Am I being ridiculous, and what would you have done?

Hi all,

So, I was on a canoe trip this week with 6 other guys and one night, while drinking, we had a decent sized fire in a pit on a pretty messy site (when I say messy, I mean covered in pine needles and dry fallen twigs and branches from massive pines all around us).
One of the guys decided it was a good idea to take an old dry pine tree and stick it into the fire (standing up) to create a "Christmas tree". I argued that it was a bad idea after this hot dry summer and we had a pretty massive fight over it, but 6 guys basically kept quiet as we yelled at each other and he eventually made it smaller even though I was completely against it.
I heard the usual taunts of being a party pooper etc. as I stood near the pit as this 3-4 foot standing timber started to burn upwards, and they laughed as I stomped out embers that were landing on the ground.
One guy said "there are 7 guys here and it rained a bit so what are you worried about?".
I had to once again reiterate the fact that it was a dry summer, a little bit of rain means very little, and that a fire can quickly spread faster than 7 guys can move with a single bucket. Especially with family cottages on the lake.

Was I completely conservative and being a stickler? And, how would you have handled this?

Where were you that an open fire ban wasn't in effect?

Find friends who are less likely to behave stupidly when under the influence...that's step one...

Ask these guys when they are sober if they think it was a good idea. If they say "yes" then you should look for friends that aren't morons to camp/fish with. My.02. and thank you for being safe with our out doors.....................Daniel

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Where were you that an open fire ban wasn't in effect?

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Chiniguchi

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Originally Posted by boogaloo

Ask these guys when they are sober if they think it was a good idea. If they say "yes" then you should look for friends that aren't morons to camp/fish with. My.02. and thank you for being safe with our out doors.....................Daniel

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I argued that we could stop by a ministry office and see what they had to say.
I told the guy I have one motto that I live by..."Don't be that guy". And if he wants to be that guy, don't do it in my company.
Still, they think I'm being completely ridiculous on this one.

I would have done the same as you. There' s a reason fire bans get put in place, that's a good example of one.

Whoever invited that guy should have their "bring a friend" privileges revoked.

I would have stood with you MG. lately a lot of friends have been posting pics of back yard fires. Some I ignore because despite bans near everywhere they are quite small. A couple others I've sent private messages to just politely asking if it's really wise. Part of the problem is people just don't realize how little it takes, and how fast grass fires take off. Faster than the pine tree your friend threw on the fire. When they said "well there's been some rain". I'd have pointed at said tree and said. Doesn't seem to make much difference....

If it's continuing post trip. Send them the links to the fires in Algonquin that were burning the week you were away.

Good on you sir. I'd not go out with these guys any more if I were you

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Originally Posted by JBen

I would have stood with you MG. lately a lot of friends have been posting pics of back yard fires. Some I ignore because despite bans near everywhere they are quite small. A couple others I've sent private messages to just politely asking if it's really wise. Part of the problem is people just don't realize how little it takes, and how fast grass fires take off. Faster than the pine tree your friend threw on the fire. When they said "well there's been some rain". I'd have pointed at said tree and said. Doesn't seem to make much difference....

If it's continuing post trip. Send them the links to the fires in Algonquin that were burning the week you were away.

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AND...let them know how much the bill would be to fight a fire, billed to the knucklehead that started it !

Hasn't it rain a lot rain last week, all over Ontarion? There is currently no restriction where you were so maybe a party pooper....
But if it seems right to you , so be it.

Every group has (should have) a 'Debbie Downer'' ..he's the guy, who later in life, will be thanked that none of them criminal records and can get a good job :)

Fire hazards are high to extreme almost everywhere. Many areas have total bans. This should be "no surprise". I'm in Kawartha Lakes which brought down a total burn ban, Aug 8th. Just lifted on the weekend. I haven't had a small campfire since July 15th or so. Walking across the grass in my yard, has been like walking across the crinkly paper used to wrap gift baskets. I don't need a total burn ban, to know large fires, sending embers into the air is a bad idea............

As I said, despite total burn bans last week, some friends had small ones. Some well a polite "is that wise"...
. There's a difference between small campfires and a 6 foot torch. MG didn't try to put a stop to their campfire and pee on that parade,, he drew the line at a small pine tree, which do in fact go up like dry x-mas trees during the holidays.

On any trip like that we typically designate 1 or 2 people who remain sober each night and everyone knows they get final say on any hairbrained ideas. Sober duty rotates so everyone gets a chance to cut loose if they are so inclined.

Prevents other acts of idiocy like going for a swim or taking the canoe out while plastered.

The "warden" also ensures everyone eventually finds there way into the tents at some point.

They seem like a bunch of man-children to me.

Who the hell doesn't appreciate the speed and ease a wildfire can catch during a summer like this?

Townships went nuts reposting their complete firebans IMMEDIATELY after the big rainfalls because the soil and flora absorbed every drop pretty much instantly.

What a bunch of tards. I'd have been pizzed.

You're not being ridiculous MG. You did what you could, good for you. By the way I don't care if its rained for a month and there are no fire restrictions how big a fire do you really need ? Keep it small and sit closer.

The Chiniguchi area is dead smack in the middle of the sulphur kill area from Sudbury's Inco smelter. There's a ton of bedrock in the area so the soils dry out immediately after a rain. Any fire that gets started in these sulphur kill areas will smolder underground long after its 'been put out' so yes, you did the right thing by insisting the campfire be kept small.
Almost any area up there that you travel you'll see signs of old burns.

One of the hardest things in life is disagreeing or even stopping a group of friends or family from being idiots.
You did the right thing even if your group of friend is now smaller in number.

Muskokaguy, I got your back on this one. Maybe you should search YouTube for a few of the videos from the Timmins 9 fire a few years ago. That was a campfire at one point if I remember correctly. There is a video out there about the fire jumping north across Hwy 101 east of Timmins. It crossed four lanes of traffic, with no tinder underneath, in seconds.

no reason for that kind of stupidity. It puts everyone's safety and property in jeopardy.

Having a good time is no excuse to not use your head. Clearly these guys either know nothing about the dangers of forest fires or worst don't care. I wouldn't go out again with that group. I used to be a pretty serious snowmobiler but got tired of idiots who thought snowmobiling and booze went together.

I can't add anything to what has already been said, only to agree. You did the right thing.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

AND...let them know how much the bill would be to fight a fire, billed to the knucklehead that started it !

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I saw on the news that a guy, forget where it was, got his bill for a forest fire he started. $37,000,000.00 please. Pay the lady on your way out.
Here it is https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...lion-bill.html

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Originally Posted by muskokaguy

Hi all,

So, I was on a canoe trip this week with 6 other guys and one night, while drinking, we had a decent sized fire in a pit on a pretty messy site (when I say messy, I mean covered in pine needles and dry fallen twigs and branches from massive pines all around us).
One of the guys decided it was a good idea to take an old dry pine tree and stick it into the fire (standing up) to create a "Christmas tree". I argued that it was a bad idea after this hot dry summer and we had a pretty massive fight over it, but 6 guys basically kept quiet as we yelled at each other and he eventually made it smaller even though I was completely against it.
I heard the usual taunts of being a party pooper etc. as I stood near the pit as this 3-4 foot standing timber started to burn upwards, and they laughed as I stomped out embers that were landing on the ground.
One guy said "there are 7 guys here and it rained a bit so what are you worried about?".
I had to once again reiterate the fact that it was a dry summer, a little bit of rain means very little, and that a fire can quickly spread faster than 7 guys can move with a single bucket. Especially with family cottages on the lake.

Was I completely conservative and being a stickler? And, how would you have handled this?

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I wonder how many people start their legal defense with "Well, you see your honour, we were drinking on the night in question when I thought <insert dumb idea here> was a good idea."

So you were in an area where there was plenty of kindling on the ground (dry pine needles are great kindling) and someone decides to take your controlled burn and add more fuel to it and potentially cause it to become an uncontrolled burn (3-4 ft high dry tree) because he wants to see a "Christmas tree". If the tree had flashed and the thrown embers started to catch, was this guy going to be the one to grab the burning tree and throw it into the lake (assuming there was one handy) so that the entire place doesn't go up?

I don't remember a Christmas tree on fire being a part of any holiday celebrations my family ever had, I don't think this is a normal thing. I would ask this guy if he routinely lights his Christmas tree on fire in his own home or would that be a dangerous thing to do (and if so, what makes it a good idea to do it outdoors in dry conditions). As for the rained a bit comment, that is just denial about how little rain we have received this year.

You did the right thing with stomping embers out. Making this campfire into a signal fire necessitated a more stringent course of safety. How many bad things could be avoided if people had a little bit of foresight? While your group thinks those embers wouldn't have caught anything on fire, you ensured that didn't happen (even camping, I stomp out embers which have jumped the fire pit and that wasn't at ground zero for pine needles and a fire ban wasn't in effect).

As for the group, they all think you over-reacted and from how you told the story, they might not "let you live it down" which means you may face having to relive this event every time the group gets together. I hope you don't but it sounds like these guys have a "frat-boy" mentality when drinking.

Dyth

Sounds somewhat like fundamental attribution error where a person or persons think what they do is ok in the moment because of their "need" or "they can handle it/justify it" yet they would see the error and potential danger in someone else doing the same thing.

Sort of like the thought that I need to exceed the speed limit and it's ok because I'm in a hurry yet I am against anyone else speeding because they'd be dangerous doing it or couldn't control the vehicle at excess speeds.

Or the ever present "Herd Mentality" among the guys with you being the exception.

Kudos for the effort to do the correct thing under difficult social conditions. I'd consider separating myself from him/them as that behavior isn't likely to stop and will become less and less tolerable to you each time it surfaces.

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Originally Posted by muskokaguy

Hi all,

So, I was on a canoe trip this week with 6 other guys and one night, while drinking, we had a decent sized fire in a pit on a pretty messy site (when I say messy, I mean covered in pine needles and dry fallen twigs and branches from massive pines all around us).
One of the guys decided it was a good idea to take an old dry pine tree and stick it into the fire (standing up) to create a "Christmas tree". I argued that it was a bad idea after this hot dry summer and we had a pretty massive fight over it, but 6 guys basically kept quiet as we yelled at each other and he eventually made it smaller even though I was completely against it.
I heard the usual taunts of being a party pooper etc. as I stood near the pit as this 3-4 foot standing timber started to burn upwards, and they laughed as I stomped out embers that were landing on the ground.
One guy said "there are 7 guys here and it rained a bit so what are you worried about?".
I had to once again reiterate the fact that it was a dry summer, a little bit of rain means very little, and that a fire can quickly spread faster than 7 guys can move with a single bucket. Especially with family cottages on the lake.

Was I completely conservative and being a stickler? And, how would you have handled this?

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So,a campfire with an idiot throwing a dead full-size tree into just for shytes and giggles in the middle of a fire ground full of pine needles and all types of fuel and you're wondering if you did the right thing? You and your buddies may as well have been standing in a gas dump with leaky tanks. Did you notice how quickly that tree went up? It was blind shyte house luck the whole thing didn't go with you guys in it. I'd say these guys owe you at least a big box of beer for saving their stupid a**es. Really,you're lucky it didn't go POOF!

Good on you, your gut was telling to you to do it. that`s a good thing, you never know, christmas tree guy may have added more than one tree to the fire if you were not there.
Here`s what I would threaten do next year because you know they`re going to remember this episode. What they won`t remember is all of the ants that got into the food that you had stored outside. So next year you`re going to put all the food in the tent with christmas tree guy. What could go wrong!!!!!

Yep. Good on ya. I can't even look at the stories on Algonquin right now. It's heartbreaking.

Why is it that some people have to get drunk to enjoy life - there are so many things to enjoy - find some friends who can enjoy the great outdoors without getting hammered -

Being a volunteer firefighter I can tell you the embers from that tree and any wind could potentially travel miles and if it was that dry can still start a grass fire that would be well beyond those guys control....not to mention if you are the cause you good get the bill for the trucks that respond and for something like that your lookin at about 4 firetrucks at roughly 450.00 an hour per truck.

Been there after a few beers and things get a little crazier and I don't know the situation of the area you were in.....but sounds like its prob a good thing you were there and of level mind to babysit the rest of the crew.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

The Chiniguchi area is dead smack in the middle of the sulphur kill area from Sudbury's Inco smelter. There's a ton of bedrock in the area so the soils dry out immediately after a rain. Any fire that gets started in these sulphur kill areas will smolder underground long after its 'been put out' so yes, you did the right thing by insisting the campfire be kept small.
Almost any area up there that you travel you'll see signs of old burns.

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Well said sawbill.

Ah men and alcohol = many interesting scenarios. :)

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Originally Posted by Sharon

Ah men and alcohol = many interesting scenarios. :)

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Youbetcha....as with women and alcohol. I could elaborate,but,a gentleman and a man of honor will never kiss and tell. LOL

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Youbetcha....as with women and alcohol. I could elaborate,but,a gentleman and a man of honor will never kiss and tell. LOL

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X10 on that trimmer21 !

I'm on your side

Attachment 33248
One of the dumbest decisions I have ever seen a volunteer fire department chief make.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZ5qzbze9Q

It can happen quickly. At around the 7 minute mark, the sparks jump the highway and start a new fire.

no need for a raging fire in any camp, piss on ur friends, not n out of control fire, good choice u made my friend..... I salute u

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Youbetcha....as with women and alcohol. I could elaborate,but,a gentleman and a man of honor will never kiss and tell. LOL

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LOL touche'

My brother died fighting a forest fire. So no, it's not "no big deal". Fire ban or not, folks need to burn responsibly. It might just be a camp fire to you, but an out of control camp fire has real consequences. You did right.

BTW, CFFM service is Sept 11, 10:30am in Ottawa.

Land Stewards we hunters are...did the right and will serve as warning for next time. Your ethics are clear to me.

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

Attachment 33248
One of the dumbest decisions I have ever seen a volunteer fire department chief make.

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My uncle told me once, if people just had a small fire in the rocks on the side of the lake you would never get a campfire started forest fire but us idiotic city people need a fire to wake up the gods.

They should ban certain people from the parks, fire bans only work if idiots are not around.

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Originally Posted by Fox

My uncle told me once, if people just had a small fire in the rocks on the side of the lake you would never get a campfire started forest fire but us idiotic city people need a fire to wake up the gods.

They should ban certain people from the parks, fire bans only work if idiots are not around.

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Funny you mention that. A First Nations friend of mine commented once that "You white guys make a campfire so high that nobody can get close enough to get warm".

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Funny you mention that. A First Nations friend of mine commented once that "You white guys make a campfire so high that nobody can get close enough to get warm".

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Remember the scene from Dances with Wolves, where the guy burns all the garbage and the natives notice it from many miles away, pretty much what whitey is all about, ha ha.

When my older brother was working for the Feds in Yellowknife (in a very upper management position) his assertion was that almost all the tundra and forest fires started there were cooking fires set and then abandoned without extinguishing by the indigenous peoples--not the white guys.

When conditions are wrong ( right) even small fires are a risk. All it takes is 1 small ember.

While cleaning up the back yard after my house warming party July 23rd, I came across a nice scorch mark ( about a foot long) in the grass. I was fortunate. someone else the day before wasn't as fortunate.

How many embers, or how big an ember does it take?
http://m.mykawartha.com/news-story/6...ion-in-lindsay.

As mentioned, I didn't need an official "fire ban", to know, any size was a bad idea. Hadn't had one since just after we moved in. It was early Aug before the township decided people were just too self centred, and had to announce one.

"small campfires" are in theory easier to douse quickly, nor does the wood really snap, crackle and pop. But all it takes is one wee one. And faster than you say oh ship, a grass fire can take off.