..........

SG the numbers are close but it was 1, then 3(not sure yet if 1 was included in that second gunfight) and then the balance(11 if my info is correct)were Swat in the last gunfight.

Big difference when you both have seen one another and are actively trying to stop one another after the event has begun(1st cop) vs. slaughtering unarmed people and being shot from cover/concealment by a armed bar patron. Which is what Joe was trying to contribute.

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Skypilot,

I am not incorrect in my assertion that people won't be bumping into JoePa as he attempts to shoot his bad guy. People are panicking and panicked people aren't the most reliable to predict. Once a person enters a flight or fight response, anything/anybody they deem a threat will be dealt with in some way which may not be the most logical way. So there is a real possibility JoePa could be bull rushed and knocked around while firing his handgun which now means he has put the entire group in more danger than it already is in (uncontrolled muzzle control while firing).

I understand the difference between cover and concealment. I was not debating the difference between the two. In JoePa's scenario the bad guy has a very real possibility of seeing JoePa which at that point JoePa needs to find cover unless of course JoePa is far enough away (but then he would be starting to draw his firearm before he confirms there is a problem).

As for the length of my posts, I didn't realize I was under a word count. As for not having much fact, my counterpoints are grounded in more reality than JoePa's "if someone was there and armed" fantasy.

No one ever said JoePa doesn't have the right to think what he does. However, he has posted on an open forum and we can debate and refute what he believes. You say we have been intolerant. How so? Disagreeing with someone's point of view isn't intolerant, poking holes in a fantasy where an elderly man some how manages to stop a bad guy in a crowded place without causing collateral damage isn't being intolerant. Intolerance would mean we didn't want to hear what JoePa's position is and we want him to be banned and I have yet to see someone ask for that. Intolerant would be to tell JoePa to leave this website and never post again because his beliefs are wrong but no one has suggested that either. I have never forced my beliefs on JoePa. I don't think this is actually possible over the internet. As for attacking him, I provided actual logic to his fantasy in attempt to show him what his is proposing isn't as cut and dry as he makes it out to be.

I wish this was a matter of simply letting people arm themselves anywhere but the reality is it is way more complicated. 49 people wouldn't have had to die and more injured if it were that simple. There are just as many things which could go wrong in a scenario of an armed civilian walking around public places as there would be of it going right.

Dyth

I don't think I've ever waded into a religious debate on here before, but I'm home with my feet up with gout again and I have time to spare so why not I guess....

It's funny how many come on here and preach tolerance of so many different things yet are completely intolerant of someone's religious beliefs. Personally, I'm not overly religious but I was raised Catholic and my kids go to a Catholic school. We don't push religion on them but wish for them to choose their own path based on what they learn from us and in school. I tend to keep my personal beliefs to myself for a good number of reasons, but the way I see it you anti-religious ranters are so blinded by your absolute hatred of religion that you can't see that you're nothing more than an extremist on the opposite end of the spectrum. I think Hunter John said it well earlier, insulting one's personal beliefs is no better than forcing your views on someone.

Hypocrisy runs out of control around here sometimes, and some folks type a lot faster than they think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Skypilot,

I am not incorrect in my assertion that people won't be bumping into JoePa as he attempts to shoot his bad guy. People are panicking and panicked people aren't the most reliable to predict. Once a person enters a flight or fight response, anything/anybody they deem a threat will be dealt with in some way which may not be the most logical way. So there is a real possibility JoePa could be bull rushed and knocked around while firing his handgun which now means he has put the entire group in more danger than it already is in (uncontrolled muzzle control while firing).

I understand the difference between cover and concealment. I was not debating the difference between the two. In JoePa's scenario the bad guy has a very real possibility of seeing JoePa which at that point JoePa needs to find cover unless of course JoePa is far enough away (but then he would be starting to draw his firearm before he confirms there is a problem).

As for the length of my posts, I didn't realize I was under a word count. As for not having much fact, my counterpoints are grounded in more reality than JoePa's "if someone was there and armed" fantasy.

No one ever said JoePa doesn't have the right to think what he does. However, he has posted on an open forum and we can debate and refute what he believes. You say we have been intolerant. How so? Disagreeing with someone's point of view isn't intolerant, poking holes in a fantasy where an elderly man some how manages to stop a bad guy in a crowded place without causing collateral damage isn't being intolerant. Intolerance would mean we didn't want to hear what JoePa's position is and we want him to be banned and I have yet to see someone ask for that. Intolerant would be to tell JoePa to leave this website and never post again because his beliefs are wrong but no one has suggested that either. I have never forced my beliefs on JoePa. I don't think this is actually possible over the internet. As for attacking him, I provided actual logic to his fantasy in attempt to show him what his is proposing isn't as cut and dry as he makes it out to be.

I wish this was a matter of simply letting people arm themselves anywhere but the reality is it is way more complicated. 49 people wouldn't have had to die and more injured if it were that simple. There are just as many things which could go wrong in a scenario of an armed civilian walking around public places as there would be of it going right.

Dyth

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I believe he posted that he would draw, and fire from behind an object, possibly an overturned table if I remember. Regardless, no one is going to flee into an overturned table or a obstruction in their way. They will go around it. They will also get out of the way of a pointed gun in their immediate proximity, one way or the other.

Once this slaughter was initiated it is no longer a zero sum game. People are already dead and people are going to be hurt and die whether the terrorist shoots them or the Tactical team shoots them. That is the reality of the possibilities.

The possibility of a few(or one) out of 350 people having a gun and getting or having an opportunity to use it a some point in time would be a definite advantage. Much better than no chance, if for no other reason than to break the OODA and cause the shooter to go defensive.

I also can appreciate the data point on his admitted age but that isn't really the focus is it. The focus is on a firearm in the hands of a person for use during an active shooting.

The shooter recognized the uniformed cop, which wasn't an advantage, nor where the other cops that arrived and engaged, but once he got into the area and began the carnage a patron firearm would have been an advantage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cantcatchacold

Thanks for posting that I was unaware of that in the New Testament. No need to commend just engaging in the discussion. Like I said not trying to start a religious debate. One of the things that I found most troubling about the shooting was the statements on social media about how " the sinner gays had it coming ". But I did find this gem on Facebook http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...3143e6cf66.jpg

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It forbids people of God to mark their bodies with the symbols of the other gods. Many early Christians mark small tattoos on their wrist to symbolize the markings of the nails. Although a fish was a more common symbol.. so no tattoos are not forbidden, just marking that symbolize the worship of other gods..

The priests( of old and new testament) and even leaders in the New Testament have a few EXTRA rules.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skypilot

It is a reference to Egypt. Don't be like the Egyptians...Do not shave your head nor square your beard....a characterization of Egyptians. More of a Godly advice for the fleeing Israelites not to become like Egypt.

Levites were a definite sect of Israel (from the tribe of Levi one of the twelve original tribes of Israel)whom only the "preachers"/ Priest could come from in that early day and time.

It is a sad situation when an act like Orlando happens. It is even a more sad day when the "had it coming" crowd arrives, yet it speaks to the misconception that homosexuality is accepted, it simply isn't in America. Tolerated to a point yes.

No one is without sin, we were born into it. The Christian teaching is to be of the world but not "in" the world of sin.
So as a similarity for the sake of discussion, if all the bars with adulterers, criminals and Christians were gunned down the same way, THAT would make it right???(they had it coming???NO). See it just isn't right no matter the clientele.

When I invite others to Church many say I can't because I've been a hypocrite about bla bla bla. I always say no matter, we can always use one more, come anyway.

It's about turning away from sin, encouraging others to consider the same and securing a spiritual legal standing with God. That is Christianity in a nutshell.

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The Christian teaching is to be of the world but not "in" the world of sin.

You have "in" and "of" reversed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

The Christian teaching is to be of the world but not "in" the world of sin.

You have "in" and "of" reversed.

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I will go back and edit it to be correct. I knew better and Thanks Werner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bandwagon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

^^^^^DITTO!^^^^^ Just because someone has moral values that don't agree with your "politically correct" views certainly doesn't make them ignorant by any stretch.

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Sure it does, 100 years ago we told woman they couldn't vote because they were not smart enough, 75 years ago we made blacks drink from different fountains and go to different schools. Still today we tell two people that they cannot marry and are not entitled to the same rights as others based on there sexual orientation.

The "then in our schools they continue to push the idea that having two mothers is normal and everything is ok" quote takes the cake.

This is ignorance plain and simple. Politically correct ??? Who are you to say two people cannot have a child... Complete BS!

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I've been doing my best to just sit back and enjoy the show....... but now I feel the need to throw in my two cents.
The above post is great! Thank you bandwagon!
I'm an atheist. I don't believe any god exists. Does this mean I care if others believe in a god? No.
What you choose to do with your life is your decision. What you choose to believe is your decision.

We live on this planet once. Enjoy it, and do what makes you happy as long as it doesn't hurt others.
A same sex couple getting married, living next to me, or asking for service in an establishment, doesn't hurt anyone.
Let them enjoy their lives the way you're enjoying yours.

PUC

Can anyone explain to me why Rex is still working at CBC, he gets facts right, tells the truth, explains things clearly.... just the opposite of the rest of CBC.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/r...tack-1.3633913



and just so you know there are 151 Canadians on the ISIS kill list.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/i...ians-1.3637214

And even those 151 can't get an ATC from their CFO to protect themselves with a firearm unless they have "numerous", "several," "multiple" or "other" threats or by reasons of money. etc. per the current law? Seems I read where just one threat to one's life wasn't enough for the Gods of Guns to relinquish the Authorization to Carry permit.

Puc' - nice words but doesn't cover the issues - take abortion - I think it is murdering a baby so do I just sit back and let it happen without trying to stop it - do we just tolerate anything someone does - how about two gays adopting a child - do you think this child will grow up normally when it has two fathers - this idea that toleration is a virtue is completely wrong - there is right and wrong in this world -but being an atheist I can see why you would feel the way you do because there are no moral absolutes for you to follow - evil prevails when good men do nothing - I think that there are certain things that are wrong and I will do the best I can to stop them -

And this thought that you can do anything so long as it doesn't hurt anyone - every wrong act hurts someone - maybe not right away but some time down the line it will - If I had two gays living next to me and I think it is wrong do I just accept them and treat them like I would any other properly married couple - no I wouldn't - I don't want to encourage such a life style - and when I kids ask me what is going on I would explain to them how their life style is wrong and don't have anything to do with them - I have a right to feel that way just like you have the right to feel the way you want -

If I feel that same sex marriage is wrong why should I be forced to make a cake for the wedding if I don't want to - or take the wedding pictures if I don't want to - when gays remained in the closet things were somewhat peaceful but since they started pushing their agenda things are and will continue to get more violent as time goes on - all major religions condemn homosexual activity - there is a reason for this -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Puc' - nice words but doesn't cover the issues - take abortion - I think it is murdering a baby so do I just sit back and let it happen without trying to stop it - do we just tolerate anything someone does - how about two gays adopting a child - do you think this child will grow up normally when it has two fathers - this idea that toleration is a virtue is completely wrong - there is right and wrong in this world -but being an atheist I can see why you would feel the way you do because there are no moral absolutes for you to follow - evil prevails when good men do nothing - I think that there are certain things that are wrong and I will do the best I can to stop them -

And this thought that you can do anything so long as it doesn't hurt anyone - every wrong act hurts someone - maybe not right away but some time down the line it will - If I had two gays living next to me and I think it is wrong do I just accept them and treat them like I would any other properly married couple - no I wouldn't - I don't want to encourage such a life style - and when I kids ask me what is going on I would explain to them how their life style is wrong and don't have anything to do with them - I have a right to feel that way just like you have the right to feel the way you want -

If I feel that same sex marriage is wrong why should I be forced to make a cake for the wedding if I don't want to - or take the wedding pictures if I don't want to - when gays remained in the closet things were somewhat peaceful but since they started pushing their agenda things are and will continue to get more violent as time goes on - all major religions condemn homosexual activity - there is a reason for this -

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You need to go back to an era before the internet, then maybe you would keep your hate in your own brain

Point 1) Unless you are in a situation where you actually have to make a serious decision about abortion please keep quiet.

Point 2) 2 gay guys adopting a child, I have no problems with this, if you speak of yourself as "normal" I hope no child grows up normal. I grew up with many people who were not loved by their parents, they would have been well served to have 2 dads or 2 moms that loved them over a set of parents that did not care.

Point 3) Morality is irreverent to religion and I roll my eyes every time I hear people say that the bible has to be there so people are not bad, here is a link to look at but I know you will not http://www.evilbible.com/

Point 4) If you treat the 2 gay guys next door as if they are anything but the same as you then you are going directly against the teachings of Jesus for which you preach

Point 5) All major religions are there to make as many followers as possible, hence why birth control is evil, even if it means saving the life of the woman. Homosexuality is something that exists in every single species on the face of the earth and is documented in humanity since the beginning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Puc' - nice words but doesn't cover the issues - take abortion - I think it is murdering a baby so do I just sit back and let it happen without trying to stop it - do we just tolerate anything someone does - how about two gays adopting a child - do you think this child will grow up normally when it has two fathers - this idea that toleration is a virtue is completely wrong - there is right and wrong in this world -but being an atheist I can see why you would feel the way you do because there are no moral absolutes for you to follow - evil prevails when good men do nothing - I think that there are certain things that are wrong and I will do the best I can to stop them -

And this thought that you can do anything so long as it doesn't hurt anyone - every wrong act hurts someone - maybe not right away but some time down the line it will - If I had two gays living next to me and I think it is wrong do I just accept them and treat them like I would any other properly married couple - no I wouldn't - I don't want to encourage such a life style - and when I kids ask me what is going on I would explain to them how their life style is wrong and don't have anything to do with them - I have a right to feel that way just like you have the right to feel the way you want -

If I feel that same sex marriage is wrong why should I be forced to make a cake for the wedding if I don't want to - or take the wedding pictures if I don't want to - when gays remained in the closet things were somewhat peaceful but since they started pushing their agenda things are and will continue to get more violent as time goes on - all major religions condemn homosexual activity - there is a reason for this -

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As they piloted the jets into the world trade centre I can imagine them reciting something similar to this from the Quran.


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Originally Posted by stragglelake

As they piloted the jets into the world trade centre I can imagine them reciting something similar to this from the Quran.


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Or sending Jewish people and other undesirables into the death camps.

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

As they piloted the jets into the world trade centre I can imagine them reciting something similar to this from the Quran.


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Indeed .....as a Christian man JoePa's statements scare me but they are his beliefs or his interpretation. I have no issue with a gay couple being married or joined together by the justice of the peace or by a liberal minded minister. In the eyes of God they will not be married or a holy marriage recognized by God no matter what the earthly law states . They will face their maker and only God will be the judge based on his teachings.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...177cde1653.jpg


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IF there is a God, it's pretty obvious he gave up on us a while ago and he is watching the show, or he just needs to retired and put someone new in charge cause in my eyes he might have been a great creator but a hell of a bad manager....

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...177cde1653.jpg


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Sad how some come up stupid pictures to justify their ideologue attitudes, no distinction between religions or truth just an idiotic picture drawn by an idiotic ignorant person..


As for the moon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vvNxhlP1jA


“For me, science is very, very good at answering lots of questions but … not all questions. If you say to me let’s talk about how the universe came into existence, we can talk about that scientifically. If we start talking about another question like ‘What’s the point of life?’ or ‘Why are we here?’ that’s a different kind of question. I don’t think science answers that but I think there are answers we can find.” Alister McGrath Phd Molecular BioPhysics

As for science it is good at some items like creating medicines and nuclear weapons but not at how and why they should be used.

If you are interested in Science I can suggest some books by John Polkinghorne (Prof. of Quantum Physics) or Alister McGrath Phd Molecular BioPhysics or Francis Collins, Director of the Human Genome Project.
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No one asked for your stupid science video


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Originally Posted by stragglelake

No one asked for your stupid science video


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No one asked for your stupid picture,

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...177cde1653.jpg


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All I did was to point out the delusional and ignorant attitude of the image, the quote from the Apollo 8 astronauts shows it clearly.

Cue the lock clicking shut any second now.

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Originally Posted by mosquito

No one asked for your stupid picture, it was you that started it with that, I just pointed out the ignorance of your image.

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No one asked for your opinion.
It's a public forum with more that one opinion and viewpoint.
No need to call people's posts stupid. Unless you want the same done to yours.
What's the saying ?
Do un to others ?

Try a little love instead of all the hate. Life is short.


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Originally Posted by Species8472

Cue the lock clicking shut any second now.

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Should have awhile ago.... the ideologues have crawled out of their troll caves.

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

No one asked for your opinion.
It's a public forum with more that one opinion and viewpoint.
No need to call people's posts stupid. Unless you want the same done to yours.
What's the saying ?
Do un to others ?

Try a little love instead of all the hate. Life is short.


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OK... so... you insult people, then get mad when the ignorance and delusional nature of the statement is revealed..... sad. You put up a cartoon... I put up 3 Phd's and you go balistic... I guess you only like open forms when it agrees with your ideology then... must vote Liberal or NDP.

Who did I insult ?
The terrorist flying those planes did so because of religious beliefs.
Did that offend you ?


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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Who did I insult ?
The terrorist flying those planes did so because of religious beliefs.
Did that offend you ?


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A generalization that portraits all religions as equal without consideration of those within that religion that disagree, the victims that were of that same religion and the believers in other religions .... yep, I would say you owe 7 billion apologies.

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Originally Posted by mosquito

A generalization that portraits all religions as equal without consideration of those within that religion that disagree, the victims that were of that same religion and the believers in other religions .... yep, I would say you owe 7 billion apologies.

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That's some good word salad !


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[QUOTE=Fox;978235]You need to go back to an era before the internet, then maybe you would keep your hate in your own brain

Point 1) Unless you are in a situation where you actually have to make a serious decision about abortion please keep quiet.

Point 2) 2 gay guys adopting a child, I have no problems with this, if you speak of yourself as "normal" I hope no child grows up normal. I grew up with many people who were not loved by their parents, they would have been well served to have 2 dads or 2 moms that loved them over a set of parents that did not care.

Point 3) Morality is irreverent to religion and I roll my eyes every time I hear people say that the bible has to be there so people are not bad, here is a link to look at but I know you will not http://www.evilbible.com/

Point 4) If you treat the 2 gay guys next door as if they are anything but the same as you then you are going directly against the teachings of Jesus for which you preach

Point 5) All major religions are there to make as many followers as possible, hence why birth control is evil, even if it means saving the life of the woman. Homosexuality is something that exists in every single species on the face of the earth and is documented in humanity since the beginning.[/QUOTE


Boy Fox - your something else - just because I don't agree with the gay agenda - I'm hateful - I can't express my opinion on any matter if it doesn't agree with what you think - with your way of thinking in order to be a not hateful guy I got to agree with everything - if I had two gays living next to me and I don't bother with them doesn't mean I hate them - Jesus never said that I have be pals with them - where the heck are you coming from - and as far as being normal - I'll bet you any money there are a heck of a lot more people who think the way I do then think the way you do -

You and your buddy Stagg' sound like the PC bunch - if you don't agree with homosexuals - your hateful - if you say that 73 % of black children are born out of wedlock - your racist - if you are against abortion - your flying planes into buildings - but you know something - complain all you want - I gonna keep on telling the truth - because some day - yes some day you guys might see the light - there is always hope - and do show you that I love my neighbor - I will keep you in my prayers - Amen

I personally don't care if your Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Hindu, stick it in men, stick it in women, stick it in a tree, tall, short, green, red, black....... Just hold the door for people, smile, say please and thank you's. Enjoy life man, It's way too short to care what others are doing if it doesn't hurt you............

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Originally Posted by LiveBates

I personally don't care if your Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Hindu, stick it in men, stick it in women, stick it in a tree, tall, short, green, red, black....... Just hold the door for people, smile, say please and thank you's. Enjoy life man, It's way too short to care what others are doing if it doesn't hurt you............

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Agreed.


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Meanwhile back at the ranch -

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Meanwhile back at the ranch -

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Are you still going to pray for me ?


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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Are you still going to pray for me ?


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NO - I stopped cause its hopeless - I'll save my prayers for when I go fishing -

The Golden Rule - do unto others as they would do unto you - here is a prime example of that rule -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnDVW07_1c

Come on now guys lets stop fighting.. We all know they just sent astronauts to Sudbury

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Originally Posted by JoePa

NO - I stopped cause its hopeless - I'll save my prayers for when I go fishing -

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Quinte this fall Joe

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Originally Posted by LiveBates

I personally don't care if your Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Hindu, stick it in men, stick it in women, stick it in a tree, tall, short, green, red, black....... Just hold the door for people, smile, say please and thank you's. Enjoy life man, It's way too short to care what others are doing if it doesn't hurt you............

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Couldn't agree more!

PUC

[COLOR=#333333]I can't express my opinion on any matter if it doesn't agree with what you think - with your way of thinking

Nope,often not without being jumped on but becareful Joe. You might be penalized two minutes for defending your opinion. :)