I knew that something like this was going to happen - cops have been mistreating people for a long time and finally they are getting sick of it - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/08...hief-says.html
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I knew that something like this was going to happen - cops have been mistreating people for a long time and finally they are getting sick of it - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/08...hief-says.html
Joe I worry about your country. you have two candidates for the POTUS who are either an idiot or a criminal. your streets are starting to resemble Baghdad's. your media is doing nothing but fan the flames on both the left and right. I just hope you don't implode before the newly elected presidents first term is up.
You are reaping the benefit of your gun culture. Enjoy!!!! It's going to get worse !Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Sadly, last nights events should not have been unexpected. Some would say the media are doing their job and some would say they are fanning the flames, I can see both.
I call BS on thatQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
We will see !Quote:
Originally Posted by bardern
Just the opposite - the citizens have the guns to fight back and stop the government agents from running rough shot over them - if the citizens didn't have the guns there would be no way to stop the government agents from enslaving them - look at history - in Germany, Russia, China, Cambodia .etc etc - it was the agents of the government that killed and imprisoned the citizens - at least here in America the people can fight back - if there is a wrong you can peacefully demonstrate until the cows come home before anything is done - if ever - sometimes it takes violence to get attention -Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Yeah I don't agree with that. One idiot goes off the rails and now you paint a nation with that brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Come on, we lost a few mounties out east if you recall with one of our own citizens to blame.
Please explain how your citizens having firearms gives them the ability to fight back against the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePaJust the opposite - the citizens have the guns to fight back and stop the government agents from running rough shot over them - if the citizens didn't have the guns there would be no way to stop the government agents from enslaving them - look at history - in Germany, Russia, China, Cambodia .etc etc - it was the agents of the government that killed and imprisoned the citizens - at least here in America the people can fight back - if there is a wrong you can peacefully demonstrate until the cows come home before anything is done - if ever - sometimes it takes violence to get attention -Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
We are not talking about situations like the countries you listed.
We are talking about visible minorities being shot by police. Both of which were carrying what would be classified up here as restricted firearms.
What happened in both cases is a tragedy, but I have to wonder if it would have happened here?
As for your 'right' to carry so you can fight back against the government, I don't see it that way.
Both of these men are dead. Now 5 police officers in a completely different city are dead. And I'm sure the person/people who shot them will be convicted and put to death in Texas.
How is this successfully fighting back against the government?
People will take notice and ask why is this happening - and maybe - just maybe people will realize that the relationship between cops and the general public is not good and cops will have to start acting within the law - cops are agents of the government and they have the power of the government behind them - our 2nd amendment was written because our forefathers knew that power corrupts and the citizens should have a means to resist the government when necessary - don't take lightly the power that a few armed men can do to change things
Are we talking about situations like in those countries mentioned - I say yes - when our government rounded up the Japanese and Italians during WWII - or when government agents actively discriminate against certain peoples - or when the Jews were rounded up in Germany - same thing - remember - an armed citizenry is a free citizenry -
Let's wait for an investigation before we can give an opinion, right!?
I agree 100 percent with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
My oldest brother, brains up the ying yang, highly educated, possesses a wall to wall to wall gun collection and a member of the NRA always said the U.S. has a major problem with their gun culture. This was 40 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Wow. Does help me understand how many ? Americans think though Joe. Scary. So glad I live in Canada.
( Those Officers had parents , wives and children probably. Very sad.)
I have a personal friend who has worked as a police officer & lawyer in both Canada and the U.S. (in a major city with one of the highest crime rates in the country). The stories he has are almost beyond belief - constant action, tonnes of violent crime, and a workplace where most police officers burned out within a few years.
Policing in an American major city was literally a completely different job than it was in a Canadian major city. He said he drew his weapon more in a week than he would have in an entire career of Canadian policing. He was directly involved in a shooting of an armed person who was acting in a threatening manner and too many chases to list. He said that things that would be "high priority" in Canada (e.g. domestic dispute) were simply not a priority in the American city he worked in because they were dealing with so much "immediate response" violent crime.
I have no idea what the solution is for the Americans on this issue. So many deeply rooted inequities (racial, economic, etc.) that one hardly knows where to begin.
the one question that no side likes to discuss is when is it appropriate for citizens to take up arms.
IMHO, not absolutely every idiot (and therefore criminals) should be encouraged to get firearms.
but if you do so (which you guys down south have done long after the British left and law/order was introduced to the West), you eventually end up with a significant proportion of the population carrying defense weapons (i.e. purposely built to kill/harm humans).
I don't have any clue how to stop the cycle either - for the record, (legal) gun control is certainly not the right answer at this point in the game!
fact is that citizens don't fight the US government at all. If you were making any attempts to fight, you wouldn't have so much bureaucracy (Well, who are we up here to say that, eh).
the government argument is in itself valid, but it does not apply to the US for over two centuries
US citizens want (as an individual) / need (as a society) guns to protect themselves from fellow citizens. in any other developed country that would be called a civil war.
PS: while this has been perceived as "cultural" aspect in the past, the latest racial movements could provide possibly breeding grounds for rather bloody riots - and then you have your government fighting the poor citizens
48-62 years......... depending on what and when one benchmarks as the start of a movement of de-segregation, elimination of "separate but equal", integration, affirmative action, quotas, equality, etc. and yet we seem to be back at the same general starting point we were at in the 1960s once again.
This is relevant again it seems.........
https://youtu.be/gp5JCrSXkJY
So true ......!
Yes - it was a very sad event - feel very sorry for the dead cops and their families - feel sorry for the black guys that got shot - who is to blame? - why are people so mad at cops? - is it the cops that caused such an event to happen? - you tell me - people are angry in this country - just look at what happened a few days ago - you got a person who has money and influence breaks all kinds of laws - lies and lies about everything and nothing happens to her - lied under oath too - if this was the average Joe - he'd be in jail - all it is going to take is some disaster to happen - either natural or man made and this country is going to explode
The FBI and hillary have set a pathetically low bar now for security clearances. I feel sorry for Gen. Patraeus and many others that lost their clearances over lesser issues like finances, DUI, potentially embarrassing the Agency, protecting loved ones, association with wonky "friends" etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
I hope her and all her guilty staff are completely denied any and all clearances for life.
There are huge inequities in America that have been ignored, but now the ship is hitting the sand of Middle to Upper class with the BS liberal agenda and Obama and his minions twisting the screws, killing the economy, kissing Iran's azz, fighting with one hand, and showing a limp wrist. All of which has pitted brother against brother and incited anger in all.
Cops have two choices, continue to serve and protect or throw up their persecuted hands and watch from the sidelines. Ask Chiraq and Boston how that sideline game is working out.
Let obama, hillary, bloomberg, de blasio, emanuel, feinstein, jesse, sharpton and there ilk patrol the streets.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/authorities-highway-gunman-motivated-police-shootings-40441360
[COLOR=#333333]A black Army veteran accused of shooting indiscriminately at passing cars and police on a Tennessee highway told investigators he was troubled by police violence against African-Americans, authorities said Friday.
[COLOR=#333333]It was one of several spasms of violence across the country this week amid boiling tensions over policing and race. One woman died and three others, including one police officer, were injured in the rampage early Thursday morning.
[COLOR=#333333]Meanwhile, police say officers have been targeted in Georgia and Missouri in the aftermath of two high-profile killings of black men by law enforcement and the Dallas attack that left five officers dead and seven more wounded. Other departments reported being bombarded with threats and some implemented new policies requiring officers to patrol in pairs.
[COLOR=#333333]Civilians also have been caught in the fray. The woman who died in Tennessee was a newspaper carrier driving down the highway.
[COLOR=#333333]The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said in a news release that the preliminary investigation revealed that the suspect, 37-year-old former soldier Lakeem Keon Scott, who is black, was troubled by the incidents in other states, hundreds of miles away. All those shot were white, police said.
[COLOR=#333333]His cousin Sarah Scott said she is so close to him he called her "sister." She said she is shocked by the allegation he was enraged by police violence against African-Americans.
[COLOR=#333333]"He's into his culture, he really is; but never would he hurt anybody," she said. She called him an "open, big-hearted person."
[COLOR=#333333]Scott — allegedly armed with an assault rifle, a pistol and a large amount of ammunition — was wounded in a shootout with police early Thursday and remains hospitalized. Police were not able to interview him until late Friday morning, according to a statement from the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.
[COLOR=#333333]Hours before, as Scott was in the hospital, 12 officers were shot at a Black Lives Matter protest in Dallas. Police say the sniper declared he was angry about the police shootings of black men and wanted to exterminate whites. Five of the officers died.
[COLOR=#333333]In south Georgia, police said one officer was ambushed Friday when he came to an apartment complex to investigate a report of a break-in. Another officer was fired upon by a motorist north of Atlanta. And just outside St. Louis, police say an officer was ambushed during a traffic stop.
A little more than a year ago, or 2 we had numerous threads following a take down somewhere, where the guy started having trouble breathing, and about 8 officers watched him die. This was just after the riots in Ferguson.
took some heat for talking about the "Public Trust". Why accountability for those who have power over the public , be they politicians, bankers on Wall Street, or LEO is so important. Why, anytime cops here cross the line, or screw up I am afamamant that heads need to roll. Said it way back then, when the public trust erodes, anarchy steps in and ultimately the men (and women) I'm blue pay the prices.
sadly today a number have.
*******
Joe is right in so much as it starts at the top. Elected officials who aren't held accountable, LEO and more.
Not sure we should be too smug though, we aren't that far behind
/points at the corruption in Queens Park
/points at G20 and only one middle level scape goat (Blair??)
/points at Sammy Yatim and others
/points at officers collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars for years while suspended for serious crimes
/points at growing distrust of both Leo and politicians here.
and no accountability.
thankfully at least here in Canada, those of us in "banking/Bay street" take it seriously and heads do roll. And the distrust there isn't as bad as the distrust of/on wall street
3 strikes and your.....
Do you think her lies over using a private server for email will have a bigger cultural impact on GwB lies about Iraq ? I don't know how many died over her emails but I'm willing to bet not as many American lives compared to lies about why you needed to go to IraqQuote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
And so it begins....Quote:
Originally Posted by bardern
http://www.citynews.ca/2016/07/09/ho...-wielding-man/
Citizens with guns trying to stop the Gov. always loose.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Just look at what happened in 1992 in Idaho, Ruby Ridge, 93 Waco Texas, Cliven Bundy in Nevada and in Portland Oregon, the Gov. always wins.
I hear what your saying - the only difference I think is that with Bush - from what I have read - is that everyone was telling him that Iraq was making weapons of mass destruction - that includes other countries - he believed what he was being told - him lying about it is speculation at bestQuote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
JoePa, answer this question for me , Where were all the armed people in Dallas during this shooting ?
In Texas /Dallas , where people can carry handguns anywhere , all i see in the videos is people running helter skelter , and not anyone anywhere was there to stop this gunman from shooting those cops.
Where were all these brave armed citizens when it comes down to the real thing ?
Then there are incidents like - Cuba, American Revolution , the Russian Revolution and every other revolution that has occurred where the people throw over the government - it can be done when enough people get fed up with the government -Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
That all happened way back in History, the world has changed [ American Revolution , the Russian Revolution ] and Gov.Forces have gotten much bigger and Powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
You're telling me that you would stand up against the firepower of the U.S. Army , with your handgun and hunting rifle , come on JOE , even you cant be that naive to think you would win.
The last thing someone should do is get their gun and show up at a place where the cops were being shot at - the cops may think that you are one of the shooters and shoot you - then remember most people have guns for self protection - not for aiding the cops in any shootout - after all the cops are getting paid for what they do - then there are a lot of people who don't like cops and the last thing they will do is help the copsQuote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Whatever Joe, you waffle from one side to the other, have it your way which ever way it is that you want to go at the time ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
[QUOTE=jaycee;980177]That all happened way back in History, the world has changed [ American Revolution , the Russian Revolution ] and Gov.Forces have gotten much bigger and Powerful.
You're telling me that you would stand up against the firepower of the U.S. Army , with your handgun and hunting rifle , come on JOE , even you cant be that naive to think you would win.[/QUO
All that is needed to change a government is to eliminate some key people in that government - remember it was one guy who started WWI - it isn't a given that the Army would fight against its own citizens and maybe even against members of some soldiers' own family -when there is enough people fighting the government - just think of what would have happened if someone shot Hitler as he was rising to power - the course of human history would have changed - a determined man with a gun can change history - remember that -
Apparently the shooter in Dallas used an SKS. You can near buy those things in convenience stores here for less than a decent pellet gun. When Trudough tires of globe trotting you can expect him to reclassify those into prohibited land.
Yes he would be remembered as being "shot dead ", not my way of wanting to be remembered.Quote:
[COLOR=#333333] a determined man with a gun can change history - remember that -
Oswald et al certainly did !Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Oh Yes!, [[COLOR=#333333]a determined man with a gun can change history - remember that -]Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Remember these ? Lincoln, the man with a gun- John Wilkes Booth= died by- shot dead!
Garfield,the man with the gun-Guiteau = died by- hanging
McKinley, the man with the gun-Czolgosz = died by electric chair
Kennedy as was mentioned above.
Their assassins were " all determined men with a gun" look what it got them , also another determined man with a gun was the reason a great war was started in Europe which involved the whole world.
Here is a video that pretty much tells why people - especially black people are mad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxyQtvv_1i8
A lot of men died in the wars fighting for a cause - the people mentioned died for what they thought was a good cause - we all have to die sometime - they did change history didn't they -Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
To what point ? unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Headlines in todays paper " Dallas Killings fuel national crisis " all because of a despicable "determined man with a gun"
]First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Niemoller
"When injustice becomes law, then resistance is duty" - Thomas Jefferson
You can come up with all kinds of poignant sayings but the bottom line is too many guns in the hands of too many crazies.
3 more dead in Michigan today.
Only three - heck in Chicago over the past 4th of July weekend 62 were shot and 4 were killed - what do we learn from this - must be some poor shots in ChicagoQuote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Usual .... blame access to the gun... they blame access to guns but from what I understand about the shooter, if he wouldn't qualify for a firearm .... very few in Canada and US would! .... maybe that's what Libs want, didn't Rock say only police and military should have firearms and I guess that means active ones.
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...ings-aftermath
"there were no clues this 25-year-old man was on the brink of a mass murder of police"
It would be nice if they blamed the cigarette, the liquor and baseball bats for the crimes they ware involved in..... huge reduction in cancer, thousands saved from driving and domestic violence, the skydome would make a great aquarium etc. ... or with stats saying 50%+ being gang related violence and better yet why don't they start blaming gangs and start doing the long term and hard work of trying to rebuild, educate and change the environment that results in kids joining gangs.
"trying to rebuild, educate ad change the environment that results in kids joining gangs." - yes I agree but sadly it will never happen - its hopeless - the culture that exists in the big city black population where the basic foundation of a society - the family - doesn't exist will be needed and that isn't even recognized - or even considered racist when brought up - so life goes on in cities like Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Oh... it can be done, by dedicated people, without profit and with integrity.... but we are talking decades not political terms....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
as an example
http://www.christianpost.com/news/ga...chools-134013/
BUT the idea of moral and Christian values and the involvement of the Church will no doubt result in screams and howls from the left..... but they won't do the work themselves either! They would sooner let the blacks (and whites and Hispanics etc.) die anonymously than teach morality and let Christians teach them it seems! Just look at the Ontario Law boards disallowing lawyers from Trinity Western in violation of the Charter of rights and based solely on them being Christian and following Christian morals about sex. It is a moral choice and they won't accept others following their beliefs!
as long as the inner city kid can look out his window and see gangbangers driving Corvettes and Shelbys while never punching a clock how can we expect more of the youth? go to work everyday and punch a clock for 12 bucks an hour?
EXACTLY. They have no moral compass to do the right, honest thing rather than the wrong, dishonest thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bardern
All a ghetto star lampin' on the corner cares about is that $3500 tax free every week. Not gonna talk him into Mickey D's flippin burgers for min wage.
Yet Mickey D's have no problem staffing their restaurants. I know some kids who work there. Very disciplined and demanding. Not a place to get rich but a great life experience. It's all about the family or rather lack of family and a welfare system that makes it attractive to pump out babies. Until they fix how they come into the world you can forget fixing what they develop into.
True that and I'm not dissing those that work there rather I'm illuminating the difference in morals and ethics of those that sell packets of death and have no discipline.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
The family unit has been under attack for years and it gets worse every year. That and and the usual selfishness and lust do the rest to destroy it.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone who wanted change maybe applied or volunteer at their local police stations. Then they can see what it's like on the other side.
Side note to JoePa ... If your watching the mlb Allstar game those are not the words for Canada's anthem lol
did you not listen to the co founder of black lives matter .. she said that does not make sense that people become cops or help them .. its like her being in a bus and she is stuck in traffic so she should become the bus driver ... the guy from CNN said no you should become the city planner .. she said that does not make sense he said neither did your commentQuote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
My condolences to the family's of those officers
I read about it - http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...es-matter.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
The only thing thatt stops a bad man with a gun is a Remotec Androx Mark V A1 robot with a pound of C4.
Thats sounds sort of familiar....
So does this errant liberal philosophy.... now the liberal media is up in arms, not about the pound of C4, but about the robot.
Gee you'd think their small brain could leap that same giant chasm about gun crime.
So again it really isn't about guns or C4 it's about the human, good or bad, behind the tool.
Still calling BS ?????Quote:
Originally Posted by bardern