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With some help from smokeeter a while back, I have finally bit the bullet and am modifying one of my ML's. The Savage is going to get a new 45 Brux barrel and arrowhead plug.
I also opted for the full form sizing die so I have no intention of running sabots. John Grech will put this together for me and complete the build.
The savage currently shoots well but I've had it with sabots and their inconsistencies.
I expect great things!
Looking forward to some pics of the build and a range report when you get it back. What's the timeline for completion? Cheers B525
Parts will import from us at end of July. I'll have it by mid August and have the parts to John at that time. From there it's up to him time wise and he is a busy fellow. Hoping for end of September.
If all goes well I will post the road map for others to follow. All three vendors have expressed interest in this as a possibility. It allows fellows that aren't smiths to have a great rifle built for them if they choose.
and great things will happen, you won't regret it. Just might have to hone your shooting skills ( no more blaming the gun)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Haha
Yes I expect that. I have a nice 700mls sitting here as another donor. What to do with that one.... Maybe a nice 358 or 375?
I will probably sell my PRBullet 700 build I had done and fund another build....
A 45 pacnor is in my future, I will be watching this thread.
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You're messing with savage ML perfection. Foolish foolish. Funny how the heat of smokeless buggers with sabots huh? I think I read that on here a while back ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
I was waiting for this haha
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Yes I owe you an apology for being such an a s s at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
I will say one thing for those staying with sabots. Try the Rem accutips for the UML. They seem to handle heat much better.
My Savage 10ml-11 performed flawlessly during last season's controlled hunt & sighting in session. I don't shoot it a lot so maybe if I did I would find some issues with it... lol
I am of the mindset that if it ain't broke don't mess with it... :)
Not a thing wrong with a stock savage. They shoot well and are very capable gun. I want ability to 300 yards and have confidence in my shooting iron. This is the only reason I'm making the change.
300 Yards? That is amazing with a M/L.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
My longest shot with a gun while deer hunting was 50 yards. I can't seem to shake the bow hunting mentality to get as close as possible for that kill shot.. :)
More amazing, the skill that is reqiuired; for example a .45 cal 300 gr bullet will need about 5" hold over to zero at 200 yds and the bullet trajectory will drop -20+" at the 300 yds. ...lots of calculations, need almost the same formula they use for a mortar round ..LOL...Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
I'm the same, all my hunt stand set ups work with bow....so with the ML it's just natural to shoot less than 50yds.Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
You do realize that when you hear someone say "There's not a thing wrong with a stock tikka" that usually isn't followed by significant changes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
To be remembered is how few of us conclude things with pics and stories of woundingsQuote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
You must hate every kind of firearm. Stick with the slingshot there champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
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Easy now you'll work yourself into a latherQuote:
Originally Posted by rippin_355
Ah Mike, so ya wound one. There'll be another along. I've never said these words on here as some have when talking about shooting, but. There's always a first. I DON'T CARE WHAT KIND OF LOAD WITH WHAT KIND OF BULLET,300 WITH AN ML IS IRRESPONSIBLE !!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I can make a tikka shoot better than factory so what's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
I utilized the Savage because it made the most sense not because any failings on its part. It was great to 200 but neither my PR 700 build or Savage felt comfortable and consistent at 300. I practice at this range constantly. I found the weak point to be the sabot.
Mike lots of scopes allow for the bullet drop. The 358 ml will sling a 200 grain pill at 2800 fps easily, the .458 will run at 2700 fps. It takes practice but it SHOULD be perfectly doable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Hmm well if my gun is repeatable and accurate to 300 I will kill deer with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
The savage would easily hold MOA to 200 yards before this change.
I remember now - you were the fellow who chirped on about 3-400 fps MV not making any real difference down range or some Bullshyte ..... Right. That .458 should be carrying 1500+/- fps at 300 yards. Let me point out that most 12 gauge slugs barely make that out of the muzzle. Guess it's irresponsible to use those terrible guns.
Have any of the negative Nancy's on here even built one of these custom ML's?
Speak from experience not from your a s s.
I'm telling you what I expect to see. If I don't feel that either of these guns will do the job at 300 as expected, my range will be shortened as required. No interest in wounding anything.
BTW- trying to make a 50 yard shot with a compound or long bow is a hell of a lot harder than making a 300 yard shot with a gun.
Correct. I wouldn't use a SG slug past 50 ydsQuote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Published MV of a standard Federal rifle slug is 1300 fps. At 50 it's about 1000 fps....Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
But hey let's not shoot to 300 with that MZ cause magic ferry dust somehow destabilizes that bullet that is still pushing 1500 fps... Just shy of 1700 foot pounds energy which is just terrible.
Thats my issue with your comments.
Have you built and shot one of these guns?
Maybe I'll be pissing my money away on this - I won't know till I pull the trigger and see what the chrony says. With that size of bullet the labradar should track velocity to 150 yards. The other one which is a 358 has already apparently been proven to shoot under 1 inch at 300. That's with a 200 grain TTSX. Guess I will know soon enough if it's a pile of BS.
Not being factious, I understand the passion; my buddy is a fanatical long range shooter (ground hog head shots at 400+ yds) but this thread go me pondering while I was walking the dogsQuote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
I always figured there is a point of diminished returns with the costs/efforts associated in developing an ML and load to get the flattest trajectory thru velocity when drop compensation can be done with the scope. I think I questioned you on that once before.
However, you make a good point about ensuring that there is enough kinetic energy (via increased velocity ) for the bullet to successfully be able to 'kill' at that distance...I was tending to relate only to paper results in which case the energy component is not an issue. Logic that clarifies your efforts.
Hope this works out well for you...
This is like an argument you might have with an older fella at Timmy's about fuel injection over carburetors. And yes I understand the difference between engine management over shooting an animal. Before some ill-informed individual cries bloody murder over evolution of firearms.
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Had one on a ruger frame. Before savage even heard the word ML, and none of us were much into ML at all. Can't remember the fools NAME though, but first NAME was Ron. Joke of a ML smith. Anyhoo still wouldn't make one my weapon of choice much past 150. AND WITH A PLASTIC MEDIUM YOU CAN NOT GUARANTEE MOAQuote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Hey Jack I hear they're going to be new issue to mil snipers ;)
Why are you jumping all over a guy who shared the details of his build ?Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
YOU might not be confident at 300 yards but if he shoots a lot and is confident at that range, who are we to question ? There are a lot of guys who shouldn't be shooting at anything past 50 yards.....are you in that group ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
I'm sure Jack will tell us boldly of all misses and wounds. YA Right
Oh PS. Yes I'm in the 50 and under group. Please make it yds though cause the extra 4 yds if it was metres would be too much
I take back everything I said. I'm sure it'll be a laser
You really don't pay much attention do you? My build will be sabot less.... .458 Full Form bullets in a .45 cal barrel. Do you understand? The other coming will be .358 again sabot less. That means no sabot .358 bullet in a .35 cal barrelQuote:
Originally Posted by standup
Just so you get it my bullets will go through a swing lock die to engrave the rifling in the bullet.
For the record though I have owned 5 saboted smokeless ML that would hold MOA to 200 yards.
You really are a sour SOB.Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
I share my good and bad. You can wound a deer as easily at 50 as you can at 300.Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
In 25 years I've wounded one deer - just one....
The mistake was not considering my trajectory given the elevation from my deer stand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Thanks for your comments.
I will be posting all the details on these builds so that anyone who wishes to do a build similar to mine might save some leg work and time as others on this forum have done for me. If I was in a rifle WMU I wouldn't be doing this.
That's the point of going sabotless. To get away from the plastic sabot. Why don't you try out that google thing and have a gander. Lots if guys are doing this and have been for a while. MOA at distance is possible with the right load ans equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
https://www.gunwerks.com/store/rifle...-53-56-104-126
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I'll dip it in maple syrup next time ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
But seriously I think the issue here is coming from two different worlds. I use a ML for cold season brush hunting out to 50-60 yds with a rock hard soup can bullet to cut brush. I use a rifle for rifle type things. I'm not usually one of the safety preachers here and don't like em but will say this. Whether you can hit jack or not (pardon the pun) you guys in GTA get projectiles flying the distances your 30/06's you now can't use flew you may loose them too
It is definitely a concern. I use a 243 and 270 for yote here and the 243 is pushing a 58 grain pill close to 3900 fps as per the chrony. 270 is throwing 110 vmax somewhere around 3300 fps if I remember right. Only difference is if those bullets hit anything they go to pieces. A lot of guys just use sp ammo though so I don't see much difference safety wise with those.Quote:
Originally Posted by standup
We also don't push bush. It's still hunting only so you have a tree stand and a safe shooting lane and that's it.Everybody knows where everybody is and nobody is on the ground. I worry about safety even with shotguns to be honest.
My ultimate goal is to send a pill to 300 accurately using a DOA scope. All my rifles do this well and I have some excellent accurate loads to accomplish the task. Just can't use them for deer!
This is my last try at ML 300 yard game. If these two won't cut it, I'll simply go back to the 220 bolt and be comfortable at 200 yards knowing that's my limit.
I don't live in the GTA or anywhere near. I have two muzzleloading weeks. Thats why I bought my junk Savage. I want to make the most of my hunting time and maximize my chances of filling my tag. Why use a muzzleloader unless you have to. Unless you are a traditionalist theres is no point. Might as well use a 30-30 for a quick follow up shot when your 'brush cutting' round hits a twig and takes out a deer's back leg. It's a myth!
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Wow..how to alienate everyone on this forum...saying stuff like that in here one might start to think your a troll :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rippin_355
I hunt the controlled hunt in 92B. It is muzzleloader only. So I bought a savage 10ml II & smokeless powder is the cat's meow. I laugh @ my buddies scrubbing & cleaning there barrels after they shoot. I just let the barrel cool,reload & smile. They hate me sometimes... LOL
Truthfully I would rather be in a tree-stand with my crossbow anytime. Gun hunting is OK but I prefer archery over all forms of hunting...
Running a swab down the barrel is hardly 'scrubbing' and is just cleaning the barrel as part of the re-load process....far less time and effort than is required to prep your brass and reload your cartridges with your press etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
Unless of course, you're one of those guys that buys your ammo pre-loaded at CT....what fun is that..LOL..
So everyone on this form is a traditionalist? It was in response to Standup's continued bashing of anything he can't seem to understand. Troll's live under a bridge, not me!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
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I don't prep any brass or re-load cartridges. I shoot a stock Savage 10mlii. Groups just fine for me @ 100 yards. I am not messing with it...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MikePal